Opinions on this foot please? I'm rubbish!

Urgh fair play for paying enough attention and stopping it now. I wouldn’t be having any more to do with that farrier, I don’t expect it will take too long for them to improve again so I’d have them off and go round the yard looking at everyone else’s hooves to see which one to use next.
 
I have tried hoof boots before and had no end of problems with them, getting ones that fit well in the first place, getting them to stay on especially for any faster work or any ground that might have 1cm of mud or more, them rubbing especially when they get wet in the long grass or a bit of mud, Dex being young also can have legs in all directions and/or trip when he's tired and sometimes even pulls turnout boots off so he'd have a boot off in two seconds flat. I realise this may read conversely with the 'I'll do whats best for him' but I tried with the last one for a year to make hoof boots work and loathed every second of it and never succeeded, spent £1000 on useless shoes and visits from fitters.
what boots have you tried?
I have had boots stay on when they have been knee deep in bog, through very rocky rivers, at any speed and on young horses. However as with everything there are boots and boots :D
 
what boots have you tried?
I have had boots stay on when they have been knee deep in bog, through very rocky rivers, at any speed and on young horses. However as with everything there are boots and boots :D
Indeed, I have done the same. I did TREC for years with my old boy in a set of Cavallos on the front and Renegade Vipers on the back - everything from knee deep sucking mud to clambering up rock tors on Dartmoor. Only ever had him kick a boot off twice, once when being "over-enthusiastic" up a steep rocky track and once when he slid/stumbled down a bank. That's in over 10 years. It's a matter of finding the right boot - have you spoken to Hoof Boutique or Saddlery Shop OP?
 
The Hoof Boot Shop has people who visit you with a huge range of shells for different makes, styles and fits, and who will find the best ones. A bit like taking your child to a Clarke Shoe shop before start of term and end up surrounded by shoe boxes and the 2 pairs to choose from that fit (neither of which are the ones your little darling have their eye on!)
 
That was the first round of shoeing freshly shod... in the interests of education, what is it you don't like about it?
It's showing a toe dubbed right back, essentially all of the weight bearing wall has been removed and the shoe is set back on the sole rather than the walls of the hoof. It's also showing a more acute angle at the heel, which is starting to show signs of underrunning already.
 
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It's showing a toe dubbed right back, essentially all of the weight bearing wall has been removed and the shoe is set back on the sole rather than the walls of the hoof. It's also showing a more acute angle at the heel, which is starting to show signs of underrunning already.
Right, makes sense - thank you for explaining!

what boots have you tried?
I have had boots stay on when they have been knee deep in bog, through very rocky rivers, at any speed and on young horses. However as with everything there are boots and boots :D
I tried cavallos, scoot boots, vipers, Flex boots, Evo Boots and they all did the same thing. Fell off, rubbed or were so hideous to get on and off and keep clean/dry that it wasn't worth the attempt and I lost motivation to ride before I'd started.

The Hoof Boot Shop has people who visit you with a huge range of shells for different makes, styles and fits, and who will find the best ones. A bit like taking your child to a Clarke Shoe shop before start of term and end up surrounded by shoe boxes and the 2 pairs to choose from that fit (neither of which are the ones your little darling have their eye on!)
Perhaps I need to suck eggs and give this a try. Nothing ventured nothing gained I suppose, and that was with the last horse, not with Dex so things may have come on a lot since then.

Urgh fair play for paying enough attention and stopping it now. I wouldn’t be having any more to do with that farrier, I don’t expect it will take too long for them to improve again so I’d have them off and go round the yard looking at everyone else’s hooves to see which one to use next.
Should be lots of good farriers in West Sussex.
I think I have spotted a set of hooves I like so I have put an enquiry out to see if his books are open, the difficulty is that there is no lack of good farriers, but they are all either mad busy with closed books or you don't know who is good until you have tried them, and I can't afford another two cycles of cr@p farriery before I have a lame horse.

Perhaps when he was pulling boots off it was his body saying it was struggling with strength and or balance? Personally I would remove shoes and start really slowly with gradual work in boots. If he can’t cope then try a better farrier in the future. You’ve done such a great job with him and identified an issue so full marks to you. No criticism, just an old bat trying to help.
Not taken as such at all, Dex hasn't ever worn hoof boots, my experience was with the last horse I had.

I would just look at it as he is only just 4 so this is a great time to give him a break. My guys aren’t even being backed til they are 5 (my preference). I don’t think it will harm his confidence as you have given him a fantastic start, you can continue to work on groundwork etc which will only benefit him, and you give his growth plates a little more time to fuse before you crack on with more ridden work. I think it’s a win win situation.
I would always give a 4 year old horse a break from work as his still so young and his body has still not formed properly.
I completely hear what you are both saying and do agree but he does always have a week out of every month off, and actually was only backed in Feb, then was ridden for a month and had a 2.5 month break April to mid June as I was without a saddle, so has actually only been 'in work' a total of 3.5 months.
It may seem like I do a lot as I have posted on here about going to the beach and doing a sponsored ride, but he has probably been schooled less than 20 times ever, and other than that it was walk hacking only until 1.5 months ago where I'd have the odd short trot/canter here and there and started doing slightly longer hacks of between 3-7 miles once a week or fortnight. I just have been lucky enough to have a couple of trips out with him as he's been so amicable.

That being said, I don't think I really have a choice here but to whip off his shoes and start again, I just need to wait to hear back from another farrier before I can start that process.
 
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a good farrier to be able to correct the feet while shod.

You might have to be on a 4-5week shoeing cycle and it might take a few goes but I don't think it can only be achieved barefoot.

Find a good farrier ASAP and have a chat to them. Before you make any big descions. Conversation with your old farrier maybe difficult but it's in Dex's interest.

While everything is adjusting back, you may want to lighten his work load to protect his legs.
 
Try Hoof Armour too. I now use it instead of boots most of the time.
I've not heard of this before, I'll go and have a google.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a good farrier to be able to correct the feet while shod.

You might have to be on a 4-5week shoeing cycle and it might take a few goes but I don't think it can only be achieved barefoot.

Find a good farrier ASAP and have a chat to them. Before you make any big descions. Conversation with your old farrier maybe difficult but it's in Dex's interest.

While everything is adjusting back, you may want to lighten his work load to protect his legs.
Thank you, I have put the feelers out and won't make any decisions until someone proper has had a look. He's just had his routine week off, so I will keep it low level if any until someone has come out.
 
I tried cavallos, scoot boots, vipers, Flex boots, Evo Boots and they all did the same thing. Fell off, rubbed or were so hideous to get on and off and keep clean/dry that it wasn't worth the attempt and I lost motivation to ride before I'd started.
I have Explorer magic. I alternate in winter hosing and drip drying on bridle hooks high in stable and taking home and washing in bath with shower.

Never moved or lost one. Or rubbed. But some horses have good feet shapes for performance hoof boots and some don’t.
 
A bit off piste - but with all the law and fuss made about 'only a farrier can shoe a horse' where is the body to complain to when such an unsatisfactory job has been done? In my humble opinion, the farrier should be recalled for further training and have it spelled out in no uncertain terms that the hooves are unacceptable in their current state.
 
Sorry if my previous post seems a bit abrupt, wrote while burning dinner. Clearly shouldn't try and multi task.
Not at all, no apology needed! :)

Hoof boots work well for horses with pretty good feet. Trickier with odd shaped feet.

I love explora magic hoof boots
Thank you, I'll have a Google.

A bit off piste - but with all the law and fuss made about 'only a farrier can shoe a horse' where is the body to complain to when such an unsatisfactory job has been done? In my humble opinion, the farrier should be recalled for further training and have it spelled out in no uncertain terms that the hooves are unacceptable in their current state.
Well would you believe it, he shoes for a local 4* eventer and a huge local, very well known/regarded eventing stud near me - so they must be happy with his work, or they get a different quality of service
 
A bit off piste - but with all the law and fuss made about 'only a farrier can shoe a horse' where is the body to complain to when such an unsatisfactory job has been done? In my humble opinion, the farrier should be recalled for further training and have it spelled out in no uncertain terms that the hooves are unacceptable in their current state.

https://www.farrier-reg.gov.uk

Good luck with that.
 
It is technically possible to complain about a farrier.


I looked into doing this after my mare came back off loan with horrific foot balance. In practice, the complaint is forwarded to a local farrier rep. In my case, the local rep was the offending farrier 😳. He could talk the talk and do a decent job if he bothered to.

It ended up impossible to proceed, as other farriers would not stand up to report the issues to the local rep, it wasn’t worth the hassle to them.
 
I have Explorer magic. I alternate in winter hosing and drip drying on bridle hooks high in stable and taking home and washing in bath with shower.

Never moved or lost one. Or rubbed. But some horses have good feet shapes for performance hoof boots and some don’t.
I have Explora Magic for BH on his fronts. Last year, he did a hunt ride in them. Variable ground including jumping a ditch into a proper bog. They stuck on and didn't rub. They are good in all terrain.

I found Flex boots good on the roads and gravel but lethal on mud or grass. They also didn't rub.

Cavallos and Easy boot did rub.

Mine is a big Irish unit too.
 
Well would you believe it, he shoes for a local 4* eventer and a huge local, very well known/regarded eventing stud near me - so they must be happy with his work, or they get a different quality of service
my answer to that would be "so what" it doesn't mean anything. All that matters to many is that, he answers the phone/text, he turns up at short notice, attaches a set of shoes that stay on and comes back quickly when they fall off just before an event.

Have the eventer and stud critically appraised his work? ie where the heels are, are the feet contracted, bull nose etc etc and many more etc's.

The question is different as to whether the job is satisfactory if you ask many shod owners or a barefoot. To a barefoot one the trim must be correct as those are the feet the horse is landing on. Ask a shod one and the answer is often different.

As for the quality of the farrier's work then the majority will think their work is good because to their mind they have done a good job.
They are all individuals. I think they are a bit like car drivers. You do your driving test and learn the correct way then you go off and actually drive for real. Re rest the driver 5 years later and what they do is very different to what they were taught. Give them further training but it doesn't mean they will do it correctly afterwards.
Most farriers are simply self employed individuals with no one to check their work.
 
If you want to go barefoot, boots have certainly moved on from even just a few years ago. We have very stony tracks mixed with grass/natural tracks/fields and my boots certainly cope even crossing water but it can be very individual. I've always measured up and used a boot fitting service which I think has helped too, rather than just trying what I think mighy work. I appreciate putting boots on can be slightly more time consuming than just tacking up and going though.

I can certainly recommend two very good barefoot trimmers that cover West Sussex but that is obviously only helpful if you want to go and stay barefoot! Feel free to PM if you want their details.
 
my answer to that would be "so what" it doesn't mean anything. All that matters to many is that, he answers the phone/text, he turns up at short notice, attaches a set of shoes that stay on and comes back quickly when they fall off just before an event.

100% this. I see terrible feet all over the place, with some very professional/knowledgeable owners, but they don't know a vast amount about feet and the implications of poor feet, they don't connect the dots and in part because we see poor feet and poor posture everywhere. And yes, they use different factors to assess whether, for them, a farrier is any good.
 
my answer to that would be "so what" it doesn't mean anything. All that matters to many is that, he answers the phone/text, he turns up at short notice, attaches a set of shoes that stay on and comes back quickly when they fall off just before an event.

Have the eventer and stud critically appraised his work? ie where the heels are, are the feet contracted, bull nose etc etc and many more etc's.
100% this. I see terrible feet all over the place, with some very professional/knowledgeable owners, but they don't know a vast amount about feet and the implications of poor feet, they don't connect the dots and in part because we see poor feet and poor posture everywhere. And yes, they use different factors to assess whether, for them, a farrier is any good.

I absolutely agree, the quality of the work I have received is the quality of the work I have received, and it's crap.. but I am surprised that a stud selling 100 or so horses a year, fairly frequently in excess of £50k, would use anyone less than the best around, or someone with top performance horses doing a hard job also worth a lot of money one assumes...
 
I absolutely agree, the quality of the work I have received is the quality of the work I have received, and it's crap.. but I am surprised that a stud selling 100 or so horses a year, fairly frequently in excess of £50k, would use anyone less than the best around, or someone with top performance horses doing a hard job also worth a lot of money one assumes...

Have you seen the feet of international GP dressage horses (often easier to see them in photos than with jumpers/eventers)? People don't put two and two together, those regular hock injections are routine and a welfare issue 🤦‍♀️....then a stud only shoes most of their horses for a few weeks, there's a lot less harm can be done that way.
 
I absolutely agree, the quality of the work I have received is the quality of the work I have received, and it's crap.. but I am surprised that a stud selling 100 or so horses a year, fairly frequently in excess of £50k, would use anyone less than the best around, or someone with top performance horses doing a hard job also worth a lot of money one assumes...
the "barefoot taliban" on here spend a lot of time correcting feet. The feet many are correcting are the ones that have been shod either for a long time or badly shod. We expect those horses to go on and work, possibly booted, but to have a good and long working life left.

The top performance horses are there to perform. To win. Once they stop winning that is it. As long as their poorly shod feet can carry on long enough there is no problem. Once they stop winning they become worth a lot less. Or their stance, due to poor shoeing becomes poor and they get leg problems, tendon problems, other structural problems.

I expect the stud puts on their sale literature the parentage, what the parents have achieved, what the youngster can therefore be expected to achieve. Not sure the advert has a set of foot pics at the top of it. The person buying the youngster who is probably unshod simply assumes it will pass the vet and their own excellent farrier will do a good job. They probably don't look further than the fact he has shod the horse.

Sorry to be so cynical. You can make feet look pretty (shod or not) but that doesn't mean they are good.
 
A bit off piste - but with all the law and fuss made about 'only a farrier can shoe a horse' where is the body to complain to when such an unsatisfactory job has been done? In my humble opinion, the farrier should be recalled for further training and have it spelled out in no uncertain terms that the hooves are unacceptable in their current state.
When was the last time a farrier was disciplined or struck off for poor Farriery? I know some have been for cruelty but I don’t think they even get ‘spoken to’ about poor shoeing.
 
I absolutely agree, the quality of the work I have received is the quality of the work I have received, and it's crap.. but I am surprised that a stud selling 100 or so horses a year, fairly frequently in excess of £50k, would use anyone less than the best around, or someone with top performance horses doing a hard job also worth a lot of money one assumes...
I think it comes back to people handing over responsibility to, and trusting, professionals. For instance - we all use equine dentists and trust they know what they are doing. So we don't bother much about what's going on in our horse's mouths until we see an obvious issue, beyond 6 monthly or yearly checks. We are absolutely fulfilling our duty as good owners. Speaking for myself I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how many teeth there should be, and I rarely or never look in my horses' mouths between dentist visits.
I think a LOT of owners are like this with hooves, and beyond picking them out and paying the farrier every 6 weeks or so they don't pay them much attention until an obvious problem shows up. And that should be absolutely fine, except that lots of the time it isn't, sadly.
 
I think it comes back to people handing over responsibility to, and trusting, professionals. For instance - we all use equine dentists and trust they know what they are doing. So we don't bother much about what's going on in our horse's mouths until we see an obvious issue, beyond 6 monthly or yearly checks. We are absolutely fulfilling our duty as good owners. Speaking for myself I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how many teeth there should be, and I rarely or never look in my horses' mouths between dentist visits.
I think a LOT of owners are like this with hooves, and beyond picking them out and paying the farrier every 6 weeks or so they don't pay them much attention until an obvious problem shows up. And that should be absolutely fine, except that lots of the time it isn't, sadly.

I gently disagree, especially with feet, and saddles, where you can easily do visual checks. Same as selecting a trainer, ultimately the buck stops with the owner, and the owner is the only one that sees the horse every day/week so should be keeping on top of changes, especially where those changes are for the worse. As owners we should know the basics of a good foot, a well fitting saddle (certainly how your own saddle should sit when correct) and good training but it does mean a lot of learning in some cases, and perhaps even more "un-learning". With your example of teeth I suppose we should understand some of the connections to the things we CAN monitor - way of going, symmetry, changes in the feet etc which may result from poo dentistry, as well any obvious issues like quidding.
 
my answer to that would be "so what" it doesn't mean anything. All that matters to many is that, he answers the phone/text, he turns up at short notice, attaches a set of shoes that stay on and comes back quickly when they fall off just before an event.

Have the eventer and stud critically appraised his work? ie where the heels are, are the feet contracted, bull nose etc etc and many more etc's.

The question is different as to whether the job is satisfactory if you ask many shod owners or a barefoot. To a barefoot one the trim must be correct as those are the feet the horse is landing on. Ask a shod one and the answer is often different.

As for the quality of the farrier's work then the majority will think their work is good because to their mind they have done a good job.
They are all individuals. I think they are a bit like car drivers. You do your driving test and learn the correct way then you go off and actually drive for real. Re rest the driver 5 years later and what they do is very different to what they were taught. Give them further training but it doesn't mean they will do it correctly afterwards.
Most farriers are simply self employed individuals with no one to check their work.
And sometime farriers do treat different customers differently. Especially one horse owners that dont have the knowledge or skill to hold them to account.

I had a horse that was struggling with feet with poor foot balance.

Same farrier did an amazing job with my trainer's top horse.

When I got vet involved in my horse's feet he admitted there was a fair bit of room for improvement.

He also said my current farrier was capable of better, did lots of remedial work in conjunction with vet, and could be spoken too and could fix it.

I changed farriers, I was furious. If you know better you do better. Not knowing is one thing, not bothering is quite another.

I was a good client, and whilst an amateur, and pretty novice at feet balance (was 14 years ago, I know a bit more now), and not able to hold him to account each visit.

My horse and I deserved better. I'd trusted farrier, been there for visits, made him coffee, paid on the day, presented clean horse. Taken his advice on type of shoe, frequency of trim etc.
 
And sometime farriers do treat different customers differently. Especially one horse owners that dont have the knowledge or skill to hold them to account.

I had a horse that was struggling with feet with poor foot balance.

Same farrier did an amazing job with my trainer's top horse.

When I got vet involved in my horse's feet he admitted there was a fair bit of room for improvement.

He also said my current farrier was capable of better, did lots of remedial work in conjunction with vet, and could be spoken too and could fix it.

I changed farriers, I was furious. If you know better you do better. Not knowing is one thing, not bothering is quite another.

I was a good client, and whilst an amateur, and pretty novice at feet balance (was 14 years ago, I know a bit more now), and not able to hold him to account each visit.

My horse and I deserved better. I'd trusted farrier, been there for visits, made him coffee, paid on the day, presented clean horse. Taken his advice on type of shoe, frequency of trim etc.
That is pretty awful, that he just didn't bother with your boy even though he was perfectly capable.
 
The farrier who fecked up my horse’s feet when she was out on loan was a fancy pants training farrier who once got the best shod horse award at Badminton Horse Trials.

When I asked the more low key but much better farrier who restored her foot balance whether fancy pants farrier was capable of good farriery, he replied ‘He can be’ 🙄. So while he can do a decent job, he doesn’t always bother to.
 
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