Our Opening meet cut short by Sabs

[EAST KENT]

So JM,in your deluded old(?) mind WW11 was actually about HUNTING!!!!!!
I think you need to TALK and LISTEN to some Jewish people and get real.The persecution started way before that war,and in fact our dear Government turned a blind eye to the "Jewish problem" aided and abetted by Sir Antony Eden...our Government knew full well what was going on in those Death Camps..shame on them.
WW11 about foxhunting

 

[Judgemental]

JM I too don't like the sans and the way they deal with things, they are mainly just wanting to cause trouble!! But I do think it was unfair in one off your posts to put that most antis and sabs are drug crazed, some may be but there is also alot off antis who are peaceful and just want to get there point across, to put that most of them are on drugs is like them saying that we are all upper class toffs with lots of money, neither off which is true, and it doesn't help either side!!

Clearly you have never been on the sharp end of a real saboteurs - you are being throughly wet!

Furthermore unless it has escaped your attention, this is a hunting forum and hunting as we knew it was banned in 2004 - whose side are you on?

 

[Addicted to Hunting]

The thing is that most sabs do want to cause trouble and it shows by doing things like are mentioned above, that is not for the sake of animal welfare! I can rember seeing them kick hounds when I was younger whilst shouting at our huntsman that he was cruel?! And yes alot will target children, I think that it is cos they hope that they/parents will be scared enough not too come out again, pathetic really tho!!

I have no problem with Antis who do care and are peaceful though they are entailed to there view!

 

[Judgemental]

I have no problem with Antis who do care and are peaceful though they are entailed to there view!

Thin end of wedge springs to mind - so it was alright for Blair and his mob to ban hunting peacefully?

There are only two sides to this - frankly you astonish me, that you can write such drivel on this particular forum and thread.

 

[EAST KENT]

Sabotage,as it says "to sabotage" or destroy something. Not much would be sabotaged by standing around with placards ..would it? It`s a bit like ALF, don`t join unless you want a bit of action.Simplez.

 

[Charem]

Thin end of wedge springs to mind - so it was alright for Blair and his mob to ban hunting peacefully?

There are only two sides to this - frankly you astonish me, that you can write such drivel on this particular forum and thread.

No it was not alright for Blair to ban hunting, imo I dont think he did it for fox welfare...however, and this is comming from someone who once was anti, I too have no problem with peaceful demonstrations against hunting. Everyone is entitled to speak what they believe and if they believe fox hunting is cruel, like I once did, then why should they not speak up? As long as it's not hurting anybody/anything then imo there's no problem.

 

[Addicted to Hunting]

No I don't think that it should off been banned, all I was tryin to say is that it is unfair to say that most antis and sabs are drug crazed, there is a difference between them, sorry that you have taken my posts the wrong way! But believe me I love hunting and think the hunting act should be repealed, and yes I may be younger that you and not seen as much but remember that it is the younger generation which is Huntings future, don't upset the wrong people!

 

[magicgirl]

I am very pro hunting and can not stand what the sabs, particularly the hardcore, get up to. I do however feel differently about the anti hunt people who genuienly care about animal welfare. They do have a right to an opinion as do I. I have met several out hunting who may be holding banners but have always been polite and certainly not out to cause damage. I have always made a point of speaking politely to them and have had many interesting exchanges of views.

 

[Sanolly]

Which is why she said 'Anti's' and not 'Sabs'... And I happen to agree with her, half my family don't agree with Hunting, however they agree that I am entitled to my view (pro) and I know they are anti hunt, we are able to sit and debate both sides like rational, mature adults. There are (admittedly few and far between these days) peaceful Antis, however since the Ban in 2004 things have got out of hand. Bear in mind though that pre-ban I was a teenager with enough other things to be worrying about so don't really know anything about what things were like.

IMO the Hunting Act is a very dangerous piece of legislation, because it is practically unenforceable by the Police it has left the door wide open for the vigilante and "animal rights"* protesters who quite frankly will use any way they can think of to cause trouble. I have heard the stories about people being pulled of horses, child being verbally abused, citronella being sprayed at hounds etc. I personally haven't seen any of this.

The way I see it even if the Hunting Act is repealed things won't improve, they might even get worse as a lot of people will be quite peeved that the Act is abolished. I think the hunts need to ask their foot followers for help, ask them to record the behaviour of the Anti's/Sab's, and use that against them with the Police. I haven't heard of any anti's/sab's being pulled up on animal cruelty/abuse/threatening behaviour/assault/anything else you can think of, charges, IMO the hunts need to be a be more proactive against them. As long as they are hunting within the law they are well within their rights to defend themselves and their field.

*yes I know they are not really animal rights activists hence the ""

 

[MerrySherryRider]

I am very pro hunting and can not stand what the sabs, particularly the hardcore, get up to. I do however feel differently about the anti hunt people who genuienly care about animal welfare. They do have a right to an opinion as do I. I have met several out hunting who may be holding banners but have always been polite and certainly not out to cause damage. I have always made a point of speaking politely to them and have had many interesting exchanges of views.

What a breath of fresh air. You are an ambassador for the hunt and your approach is more likely to have an effect on objectors than the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade who only polarise and inflame opinions.

 

[Judgemental]

So JM,in your deluded old(?) mind WW11 was actually about HUNTING!!!!!!
I think you need to TALK and LISTEN to some Jewish people and get real.The persecution started way before that war,and in fact our dear Government turned a blind eye to the "Jewish problem" aided and abetted by Sir Antony Eden...our Government knew full well what was going on in those Death Camps..shame on them.
WW11 about foxhunting

I said "don't forget, that many men and women went to war in WWII because of Hitler's actions concerning hunting, not because he invaded Poland."

There are many old hunting men still alive - just - who will tell one that they were preprared to fight because of the hunting ban in Germany and the way it was implimented.

I did not say we this nation (if that what you are implying) went to war because of Nazi Germany's banning of hunting.

I was saying that many people justified their actions in their own minds because of the ban, I know them and could name them!

On the subject of the Jews. What Anthony Eden's government knew or did not know is irrelevant.

The point I made was the it was Hitler's police, in 1934 later called the Gestapo who implimented the hunting ban.

Generally they came from Bavaria because Hitler considered them to have his 'interests' at heart. The hunting ban was implimented in July 1934 and WWII started in October 1939 between those dates, yes it is probable that Jewish people were rounded up etc and were sent to the concentration camps - yes they were before WWII actually started - but they were not deported to the camps by the military.

But the point was it was the same people who implimented the hunting ban in 1934 that were spearheading the Jewish situation. The so called 'final solution'.

Perhaps I need to be crystal clear as to my argument.

Jewish people had their freedoms and lives taken by the Nazis.

Our freedom to hunt was taken by Tony Blair and his henchmen in the Labour Party!

Oh and whilst I am on this subject - who invaded the Sudaten Land and Poland - soverign sates without a legal madate i.e. illegally in 1939, Adolf Hitler - the man who banned hunting.

Who invaded Iraq a soverign state without a legal mandate i.e. illegally in 2002 (is that the correct date?). Tony Blair - the man who banned hunting here.

The only two people to have banned hunting - ever!

Antis Sabs, call them what you will, they are the dregs of society.

 

[tootsietoo]

JM - "There are only two sides to this"

I think the hunting issue is one of the least black and white, most complex issues there is!

And if there were fewer people with opinions like yours, on both sides, we might not be in the mess that we're in.

 

[Judgemental]

JM - "There are only two sides to this"

I think the hunting issue is one of the least black and white, most complex issues there is!

And if there were fewer people with opinions like yours, on both sides, we might not be in the mess that we're in.

Rubbish. I suggest Tootsietoo you push off to another forum if you don't support hunting as we knew it before our freedom was taken!

We are not in a mess - the only mess is the Hunting Act 2004

Seemingly the word FREEDOM does not resonate with the younger elements because they have been brainwashed by twleve years of Labour rule.

To hell with whether one is killing a fox or two, or the way they are killed or not, as the case may be, it is the FREEDOM to do so or not, as the case may be - not to have that right and freedom interfered with.

That is the issue and there are no two sides to the issue and it is completely black and white - FREEDOM

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Gosh this thread is getting interesting!!! "Judgemental", you raise some very interesting points and put forward a compelling case ..... I'd certainly never thought to link the two politicians who "banned" hunting, i.e. Adolf Hitler and Tony Blair!! with the "final solution", invasion of another country etc, but yes, I do believe there is a very real link between the two.

I think the point you make very clearly and succinctly is that if one particular leader, be it Hitler, Blair, etc etc, thinks they have a god-given mandate if you like, to just go ahead and in spite of public opionion, enforce their will on the people, then they have shown a total disregard for humanity in general. End result: holocaust/carnage/Iraq/human rights abuses.

I know some friends went up to London for the Countryside March to express support for hunting; and they said that basically the police took off their epaulettes so they couldn't be identified and just went in to what was basically a peaceful demo, with everything they had, batons the lot. If this had happened at any other demo, be it Anti-Nuke, Anti-War or whatever, there would have quite rightly been a public outcry, but because hunting and the countryside way of life was the issue, and hunting people were all seen as toffs and yuppies playing in the countryside, nothing was done.

And what about bullfighting? (sorry to throw another spanner in the works!!!); because of European cultural subsidies etc WE are helping to finance this, which I think is the most barbaric so-called sport that one could think of. But Brits quite happily trundle off to Spain on holiday and go to see a bullfight - as someone who supports "proper" hunting I find the whole thing totally barbaric.

So why not an outcry over bullfighting? Why pick on those of us who have for many years been responsible for pest-control in the countryside through natural selection, i.e. foxhunting? I just don't understand priorities sometimes.

 

[tootsietoo]

JM you don't make it very easy for people to have a discussion with you. And this is a discussion forum, after all! You aren't interested in listening - a bit like a lot of the politicians who banned us.

 

[The Dunner]

I back judgemental 100%.He speaks the truth!!!!!!

 

[DragonSlayer]

JM you don't make it very easy for people to have a discussion with you. And this is a discussion forum, after all! You aren't interested in listening - a bit like a lot of the politicians who banned us.

JM has a talent. And THAT is being able to debate. I see clearly what he is saying. Shame others don't either.

 

[EAST KENT]

Personally I find the invented reason for WW11 being "becase Hitler banned hunting"both abhorrent and upsetting.

How ANYONE could be so deluded certainly escapes me.

DISGUSTED

 

[DragonSlayer]

Personally I find the invented reason for WW11 being "becase Hitler banned hunting"both abhorrent and upsetting.

How ANYONE could be so deluded certainly escapes me.

DISGUSTED

~Sigh~

You need to read it again.

It was not said that THAT was the reason.

It was merely used to show that people went to war for different reasons.

 

[tootsietoo]

Thing is, I am completely with you on the freedom argument. Totally. But to mix it all up with stuff about Hitler and the holcaust and Iraq is (as East Kent said) pretty horrible and I find it hard to appear to be on the same side as you!

 

[PaddyMonty]

Rubbish. I suggest Tootsietoo you push off to another forum if you don't support hunting as we knew it before our freedom was taken!

We are not in a mess - the only mess is the Hunting Act 2004

Seemingly the word FREEDOM does not resonate with the younger elements because they have been brainwashed by twleve years of Labour rule.

To hell with whether one is killing a fox or two, or the way they are killed or not, as the case may be, it is the FREEDOM to do so or not, as the case may be - not to have that right and freedom interfered with.

That is the issue and there are no two sides to the issue and it is completely black and white - FREEDOM

JM - I see little difference between your attidtude and that of the sabs you so dispise. I firmly believe given your responses on this thread that you would indeed BE a sab if you held an opposing view to hunting.

I too am anti-hunting (guess that makes me scum). However, I'm hardly young and raised on Blair mis-information as it were. I hunted for many years during the 60's with the Eridge both mounted and working terriers, was blooded at 6 etc. So it would seem reasonable to assume I do know something about hunting yet now choose not to support it. However, I also respect your right to engage in hunting.

Now if the powers that be would allow hunting of the narrow minded arrorgant yobs (scum already been taken) on both sides of the debate I would get my horse out tomorrow.

 

[EAST KENT]

Thing is, I am completely with you on the freedom argument. Totally. But to mix it all up with stuff about Hitler and the holcaust and Iraq is (as East Kent said) pretty horrible and I find it hard to appear to be on the same side as you!

It is extremely offensive in my opinion.My family was a Service one,and heavily involved in hunting;I know that the hunting issue would not even to have occured to my father as any part of a reason for the war,and nor to anyone else either,absolutely absurd.

If JM can ever be persuaded to read something other than stuff about hunting and etiquette he will find that the deportation to "work camps" of Jewish people was going on long long before he thinks.There is plenty of documentation on the matter.

To even put the shooting of a few hounds in the same context as mass extermination is totally abhorrent.

 

[Simsar]

That's terrible! How can they call themselves animal lovers?

They are not animal lovers at all, all they are is Anti Establishment! Come for £25 quid and a punch up and the money comes from the likes of the late Linda MCartney.

 

[Simsar]

Fundamentally they are both scum, the dregs of humanity and thoroughly unpleasant individuals. Often they are high on drugs in order to have the 'bottle' to carry out their evil deeds.

sorry - not quite sure how to do a quote thingy

i have No personal take on hunting whatsover - But surely this statement borders on the libellous - my 2 delghtful Quaker colleagues who have protested against hunting for many yrs would be quite distraught to be described in such a way

We are not describing your mates they are probably doing it for their own reasons, we are describing the others that comes and don't give a **** about animals, cause if they did care they wouldn't spray hounds in the eyes and put glass on the ground! Oh I could go on I don't think people realise what this bunch of Scum can do, I won't even mention on par with terrorist, yes bomb's have been planted on many occasions!

 

[Judgemental]

I just popped into my office and had a read of all the posts.

As a matter of courtesy I will respond individually around 21:15 hrs today.

Save to say, I am intrigued by the comments such as those folk who once supported hunting etc but now don't.

However it is very clear I have touched a very raw nerve, when it is clearly and graphically pointed out that Hitler is the only other person, along with Tony liar to ban hunting.

I shall rejoin the debate this evening.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

I just popped into my office and had a read of all the posts.

As a matter of courtesy I will respond individually around 21:15 hrs today.

Save to say, I am intrigued by the comments such as those folk who once supported hunting etc but now don't.

However it is very clear I have touched a very raw nerve, when it is clearly and graphically pointed out that Hitler is the only other person, along with Tony liar to ban hunting.

I shall rejoin the debate this evening.

can you not leave the Hitler thing alone?Why harp on about something relating to 70 odd years ago, what has it to do with the hunting of today- please answer in syllables that i might understand rather than the pompous drivel!!

 

[DragonSlayer]

that i might understand rather than the pompous drivel!!

'Pompous drivel' that JM is speaking, is actually intelligent conversation, whether you agree with what he says or not.

 

[tootsietoo]

Yes, I'd like to know why it's relevant to the discussion about sabs. I can see that you are comparing Blair to Hitler, which is one thing. But it seems to me that you might also be suggesting that anyone who wants to ban hunting is potentially a genocidal maniac.

Really??????!

Maybe JM IS a troll, this is all a bit ridiculous!

 

[DragonSlayer]

Yes, I'd like to know why it's relevant to the discussion about sabs. I can see that you are comparing Blair to Hitler, which is one thing. But it seems to me that you might also be suggesting that anyone who wants to ban hunting is potentially a genocidal maniac.

Really??????!

Maybe JM IS a troll, this is all a bit ridiculous!

I DID post something earlier as what I read into it, but I believe that no-one bothered to read that, so I won't waste my time again.

 

[tootsietoo]

I read it Dragon Slayer, and it is an interesting fact, but still not sure how it relates to sabs and antis!