justabob
Well-Known Member
This ^^^^ Poor horse, the OP has stated that she has not bonded with it...........
Owner will not accept loan horse back
- Thread starter tegwin12
- Start date
tegwin12
Active Member
Like I've said previously the insurance was ready to go I'd called put the policy in place it's still sat on record with my other horses policy - I just had to get her vaccinated for the policy to become effective - hard to do when the owner refuses the send the passport - vets will not vaccinate without it - mine certainly won't.
TandD
Well-Known Member
Why will the illness be 'likely to reoccur'? Surely with the correct management the vets bills will reduce?
DragonSlayer
Well-Known Member
100% agree......
Sugar_and_Spice
Well-Known Member
I don't see it as can't afford vet bills but more as why should somebody pay huge vet bills for a horse they don't own, which has a long standing condition that was not declared to them at the time they took the horse on? It's taking the mickey to expect someone to foot the bill for that.
Also, OP would have got insurance if horses owner had given over passport so that OP could pay for vaccinations. Though I doubt insurance would cover a pre existing condition anyway.
Yes its a living creature and it may have a nice personality, but its a sick animal that nobody wants. Owner may want the horse but can't afford vet bills or livery. If the owner was posting on here saying that, they'd have tons of people saying to PTS then.
justabob
Well-Known Member
The passport HAS to go with the horse, it is the law. Seems to be both parties have been very relaxed about the whole loaning business.
hnmisty
Well-Known Member
Sadly I expect you'd still find yourself stuck with her in 8 months time "oh, could you just keep her for another month whilst I look for a job?" Time and time again.
To the people saying tegwin should happily fork out for all these vets bills...if this was your horse that was ill (something that isn't the loanee's fault) would you honestly expect them to pick up all the vets bills and keep a clean conscience? I certainly couldn't! It would be straight back with me, and if I couldn't afford it then it would be my responsibility to sort something out.
Vets bills for recoverable illnesses/lameness are one thing. Ongoing medical Care another. Say the horse does recover. Owner could say "thanks very much, I'm having her back and I'm going to sell her".
I hope you sort something out
ihatework
Well-Known Member
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I would no way accept a horse on loan (or Loan one out) without the passport going with the horse and insurance in place & contract signed.
And yes, I have loaned myself and also loaned out my own. And no, I have never had one go wrong.
And yes, I have loaned myself and also loaned out my own. And no, I have never had one go wrong.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Still waiting to hear where the horse was collected from.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Is it leucocytoclastic pastern vasculitis or photosensitivity caused by eating something?
Either way sun cream applied to white markings when it's sunny is one of the basic ways to avoid it reoccurring. You can also get sun chaps, use tubigrip as leg covers or stable during the day and turn out at night. Also remove plants linked to photosensitivity from the diet (no alfalfa in feeds and spray for buttercups etc...).
There's a huge thread about leucocytoclastic pastern vasculitis on AL and the key seems to be using sun cream of at least factor 40.
Jaycee
Well-Known Member
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
But most people who have horses on loan have a 30day return clause and can avoid massive fees by using it. I meant when there was no agreement in place for cancellation of the contract.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Really Jaycee? That's outrageous.
TandD
Well-Known Member
Exactly what I was thinking......
WelshD
Well-Known Member
At the end of the day the horse doesnt belong to you, I'm guessing if you wanted the full on responsibility you could have bought a second horse and I'm amazed that others expect you to foot the bill for something that you didnt cause which could be ongoing in a horse that you dont want to keep
Thats the risk the loaner takes by retaining ownership and loaning out, if they dont have a job they need to arrange for the horse to be re-loaned straight away - not your problem at the end of the day
I would look after the horse to the best of your ability till the 30 days notice are up then return the horse
Thats the risk the loaner takes by retaining ownership and loaning out, if they dont have a job they need to arrange for the horse to be re-loaned straight away - not your problem at the end of the day
I would look after the horse to the best of your ability till the 30 days notice are up then return the horse
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Did the problem occur after the OP loaned him/her, or did the horse have sore legs when he/she was delivered?
As I said - it is preventable with correct care.
I loaned a pony for 2 1/2 years and the owner didn't pay the vet's bills during that time. However the pony could have been returned to the owner after a short notice period. Plus the owner could take the pony back after giving me a short notice period.
Polos Mum
Well-Known Member
Why outrageous? My big horse is on loan to me and after all the years of wonderful riding he's given me I'd write a cheque for £1000's if that's what he needed - no hesitation. He's also a vetran so no insurance
tegwin12
Active Member
Thanks for all the advice/opinions I appreciate everyone's point of view and I am going to speak to a solicitor tomorrow and see where I stand legally.
Honey08
Waffled a lot!
Poor horse, seems like it is caught up in a battle between two people who don't care and who didn't have any sense when they set this loan up.
I would send the owner a letter saying the horse will be returning to the place that it came from in 30 days time. Then hope that the owner can find somewhere to keep it.
I would send the owner a letter saying the horse will be returning to the place that it came from in 30 days time. Then hope that the owner can find somewhere to keep it.
Eriskayowner
Well-Known Member
I have a Dartmoor pony on "loan" - I have had him for 2 years now, but it was supposed to be for 6 months trial. I have no paperwork and no contact number, apart from the yard he came from.
So far, I've paid for a full set of tack (he only came with a headcollar), reflective sheet, sweet itch rug, turnout rug, vets visit when he got kicked/cut his leg which needed stitching, dentist to do his teeth (which were horrific), worming, shoes, trimming and feed etc.
I've also just paid a vets call out for a microchip to be implanted and a passport application so he can be transported.
Surely if you take on a loan horse you take the rough with the smooth? The owner is clearly not in a position to have your loan horse back so pay the bills and carry on with the loan?
So far, I've paid for a full set of tack (he only came with a headcollar), reflective sheet, sweet itch rug, turnout rug, vets visit when he got kicked/cut his leg which needed stitching, dentist to do his teeth (which were horrific), worming, shoes, trimming and feed etc.
I've also just paid a vets call out for a microchip to be implanted and a passport application so he can be transported.
Surely if you take on a loan horse you take the rough with the smooth? The owner is clearly not in a position to have your loan horse back so pay the bills and carry on with the loan?
lachlanandmarcus
Well-Known Member
But no loaner would have signed a loan agreement without any notice clause. The owner who puts a horse on loan may HOPE they don't come back if that would cause them issues, ESP if horse is crook, but they have to work on the basis that might happen.
OP I think it is reasonable for you to cover the lameness, colic etc type illnesses, but given the owner has effectively prevented you from insuring for more serious stuff by retaining the PP, I think they give up any moral rights to anything more, ESP as you have paid some bills already.
I would give 30 days notice by recorded delivery, and if nothing is done by the expiry. I'm afraid I would be taking said horse and tying them to said fence of said house.
If the owner wanted to be rid of responsibility as well as day to day costs of the horse, they should have sold it NOT loaned it. They should decide whether to PTS or make other arrangements eg grass livery for the horse to keep costs down.
Regandal
Well-Known Member
If you like the horse, why not offer to buy him? This condition seems to be manageable, and the owner doesn't seem to be in a position to look after him. If she's really strapped, she may accept a reduced price.
tegwin12
Active Member
This is not an option for me im afraid the same way it is not an option for her but as she is the owner of the horse she needs to make alternative arrangements for her care and I have explained I am more than happy to do what I can to assist if she would just say that she would have her back in a couple of months - the fact is whether the horse is ill or not I should be able to return her I havnt signed anything saying otherwise ........
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite
Well-Known Member
Having put my own horse on loan in the past AND having got a mare on loan at the mo: I'm seeing this both ways!
When you take a horse on loan you take it lock-stock-and-barrel basically and its up to the loaner to pay all the bills, vets and all, BUT in this instance the loaner has said she wants to discontinue the "loan". However there is no formal contract in place detailing the period of the loan.
Having had a situation where my horse was out on loan and the loaner wanted to cancel it after only five weeks, I am in some sympathy with the owner as she may well not be able to have the horse back at the moment, especially with winter coming on, HOWEVER, I don't really see why if loaner for her own good reasons (in this case, vet fees) for not continuing the loan and has told the owner so clearly, then the owner should/must take heed of that and if they can't have the horse back then arrange either another loan, OR if veterinary treatment/fees is likely to be an ongoing issue, arrange to have the horse PTS for humane reasons rather than sell the poor creature on and have it hauled around the markets until it ends up in a dog tin.
Sorry loaner, but before taking on any loan you SHOULD have made sure that you'd signed a proper loan agreement; plus the owner too should have ensured this happened. But alas no good shutting the stable door after horse has bolted.
Think it a good idea OP for you to talk to a solicitor. But ultimately the facts are (1) the horse isn't yours (so why should you have the expense of someone else's horse when you've already said you want to hand it back); and (2) having informed the owner that you wish to terminate the loan, they are continuing to ignore that and YOU are left with the bills.
Sounds like the owner is hoping you'll take the horse (plus bills) on permanently........... think that the passport issue to start with was a bit of a warning bell TBH.
You COULD be drastic and write a recorded delivery letter to the owner and say that as they're continuing to ignore your desire to hand the horse back - and YOU are having to pay out vets fees for it, that unless they get back to you with say 30 days that you will be arranging humane destruction of the animal and all vets fees to date will be accruable to them........
But anyway, see what your legal beagal says.
When you take a horse on loan you take it lock-stock-and-barrel basically and its up to the loaner to pay all the bills, vets and all, BUT in this instance the loaner has said she wants to discontinue the "loan". However there is no formal contract in place detailing the period of the loan.
Having had a situation where my horse was out on loan and the loaner wanted to cancel it after only five weeks, I am in some sympathy with the owner as she may well not be able to have the horse back at the moment, especially with winter coming on, HOWEVER, I don't really see why if loaner for her own good reasons (in this case, vet fees) for not continuing the loan and has told the owner so clearly, then the owner should/must take heed of that and if they can't have the horse back then arrange either another loan, OR if veterinary treatment/fees is likely to be an ongoing issue, arrange to have the horse PTS for humane reasons rather than sell the poor creature on and have it hauled around the markets until it ends up in a dog tin.
Sorry loaner, but before taking on any loan you SHOULD have made sure that you'd signed a proper loan agreement; plus the owner too should have ensured this happened. But alas no good shutting the stable door after horse has bolted.
Think it a good idea OP for you to talk to a solicitor. But ultimately the facts are (1) the horse isn't yours (so why should you have the expense of someone else's horse when you've already said you want to hand it back); and (2) having informed the owner that you wish to terminate the loan, they are continuing to ignore that and YOU are left with the bills.
Sounds like the owner is hoping you'll take the horse (plus bills) on permanently........... think that the passport issue to start with was a bit of a warning bell TBH.
You COULD be drastic and write a recorded delivery letter to the owner and say that as they're continuing to ignore your desire to hand the horse back - and YOU are having to pay out vets fees for it, that unless they get back to you with say 30 days that you will be arranging humane destruction of the animal and all vets fees to date will be accruable to them........
But anyway, see what your legal beagal says.
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tegwin12
Active Member
I don't want to buy another horse this was the reason for the loan in the first place - the condition is manageable but at a price - a price which financially I am not able to meet it's putting tremendous pressure on me financially and proving extremely stressful.
mirage
Well-Known Member
We had a pony on trial which turned out to be unsuitable and his owner wouldn't take him back.In the end I sent her a message saying that for very week he was with me outside of our agreed trial period,I would be charging £30 a week grass livery.He was back with her within days.
justabob
Well-Known Member
Why did you enter into this agreement to loan the horse in the first place, a horse that you clearly knew not a lot about? Your cop out is that you have not signed anything, well neither has the loaner The victim is the poor horse.
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saskiahorsey
Well-Known Member
hmm no sympathy from me im afraid...you were happy to take horse without including an insurance plan...you didn't discuss with owner what would happen so both parties are totally irresponsible imho... my horse in on loan to a wonderful couple whos first thoughts were insurance and contract as were mine... and thankfully they understand that even when he cant be ridden due to injury he is still their responsibility ( but as they love said horse) im sure that's not a problem they want whats best for him... haven't read replies as from ur statements mare seems to be in the way...next question.... if she doesn't go back it will be pts lol....!!!!!! irresponsible !!
AmyMay
Situation normal
All pretty standard costs that any loaner would be expecting to pay for (apart obviously from the micro chip and passport).
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
It's not a condition where PTS should be in the equation at all.
I do agree that anyone involved in a loan - owner or loaner - should make sure that a proper loan agreement is in place.
I do agree that anyone involved in a loan - owner or loaner - should make sure that a proper loan agreement is in place.