Owner will not accept loan horse back

[Meowy Catkin]

Sorry - I assumed that she had confirmed to you via PM that it was LPV.

My horse is recovering, one leg is there and the other two just have three tiny spots to go, at least he only has three white legs. :0

 

[Moomin1]

OP the other thought which crosses my mind is that if there is no written contract for loan, then essentially you could perhaps class the owner's refusal to take responsibility of the horse as abandonment. Therefore, I would perhaps discuss with the solicitor going about starting a period of notice to the owner in which they can collect the horse, and if not, ALL responsibility and ownership of the horse transfers to you. You can then do as you wish with the horse, including pts or selling on. Usually, notices are given for about 21 days or thereabouts.

 

[tegwin12]

The vet said it's an immune response there's no way of knowing what it was - her feed/grazing has not changed for the duration of her stay here the vet said she could be fighting something off a virus perhaps but it's liky to return a few times over the next few months -re prevention there is no real prevention as it's a condition inside the body displaying symptoms on the outside - not a bacterial infection like mudfever - or it can be a sign of liver failure I have had bloods taken which I'm am awaiting the results

 

[siennamum]

Sorry - I assumed that she had confirmed to you via PM that it was LPV.

My horse is recovering, one leg is there and the other two just have three tiny spots to go, at least he only has three white legs. :0

If it's anything like my horse with LPV then it will be costing approx. £100 per month in steroids alone, with no guarantee of it getting better. I wouldn't want to take on an auto immune disease unless I had to.

 

[WelshD]

Sorry, I think I must have misunderstood what you meant! :-/

.

lol - I think my fingers type so fast my mind doesnt have a chance to say 'hang on...does that make sense?'

I think your comment about letting the owner know that the OP is taking legal advice is important - OP I would definitely do that

 

[lhotse]

Not going to comment on the legalities, but just wanted to say that these Facebook sites have a lot to answer for. Having seen some of the dealings going on in the SW and the dirty laundry being aired, I would implore people to be very careful about entering into any loan agreement though FB. I certainly would have been very dubious about picking a horse up in a carpark!! That has just happened around here and it turned out the horse is the subject of an ownership dispute. With no passport, no contract and the owner not wanting it back, maybe the horse is one of the multitude that is missing on loan and that's why the owner doesn't want it back.

Just a thought.....

ETD Sorry, misread about the carpark, serves me right for skim reading! But could still be dodgy if you ask me!

 

[cptrayes]

Goodness, the poor horse is hardly a walking vet bill ! Many of us have horses with this condition and with correct management avoid repeat episodes.

Basically the OP loaned a horse from a carpark without bothering to sign a contract and obtain the passport. She now wants to return the horse to owner who has lost her job.

Poor horse. It doesn't deserve either of you.

I'd call £400 in two weeks for a condition which is not yet resolved and may flare again a walking vet bill myself.

I am amazed at the level of hostility you and some other posters are showing to someone whose only crime is to want to return a horse to its owner with reasonable notice.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Photosensitivity has many different causes, but the one thing that is clear is - if you have a horse with white legs, you must put suncream on them (and the nose too if that's got pink skin).

Tegwin, if you don't get anywhere with the owner, then Moomin's advice is worth discussing with your solicitor.

 

[FionaM12]

While I agree the OP seems to have acted in haste or rather foolishly by taking a horse with no passport or contract, I wonder what people think a loaner should do if for whatever reason they can't/don't want to care for the horse any longer?

If you own the horse, you can sell, loan, rehome or pts as you think fit. If the horse isn't yours, your only option is to return to the owner. If the owner refuses to have it back, what an earth can the OP do?

In the end, the responsibility for this horse HAS to be with the owner.

 

[cptrayes]

That must cost a fortune in sun cream Faracat???

 

[tegwin12]

Goodness, the poor horse is hardly a walking vet bill ! Many of us have horses with this condition and with correct management avoid repeat episodes.

Basically the OP loaned a horse from a carpark without bothering to sign a contract and obtain the passport. She now wants to return the horse to owner who has lost her job.

Poor horse. It doesn't deserve either of you.

I did not loan the horse from a car park I suggest you ready the threads properly. It's not my fault if the woman has no job she should have sold the horse if she wanted a guarantee the horse wouldn't be returned!?

 

[hnmisty]

I'd call £400 in two weeks for a condition which is not yet resolved and may flare again a walking vet bill myself.

I am amazed by the level of hostility you and some other posters are showing to someone whose only crime is to want to return a horse to its owner with reasonable notice.

This, but I'd add that her only crime is to want to return a horse to its owner with reasonable notice and who is in the mean time footing the vets bills for a horse she knows she doesn't want to keep!

I envy those of you who can easily afford to shell out £200/week for an unknown period of time on vets bills for a horse who have asked the owner (who by ignoring all forms of contact is hardly being a responsible owner) to take back. Or at least you are going on like you can afford that. It remains to be seen whether reality would differ.

Yeah OP should have done this, that and the other, but hindsight is a marvellous thing. If I was in her shoes, within a mere few weeks of funding bills of that scale I would be exceeding my monthly income, and would soon be having to chose between getting the vet out or paying my rent.

ETA: since I'm in a contract the option would be pay my rent...imagine how much grief OP would get on here for having to say "can't afford the vet for the horse I have on loan that I have asked the owner to take back but I'm being ignored".

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Oh - I didn't mean all year round, just the summer. But with my boy, I will probably be switching straight from suncream to mud barrier cream as he's prone to mud fever too.

I do hope this is worked out and that Tegwin lets us know what happens. I wish them lots of luck, it's a horrible situation.

 

[fattylumpkin]

Leaving the should'ves and could'ves behind, OP I wish you luck, there's been a lot of great advice as per your options and I hope this is all settled quickly in a way that fits everyone, most especially the horse!

 

[tegwin12]

Leaving the should'ves and could'ves behind, OP I wish you luck, there's been a lot of great advice as per your options and I hope this is all settled quickly in a way that fits everyone, most especially the horse!

Agreed an very grateful for the advice thanks to everyone

 

[hnmisty]

She now wants to return the horse to owner who has lost her job.

So OP is in the wrong because the owner has lost her job. What if OP lost her job? It's OK for the owner not to take the horse back because she hasn't got a job. But it would be wrong of OP to want to return it if she lost hers?

As others have said, if the owner couldn't afford the horse back then they should have sold. The whole point of a loan is that YOU CAN RETURN IT TO THE OWNER. heck, you don't even need to give a reason, you just need to give your notice.

 

[Pigeon]

I have to say, if one of mine was on loan, I wouldn't expect the loaner to pay vets bills for an ongoing condition. Sure, minor field injuries/colic/viruses I would expect them to cover, but KS investigations or similar I most definitely would not.

 

[FionaM12]

So OP is in the wrong because the owner has lost her job. What if OP lost her job? It's OK for the owner not to take the horse back because she hasn't got a job. But it would be wrong of OP to want to return it if she lost hers?

As others have said, if the owner couldn't afford the horse back then they should have sold. The whole point of a loan is that YOU CAN RETURN IT TO THE OWNER. heck, you don't even need to give a reason, you just need to give your notice.

I agree. If the OP had started this thread by just saying "for personal reasons, I can no longer keep the horse" she might not have had such a bashing.

You surely cannot be OBLIGED to keep a horse?! The reasons for returning aren't really the issue. The fact is, the loaner wants to return it to the owner, with reasonable notice. If the owner can't/doesn't want to keep the horse they can loan to someone else, sell or pts. The loaner can't!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

As others have said, if the owner couldn't afford the horse back then they should have sold. The whole point of a loan is that YOU CAN RETURN IT TO THE OWNER. heck, you don't even need to give a reason, you just need to give your notice.

^^this. there aren't many advantages to loaning, but this is one.

 

[Jaycee]

Really Jaycee? That's outrageous.

Why is that outrageous? I signed the contract so that's what I did for the horse when she needed treatment!

 

[AmyMay]

Agree. Quite sad really that OP is getting blasted by certain posters who actually have shown so much support on other threads for someone who in fact hasn't quite told the truth on here! Oh well, the joys of forums!

Want to elaborate?

 

[Queenbee]

I'm sorry, op I do sympathise which you to a point, but am I the only one who looks at this and thinks, so, you were happy to take the horse on for a year but you didn't plan it properly, you could easily have insured it with another company, you want to use it but only seem to want the perks, now it needs a bit of attention you want to chuck it on the rubbish heap. You agreed to have it for 12 months, I'm sorry but although I agree you can probably get out of this, you did make an agreement, it doesn't matter if it was on fb or on paper... It's an agreement. I have to say if I were the owner I'd want my horse back anyway because someone who takes my horse on would be expected to live in the real world and take the rough with the smooth. If the horse hooned around in the field, hurt its leg and was off work for three months, you should still feel obligated to care for it. If I was loaning my horse out and someone was paying towards his care I'd be really ticked off if he was unridable and they wanted to shirk their financial responsibility. You know how much horses cost, what can go wrong, the financial implications, you took this horse on but you are not willing to care for it as if it were your own which essentially it sounds like you initially agreed to do. Sorry but I don't have as much sympathy for you as others seem to do. I do have sympathy that you haven't had a perfectly healthy horse all throughout (but then that's life). I do have sympathy for the owner who assumed her horse was in a safe caring home (not such a great assumption). My greatest sympathy goes to a horse that no one seems to want or give a damn about and who faces an uncertain future.

Somewhere you state that you have never bonded with the horse, you also say you had a trial period... Why did you take the horse on then after this, oh yeah, because it suited you, now it doesn't.

Nope, sorry but not much sympathy for you or the owner. Poor horse

 

[tegwin12]

I'm sorry, op I do sympathise which you to a point, but am I the only one who looks at this and thinks, so, you were happy to take the horse on for a year but you didn't plan it properly, you could easily have insured it with another company, you want to use it but only seem to want the perks, now it needs a bit of attention you want to chuck it on the rubbish heap. You agreed to have it for 12 months, I'm sorry but although I agree you can probably get out of this, you did make an agreement, it doesn't matter if it was on fb or on paper... It's an agreement. I have to say if I were the owner I'd want my horse back anyway because someone who takes my horse on would be expected to live in the real world and take the rough with the smooth. If the horse hooned around in the field, hurt its leg and was off work for three months, you should still feel obligated to care for it. If I was loaning my horse out and someone was paying towards his care I'd be really ticked off if he was unridable and they wanted to shirk their financial responsibility. You know how much horses cost, what can go wrong, the financial implications, you took this horse on but you are not willing to care for it as if it were your own which essentially it sounds like you initially agreed to do. Sorry but I don't have as much sympathy for you as others seem to do. I do have sympathy that you haven't had a perfectly healthy horse all throughout (but then that's life). I do have sympathy for the owner who assumed her horse was in a safe caring home (not such a great assumption). My greatest sympathy goes to a horse that no one seems to want or give a damn about and who faces an uncertain future.

Somewhere you state that you have never bonded with the horse, you also say you had a trial period... Why did you take the horse on then after this, oh yeah, because it suited you, now it doesn't.

Nope, sorry but not much sympathy for you or the owner. Poor horse

Excuse me I actually said this is difficult because I HAVE bonded with the horse! After the 2 weeks trial I was not aware of an autoimmune condition!!!! Obviously!!! If u take the time to read through the thread properly you will be I have taken no chances and the horse has received the best treatment. You will also see the issues I have had re insurance and contracts. Circumstances change i can't keep the horse and I can't sell the horse rehome the horse give the horse away so it has to go back to its OWNER - and even if it's was just tht it simply doesn't suit me anymore then yes I am well within my rights to return the horse - that's the whole point of a loan - at some point for some reason the horse is returned

 

[honetpot]

I have loaned out several of my ponies on numerous occasions with a contract, passport, tack, vet checked etc., but at the end of the day contract is worth very little in practice, the shortest amount of notice for return has been two days and I actually picked it up the following day. You can not loan out anything thinking its no longer a responsibility and have a plan B, if they don't want it any animal it has a home. Peoples circumstances change all the time and I don't think having a contract helps where an animal is concerned it just a frame work and sets out intentions and it is hoped that the person you are loaning to understands their responsibilities.
Serving an abandonment notice takes time, and your YO contract is with you so any bills after the period of notice I think you would have to take her to the Small Claims Court and prove you have been reasonable, the trouble is while it is with you its you that have a duty of care. I would do some digging on Facebook and try and find her address and send everything recorded, I would also get it scanned to see if its chipped and get a passport so you can at least move it somewhere cheaper. I wonder how many are going to be dumped this winter?
Good luck I know how stressful it is.

 

[tegwin12]

Thanks honetpot for the advice x

 

[Moomin1]

Want to elaborate?

Not really. But believe me, it makes me cringe.

 

[AmyMay]

Not really. But believe me, it makes me cringe.

Well it's a moot point in that case.

 

[Arizahn]

This has put me off loaning.

Poor horse, hope someone will agree to take responsibility for it! Agree owner should hold the insurance policy for the animal, loaner should have separate cover as rider, and pay for regular stuff/treatment costs up to the excess amount. And contract to prove ownership would presumably help in case of abuse/theft if nothing else!

Here are some strips you may tear off me if so desired. After what I saw yesterday, I really don't care enough about humans to pay attention, tbh...

<self immoliates to save time>

 

[Moomin1]

Well it's a moot point in that case.

To you yes. To me, I only wish so much 'support' and 'advice' had not been given, as said horse would have been better off.

 

[AmyMay]

There we are then...