Owner will not accept loan horse back

[AmyMay]

Im guessing that as the op won't say where they collected the horse from it was either delivered unseen or collected from a car park somewhere - which makes the situation even more unpalatable.

I really don't know what the answer is to be honest. But poor, poor horse. It's a rather heartbreaking situation.

 

[Moomin1]

All pretty standard costs that any loaner would be expecting to pay for (apart obviously from the micro chip and passport).

In my view if you take a horse on full loan, you pay for it's every need, unless of course there's a written contract stating otherwise

 

[tegwin12]

I have never made any mention of putting the horse down and this is not something I've considered! Lol!!!!!!! Maybe you should read the entire thread and you will see that the contract was supposed to be drawn up by the owner after the trial - this never happened! You will see that from my previous comments I have chased and chased and chased the owner for the passport to enable me to a) insure the horse and b) legally travel the horse to competitions which was the whole purpose of the loan!!!

 

[Eriskayowner]

All pretty standard costs that any loaner would be expecting to pay for (apart obviously from the micro chip and passport).

At no point did I say they weren't, although I've never known anyone having to buy a bridle, saddle, girth, sturrups, bits etc. for a loan horse.

Was just pointing out that horses cost money and vets bills are part of those costs.

 

[tegwin12]

No was out on summer grazing in a field! when I picked the horse up- a car park!?

 

[Vodkagirly]

I have never made any mention of putting the horse down and this is not something I've considered! Lol!!!!!!! Maybe you should read the entire thread and you will see that the contract was supposed to be drawn up by the owner after the trial - this never happened! You will see that from my previous comments I have chased and chased and chased the owner for the passport to enable me to a) insure the horse and b) legally travel the horse to competitions which was the whole purpose of the loan!!!

Why on earth did you travel the horse without a passport in the first place? a passport ( and insurance) would of saved a lot of heartache.

 

[hnmisty]

I'm amazed that people think that the OP is in the wrong to want to return the horse to the owner but the owner can't afford it and is ignoring all forms of contact when OP has said she is worried she can't afford the horse any more.

If OP had come on here and said "I've got this amazing horse on loan, everything I want, but now I've been offered an all expenses paid 6 month trip to Australia so I want to give it back" I'd have some sympathy for the owner.

But why on earth someone who has had a horse on loan for 4 months should feel obliged to keep funding bills that could lead to her having financial problems with her own horse is beyond me. 4 months isn't very long to develop the loyalty to this horse to want to be spending hundreds of pounds a month on its veterinary care , and nor is this an illness that OP thinks is going to be a one off (infected cut, abscess, whatever). Nor is it something she's "caused".

I wonder how many of you would really be willing to fund the bills for somebody else's horse when you can't afford to!

Which is worse- OP wants the owner to take the horse back as she can't afford the bills, or OP leaves the horse out in the field with no vet care because she can't afford it?!

 

[tegwin12]

Obviously

 

[Moomin1]

Why on earth did you travel the horse without a passport in the first place? a passport ( and insurance) would of saved a lot of heartache.

I am quite sure OP is not the only person to ever travel a horse without a passport! Hell, I've forgotten to take my horse's on a number of occassions now!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Mmmm, think the REAL issue here is that the loaner for her own good reasons (i.e. affordability/vets fees) wishes to discontinue the loan forthwith.

The complication is that no "proper" loan agreement, i.e. written contract, is in place.

The owner is refusing to communicate with the "loaner" even though loaner has said she wishes to now hand the horse back.

"Loaner" hasn't basically done anything wrong! Its just she doesn't feel that she can afford to keep shelling out on veterinary for this horse and wants to discontinue the loan, and having said this in as many words to the owner is experiencing a total blank-wall from them.

Sorry, probably sounding very "preachy" but it does go to show the inadvisable-ness of not having any sort of loan agreement.

But loaner is perfectly within her rights to want to hand the horse back!!!!

Just felt this point needed clarification!

 

[WelshD]

At the end of the day while the horse has been on loan the OP HAS picked up the bills, (albeit a little unhappily) she hasnt shirked her responsibility at all, has accepted there is no insurance and has been paying out

even if there was a contract a 30 day notice period is standard

The OP just needs to action a 30 day notice, I would imagine that any bills up to the point of collection would be settled, the OP doesnt seem unreasonable

Yes the owner is now going to be stuck with a problem but unless the OP can be shown as totally responsible for the problem (as a previous poster has hinted this could be possible) the owner has to suck it up as ultimately the horse is their responsibility

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Tegwin - I know that you didn't mention PTS, it was other posters that did. I wonder if they'd PTS horses with bad mud fever too?

However, it was a mistake to accept the horse at all without a proper loan agreement and the passport. Of course this is easy for me to say, but if anyone who is reading this is thinking about loaning, please learn from this.

I do hope that it goes well with the solicitor, that the situation is resolved and that the horse is OK.


ETA

But loaner is perfectly within her rights to want to hand the horse back!!!!

I agree

 

[AmyMay]

No was out on summer grazing in a field! when I picked the horse up- a car park!?

Great. So you can contact the owner giving a date on which you'll be returning the horse from where you collected it from. Job done.

 

[Moomin1]

At the end of the day while the horse has been on loan the OP HAS picked up the bills, (albeit a little unhappily) she hasnt shirked her responsibility at all, has accepted there is no insurance and has been paying out

even if there was a contract a 30 day notice period is standard

The OP just needs to action a 30 day notice, I would imagine that any bills up to the point of collection would be settled, the OP doesnt seem unreasonable

Yes the owner is now going to be stuck with a problem but unless the OP can be shown as totally responsible for the problem (as a previous poster has hinted this could be possible) the owner has to suck it up as ultimately the horse is their responsibility

From a welfare point of view in the eyes of the law, both are equally responsible.

 

[navaho]

I honestly cant believe the number of people having a go at the OP. When you loan a horse its on the understanding (unless stated otherwise) that it can be returned to the owner should things not work out. I dont really see the issue, regardless of the reason for ending the loan the owner is at fault for not collecting the horse. Ive 2 on loan with me here, im about to terminate the loan on one, purely due to financial reasons, you have accept as an owner of a horse that you have loaned out that sometime things happens & you need to step up & take responsibility for the horse, if you know full well you wont be able to do that then the horse should have been sold in the first place.

 

[tegwin12]

The land wasn't hers it was rented - I don't just want to dump the horse ;(

 

[AmyMay]

At no point did I say they weren't, although I've never known anyone having to buy a bridle, saddle, girth, sturrups, bits etc. for a loan horse.

Quite often a loan horse will come with merely the headcoller worn on the box. Sometimes with tack. But more often not.

Was just pointing out that horses cost money and vets bills are part of those costs.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

 

[Woody2013]

If that was my horse, I will want it back. I wouldn't expect the loaner to foot vet bills for an ever ongoing medical problem. I will have been upset if the loaner caused it or an accident on their care, etc ... but not a systemic illness. I wonder how much the owner knew about it beforehand, and happy to offload the horse to someone else. Hence no passport provided as well? Loaners have a responsibility, but I think in this case the owner should take his horse back and take responsibility for it.

Good luck with the solicitor's advice x

 

[Moomin1]

I honestly cant believe the number of people having a go at the OP. When you loan a horse its on the understanding (unless stated otherwise) that it can be returned to the owner should things not work out. I dont really see the issue, regardless of the reason for ending the loan the owner is at fault for not collecting the horse. Ive 2 on loan with me here, im about to terminate the loan on one, purely due to financial reasons, you have accept as an owner of a horse that you have loaned out that sometime things happens & you need to step up & take responsibility for the horse, if you know full well you wont be able to do that then the horse should have been sold in the first place.

Agree. Quite sad really that OP is getting blasted by certain posters who actually have shown so much support on other threads for someone who in fact hasn't quite told the truth on here! Oh well, the joys of forums!

 

[ester]

At the end of the day while the horse has been on loan the OP HAS picked up the bills, (albeit a little unhappily) she hasnt shirked her responsibility at all, has accepted there is no insurance and has been paying out

even if there was a contract a 30 day notice period is standard

The OP just needs to action a 30 day notice, I would imagine that any bills up to the point of collection would be settled, the OP doesnt seem unreasonable

Yes the owner is now going to be stuck with a problem but unless the OP can be shown as totally responsible for the problem (as a previous poster has hinted this could be possible) the owner has to suck it up as ultimately the horse is their responsibility

Well summarised! The OP has paid the horse's vet bills while he has been in her care. For whatever reason she now wishes to terminate the loan which any normal owner would know could be a possibility given 30 days notice. - I can't see why the OP is in the wrong.

Sorry OP no other suggestions, the BHS template actually has a not fit for purpose clause too.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

tegwin12, obviously hindsight is a good thing, but its not helping with some other posters on here saying now what you 'should' have done.
Action:
Either, send a letter registered post outlining the termination of the agreement on xyz date.
You could perhaps offer to deliver horse to owners nominated place.
Or:
Go & get a 30 day notice on the horse, then at the end of that time you can legally decide what to do (Keep, PTS, sell on or take to abbatoir yourself, the last being the most financially efficient way)
Or:
take legal advice from BHS if you are a member, or try your house insurance if you have no avenues of equestrian cover as you may well have a legal helpline there.

Good luck - I hope you get a resolvement.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I wouldn't expect the loaner to foot vet bills for an ever ongoing medical problem. I will have been upset if the loaner caused it or an accident on their care, etc ... but not a systemic illness.

Oh come on now - it's not that bad, it's comparable with bad mud fever and you can prevent it from reoccurring. The horse is not doomed to suffer with the condition for the rest of it's life.

 

[WelshD]

From a welfare point of view in the eyes of the law, both are equally responsible.

But the loaner can get out of their responsibility for the horse by giving it back. The OP is making sure the horse gets all necessary care currently and I am sure will do up to the day they give it back so the horse isnt going without proper care but once back with the owner its simply not their problem even in the eyes of the law surely?

 

[cptrayes]

Oh come on now - it's not that bad, it's comparable with bad mud fever and you can prevent it from reoccurring. The horse is not doomed to suffer with the condition for the rest of it's life.

The loaner appears to be getting advice from her vet that you are not right about this, and he treats the horse and is in a betteyr position to know, I would have thought.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Well I own a horse that suffers from it, but I accept that I haven't seen this particular horse or spoken to their Vet Re the horse.

 

[cptrayes]

Well I own a horse that suffers from it, but I accept that I haven't seen this particular horse or spoken to their Vet Re the horse.

I haven't scoured the whole thread, but I'm not aware that she has confirmed that your horse has the same disease. And surely, as with all diseases, even if it does hers could be a much worse case.

Sorry your horse has it, it doesn't sound nice.

 

[Moomin1]

But the loaner can get out of their responsibility for the horse by giving it back. The OP is making sure the horse gets all necessary care currently and I am sure will do up to the day they give it back so the horse isnt going without proper care but once back with the owner its simply not their problem even in the eyes of the law surely?

Sorry, I think I must have misunderstood what you meant! :-/

Yes you are correct, once the horse is returned and OP has nothing further to do with ANY of it's care, then it's not OP's problem.

OP sounds to me to be doing the right thing by the horse currently, and it's no use anyone blasting OP for not taking a written contract out now - I think she gathers that was a mistake. I think OP should make a call to all of the welfare organisations and ask for advice in order to cover her back. I also think that she needs to make the owner aware of this, and the fact that she is taking legal advice on the matter.

 

[Honey08]

The other thing that stands out to me, is that the horse was "out on it's summer grazing" when OP took it on, so had been living out fine, or was it already ill when you took it OP? Could it be the OP's grazing that triggers it perhaps? I don't have much experience of this condition.

 

[putasocinit]

Hope there is a good outcome for the horses sake, once again not their fault, clearly owner doesnt want it back

 

[dogatemysalad]

Goodness, the poor horse is hardly a walking vet bill ! Many of us have horses with this condition and with correct management avoid repeat episodes.

Basically the OP loaned a horse from a carpark without bothering to sign a contract and obtain the passport. She now wants to return the horse to owner who has lost her job.

Poor horse. It doesn't deserve either of you.