Owner won’t sell to us (loaning)

[Peglo]

we got the offer to buy or carry on loaning my cousins pony after years of her being on loan. Cousin wanted to carry on loaning as she didn’t have money set aside for buying her but she also knew the owner didn’t want her back or have anywhere to put her. (But the offer to sell to us was nice and obviously done with good intentions as she never advertised her for sale to get money for her) It’s a win for both really but most importantly the pony is happy where she is.

I think the longer this pony is away from the owner, the more she’ll realise she doesn’t need the hassle or cost of having a pony so I too would sit tight. If she decides to sell have the money waiting but you might never need to buy.

 

[Blueysmum]

Your daughter is 16. Within the working life of this horse she will leave home, start college, get her first job, have several unsuitable boyfriends just to annoy you, get engaged twice, settle in three different towns....
Loaning is the best idea for someone in their later teens. It requires a different mindset. You learned a huge amount & now know you can bring on another if necessary. Enjoy him.

We have an 8 year old who also rides him and he would be perfect for her to move into as she grows.

 

[Blueysmum]

Make out like the horse has blown a tendon or similar, and say to her I will offer you 'x' amount to buy now as I am about to spend a lot in vets fees, or I'll have to return him and you will have to have the vet etc as i'm not willing to shell out on a horse that isn't mine at the end of it..

Don't do that, but it's one of those things you'd like to do to see her face

This is outting but horse was injured not that long ago and cost me £1400 in vet fees as insurance would only cover so much..

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

This is outting but horse was injured not that long ago and cost me £1400 in vet fees as insurance would only cover so much..

Well then a 'recurrence' isn't that remote of a chance....

 

[sport horse]

Make her a good offerto buy and at the same time give her the minimum notice to terminate the loan. Bit of a risk but if she ends elsewhere to sell you should be able to step in then. Maybe wait until winter sets in nicely before you do it?!

 

[Red-1]

Rather unfortunately this is the downside to loaning. Equally if your circumstances changed tomorrow, the upside is you can hand him back if needed (in theory anyway!)
It’s rubbish and it’s always hard if you and the owner have different views on management but you can’t force her to sell to you. (Unless you offer to pay well above market value and only you know if you can/would want to do that)

This is why I bought Rigsby when people thought I was silly to take on an older horse with physical issues. The money bought me peace of mind.

You can't make her sell. If this situation is going to stop you enjoying the horse, I would make a beefy offer and if she turns you down, return the horse and buy one, where you can have full control.

Everyone will sell at a price .

Not so. I was offered silly-money for BH at one point. Not for sale. I have been offered inflated money for other horses, and not been interested. I can think of at least one horse of yours that I doubt you would have sold to a stranger at any price.

OP, it is just one of those things. The horse belongs to her.

That’s what I’m worried about but iv said to my husband if she did I would probably take her court. I have a lot of evidence of him being skin and bones, his hooves, where he was living etc and the fact she’s said we have first refusal.

I’m going to have to think of a price, to us he’s priceless, we’ve already spent thousands on him with training and all his kit as he came with absolutely nothing lol

I don't think you have any grounds to take her to court. She offered first refusal, but can retract that.

 

[nagblagger]

Why did you pay the vet, maybe keep account of all 'other expenses' that you would need reimbursement for, before he leaves your yard.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Why did you pay the vet, maybe keep account of all 'other expenses' that you would need reimbursement for, before he leaves your yard.

Yes, and everything you bought for him is yours. He arrived with nothing; if she takes him back he leaves with nothing.

 

[JBM]

Why did you pay the vet, maybe keep account of all 'other expenses' that you would need reimbursement for, before he leaves your yard.

I mean depending on their contract if there is one they could be fully responsible for any vet fees

 

[Bellaboo18]

You have no loan agreement?
First refusal is nice to offer but she has no legal obligation to do it realistically whether she said she would or not.
You took the pony on knowing you couldn’t buy the pony. It’s her pony
I’m loaning out one of mine and she will never ever be for sale. I will never be able to ride her as she’s too small but she’s part of my family.
If I heard the people I’m loaning to talking like this I’d take her back

This.
The idea you'd take her to court for selling something that's hers is Sorry you have no right to this horse.
If you want him though, I'd definitely call her bluff. It's worked for me in the past (although the owner was in prison )
Good luck and I hope your daughter continues to enjoy him.

 

[MissTyc]

The flipside of all this is that you and your family have learned a lot bringing on this pony. I am sure it's a lovely pony now and you obviously are all in love. Which is really wonderful. Hard cash speaks volume, but I wouldn't offer (much) more than the pony is worth on the open market. Because you now have the experience and the skillset to bring on a different pony if you had to, and next time it will probably be your pony not someone else's!

 

[southerncomfort]

It's the chance anyone takes with loaning.

It's the owner's prerogative to take the horse back when they care to.

You've got no grounds to take the owner to court. Just offer to buy the horse or be prepared to wave the horse goodbye.

When I loaned my young junior eventer out, I agreed the value as she was when the loan home took her on, and stated that they could keep any uplift in value if she had ever gone on to be sold elsewhere. You do not seem to have done that.

As it is, after a number of successes she came back broken and had to be retired at age 7 - as her owner that was the risk that I took loaning her out. I didn't ask for or get reimbursed for the fall in her value.

Agreed.

Honestly, threads like this put me off ever loaning a horse out.

I think people forget what loaning is....a mutually beneficial agreement whereby the loaner has free use of a horse without the initial, expensive purchase price, while the owner gets to keep control of the future of a much loved horse. Very few loans lead to a sale and if the owner has made clear that she does not want to sell, then its wrong to put pressure on her.

It sounds like the owner had to loan this horse out due to her mental health. I do hope she doesn't see this thread.

 

[Blueysmum]

I mean depending on their contract if there is one they could be fully responsible for any vet fees

We have no contract.. iv signed nothing

 

[Tiddlypom]

We have no contract.. iv signed nothing

Well, that was silly on both sides .

 

[Gallop_Away]

Agreed.

Honestly, threads like this put me off ever loaning a horse out.

I think people forget what loaning is....a mutually beneficial agreement whereby the loaner has free use of a horse without the initial, expensive purchase price, while the owner gets to keep control of the future of a much loved horse. Very few loans lead to a sale and if the owner has made clear that she does not want to sell, then its wrong to put pressure on her.

It sounds like the owner had to loan this horse out due to her mental health. I do hope she doesn't see this thread.

Agreed! I find it in very poor taste the comments suggesting OP manipulate/pressure the owner into selling when she has already said no.

Imagine if this thread was in the reverse "I sent my horse on loan as I was struggling with my mental health. Loaner has asked to buy him but I've made it clear that I don't want to sell but if that changes I've told them they can have first refusal. However I'm still being pressured to sell when I really don't want to" then imagine "they've hinted at court action if I take my horse back"

 

[Blueysmum]

Well, that was silly on both sides .

Fully aware but iv kept all messages x

 

[nagblagger]

Hindsight is always a wonderful thing,
Find out what is normally covered in a normal loan agreement (if there is such one) and then calculate the additional vets fees and other oddities which the owner normally would cover. You then have 2 choices, just to keep dormant until she makes a move to possibly sell ,or approach her and say you have heard that she was thinking of selling to her friend, so you would like to be paid for the expenses.
I would personally stay quiet until if, and when, the need arises, gathering information and evidence. Hopefully it will not be needed.

 

[Jenko109]

Agreed! I find it in very poor taste the comments suggesting OP manipulate/pressure the owner into selling when she has already said no.

Imagine if this thread was in the reverse "I sent my horse on loan as I was struggling with my mental health. Loaner has asked to buy him but I've made it clear that I don't want to sell but if that changes I've told them they can have first refusal. However I'm still being pressured to sell when I really don't want to" then imagine "they've hinted at court action if I take my horse back"

Or there is the other side of the coin, where the owner has hinted that she will sell the horse to her friend instead, knowing full well that the loaner wants to buy the horse. Very cruel.

 

[tristar]

you have done great by this horse by the sound of it

if it was MY HORSE i would gift it to you on permanent lifetime loan

 

[Gallop_Away]

Or there is the other side of the coin, where the owner has hinted that she will sell the horse to her friend instead, knowing full well that the loaner wants to buy the horse.

But that's her choice as his owner

 

[Jenko109]

But that's her choice as his owner

It is, but it also highlights that the owner is not a particularly nice person. Mental health concerns or not, upsetting your loaner by indicating you're going to sell the horse to someone else, even if only jokingly, is very unkind.

Two wrongs perhaps do not make a right, however given the spiteful nature of this owner, nobody can blame the loaner for thinking outside the box for a way to get this owner to sell, especially given the state that the horse arrived in.

 

[Surbie]

Agreed.

Honestly, threads like this put me off ever loaning a horse out.

You generally only have people coming to post on here when there is a problem with a loan. I imagine there have to be lots out there that are working very well. I was incredibly lucky in having my horse gifted to me after 2 years of loaning and regular contact with the owner. A couple of my friends are in years 3 and 5 of having theirs on full loan.

OP, in your first post you say the owner joked about selling him last summer, so about a year ago, when you would have had the horse for about 6 months? So you've had him for a year without any other comments about a sale?

Has there anything happened to make you think that this is now likely?

 

[Gallop_Away]

It is, but it also highlights that the owner is not a particularly nice person.

Completely irrelevant I'm afraid. Her horse, her decision. The risk you take by loaning instead of buying a horse.

 

[Jenko109]

Completely irrelevant I'm afraid. Her horse, her decision. The risk you take by loaning instead of buying a horse.

Irrelevant to what? We are discussing the rights and wrongs of the loaner using manipulation to get the owner to sell.

I think the way the owner has treated the horse and the loaner in the past are very relevant.

 

[Lexi 123]

If she does take the horse off you and sells to her friend . I would consider reporting her to animal rescue if the horse was very skinny and neglected the owner shouldn’t be owning a horse at all. If you have pictures of when he arrived i would send it to them .

 

[Gallop_Away]

Irrelevant to what? We are discussing the rights and wrongs of the loaner using manipulation to get the owner to sell.

I think the way the owner has treated the horse and the loaner in the past are very relevant.

It is irrelevant as the fact remains, he is her horse, not the loaners. The rights and wrongs of who did what doesn't alter that fact. (I will also point out that we only have one side of the story also).

Whether the loaner likes it or not, he is her horse to do with as she pleases, and if she has said no to selling to the loaner, then that I'm afraid is that. The loaner should accept that is the risk you take when loaning instead of buying, not looking for ways to pressure/manipulate the owner into changing her mind.

 

[sarcasm_queen]

If she does take the horse off you and sells to her friend . I would consider reporting her to animal rescue if the horse was very skinny and neglected the owner shouldn’t be owning a horse at all. If you have pictures of when he arrived i would send it to them .

Yeah, please don’t do this OP

 

[Jenko109]

It is irrelevant as the fact remains, he is her horse, not the loaners. The rights and wrongs of who did what doesn't alter that fact. (I will also point out that we only have one side of the story also).

Whether the loaner likes it or not, he is her horse to do with as she pleases, and if she has said no to selling to the loaner, then that I'm afraid is that. The loaner should accept that is the risk you take when loaning instead of buying, not looking for ways to pressure/manipulate the owner into changing her mind.

We will have to agree to disagree.

As far as welfare is concerned, I would do what I needed to do, if it meant preventing an animal from being neglected again.

 

[Lexi 123]

Yeah, please don’t do this OP

There is no excuse for neglecting an animal if the owner is incapable of caring for the horse correctly then she should be reported to animal welfare authorities and shouldn’t have her horse back. People would have different attitude if it was a dog.

 

[southerncomfort]

Clearly the owner did realise she was struggling and put it out on loan. Reporting her for neglect would be an awful thing to do.

Please remember you only have the story from the point of view of the disgruntled loaner.

I repeat...if the owner is unwell then I really hope she doesn't see this.

(Edited)