Parelli Demo on robert Whittakers stallion Stonleigh Friday 9th...Anybody else bside

PapaFrita said:
Please explain the rationale behind that. Why does the 'safe' spot have to be on a barrel, as opposed, say, to next to you?
Frankly I don't see the point of the 'tricks'. I don't need to make my mare stand on barrels to know she trusts me. She has placed her trust in me in countless ways over the years and to 'test' this trust by asking her to stand on a barrel (I know she would try, by the way) would in MY mind, be an insult to the relationship we have. But that's probably just me.
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The original question was 'Why do their horse stand on barrels' and that was the answer I gave, I could have given an extremely long and details answer that would have helped but I thought the answer I gave was concise and to the point.
Many many things can constitute a comfort/safe place you can use any place eg. a cone, a tree, a ramp, a horsebox any thing, it's a place where the horse can relax between being asked to do something. don't underestimate the power of neural for both horse and 'trainer'.
 
pippinpie said:
The original question was 'Why do their horse stand on barrels' and that was the answer I gave, I could have given an extremely long and details answer that would have helped but I thought the answer I gave was concise and to the point.
Many many things can constitute a comfort/safe place you can use any place eg. a cone, a tree, a ramp, a horsebox any thing, it's a place where the horse can relax between being asked to do something. don't underestimate the power of neural for both horse and 'trainer'.
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That's not my question though. I would like the long and detailed answer please because I truly do find the idea of horses standing on barrels incredibly distasteful (along with some other Parelli activities, but I'll go into those later) and I don't understand why a horse needs a particular object to be 'safe'. What if you're at a show? Do you take the barrel with you? Is it like a comfort blanket? These are all genuine questions, by the way.
 
vandypip said:
Big fat horse on a barrel looks impressive in show situation.
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Yes thats true ;)
But for a horse to explore something, first it has to touch it, then it will lick or bite it and if it gets really confident he will paw it and walk on it, or in this case stand on it.
I have a very sceptical young horse who wasn't very good to load two years ago, when I started to realise that he was doing it out of duty rather than because he felt comfortable doing it. Allowing him to 'nose, neck maybe the feet' as we say to gain confidence and not rush and panic whenever I have to box him, I'm now trying to get him to explore more and his confidence is growing. he's a much less stressed horse now that he is allowed to investigate what ever it is thats worrying him, rather than me giving him a whop and saying silly boy.
 
Circus training comes to mind horses standing on barrels and havn't animals been banned from them in this country.
Most NH training comes down to basic commonsense and taking time. PP cuts corners and it seems most people nowadays want instant success, that is why I think Parellie is so successfull, people aren't wanting to put the time in.
 
vandypip said:
Could make it look more impressive and put trunks on them!!!
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Your getting facetious now,(That one is in the Oxford dictionary ;) ) I was only answering a question obviously you're to not really being serious about wanting a sensible answer.
 
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pippinpie said:
The original question was 'Why do their horse stand on barrels' and that was the answer I gave, I could have given an extremely long and details answer that would have helped but I thought the answer I gave was concise and to the point.
Many many things can constitute a comfort/safe place you can use any place eg. a cone, a tree, a ramp, a horsebox any thing, it's a place where the horse can relax between being asked to do something. don't underestimate the power of neural for both horse and 'trainer'.
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Can I suggest that if you ask your question on thread 'Ask a Parelli student' T n C will give a far better answer to those really seeking to understand that question than I. I'm afraid I am not as used to dealing with Q & A as others. Thanks
 
pippinpie said:
Yes thats true ;)
But for a horse to explore something, first it has to touch it, then it will lick or bite it and if it gets really confident he will paw it and walk on it, or in this case stand on it.
I have a very sceptical young horse who wasn't very good to load two years ago, when I started to realise that he was doing it out of duty rather than because he felt comfortable doing it. Allowing him to 'nose, neck maybe the feet' as we say to gain confidence and not rush and panic whenever I have to box him, I'm now trying to get him to explore more and his confidence is growing. he's a much less stressed horse now that he is allowed to investigate what ever it is thats worrying him, rather than me giving him a whop and saying silly boy.
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What you have described about making a young horse confident and allowing him to explore his environment is what any decent non Parellietic trainer would do anyway. Our youngsters are positively encouraged and have play fights with feed sacks, see off umbrellas etc. When we were young we rode our ponies up a flight of stairs into a derelict stately home, rode without bridles and saddles steering with legs and the occasional tug on the forelock for brakes, jumped blindfold - the horses had so much trust in us because we had so much trust and belief in them that the mutual confidence engendered allowed us to do anything with them.

Do you go wow when you see a horse load itself into a trailer? Mine do that from 12 months of age. When one of those same foals was turned out to grass at 6 months just weaned, he walked for half a mile on the road wearing my daughters jacket on his back because she was too hot.

We take our time with our young horses, we are complemented on their mannerly behaviour. I use techniques handed down from my parents and those people who are quiet, patient and understanding of horses.

All this tom foolery with sticks, ropes smoke and mirrors is a gimmick for people who are not blessed with a good background in horses and like all the slimming clubs out there - why are they still in business? Diets don't work.

Equally why is Mr PP in business because there will always be those people with blind faith in a technique that completely ignores the fundamentals of horsemanship.

It is about time people learned horsemanship full stop so that when a horse bucks, rears won't load instead of calling for a cavalry quick fix - get back to basics. It may take you some precious time but that is all you need to make a relationship with ANY horse and progress with him.
 
pippinpie said:
Yes thats true ;)
But for a horse to explore something, first it has to touch it, then it will lick or bite it and if it gets really confident he will paw it and walk on it, or in this case stand on it.
I have a very sceptical young horse who wasn't very good to load two years ago, when I started to realise that he was doing it out of duty rather than because he felt comfortable doing it. Allowing him to 'nose, neck maybe the feet' as we say to gain confidence and not rush and panic whenever I have to box him, I'm now trying to get him to explore more and his confidence is growing. he's a much less stressed horse now that he is allowed to investigate what ever it is thats worrying him, rather than me giving him a whop and saying silly boy.
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You're only describing 'normal' horse management tho. Most people will allow their youngsters to explore and have a sniff and a paw at new things, including the ramp until they are confident enough to load.
The difference is that competitive riders have to use this in a progressive way. So the young horse starts exploring & building it's own confidence & confidence in the rider till it realises that it can trust whatever the rider asks and doesn't need to explore new things, just take them on face value.
 
pippinpie said:
Yes thats true ;)
But for a horse to explore something, first it has to touch it, then it will lick or bite it and if it gets really confident he will paw it and walk on it, or in this case stand on it.
I have a very sceptical young horse who wasn't very good to load two years ago, when I started to realise that he was doing it out of duty rather than because he felt comfortable doing it. Allowing him to 'nose, neck maybe the feet' as we say to gain confidence and not rush and panic whenever I have to box him, I'm now trying to get him to explore more and his confidence is growing. he's a much less stressed horse now that he is allowed to investigate what ever it is thats worrying him, rather than me giving him a whop and saying silly boy.
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Why on earth would you give him a whop?? Clearly if a horse is nervous/unsure about something, he should be allowed to investigate. That's common sense, Parelli didn't invent that. BUT what's a loading problem got to do with a barrel? If the horse doesn't like loading, then work with the ramp and the trailer or lorry, feed him/her in there. Allow them to leave if they want. Eventually take them for a short ride and build up. Again, common sense.
 
siennamum said:
You're only describing 'normal' horse management tho. Most people will allow their youngsters to explore and have a sniff and a paw at new things, including the ramp until they are confident enough to load.
The difference is that competitive riders have to use this in a progressive way. So the young horse starts exploring & building it's own confidence & confidence in the rider till it realises that it can trust whatever the rider asks and doesn't need to explore new things, just take them on face value.
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I agree :) as horses get older and more confident they learn through repetitive experiences that they can take things at face value.
I have an older previous county champion WH who still has thresholds relating to new things that happen in his world, like new people for instance, if I have new people in my yard he will be found at the back of his box, (he was horrible beaten before I had him) and they have to gain his trust from scratch.
 
pippinpie said:
Can I suggest that if you ask your question on thread 'Ask a Parelli student' T n C will give a far better answer to those really seeking to understand that question than I. I'm afraid I am not as used to dealing with Q & A as others. Thanks
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Well as you said you could give a long and detailed answer, I assumed you could be prevailed upon to do so. I shall ask TnC on the other thread.
 
PapaFrita said:
Well as you said you could give a long and detailed answer, I assumed you could be prevailed upon to do so. I shall ask TnC on the other thread.
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T n C is far more able to give answers that me as I think she can type alot faster than me and I should really be making the dinner :D
 
vandypip said:
Steady on!!! you're all sounding like you want to belong.
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It's surprising what you can see when the mist clears and things become clearer. It still might be a monster but a least they're taking the time to take a second look.
I don't like football or the Grand Prix but I understand that others find them fascinating.
 
I am pretty confident that my mare would climb up on a barrel with some encouragement but I don't really see the point. As far as a safe place goes, I think her safe place is with me when not in her own stall.

She is only 5, off the track and always learning new things. I let her do a lot of investigation - that's how every reputable horseman I've ever known has treated a young or unsure horse. There's really nothing new under the sun - just a new label or marketing technique.
 
To get away from pedestals and back to loading if a parelli trained horse was at a show it wouldn't take hours to load because if the person/owner/trainer who had the horse understood and followed the teaching and guidance given all that would have taken place before they went to the show. The mantra (lol) given on this would be "take the time it takes" and that is relevant even if the first time it takes lots of sessions of varying legnths over a period of days until the horse loaded itself or was loading happily. With if necessary lots of practice when you don't have anywhere to go.
Yes this is common sense and good horsemanship which is for the most part exactly what the system teaches. It doesn't claim to be magic or claim to have invented itself out of fresh air, it acknowledges its origins but has been put together in an easy to follow coherent format. It is trying to get people back more towards the sort of thing you were talking about doing back in your youth.
 
I have read about a third of this thread but don't have the time to read it all. Can somebody tell me whether the Whittakers have made any statement about this session?
 
pinkcatkin said:
I have read about a third of this thread but don't have the time to read it all. Can somebody tell me whether the Whittakers have made any statement about this session?
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Not as far as I know, but they have allowed the vet's report to be used in support of PP, which to me speaks volumes.
 
pinkcatkin said:
I have read about a third of this thread but don't have the time to read it all. Can somebody tell me whether the Whittakers have made any statement about this session?
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Around last Monday someone did post an apologetic response on behalf of the Whittakers. Caused a bit of controversy as their statement said they weren't watching the demo and couldnt comment on any cruelty accusations, however some of the posters who say they were at RFOH contradicted this by saying they had complained directly to Robert as they left.
 
jahseh said:
To get away from pedestals and back to loading if a parelli trained horse was at a show it wouldn't take hours to load because if the person/owner/trainer who had the horse understood and followed the teaching and guidance given all that would have taken place before they went to the show. The mantra (lol) given on this would be "take the time it takes" and that is relevant even if the first time it takes lots of sessions of varying legnths over a period of days until the horse loaded itself or was loading happily. With if necessary lots of practice when you don't have anywhere to go.
Yes this is common sense and good horsemanship which is for the most part exactly what the system teaches. It doesn't claim to be magic or claim to have invented itself out of fresh air, it acknowledges its origins but has been put together in an easy to follow coherent format. It is trying to get people back more towards the sort of thing you were talking about doing back in your youth.
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Really well written reply-I hope people have taken the time to read it........
 
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