vandypip
Well-Known Member
Pippinpie you are taking yourself far too seriously. I didn't realise that this had become a bona fida parelli thread. Or has it???
Parelli Demo on robert Whittakers stallion Stonleigh Friday 9th...Anybody else bside
- Thread starter ponydentist
- Start date
Pippinpie you are taking yourself far too seriously. I didn't realise that this had become a bona fida parelli thread. Or has it???
henryhorn
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, this is new to me, horses need a barrel/cone to relax?
I can't believe anyone really believes this guff...
I can't believe anyone really believes this guff...
dRats
Member
There is a better way
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...6795396&ref=mf
For the Good of the Horse - learn more
Oh, ABSOLUTELY the way to do it! Far away from a demo situation, so right it's boring(almost)!
Natch
Well-Known Member
*Snigger* at Parellietic
People who object to NH tend to raise this a lot - that its nothing new. 99% of those who follow NH agree with you
Even the most esteemed/hated (delete as you see fit) Mr P don't claim that it is anything new - although I think he puts a spin on it and says something along the lines of "its so old its new". Whats new is the people who don't have the skills acquired over time spent with horses. Maybe even those who haven't been fortunate to spend their life with a good old fashioned nagsman. In my opinion, NH only ever became a success because we (as a horsey nation) were in danger of losing those old skills.
Thats great, you obviously have a very good relationship and a good solid background in horse training skills, including a huge dollop of common sense. However, not everybody trains horses like you, thats why there are so many displays of tantrums, fear, naughtiness etc at shows - there are plenty of people out there who could do with being taught that there is a more sensible, kinder, more effective and less stressful way. NH is, IMO, one of the methods which could teach them that.
I agree with you, but would re-phrase it slightly
I don't see how NH compares to diets...? In my experience of slimming clubs, I start them, do reasonably well, get bored, stop going and put it back on - and repeat (incidently that is why they are still in business
). In my experience of NH, I can pick it up, get going with it and then not touch the relevant equipment for months because I'm busy riding or competing my horse - but when I go back to it, it generally takes about 15 minutes for my horse to remember the latest thing I taught him. A lot like my riding lessons - would you say riding lessons are lke slimming clubs? My horse still progresses with either method.Yes ABSOLUTELY - which is one of the reasons why there is outrage from within the parelli camp, as well as from "other" generic NH people about the catwalk incident - take the time it takes.
toffeesmarty
Well-Known Member
One of the horses on my yard used to 'choose (owners words not mine) to have his feet trimmed while standing on his circus platform. It was ridiculous watching horse with front feet on a platform while farrier trimmed the hinds on the floor and then climbing onto platform to do fronts. Owner would say 'how sweet it was'. Spare me.
rushyj
Well-Known Member
Really didn't want to bump this again but what you have said is the very core of the problem I personally have with the whole NH and Parelli format.
I feel that the above have been offered as a quick fix to experience and knowledge. So many times I have seen fabulous youngsters ruined by people without the experience or knowledge to cope who believe that NH is the way forward and a short cut to enable them to handle these animals who are totally unsuited to them.
PP knows full well that people will follow his methods they see at a demo and believe these will work on their horses at home. I just wish people will realise there is no quick fix with horses nor should there be. Do your time put the years in and get to know your horses.
Natch
Well-Known Member
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I feel one of NH's benefits is that it can benefit those who don't yet have the experience and knowledge. Its a programme which aims to build knowledge, via experience, without leaving it down to chance - just like the BHS levels and qualifications do.
Some people will always think they can handle horses which they aren't really up to - I don't think NH can be to blame for that, I just think its unfortunate that many people who are aiming above their station get all the gear, still have no idea but like to think they have. If it isn't a carrot stick and 12ft line its draw reins, grackles, flashes and god knows what bits and other gadgets - all tools which have their place, but its not in the hands of someone without enough training or experience.
All the NH, and BHS trainers I have had have all promoted safety and not trying to run before you can walk. Natural Horsemanship is not supposed to quick fix problem horses. it is just one of the many, many methods people could choose to use, and when done correctly IMO takes the time that the horse needs - just as with any other (good) method.
jahseh
Active Member
Yet again (sigh)
Parelli doesn't offer a quick fix, it is something you and your horse have to work at just the same as any other training format or system. As for the speed or lack thereof of any results; that depends on both the horse and handler.
Any variation in speed of results depends on the skill and understanding of the handler, again just as with any other system. You wouldn't expect a rider of olympic standard in dressage to need lessons and take ages to get or teach a horse to shoulder in; where a novice rider might. This doesn't prevent dressage riders giving demonstrations on how to teach any given movement it just means that those of us with less skill will have to take longer and may need extra help or tuition.
Parelli provides that help in dvd format, it's system of parelli professionals and with their savvy club. Just because people fail to seek out that help or take on only a little bit of the message is a very poor argument to stop sending out the message or providing the material.
Traditional training also has examples in abundance of people who through misunderstanding what they have seen or misjudging their level of expertise ruin or make the lives of their horses a misery. It is also very common to have horses with absolutely no manners who will barge, push run over etc. etc. because they have been loved loved loved, it is all a question of balance and education not sticking to dogma and rejecting information just because some people misunderstand or misuse that knowledge.
It is regretable that people ever stop having lessons and or seeking out more knowledge about any subject they find interesting and particularly in any hobby that involves another living being. Another saying often heard within the parelli community is "never ending self improvement" which encapsulates this philosophy.
fburton
Well-Known Member
I have often wondered... What "Level" is Pat Parelli at? And Linda?
pippinpie
Well-Known Member
Please don't try and use my own stick to beat me with.
Someone asked why some Parelli horses stand on drums/pedestals, and I gave an answer, you didn't like my answer, but why do you feel the needed to ridicule me? says a lot about you!
I've been through the BHS system many years ago, and don't tell me that when a horse has learnt something you were not told to come into the center (stand by the instructor) and very soon that horse welcomed coming into the center because it knew that that was a place of comfort/safety/a place to relax. Absolutely the same thing it's not 'guff'
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jahseh
Active Member
If the owner,farrier and horse were all happy doing it this way and it didn't cause major problems I don't understand your objection. Just because it looked different and the owner thought it was sweet how intolerent is that.
Shysmum
Well-Known Member
Did a search of "parelli images" and found these on google -
First a barrel and a VERY unhappy horse
another barrel -
but then this -
and then, and I sincerely hope this is not, this -
Like I say, just googled "Parelli Pictures" and up these came. If they are NOT, of course I'll ask admin to remove them immediately. sm x
First a barrel and a VERY unhappy horse
another barrel -
but then this -
and then, and I sincerely hope this is not, this -
Like I say, just googled "Parelli Pictures" and up these came. If they are NOT, of course I'll ask admin to remove them immediately. sm x
pippinpie
Well-Known Member
What a refreshing post
so balanced and well put, even if I wasn't Pro Parelli I would admire your dignity and eloquence in putting your views forward, I wish I had your talent.Tharg
Well-Known Member
please read the BHS response to all this under thread "BHS statement" - I think it says exactly what most of us wanted to hear from them, and is very encouraging
Hopefully they will boot them out of Stonleigh. I'm with the BHS for insurance but the fact that parelli is based there makes me worried and gets me thinking about shifting my insurance elsewhere.
Shysmum
Well-Known Member
On that thread, Naturally has just posted that the BHS ARE investigating this incident (info via Lee Hackett). So very good news
AengusOg
Well-Known Member
I disagree with this.
PNH is not designed to "build knowledge, via experience". It is aimed at total novices who seek ability without acknowledging the benefit of experience. It's a program of exercises which is meant to educate the handler and the horse simultaneously and, as such, is fundamentaly flawed...a bit like the blind leading the blind.
Anyone can buy a horse these days. There are no prerequisite conditions or criteria to be met. The only requirements are a bit of spare cash and somewhere to keep the horse. With some livery arrangements, all the owner has to do is turn up when they can. It seems that very few people realise the amount of work required to 'make' a horse, or even the importance of daily contact/work in the formation of a mutually beneficial relationship.
PNH gives people the impression that, with the purchase of DVDs, and certain items of tack and equipment, they too can be successful horse handlers and trainers and better placed to produce a horse than those experienced in so-called 'traditional' horsemanship. Indeed, many PNH adherents seem to think that, after a few months of a PNH 'education', they can teach all and sundry about horsemanship. Any program which gives its purchasers this illusion is, in my opinion, at best inept, and at worst dangerously irresponsible.
If that's not inviting people to aim 'above their station get all the gear, still have no idea but like to think they have', I can't imagine what you mean by that statement.
If 'Natural Horsemanship is not supposed to quick fix problem horses', a statement with which I do agree, incidently, why did PP choose to attempt this with 'Catwalk'?
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siennamum
Well-Known Member
*Snigger* at Parellietic
People who object to NH tend to raise this a lot - that its nothing new. 99% of those who follow NH agree with you
Whats new is the people who don't have the skills acquired over time spent with horses. Maybe even those who haven't been fortunate to spend their life with a good old fashioned nagsman. In my opinion, NH only ever became a success because we (as a horsey nation) were in danger of losing those old skills.
.
I'm sorry Naturally, but I think you have just encapsulated the problem with most forms of NH for me.
I know there is nothing new in most of what is being promoted. I've been doing these common sense things for decades.
Most practitioners of NH absolutely assert not only that they are doing something different, something better, they denigrate traditional forms of horsemanship. A PP defender said on this thread that I, and those like me, are of the 'kick it on' school of horsemanship.
Which is it? Is it the 'kick it on' school or is it 'so old it's new'? You really can't have it both ways. Criticising traditional horsemanship on the one hand but claiming to be adopting old fashioned methods on the other.
It seems to me that the best bits of NH are those taken from traditional, common sense methods and the bits that are utter nonsense are the smoke and mirrors bits which are there to persuade the gullible not to just get some proper lessons. Although I agree that these systems are of use for those people who have no horse sense, actually the best way to get some horse sense is just to spend the next 5 years around horses at every opportunity, not assume you can get there in a month from DVDs.(and then sneer at anyone who has spent the last 10 years around horses)
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
Is that last photo so bad? We don't know what's happening, but to me it looks as if the horse has just got the rope around it's legs and the person on the end is waiting to see if the horse can sort it out. The horse isn't panicking (if it was it would be different). I like my horses to be OK with a bit of rope around the leg to be honest. I'd rather they stop and try to sort it out for themselves rather than panic. Very good practise for legs in wire and similar accidents. I suppose many people would panic and throw themselves down to unwind a rope if it gets between or around their horses legs, I don't, I just quietly wait and watch them work it out. If they get upset I can always drop the rope and help them. They don't though.
It's funny when I have visitors sometimes "Oh! Quick! He's stood on his rope!". "Oh yes, so he has...".
It's funny when I have visitors sometimes "Oh! Quick! He's stood on his rope!". "Oh yes, so he has...".
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
"Most practitioners of NH absolutely assert not only that they are doing something different, something better, they denigrate traditional forms of horsemanship."
To be fair, "It's so old it's new" is one of Parelli's catchphrases. Monty Roberts claims to have invented something new.
To be fair, "It's so old it's new" is one of Parelli's catchphrases. Monty Roberts claims to have invented something new.
Shysmum
Well-Known Member
sorry, but it looks - wrong !! So very wrong, on so many levels...
vandypip
Well-Known Member
Doing tricks like this, you know he really should enter the film business instead of conning mere mortals out of thousands. Of course he's accidently the wrapped the rope round the horses legs silly billy!!
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Tinypony
Well-Known Member
Maybe you don't do any work with ropes around your horse's legs. It's not very "British", but is an excellent safety precaution with any horse. When you are working with ropes low on a horse's legs they sometimes turn away from you as they feel the rope, and the result looks just like that photo. It's not a circus trick, it's training. If Parelli wanted to lift or control the leg with the rope he wouldn't have it in that position, because it wouldn't be effective.
I may be a silly billy, but my horses are very cool about getting their legs tangled in things.
I may be a silly billy, but my horses are very cool about getting their legs tangled in things.
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
See? That's what gets this forum it's dodgy reputation. You try to have a sensible conversation with people and get sarky comments thrown at you. Good job I couldn't give a...
vandypip
Well-Known Member
Fair comment Tiny pony but you can bet your bottom dollar that this display of rope useage originates from throwing horses, guilt maybe??? lets play a game with it!!! my horses are ok with ropes around their legs too. And plastic bags, kids toys, dogs etc etc.See? That's what gets this forum it's dodgy reputation. You try to have a sensible conversation with people and get sarky comments thrown at you. Good job I couldn't give a...
siennamum
Well-Known Member
No, I do agree with you Tinypony. When long reining I often allow the rein below the hocks & generally don't stress if they tread on the rope, or get it tangled. They will learn that it is not an issue.
Ideally if they tangled up they won't panic & if they can't free themselves, they will wait for someone to sort it out for them calmly. I wouldn't contrive to wrap the rope around their legs, but am not paranoid if they do get in a muddle. Traditional horsesense is to use a tail bandage or similar to pick up feet, run up and down legs etc. to accostom the horse to having stuff round their legs/done to their legs. We have similar sessions with the hose.
Again NH borrowing from us 'kick it on' brigade...=)
Ideally if they tangled up they won't panic & if they can't free themselves, they will wait for someone to sort it out for them calmly. I wouldn't contrive to wrap the rope around their legs, but am not paranoid if they do get in a muddle. Traditional horsesense is to use a tail bandage or similar to pick up feet, run up and down legs etc. to accostom the horse to having stuff round their legs/done to their legs. We have similar sessions with the hose.
Again NH borrowing from us 'kick it on' brigade...=)
Shysmum
Well-Known Member
http://central.parellinaturalhorset...-soldier-and-a-shop-assistant-have-in-common/
is this what you mean ?? Had to do a double take when I saw this.... the plot really does thicken, as this is the BHS place.
So you're right in asking the question.....how many BHS supporters will support this ?? And how does this affect the investigation ?
is this what you mean ?? Had to do a double take when I saw this.... the plot really does thicken, as this is the BHS place.
So you're right in asking the question.....how many BHS supporters will support this ?? And how does this affect the investigation ?
jahseh
Active Member
QUOTE=siennamum;8751716]
It seems to me that the best bits of NH are those taken from traditional, common sense methods and the bits that are utter nonsense are the smoke and mirrors bits which are there to persuade the gullible not to just get some proper lessons. Although I agree that these systems are of use for those people who have no horse sense, actually the best way to get some horse sense is just to spend the next 5 years around horses at every opportunity, not assume you can get there in a month from DVDs.(and then sneer at anyone who has spent the last 10 years around horses)
Again
Nobody claims that a novice can get there in a month and definitely not purely from dvd's anymore than you could practice all the techniques and expertise in any number of the books on horse training that have been published when you don't have the practical skills necessary.
The system provides both ways to check your own progress and or the ability to have a third party check that progress for you. Many people learn from seeing much better than from reading and some concepts are just easier to explain visually. Yet other people learn best when they do, the best methods of teaching encapsulate all of that and more, however that doesn't stop any one method being offered and being successful in isolation.
Horse sense is not necessarily granted just because you are around horses for a given number of years. I and I am sure plenty of others have seen lots of examples of people with lots of experience doing lots of silly things (for example drop or grackle nose bands fitted so low they cover the soft part of the horses nostrils and so prevent the nasal passages flaring other than at the ends. Try placing your fingers gently on the soft bits of your own nose and then try and breathe deeply)
Nor does having horse sense mean you know it all and can't acquire more, horse sense does not have a finite limit as far as I know.
Additionally if you spent any number of years with horses and had no examples of others working with them, no one to offer advice and no tuition unless you were very lucky, clever, physically fit, had excellent observational skills, wonderful coordination and many other qualities you would be highly likely to make lots of mistakes and hurt yourself and or the horse in the process of acquiring that sense.
I have worked with horses having qualified through the BHS for many years but have found some new concepts, tips and techniques within the Parelli system. Some of these I find very enlightening others of less use. To dismiss a body of knowledge just because you already have horse sense makes no sense.
It seems to me that the best bits of NH are those taken from traditional, common sense methods and the bits that are utter nonsense are the smoke and mirrors bits which are there to persuade the gullible not to just get some proper lessons. Although I agree that these systems are of use for those people who have no horse sense, actually the best way to get some horse sense is just to spend the next 5 years around horses at every opportunity, not assume you can get there in a month from DVDs.(and then sneer at anyone who has spent the last 10 years around horses)
Again
Nobody claims that a novice can get there in a month and definitely not purely from dvd's anymore than you could practice all the techniques and expertise in any number of the books on horse training that have been published when you don't have the practical skills necessary.
The system provides both ways to check your own progress and or the ability to have a third party check that progress for you. Many people learn from seeing much better than from reading and some concepts are just easier to explain visually. Yet other people learn best when they do, the best methods of teaching encapsulate all of that and more, however that doesn't stop any one method being offered and being successful in isolation.
Horse sense is not necessarily granted just because you are around horses for a given number of years. I and I am sure plenty of others have seen lots of examples of people with lots of experience doing lots of silly things (for example drop or grackle nose bands fitted so low they cover the soft part of the horses nostrils and so prevent the nasal passages flaring other than at the ends. Try placing your fingers gently on the soft bits of your own nose and then try and breathe deeply)
Nor does having horse sense mean you know it all and can't acquire more, horse sense does not have a finite limit as far as I know.
Additionally if you spent any number of years with horses and had no examples of others working with them, no one to offer advice and no tuition unless you were very lucky, clever, physically fit, had excellent observational skills, wonderful coordination and many other qualities you would be highly likely to make lots of mistakes and hurt yourself and or the horse in the process of acquiring that sense.
I have worked with horses having qualified through the BHS for many years but have found some new concepts, tips and techniques within the Parelli system. Some of these I find very enlightening others of less use. To dismiss a body of knowledge just because you already have horse sense makes no sense.
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naturalned
New User
Hi all,
I went to the Parelli demo on the Friday and saw a beautiful horse brought to its knees by so-called NH.
I am an NH fan and have developed my own style based on using diff trainers, reading, practising, listening and watching my own and other horses and working on my own confidence through hypnosis etc etc.
Anyway I was pretty distressed at what I saw last week, what a wonderful stallion and what a shame he was subjected to that sort of behaviour. For reference I completely concur with the previous outlines of what happened throughout the demo.
I went to the demo with an open mind and the thought of learning something else from someone else having never really encountered Parelli before. I have to say disappointed and shocked do not describe my feelings strongly enough (but politeness wins). If this is what people think NH is then god help those of it who claim to use it.
What I saw was a classic case of PP not wanting to show that he needed more time. When will these practioners learn that patience and time are the two biggest requirements in NH (similar experience at Monty demo).
I have to say I do spend time doing crazy things with barrels and big balls but largely because my old gelding can't really be ridden anymore and it keeps him physically and mentally better than if I lunged him round and round day after day. However anything I do I maintain a level of extreme patience, do not fix a time I must be finished by and always, always end on a positive when the horse and I feel good about what we have achieved (which by the way may simply be having a nice time together and may only have been 5 mins).
Apart from the obvious distress of the horse which upset me what I found the most annoying was the patronising tone of PP when he said at the end one of the most important things was 'for the horse to respect you but keep his dignity at all times'. There was no way that Stallion kept its dignity esp when it was on three legs, calling for other horses at the door. I was, and remain disgusted at PP.
So this begs the question what did I learn from this demo - I've thought long and hard about this.
Know when to stop.
If PP had stopped when he got his hands over its ears I would have had much more respect for his method. The only result of any interaction with a horse should be a good result and this episode was not.
Anyway I'll get off my high horse now and thank those people who have recognised that not all NH people follow the so - called cult, but that like many other horse owners whatever methods we practice or believe in, we simply want to share in the wonder of being with such beautiful animals.
Love to Catwalk, may happier times be round the corner.
NN
I went to the Parelli demo on the Friday and saw a beautiful horse brought to its knees by so-called NH.
I am an NH fan and have developed my own style based on using diff trainers, reading, practising, listening and watching my own and other horses and working on my own confidence through hypnosis etc etc.
Anyway I was pretty distressed at what I saw last week, what a wonderful stallion and what a shame he was subjected to that sort of behaviour. For reference I completely concur with the previous outlines of what happened throughout the demo.
I went to the demo with an open mind and the thought of learning something else from someone else having never really encountered Parelli before. I have to say disappointed and shocked do not describe my feelings strongly enough (but politeness wins). If this is what people think NH is then god help those of it who claim to use it.
What I saw was a classic case of PP not wanting to show that he needed more time. When will these practioners learn that patience and time are the two biggest requirements in NH (similar experience at Monty demo).
I have to say I do spend time doing crazy things with barrels and big balls but largely because my old gelding can't really be ridden anymore and it keeps him physically and mentally better than if I lunged him round and round day after day. However anything I do I maintain a level of extreme patience, do not fix a time I must be finished by and always, always end on a positive when the horse and I feel good about what we have achieved (which by the way may simply be having a nice time together and may only have been 5 mins).
Apart from the obvious distress of the horse which upset me what I found the most annoying was the patronising tone of PP when he said at the end one of the most important things was 'for the horse to respect you but keep his dignity at all times'. There was no way that Stallion kept its dignity esp when it was on three legs, calling for other horses at the door. I was, and remain disgusted at PP.
So this begs the question what did I learn from this demo - I've thought long and hard about this.
Know when to stop.
If PP had stopped when he got his hands over its ears I would have had much more respect for his method. The only result of any interaction with a horse should be a good result and this episode was not.
Anyway I'll get off my high horse now and thank those people who have recognised that not all NH people follow the so - called cult, but that like many other horse owners whatever methods we practice or believe in, we simply want to share in the wonder of being with such beautiful animals.
Love to Catwalk, may happier times be round the corner.
NN
siennamum
Well-Known Member
You see that's another thing which irritates me about some NH practitioners. They make grand sweeping assumptions.
You are implying that 'traditional' people stop learning, or are closed to new ideas. Earlier in the annals of this thread, we were classified as being in a box. It's very rude & really stupid, almost everyone I know has lessons. Most people moan about how much they don't know, the only people I know who claim to have all the answers and who seem stuck in a rut are in fact some NH people. They patronise us by assuming we all have our flash straps too low and assume that we also don't pick and chose from different types of trainer.
I have lots of different trainers and learn from different media, amongst others I have Tim Stockdale on DVD and Reine Klimke in a book, so what is your point exactly?
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
Surely most of you can understand that these nh style trainers aren't borrowing anything from the "kick on brigade" - if you want to call yourselves that? Just as horsemanship in this country comes from a long line of tradition, so does the sort of work you see with the nh trainers who are well-known today. Nobody is borrowing from anybody, it's just the way it is, horsemanship passed on down the generations. Parelli owes a lot more to people like the Dorrance brothers than anything done in this country, because that is what he was exposed to when he was young. I owe a lot of what I use to my traditional riding-school days, and I've built on that, and changed it in quite a lot of ways based on what I've learnt since.
And no, wrapping a leg with a rope isn't really a preparation for a game. Well, it might be in Parelli but I don't think so. It's just desensitisation and habituation. If it's preparation for anything it would probably be hobbling. Which I haven't felt the need to do.
I can't help thinking that it's one thing to be outraged at what appears to have been some very shoddy treatment of a horse. It's another when a large number of people on a forum decide they are anti everything to do with another branch of training, and even too close-minded to allow that anything that offers might be useful. (I'm talking about the huge range of nh training now, not Parelli specifically). I'm shocked that so many of you are obviously quite young, probably much younger than me, but so quick to dismiss ideas that are different. Parelli has arguably given this style of horsemanship some bad press in this last week, but babies and bathwater... there are many very good horsemen that come into this category who have a lot to offer, with not a "circus game" in sight.
I'll edit that to say that not everyone is coming across as close-minded, but the p*ss takers are I think. That's a shame, because we can all be so friendly to each other on the topics they like.
And no, wrapping a leg with a rope isn't really a preparation for a game. Well, it might be in Parelli but I don't think so. It's just desensitisation and habituation. If it's preparation for anything it would probably be hobbling. Which I haven't felt the need to do.
I can't help thinking that it's one thing to be outraged at what appears to have been some very shoddy treatment of a horse. It's another when a large number of people on a forum decide they are anti everything to do with another branch of training, and even too close-minded to allow that anything that offers might be useful. (I'm talking about the huge range of nh training now, not Parelli specifically). I'm shocked that so many of you are obviously quite young, probably much younger than me, but so quick to dismiss ideas that are different. Parelli has arguably given this style of horsemanship some bad press in this last week, but babies and bathwater... there are many very good horsemen that come into this category who have a lot to offer, with not a "circus game" in sight.
I'll edit that to say that not everyone is coming across as close-minded, but the p*ss takers are I think. That's a shame, because we can all be so friendly to each other on the topics they like.
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