Parelli Demo on robert Whittakers stallion Stonleigh Friday 9th...Anybody else bside

Ooohh I might have a little Gin !

This is vile - as much as I want to see this footage ... I Kinda don't joind the FB group in quiet anticipation!
 
Binky01 said:
I like you :) [In a non-gay way!]

That's my exact point to my first original post on this thread. You're similar to what I beleive, some parts I'll use because it'scommon sense and it works...but not brain washed into the whole hog of things and DO actually see right and wrong with technques and don't just follow it like a religious trend!

No answers have still been put to my questions I asked repeated times as I was genuinely trying to understand the reasoning behind his methods mentioned here. All my questions were posted twice, and surely, rather than being slated on how 'narrow minded' we are on their FB page, one of them could have spread the Parelli love and enlightened me on what exactly Pat was doing instead? It's all fine saying 'they just don't understand' and 'bad reading' etc...but why not explain what was going on then if it's nothing that bad or out of rationality for the horse? Does that mean they do not know why he actually did this if not one person, out of all of them commenting on that status, can reply to any of the genuine questions on here?

You learn more through questioning....not following blindlessly. How many people when growing up at yards were told to do things, did them,and then wondered the meaning of them and actually questioned it? [Leading a horse from the left, not walking behind it unaware, not running up to them, red ribbons, not putting the safety clip on your stirrups, etc etc etc]

Answers on a post card please! :)
Click to expand...

They won't let you in on the secret until you have handed over your hard earned cash silly!

Don't want to worry anyone, but I have just learnt that Parelli have just had an NVQ qualification approved by LANTRA :eek:
 
Tongue-n-cheek, thank you for taking the time to post. I think it IS a shame, but NH seems to have turned a full circle from when it first started, and pat and linda's morals and aims have been swayed by money and branding.
May I take this oportunity to draw a comparison, like the techniques or not, Intelligent Horsemanship is a non-profit organisiation, and personally I feel NH could learn from this as it seems their basic philosophy has remained the same through it's developement, with no money to sway their goals etc as an organisation. I'm in no way saying I am pro or anti either, although previous posts may make my views clear.
I think the very early values NH portrayed were good, and think it may be of benefit for pat and linda to review these and realise once more why they set out to build this empire, I hope it was for the love of horses and the will for people to succeed and have fun.
Had pat admitted at the time that the horse needed more time, and not force or whatever else he needed, rather than feeling pressured to deal with it quickly using force for the sake of one demo, the horse world would have had far greater respect for him in my opinion.
After all, no body ever knows everything, and we can all be stumped by some things and take a while to figure them out without resorting to force.
I hope these people can remember what compelled them to start this venture all those years ago, and if they were honourable, go back to them, it isn't too late to make good of NH, but defending this incident may result in an even greater loss of respect for them.
It would take a big man to admit he was wrong to those who look up to him, I will reserve judgement until I see the video, or if I do, but Pat, you know whether your actions were right or not.

Hope this makes sense, writing this out on a phone isn't ideal :)
 
intouch said:
So long as you watch this the whole way through!! 5 mins in the buck stopper compared to seriously hurting someone or ending up in the factory. No contest, in my view.
I can't see it as being worse than many of the other contraptions that are used daily in horses' mouths. (I know - no one on here has dreadful hands or uses evil bits...)
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this one, I don't see it as barbaric at all, like you said people put far worse things in horses mouths everyday.
 
The tying of the foreleg and forcing a horse down is the old school way of backing or should I say breaking (literally) a horse in.

:(
 
will continue to fail to understand why people think it is a great idea to subject their horses to these spectacles - taking a horse out of his safe environment, subjecting them to a new handler, lights, music, crowds, and then persisting in trying to teach it something new just goes beyond my comprehension.

If you have a problem then get someone out, whether that be a nagsman or a NH fanatic or anything in between, and work on the horse in the environment where you, the owner/rider, will have to carry out whatever it is you are trying to improve.

The whole *doing it for the audience* thing will never sit well with me.

Just as Weezy said, i totally agree with this.


If what people are saying did happen I think its disgusting.
Parelli has never sat well with me
 
"May I take this oportunity to draw a comparison, like the techniques or not, Intelligent Horsemanship is a non-profit organisiation, and personally I feel NH could learn from this as it seems their basic philosophy has remained the same through it's developement, with no money to sway their goals etc as an organisation."


"Had pat admitted at the time that the horse needed more time, and not force or whatever else he needed, rather than feeling pressured to deal with it quickly using force for the sake of one demo, the horse world would have had far greater respect for him in my opinion." - Unfortunately, that is exactly what I thought after seeing a demo by Kelly Marks.
 
CracklinRosie said:
That is barbaric, how can this claim to be "natural"?
Click to expand...
Oh purleese. Riding is not natural, so the buckstopper can't possibly be natural. I don't agree it's barbaric; if I were on a bucker I'd yank it's head up in the interests of self-preservation; probably far more damaging than the buckstopper. I liked the video.
But then I do have a stick up my *something*
 
Thank you for the warm welcome. i honestly wish I could take credit for this, but I have been chased by parelli police before, not fun. And they are not whom you would think they would be so just let that one leave your head for speculation as I cannot comment on that either. You would be surpirsed.....flat out BL00DY (is bl00dy cusing on here?)shocked if you knew how many members do NOT/will NOT support or stand up for this kind of thing. and I think parelli corporation will be too when push comes to shove.

Let me say that I may as well be a share holder, they have ALOT of my money, and to be honest, that is a drop in the bucket compared to some.
and he owes me no explanation. you can believe I want one, but I am not entitled to it. it would be in his companies best intrest to give one. but entitlement, think again.

If I saw you do something I dont' agree with, do you feel I am entitled to an explanation? NO. this is where people go so wrong. entitlement. he feels entitled to do as he so pleases, your entitled to your opinion of it, and says your opinion of him is none of his business. how do you think that entitlement is working out for HIM? nothing more than sheer arrogance. try looking that up in the dictionary!

this last year, things have gone south and fast. i would say for some it is like a religion, others more like a pyrimid scheme (newest endeavors), but genuinely for most is is simply horsemanship. nothing more. I understand where you are coming from though, as from the outside, it certainly DOES appear that way, and sadly new things are causing it to appear that way from the inside too. Someone asked how many members, I don't know exactly, not even a ball park really, though I did ask once and it was somewhere around 30k actual club members, not including those who study but not members. I hate the way it is all going, and will likely be getting out soon. with me I will take my knowlege, and opinions, and freedom of free speach. Please don't let the few, spoil your view of the many. I can't speak much about me personally as I am very well known there, and would rat myself out in a heartbeat, but the program does work, and works faster the higher your IQ;). Most of you here, have had formal training, I asume, lots of lessons and such, and have been taught "commo sense". but there are so many people who are isolated, and get in way over thier heads. Parelli helps them understand thier horse and be safe. sure many don't ride, but what is wrong with that. do they have to be like YOU for it to be right? they love thier horse, and are learning amazing things, ON THIER OWN. you have to give those people props. horses are far from common sense. it only seems that way to you because you have had someone teach you. then there are others like my self, who spent thousands of dollars with international dressage judges and got no farther than nearly getting killed doing what he suggested. (minus personal history that is good reading but well known) when i found parelli, i learned all the secrets to horses that even olympians don't know. there is good and bad on both sides of the fence. PERIOD. I have seen young girls, teenagers teaching thier horses high level dresagge on mustangs, in thier back yard. alone. i know it isnt classical, but my god, how can you really deny that it is good and call it common sense. the spanish walk is anything but common sense and little kids are learning it from books and dvd's.

this is all so sad. i have defended against proposed greed for many years, but it didn't used to be like this. now it is becoming the way, many have accused it of being for so long. doesn't make them right, because back then it WAS different. now, i just don't know. I have my suspicions, as do many other long time students. if they keep this up, we will look like a bunch of rats jumping off a sinking ship.
 
Last edited:
Again, thank you tongue-n-cheek. I think the whole payment scheme doesn't sit well with a lot of us, it is incredibly expensive and it does appear to be a huge money making scheme. Let's face it, the Parellis are laughing all the way to the bank, and I think this has clouded their views somewhat - if they REALLY wanted to pass their views and training on to the general public, if they REALLY only had horses interests at heart, then they wouldn't be charging thousands of dollars for the privilege.
 
Tongue in cheek I would also like to applaud you for two thought provoking and intelligent posts. It must be a bitter pill for you to swallow, seeing the man who started it all going against everything you stand for the way he has and I am sorry for that.

It is refreshing to read a post from a Parelli person that does not tell us all that we are all doing it wrong, only yesterday we had one tell us that we were all dinosaurs and that in time Parelli would be the only training method used. This particular person had the previous week asked us all for advice when her 5yo chased her out of the round pen!
 
PapaFrita said:
Oh purleese. Riding is not natural, so the buckstopper can't possibly be natural. I don't agree it's barbaric; if I were on a bucker I'd yank it's head up in the interests of self-preservation; probably far more damaging than the buckstopper. I liked the video.
But then I do have a stick up my *something*
Click to expand...

I don't remember saying riding was natural.

Horses, generally, buck for a reason and putting a thin bit of string in their mouth to deter thm is barbaric IMO. You yanking on a horses mouth is bad enough but compare your strength in kilos to a horses! No comparison!

Maybe you'd be better wedging the stick in your mouth and giving it a good old yank!
 
Tinypony said:
"May I take this oportunity to draw a comparison, like the techniques or not, Intelligent Horsemanship is a non-profit organisiation, and personally I feel NH could learn from this as it seems their basic philosophy has remained the same through it's developement, with no money to sway their goals etc as an organisation."


"Had pat admitted at the time that the horse needed more time, and not force or whatever else he needed, rather than feeling pressured to deal with it quickly using force for the sake of one demo, the horse world would have had far greater respect for him in my opinion." - Unfortunately, that is exactly what I thought after seeing a demo by Kelly Marks.
Click to expand...

That's a shame, like I say, I'm not saying I'm pro or anti either of them.
But it's disappointing to see somebody you believed to be great not live up to those expectations.
I also think it's easy to feel these people know everything, and when they don't people often ask why not? (Not aimed at you btw, just generally)
I think we need to remember that these people are human, and while I in no uncertain terms condone force or mechanics, maybe we should expect less and not be disappointed (although many, me included, expect little in terms of the effectiveness of these methods)
For my part, this incedent has confirmed my suspicions that the intentions of PNH are no longer for the good of the horse.
 
Tongue in cheek, as you exit the Parelli camp you will be following a well-trodden path. For me it was watching Pat teach a group of Level 2 students in the UK many years back, I realised that there was nothing he was doing that I wanted to learn. The good aspects of PNH, and the better trainers who didn't quite fit the mould (and there are some good trainers) kept me in for a while longer, but when you've decided that you'd never let the person at the top take your horse's rope, what's the point?
 
Not everything is as it seems from the outside. but Pat and Linda do not own a large portion of the company, to my understanding. as a corporation, his name may be on the building, but that doesn't mean he runs things. not saying he doesn't run them, just saying, you never know what goes on behind closed doors.

also want to add, as a student, what he did with catwalk has no effect on my horsemanship. none what so ever. I however do see it as damaging to the parelli instructors, and stock holders. it does directly effect them, which is why I will not go thru with being an instructor if this sort of thing continues.

there is alot more to the story of course, and I do agree HAD he explained upfront that one session was NOT going to be enough, he could have back off sooner and not "lost face". parelli students are begging for an explanation too, and it would be educational for us to give one. I will also say, on the someone trying to go home and do it, we are smart enough to know we don't have that kind of savvy, be it a good technique or bad one. the programe teaches, ironically, good judgment, and a do what I say, not what I do kinda mantra. so that is why student cannot tell you WHY he did it. we flat out don't know.

I for one, as a parelli student, would not judge him if he said he made a mistake. but it is not the students that is the concerne here is it. in many ways, it is now a catch 22, danged if you do, danged if you don't.
 
Keltic said:
From what ive read on another forum for his grand finale he lasooed the poor horse!!

It seems that this incident was viewed with disgust by so many people.....

Surely someone needs to do something NOW!! RSPCA??? WHW??? BHS??

to read an almost identical description of this abuse

http://horsegossip.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=53189&page=1
Click to expand...

If a bunch of travellers were messing about like this at Appleby then the RSPCA would be all over them.
Linda P parades around bareback with a carrot stick and it's called Natural horsemanship.
A young lad rides a cob bareback down the flash road with a (non-conforming)stick and they call it cruelty.

Good horsemanship is just that whatever the rider. Idiocy the same.
 
i would love to be able to tell you my story, or point you to my videos, if only to see that not all of us are stupid or blind. I would love to be able, as a friend btw, brag about my recent acomplishment with my new horse. or of my many other experiences. as a person truly proud of all that I have learned.

I can say that some things don't always look nice, but are good for the horse in the end. this of course would be the extreme example of both ends, i hope it has an extremely good outcome. I for one wouldnt' do it if I could.

i hope you guus CAN see that I see your point of view, and am here to share with you that many of us on this side see yours.

I supose if I leave the campgrounds, thre may already be a well trodden path, although, who knows I may be the trail blazer.:cool:
 
CracklinRosie said:
I don't remember saying riding was natural.

Horses, generally, buck for a reason and putting a thin bit of string in their mouth to deter thm is barbaric IMO. You yanking on a horses mouth is bad enough but compare your strength in kilos to a horses! No comparison!

Maybe you'd be better wedging the stick in your mouth and giving it a good old yank!
Click to expand...
Umm, I believe the implication was that the stick was up my bottom. However, that's not the point. I still don't believe Monty's video was barbaric. Having ridden a serious bucker who buried me on more than one occasion I would've used the buckstopper in an instant.
 
Um.... slightly off topic... for all of you who have waded through pages and pages to get this far.... please go to your User CP and change your page settings to allow 40 posts per page...("Edit Options") then you'll find it's only 6 pages long!! :)
 
Im not into Parelli so dont normally read any posts but seeing the length of this one have had a quick look. Im shocked :eek::eek:
All I can say is if they do things like this in public, what happens behind closed doors! The one of the half blind horse was enough. :mad:
 
tongue~n~cheek said:
............ Most of you here, have had formal training, I asume, lots of lessons and such, and have been taught "commo sense". but there are so many people who are isolated, and get in way over thier heads. Parelli helps them understand thier horse and be safe. sure many don't ride, but what is wrong with that. do they have to be like YOU for it to be right? they love thier horse, and are learning amazing things, ON THIER OWN. you have to give those people props. horses are far from common sense. it only seems that way to you because you have had someone teach you. then there are others like my self, who spent thousands of dollars with international dressage judges and got no farther than nearly getting killed doing what he suggested. (minus personal history that is good reading but well known) when i found parelli, i learned all the secrets to horses that even olympians don't know. there is good and bad on both sides of the fence. PERIOD. I have seen young girls, teenagers teaching thier horses high level dresagge on mustangs, in thier back yard. alone. i know it isnt classical, but my god, how can you really deny that it is good and call it common sense. the spanish walk is anything but common sense and little kids are learning it from books and dvd's...............
Click to expand...

Well said TnC. All your posts have given non PHN's a good insight to the wonderful side of PNH and I agree that things don't look good from the outside!
Keep up the good work with the wild one ;-)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top