Parelli = Horse-Man-Sh*T

I have done 4 of the parelli programs.

Without going into a total rant, this is the exact reason most people think its a great idea, do it, and end up abusing their horses. It does not teach them horsemanship.

When i did it, i took the useful parts and did what i chose. I got just as good results.

The 'method' she is using is wrong. You are supposed to use fingers - fist - elbow - shoulder. The horse was tense when she started, clearly showing problems beforehand. She went straight to an elbow 'wiggle' and then shoulder.
She then tried to use other parts of the program you should not do if the horse hasnt responded/learned the before steps.

Yet again she is doing this. Have seen it before. She does not have talent with the young or 'non parelli' horses. Its disgusting to watch.
 
People want a "quick fix" to a problem. Only by understanding the true psyche of the horse will you ever be able to work with a horse effectively. Sadly many of us do but dont "listen" to what our horses are saying.

Be true to yourself and your horse. Don't be influenced by the masses. If it dont feel right, dont do it!
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Not sure what she's trying to achieve
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Apologies for all these posts in a row, but this has made my blood boil.

What she was hoping to achieve: well, knowing a little about NH and parelli i'd say the following:

"Wiggle Wiggle, Bump"

Trying to stop the horse walking off, bump was to add emphasis. She says "Jumping Jack, do whatever you have to do" when the horse turns and walks into her, because she teaches that these things stop your horse from walking through your personal space. As you can see, she was highly effective
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Then she smacks horse on the bum with the other end of the rope, and attempts to get him to disengage (turn bum away, a method of stopping) through body language and hitting his/her bum with the rope. Said rope has leather poppers ont he end for a snap sound when hit against the ground: also acts like a whip when used on skin.

When horse disengages, he immediately walks forwards into linda, so she goes from disengage signal to waving rope in his face to try to get him to keep out. However, I don't think this horse has learnt much of the parelli signals yet, as he.she appears really confused, hence the continual movement.

In trying to get the horse to stand still she continuously uses a phase 4 or so (out of 5) meaning horse hasn't got a chance to respond to a gentler ask. When horse doesn't respond because he doesn't understand, she goes higher phases.

"This is where you need to watch that I don't hit you"

Horse has stood still, but is looking elsewhere. Linda yanks on rope to attempt to get him to look at her. Most NH people do use a bump to attract a horse's attention, but on a much much lower scale than this. She completely fails to get his attention.

She's using all her body weight to yank him but its not working because the intention isn't really there. She's yelling but in the way a mother yells absent mindedly at kids playing up, not really expecting them to respond.

She draws him in tighter and tighter circles in another attempt to disengage him, them throws the rope around in an attempt to get him back out of her space - yet she's just put him there.

Yank yank yank, wave her hand in his face, yet when he does move away she's instantly at him to move another way. poor horse can't win.

She later does let him rest, but goes from phase 1 to phase 5 with nothing in between when he dares go to move. Another confusing tactic, and won't achieve softness and harmony.

All the while she's working him he's got his neck set on backwards in fear: what a great way to build muscles.
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This isn't about training horses this is about making money. Just like pro dressage riders, race trainers etc etc. There are some good ones but just as many to whom the horse is a machine for their own ends. I keep an open mind. I think there are many good natural horsemanship techniques that many 'traditional' folk use day in day out - same technique just rebranded.

I really am at a loss with this. My impression was that she was loseing it with this horse but trying to keep a facade of being in control and training him, while she just wanted to give him a good hiding out of temper.
 
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When she smacks the horse on the face to make it turn away at the end, that would be the Driving Game.

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Wow I never expected 'smack in the face' and 'game' to be in the same sentence.
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I did not like watching that. Anyone who thinks that is the better/only way is deranged.

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Totally agree,really made me uneasy.IF ever even THOUGHT about doing parelli this has definitely put me off.
WTF is she doing!!??
Watched a demo on utube of Richard Maxwell.What a difference.He was calm throughout no flapping of rope or hands and explained what and why.
 
I think we need to stop regarding Parelli as the latest fad. If I remember correctly, the first Parelli clinic in the UK was in 1997, with Pat P teaching. Ross Simpson was riding on it, he later went on to become the first UK instructor and start the first Parelli agency. So it's not a new fad.
I can understand why people become students, I did so myself. I can't understand why they then shut themselves in their Parelli world and don't look outside (this applies to students of other teachers I can think of).
I think all this talk of "disrespect" with horses is just a way of persuading people that it's OK to attack a horse like this, because they somehow need to learn their place. I feel it's a dangerous word to use because it somehow encourages people to think that the horse is relating to them in the same way a person might.
 
When a horse is held, the focus of attention must be on the person holding it. It must follow the lead from that person.This horse has the attention span of a goldfish!Horses like this suddenly get an idea in their head and the next moment,you have hoofprints on your back.
 
mmmmmmmmm ok....

now turn that horse out in a field and go and try and catch it love!
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Poor horse, I think there are some techniques of natural horsemanship that work and some that dont............ this approach to it really does not appeal to me in the slightest it much more resembles abuse as the horse had no escape, responded as any frightened animal would, and then was punished for it.......... well what is she expecting it to do?! Sit down and roll over?!!?!?!

I agree with many of the above posts that if done to a less amenable horse she most probably would have had 2 front feet straight in the face more than once....... its a horse, a herd animal, OF COURSE its going to look round, its look for the next thing to WACK IT ROUND THE HEAD WITH A METAL CLIP!!!!!!!!!!!
gah!
 
LOL @ Naturally. Yep you go hun! Feel free. My blood boiled over this stuff long time ago. Just had to walk away in the end. Slowly people will start to see sense. From what I understand, peeps in the States have already started that process which is why they are in UK so much these days. One day they will go back to their ranch in USA and hopefully be forgotten. Sadly there is a lot of damage they are doing in the process.

Who in their right minds produces a series of DVD's / videos / handbooks and says "go play with that unsupervised" (!)

Without understanding the BASICS of horse psycology it is just a way for them to print money and just horrific to think of all those poor damaged horses out there.
 
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It's all very well some people saying 'some' practitioners are not good, but this is , apparently, Linda herself. In Nature, a horse constatntly looks aound for safeyl reasons. This horse did not look disrespectful at all, and I am disgusted by the treatment it received.
 
Mike 007, yes the horse needs to have it's attention on it's handler for safety, and it also needs to allow the handler some space. However, there are perfectly reasonable ways of getting that attention without smacking it round the face with a metal clip. Have you ever seen Mark Rashid in action?
I also think this horse gets worse because it simply becomes afraid because of the way it's being treated. A lot of horses come forward when they are scared, I've got one.
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Just to add, I wouldn't label any trainer as good or not. Words like fair, sensitive, sympathetic maybe.
I do think that people need to realise that, when applied by people like Pat and Linda, this approach actually does give the results they want every time, with every horse. Physically anyway, mentally is another question. Would Linda then have problems catching this horse? Of course she wouldn't, she'd apply the Catching Game, which is a seriously effective way of teaching a horse to come to be caught. Don't underestimate the power of this, all your horses could be "trained" this way, and they wouldn't wipe the trainer out. That is the reason why this remains so popular. It is a high-profile training method that is accessible to everyone who wants to pay, and they can show the results with horses time and time again.
 
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When a horse is held, the focus of attention must be on the person holding it. It must follow the lead from that person.This horse has the attention span of a goldfish!Horses like this suddenly get an idea in their head and the next moment,you have hoofprints on your back.

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Yes horses need to have their attention on their handler for safety reasons, however she was ragging him around and then smacking his face away from her so surely encouraging him not to have his attention focused on her? Then yanking his head back around then telling him to back away - extremely confusing if I say so myself.
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I do not think this 'game' was the correct way to gain the horses attention she has only succeeded in making the horse head shy.

Next time you are having a conversation with someone and something catches your eye and you break eye contact with them, lets hope they remember to smack you round the face with a rope with a metal clip on the end of it!!!
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Everyone seems to be making a lot about the metal clip. Incase anyone hadnt noticed you can only pull on a rope. She snakes the rope hard. The weight of the clip actually absorbs most of the energy. (that is probably why she is snaking it so hard). Now lets consider the English method . Lets put a metal ring in the horses mouth that is designed to cause pain when the lead rope is pulled. When the horses attention strays we give it a pull. This is direct application of force to induce pain.No rope waggling or clips bouncing about. Force and pain.We are accustomed to the chiffany so we dont generaly consider its effect.
 
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Don't underestimate the power of this, all your horses could be "trained" this way, and they wouldn't wipe the trainer out.

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Herbie would. We had a NH trainer come up to a horse afew years ago at the riding school i used to work at. They where doing Monty Roberts stuff. They tried to join up with the mare in a round pen and she nearly got killed. Told us to "shoot the bloody thing"
I did my vertion of join up and it worked (took a while but we got there).
Not every horse is the same and i truly believe Parelli has caused alot of my new ponies (Herbie) problems. You can't be agressive with him as he just gets agressive back trust me i know. He is teaching me how to work with him. I have known Parelli work with a few horses but it was not done in the manor shown.
 
Im not entirely sure that any one has explaind here that horses are not machines! therefore its is the reponsibility of the handler to remain aware of what the horse is doing. Yes a horse should be well mannered, but i dont see how doing what this woman was doing in this film instigates that. like i have said, I own 3 horses and have had many more over the years, they have all been very well mannered horses and I have never felt the need to behave in the same way as this woman to acheive these results. If someone is incapable of handling a horse they should either seek the advice of someone capable (and sensible) or they should own a horse within thier own capabilities. It would seem to me that this video is a "how to get your head kicked in" demonstration. Any horse with any spirit about it would soon retaliate which is exactly why it is dangerous to recommend anyone do this with their own horse!!
 
Ok so as a complete contrast, have a look at how Klaus Ferdinand Hemphling works. I have to be honest, the first time I saw him in action he let this particular horse go loose in the arena (Hartpury 2008). I genuinely thought "ok so THIS should be interesting" He had this horse eating out of his hand in under 20 mins. THis horse reminded me of one I have who reacts as though you have stung him with a cattle prod.

But this guy was poetry in motion to watch. His methods were so gentle and subtle. Most if not all was done off the headcollar. Apparently he makes a point of not talking to the owner until he has had time to work with the horse without any preconceived ideas of the horse.

Sadly he doesn't come to the UK very often...
 
I agree that a Chiffney in the wrong hands is a very dangerous tool. However, if you have a horse that rears (which is what a chifney is intended for) all it takes is for them to go up once, when they are stood up, give on good pull on the rope. yes this would induce pain. so would the horse if it landed on your head, but generally speaking you only need to do this once and the horse learns and stops. you should never over use a chifney. doing this wont make a horse head shy, or try to kick you, or try to bolt away.
 
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Everyone seems to be making a lot about the metal clip. Incase anyone hadnt noticed you can only pull on a rope. She snakes the rope hard. The weight of the clip actually absorbs most of the energy. (that is probably why she is snaking it so hard). Now lets consider the English method . Lets put a metal ring in the horses mouth that is designed to cause pain when the lead rope is pulled. When the horses attention strays we give it a pull. This is direct application of force to induce pain.No rope waggling or clips bouncing about. Force and pain.We are accustomed to the chiffany so we dont generaly consider its effect.

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Try being blindfolded and holding a rope halter with said rope attached to it, and being led around by that. Its amazing how sensitive you'll be to it. The metal clip is designed to help the smaller movements be interpreted sooner.

Do you know a chifney causes pain? Used correctly it should only be the horse who puts pressure on the bit, not the person.
 
I think you will find that "we" is not everyone. I will never and have never used a chiffney. My horses have always been well mannered and I have never been forced to use harsher methods such as chiffney or try all of this parelli rubbish
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I dont think this video was for training the inexperienced or even an official parelli video. I dont follow parelli, but I saw a number of things that I do on a day to day basis. Chasing the horse round in a four metre circle. Great. Especially for loading. Easily said yet it would take ages to explain properly what is going on. What it achieves, and you might find it easier to think I am a monster too.Different countries have different approaches to Horse Training. Wouldnt you love to have a horse that you could jump off of and provided you left the reins hanging down, wouldnt move an inch. " Dear HHO my dobbin keeps pulling back when tied up ,last week he pulled the barn down" oh good grief.
 
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QR - I thought this video was disgusting and have written an email to the BHS about it as I am a member. I have nothing but dislike for that pair of cretins from Parelli
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Let us know if you get a response from them
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When a horse is held, the focus of attention must be on the person holding it. It must follow the lead from that person.This horse has the attention span of a goldfish!Horses like this suddenly get an idea in their head and the next moment,you have hoofprints on your back.

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I would agree you want the horse's attention focussed on you - and following your lead. That ASSUMES, though, that you aren't distracting it so much with overly 'loud' actions and frightening it with FAR to busy body language!

If you want a horse to listen to you, whisper - and I don't mean 'horse whispering' type whisper! Butif you're quiet of voice and quiet with your body language, a horse is FAR more likely to hear you and pay attention.

Obviously, with a very spoilt, bolshy horse you MIGHT have to 'shout' once or twice to teach it that behaviour isn't acceptable. But if you keep shouting, the horse will remain deaf! Training a horse must be about constantly looking for good behaviour to reward - with the odd, firm reminder about what is unacceptable. And 'commands' must be clear - SO much was going on with that woman's body language, NO horse COULD have focussed!
 
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I dont think this video was for training the inexperienced or even an official parelli video. I dont follow parelli, but I saw a number of things that I do on a day to day basis. Chasing the horse round in a four metre circle. Great. Especially for loading.

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Mmm - well I'm not exactly 'inexperienced' - over 60 horses on my place at present, including 3 stallions, youngstock, etc. - and horses coming in to be backed and re-schooled constantly. And I saw bu**er all that I WOULD use once a year - let alone every day.

And I have taught more horses to load than I care to remember - from total beginners who have NEVER loaded (the easiest!) to horses that regularly took their owners 3 hours to load. I have NEVER had to chase a horse around in circles (except for the 'tight lunging' part of a 5 stage vetting!) - and I see no circumstances in which it would be helpful with a problem loader!
 
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