Parelli = Horse-Man-Sh*T

I totally agree with you...slapping a horse in anger or with agression is not ok. Looks like Linda is trying to get the horse to move his front end around (moving a horse sideways, backwards or disengage the hindquarters can help break the pattern of him wanting to run forwards, but you're not trying to 'make' him stand still...you're allowing him to move himself around in a way that's going cause the left side of the brain to kick in which is his thinking side, the right side is his instinctual side - flight/fight etc) The horse can't keep his feet still so she's trying to help him move around until he feels he can stop himself. You might see that she offers him the opportunity to move away from the rythmical pressure she's applying whilst moving her body towards him. The horse chose not to move (he had the choice to move) and so just like if you didn't move out of the way of something that's headed your way you're going to make contact with it. But the important thing here is that the horse was given the opportunity to do something aboout it...and it wasn't done with anger or agression.
 
What a stupid idiotic bitch, I stopped watching half way through. That poor horse did nothing wrong at all, I have absolutely no idea what she was trying to achieve so how can the horse have known.
To think these people pass themselves off as experts.

I am open minded and willing to look into anything the helps training without force but this has certainly made me more aware.

Everyone has days when they are frustrated, less patient ect and on those days you should leave your horse alone, there is always tomorrow.
 
Where can I watch this vid? Im no fan of LP and the hype surrounding the marketing (I object to being told I dont love my horse because I wouldnt go to their conference) but was at the very first visit of PP to the UK and was, at that time, impressed with HIS work.
 
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I totally agree with you...slapping a horse in anger or with agression is not ok. Looks like Linda is trying to get the horse to move his front end around (moving a horse sideways, backwards or disengage the hindquarters can help break the pattern of him wanting to run forwards, but you're not trying to 'make' him stand still...you're allowing him to move himself around in a way that's going cause the left side of the brain to kick in which is his thinking side, the right side is his instinctual side - flight/fight etc) The horse can't keep his feet still so she's trying to help him move around until he feels he can stop himself. You might see that she offers him the opportunity to move away from the rythmical pressure she's applying whilst moving her body towards him. The horse chose not to move (he had the choice to move) and so just like if you didn't move out of the way of something that's headed your way you're going to make contact with it. But the important thing here is that the horse was given the opportunity to do something aboout it...and it wasn't done with anger or agression.

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except in the field if the horse was moved by another horse he wouldn't be attached to it with a rope so he couldn't get away from the kicks and bites!

horses are not logical thinkers so to say he has to choice to move doesn't work.
otherwise every horse that doesn't load/jump/hack alone should be whipped from behind as he has the 'choice' to move forwards and chose not to.

she didn't give him the chance to stand still and imo there was no clear goal that she wanted from the horse.
 
Its not just this 'exercise'. all the parelli stuff is like it.

I saw a demo on tv with pat himself! 'playing' a game called 'hide your hiney' as he put it.

He had the horse on the lunge and any time it looked away from him, he whacked it really hard on the backside with a whip. So it turned to face him, then kept whacking it everytime it looked away!!!!!!!!!!!.

He is condoning violence, and violence of any kind completely loses my respect! especially when it involves children or animals!
 
Right Ive seen it now.

The horse goes from alert but quiet to headshy, shaking (hind legs) and shitting itself in a little over a minute.

Nice one Linda.
 
jeez!! that is actually disgusting abuse, i was gonna stop watching halfway thru but wanted to see the end just to know what this woman hoped to "achieve". Its was blindingly obvious that nothing was achieved apart from the obvious, the horse was scared of her.
If someone did this with my horse i would do the same to them.
I dont think this is linda parelli tho, but whoever it is should be shot.
 
I have to say I found that hard to watch
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. Stupid woman.
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I never knew much about Parelli but had sort of had heard about it and heard people talking about the 'Carrot Stick'. I had a sort of warm indistinct idea that it was some sort of soft little stick to waggle. Then I was on a trade stand one time at YHL and a lady came on carrying this thumping great big long wicked looking orange schooling whip thing and I just commented on the colour. 'Oh its a carrot stick' she says
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. Holy cr*p there aint anything warm and fuzzy about those guys
 
Getting a horse into such a high state of fear and confusion is creating the conditions which are least conductive to learning and listening (which i assume is what she was trying to acheive). In such a state any living thing is highly unlikely to learn anything other than to try and escape the fear.

Hitting a horse around the head like that is never an acceptable method of 'training' or even punishment. You can use the word 'game' all you like. The word game is carefully chosen by these people as it is a word with connotations of fun. These horses are having anyting but fun. I don't think i could think of a more inappropriate word for what they are doing.

To me that horse looked like he needed calming down in order to keep his attention focussed on the 'trainer' and not all the activity around him. This would be better acheived with consistent and clear aids. Not a higgledy-pigglydy mess of yanking, slapping, shaking rope and hitting him on the backside.

I admit that if a horse attempts to rear with me it will get a couple of sharp yanks on the leadrope as she was doing. The horse then generally walks on fine. Also if a horse attempts to barge thorugh me i will ask them to back up strongly. But these are singular clear signals given on their own. Not one after the other with no time to respond.

That horse did not look dangerous to me. It looked distracted yes, but nothing unusual in those circumstances.

Perfect way to ruin a nice horse. Idiot woman. And idiot owner for standing by.
 
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fwiw someone very high up in the Parelli world told a friend that "your first Parelli horse is your sacrificial horse" (that you learn on, and wreck in the process)

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Yes and Ian Stark is well known for having said 'you ruin several good horses on the way to the top' - which is more or less the same thing, isn't it? As you learn you realise what you didn't know before, what you did wrong, and how much better your horse could have been if you'd had a clue!

I'm not getting involved in the debate on the rights and wrongs of this vid, but I think it's a bit inflammatory to put that quote up there like that when it's nothing more than people in all disciplines say on a regular basis.....
 
Christ, no wonder the horse doesn't know what she wants it to do, even I can't figure it out
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poor animal, it looks so confused. If anyone tried that with mine he'd flatten them.
 
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'I dont think this is linda parelli tho, but whoever it is should be shot.'

It is her.

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how do you know?
 
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I believe the clip is taken from one of her dvds

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then that is DISGRACEFUL!!! people actually PAY for this??? omg mental
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fwiw someone very high up in the Parelli world told a friend that "your first Parelli horse is your sacrificial horse" (that you learn on, and wreck in the process)

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Yes and Ian Stark is well known for having said 'you ruin several good horses on the way to the top' - which is more or less the same thing, isn't it? As you learn you realise what you didn't know before, what you did wrong, and how much better your horse could have been if you'd had a clue!

I'm not getting involved in the debate on the rights and wrongs of this vid, but I think it's a bit inflammatory to put that quote up there like that when it's nothing more than people in all disciplines say on a regular basis.....

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nice editing SC, you missed out the last bit of my sentence - that it looks as if LP hasn't got there yet. i thought this part was quite important.
I don't think it is received wisdom that you have to wreck a few horses to get to the top in various disciplines... if you are working horses under good supervision, and/or well trained, why would you wreck them?
i am not talking about tendon injuries, that kind of mechanical 'breakdown', that can happen no matter how careful you are, i am talking about mentally destroying a horse.
also, a huge part of Parelli is groundwork, and the thought of wrecking a horse FROM THE GROUND is even more shocking, to me.
 
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When a horse is held, the focus of attention must be on the person holding it. It must follow the lead from that person.This horse has the attention span of a goldfish!Horses like this suddenly get an idea in their head and the next moment,you have hoofprints on your back.

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Horses like this
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he was only looking the other way!
 
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'I dont think this is linda parelli tho, but whoever it is should be shot.'

It is her.

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how do you know?

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Because I have seen and heard her!
 
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Everyone seems to be making a lot about the metal clip. Incase anyone hadnt noticed you can only pull on a rope. She snakes the rope hard. The weight of the clip actually absorbs most of the energy. (that is probably why she is snaking it so hard).

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Wrong wrong and oh yeh WRONG.
The halter used is designed to have a long loop to attach the clip to. The rope used is selected for its ability to transmit movement with minimal dampening, vastly different to standard lunge line or ship rope. The clip is substanstially heavier than it need be for strength alone.
The idea is that as the rope is waggled from side to side using the shoulder (level 4 force) the clip will start to swing with the movement rapidly increasing until it does hit the horse with considerable force. It's the 'bet yer cant ignore this' end result.
I have a genuine P halter and rope (please dont ask why) and believe me, it doesn't take much to get the heavy clip to hit the horses lower jaw.
 
It is acceptable to "wreck" a few horses along the way???! WTF!!!!!

In all my years of riding - and am no "wonder horse person" by any means - I have never wrecked a horse. I can say that hand on heart!

So how is it acceptable for "professionals" to wreck / sacrifice a horse???!

Sending a horse into "shutdown" is an incredibly dangerous thing to do. The end result is that the horse will collapse ("throw itself on the ground") Every organ barring the vital ones (heart, lungs etc) will shut down in order for the horse to survive the totally overwhelming experience. The shock could literally kill it. It is not just the horse that has this mechanism, we all do. Think about what happens when we faint. Not that dissimilar.

People who do not understand the basic psycology of the horse but who "train" them is one thing. Those who do (and abuse it to their advantage) is totally another!!!
 
Wasn't intending to edit specifically to remove that - and I don't think Ian means breakdowns - not in the context I've heard - more asking an intermediate horse to go advanced when it isn't an advanced horse, running too fast XC, making a mistake and wrecking something's confidence etc....all things I think most top riders have done in one way or another and wouldn't with what they know now.

Pippa Funnell admits to doing it in her autobiography!
 
lovely training video from a top trainer. WTFH.

im sure a video of a top dressage rider holding a horse down in roulkur for 20mins when his attention wanders would sell as well...........................

utter rubbish.

that poor animal (who appeared totally normal to me!!hardly dangerous or disrepectful) has no idea what to do. heck, I wouldnt have known what to do, except just try to get away from this maniac who keeps whacking me in the face and carrot sticking me!

horses are reactive- thats part of their trainability. i think to train that out of them and 'shut them down' would make things far harder to train them....
i dont mind if my horse dares to look at something when i am leading/working it- as long as they dont pull away or walk on me. infact i expect them to be looking about a bit- they are live animals not machines!

horses do need a leader- but to be led, they have to understand the leader and the questions they ask. this poor horse had no idea....he offered many responses and none appeared to be 'right'.

if they dont understand, they cant follow. simple.

my horse all lead and load and are well behaved. they have never seen a carrot stick.

woman should never be let within sight of a horse.

this is a training video from the top, for others to follow, god only knows what abuse other horses are getting.
THIS is how horses end up dangerous- because they are fearful and dont understand this contsant pressure. not how they are trained NOT to be dangerous.
 
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This video is part of the Level 1 pack...Level 1 being focused on 'how to keep yourself safe'. Having watched this video and section 'in full' (the uploaded video is an isolation of the situation) what I saw was an owner who was going to end up in hospital with this horse (and wouldn't be the first). The horse was just crashing through him with absolutely no idea he was even there. In the clip I didn't see Linda 'attacking' the horse with anger or agression, and with the 'wiggle, wiggle, bump' she was giving the horse the opportunity to respond to the first 'wiggle'. Have you ever seen a horse move another horse? If this horse was in a herd environment and crashed around like that he'd get a kick in the chops pretty quickly. Is that not natural for a horse to kick or bite another horse? Also I don't think she's 'chasing' the horse round in circles. It seems she's trying to disengage his hind quarters to help him come to a stop. The horse 'chose' to run forward, when he did Linda put some motion down the rope equal to the pressure that the horse was running forward with and he ran himself into the 'bump'. I think this is just one example of what to do to keep yourself safe in an extreme situation...not how Parelli is practised all the time. I'm not a Parelli devotee or anything, but have seen all of their material and having viewed it in full it does make sense. With any type of training methods I think it's really important to understand it before we critisize...if we do then surely we all fall into the category of 'my way or the highway'??? Just my humble opinion.

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This really didn't look like an owner on their way to being hospitalised by their horse. I can't imagine if the clip were longer it would look much different.

She didn't give the horse the chance to respond to a low phase. Half the time there wasn't a low phase.

Linda deliberately put the Bump to the horse: he did not choose to run into it. He didn't choose to avoid it, which is not the same thing, but how could be have done that anyway?

How can a clip where the more she worked with the horse, the more agitated and crowding her he became, ever be an example of keeping yourself safe?

Plenty of other effective, calm and respectful ways of getting your horse's attention back and getting him to respect your space. This, IMO, isn't one of them.
 
I could barely watch that ... though I've never done Parelli, I know someone who's at Level 3 who still promotes using the whip for punishment and hitting the horses "like the lead mare in the herd would" which is a futile argument in its own ... I have always been interested in the principles of Parelli, but what hypocrites! This has lost all my respect and curiosity for them: the horse was licking and chewing, walking backwards - and she still didn't relent.
I can't even work out what she wants the horse to do ... she has her timing all wrong, is unclear, too heavy handed and unfair, and simply inconsistent. What a cow! I would NEVER let anyone do that to any horse I am responsible for - she'd geta good talking-to.
 
Guys, a bit of measured reaction please. And drop the name calling - it helps no one, and just makes you look bad.

This is a short careful section of clips from a bigger section. It is viewed out of context and without the supporting materials, and importantly without the conclusion/results section.

Linda Parelli is very smart, and very much aware of how she communicates and is seen as a representative of her organisation. She is not about to be seen beating up a horse or loosing the plot. Too much to lose.

Now I bet I can follow you around with a camera and put together a compilation that looks as if you are roundly abusing your horse - I just need a bit of selective editing...

Traditional horsemanship in the UK has a lot of things not to be proud of, so let he who is blameless cast the first stone.

I've watched that in context with the rest of the section. That horse was absolutely disrespectful of space - and needed to be given strong phase 4 signals before it would listen.

As we say in our area - "better a Phase 4 than end up in Ward 4".

Phase 4 is somewhere I rather not go with any horse, but if I have to go there I will, because it is most important that the human is in charge, and the human is safe.
 
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Now I bet I can follow you around with a camera and put together a compilation that looks as if you are roundly abusing your horse - I just need a bit of selective editing...


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I bet you can't.

You can follow me for a month and you'll not see a thing that could be misconstrued as abuse, no mater how you edit it.
 
Just seen from the IHDG forum that the horse in the video has only one eye! IF this is true then it also explains how important it was for the horse to stay very aware of what is going on in his surroundings....
Surely whatever the merits of any training technique, they only really work if a horse (or human is calm and ready to learn). What I saw here was a very stressed horse who was simply reacting to what was going on and had no opportunity to rationalise (if that's not too anthropomorphic of me) or even understand. I cannot therefore see how any useful 'learning' will have taken place.
 
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