Parelli's return!

Slightly Foxed said:
Here's a not very good mobile phone video of what happened with Catwalk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gf7w_1ifus
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That is shocking, and even more shocking is the fact ALL those people sat and watched it happen!!! I know they've paid their money and been brainwashed into believing the ***** they speak but how anyone could allow that to happen without speaking up I really don't know. :mad:

I hope all the 'supporters' out there are ashamed.
 
drover said:
There seem to be a larger percentage of horse owners posting here who do not like the parelli method.

Does anybody have an idea of how many horse owners are in the UK and how many actually follow parelli?

They seem to capture the market when it comes to complete newbies in the equine world but I don't know of many people with experience and knowledge turning to their ways.

Has anybody a lesson from one of their many instructors that have newly appeared out there? (even out of curiosity!)
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When I got my daughter her first loan pony I toyed with idea but decided against pursuing it because of the cost, which in hindsight I am glad about. We were very novice horse people and he was a tricksy, sharp green pony. When you don't know much about something but want to learn it is very easy to be swayed by a strong personality that appears to "know" all the answers and will teach it to you in x amount of easy steps.
 
drover said:
There seem to be a larger percentage of horse owners posting here who do not like the parelli method.

Does anybody have an idea of how many horse owners are in the UK and how many actually follow parelli?

They seem to capture the market when it comes to complete newbies in the equine world but I don't know of many people with experience and knowledge turning to their ways.

Has anybody a lesson from one of their many instructors that have newly appeared out there? (even out of curiosity!)
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I don't know what you can be hoping to achieve by starting this thread, other than to start another bandwagon rolling for all of the 'haters' to jump on ...
 
Actually, drover's questions are entirely reasonable imo. I too would like to know how many people follow Parelli in the UK, and also what kind of people join the programme.
 
joeanne said:
LMAO @ Lochy.
Eggs and tumbleweed.
Should we have a point scoring system do you think? 1 point if you hit Pat, 2 for Linda, 3 if you get her in the eye, and double the above for moving targets?
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And ten bonus points if you can grab the orange stick as she falls?

Seriously, I think it will be business as usual.
 
Golf Girl said:
I don't know what you can be hoping to achieve by starting this thread, other than to start another bandwagon rolling for all of the 'haters' to jump on ...
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Golf girl,

Sorry if I offended you but it appears you've jumped to a conclusion.
Maybe you should re-read my first question and the later posted questions as they are very openly worded and inviting for all.

Yes there are a higher proportion of people who dislike the parelli method who have stated an opinion but there is no reason why the many people who favor the method cant voice their opinion and share their thoughts on the questions is there???
 
I was thinking of going....see i have a 'carrot stick'. Okay not a real one (you've got to have won the euro millions for one of those) but it's still orange, just shorter and squarer and well, made out of carrot. Basically I wanted to ask Linda and Pat's advice as everytime I try to beat, sorry desensitise my horse he eats it?? Where am I going wrong? Should I use a celery stick instead??:confused::p
 
Charem, it is quite obvious where you are going wrong. You simply do not understand Parelli. You are wrong. In fact you are all wrong because none of you have an orange stick!! You aren't horsemen, the Parelli clan are. Everything they do has a reason behind it. No, I am not going to explain it, you wouldn't understand anyway, you obviously don't do Parelli.





Sorry, stupid sarcastic sense of humour :P
 
Echo Bravo said:
Like it Charmen, but have you tried the parsnip stick?? Mine takes chunks out of it and spit it back at me.:D:D:D:D
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A PARSNIP STICK!!!!:eek: Are you mad!!!! It would completly break his little right, left, introvert, extroverted brain!!!...Unless, or so i've heard, I write a cheque made out to Pat for £10,000 and hit my first born in the face with a 12ft training rope:D
 
JessandCharlie said:
Charem, it is quite obvious where you are going wrong. You simply do not understand Parelli. You are wrong. In fact you are all wrong because none of you have an orange stick!! You aren't horsemen, the Parelli clan are. Everything they do has a reason behind it. No, I am not going to explain it, you wouldn't understand anyway, you obviously don't do Parelli.





Sorry, stupid sarcastic sense of humour :P
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Ahhhhhh I see, I need an 'orange' stick, not a carrot stick....(toodles off to kitchen to see if we have any orannges in stock)
 
Well Parelli again eh!

It's with some trepedation that I stick my toe into this particular stretch of water, but, here goes.

A number of topics here on the forum seem to provoke quite polarized views from the contributors. Barefoot and shod, natural horsemanship as opposed to more traditional methods of training, with Parelli natural horsemanship evoking very strong reactions.

Ray Hunt died recently, and he of course is one of the trainers in the line of Bill and Tom Dorrance, men who took a kinder gentler approach to horse training in the American West where pressures of time and money was great to 'break' large numbers of semi feral horses for the cattle ranching trade.

Their methods became known as Natural Horsemanship, but as Bill Dorrance himself said, 'It is not natural for horses to be around people, and its not natural for a person to sit on a horses back. When we use these words we speak about what's natural for the horse to do within his own boundaries.

These old horsemen have all gone now, and the world for horses will be a poorer place for their passing. Their methods however, go back to the advocacy of gentle methods by Xenophon in Ancient Greece.

The divergence, of European methods of horse training and North American methods only goes back to the 1800's and the openning up of the West. The people who did that were European with European values and traditions.

It was about this time that Black Beauty was published here, in an effort to highlight the routine cruelty to horses, on a daily basis, in our own towns, cities and villages.

There are lots of natrural horsemanship trainers now all over the world ,many of whom cite people like the Dorrances as being influential, indeed Pat Parelli, constantly refers to them and others.

Parelli Natural Horsemanship, has attempted to become synonymous with natural horsemanship, which of course, it is not. What they have attempted to do is package this skill and market it to the masses, by drip feeding information for money. Corporate America.

I have no problem with anyone marketing their skill, this is what every riding instructor does every day.

What worries me is this vociferous outcry by some to 'ban' Parelli. If you call for a ban on Parelli training, you must surely ban dressage and steeple chasing, horse racing, trotting the list goes on.

No one can say that cruelty does not exist here in the UK, ask HAPPA and Redwings and the rest.

In my opinion, and I have been around horses all my life, owned and worked strings of horses, natrural horsemanship, is not the only way, but it is a fantastic way of building a truely wonderful relationship with your horse.
 
mmmm. Not having a penny of mine thats for sure!!
I wonder how they would like being chased around with 'carrot sticks'!
One day, a horse will turn on them, im sure of it. And I hope then other persistant parelli people will realise then, that parelli is nothing more than a bunch of circus tricks.
 
LizzyandToddy said:
mmmm. Not having a penny of mine thats for sure!!
I wonder how they would like being chased around with 'carrot sticks'!
One day, a horse will turn on them, im sure of it. And I hope then other persistant parelli people will realise then, that parelli is nothing more than a bunch of circus tricks.
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I know the perfect horse that actually would turn on them hes a coplete maniac.... now if only I could get them to use him in one of his demonstrations and the owner is (sadly) into all that sort of stuff but she might be more monty roberts than parelli. Said horse nearly killed me the other night in the field and im good with handling horses hes just arrogant and dominant. I was the only one that could get near him at one point as I had him on loan until I found him stiff and he was arthritic (eventually got owners to get vets out). Took a lot of time to get to know and he was misunderstood to a point so all in all seems the perfect horse for a demonstration............ Oh did I mention hes not scared of running you down at a flat out gallop, rearing and bucking in your face or just peeing off even with a chiffney in his mouth and a lunge whip to keep him away!
 
Andyspooner. I have a copy of True horsemanship Through Feel by Bill Dorrance. But this was aimed at the american market and some of his saying I found hard to understand. We have some very good horsemen over here past and present that teach I think people would say N/H but what they would call basic commonsense, like the head groom from the Duke of Bea???? who has just retired he was a mine of imformation, hopefully he will write a book and I for one will be first in the queue to buy.
 
AndySpooner said:
Well Parelli again eh!

It's with some trepedation that I stick my toe into this particular stretch of water, but, here goes.

A number of topics here on the forum seem to provoke quite polarized views from the contributors. Barefoot and shod, natural horsemanship as opposed to more traditional methods of training, with Parelli natural horsemanship evoking very strong reactions.

Ray Hunt died recently, and he of course is one of the trainers in the line of Bill and Tom Dorrance, men who took a kinder gentler approach to horse training in the American West where pressures of time and money was great to 'break' large numbers of semi feral horses for the cattle ranching trade.

Their methods became known as Natural Horsemanship, but as Bill Dorrance himself said, 'It is not natural for horses to be around people, and its not natural for a person to sit on a horses back. When we use these words we speak about what's natural for the horse to do within his own boundaries.

These old horsemen have all gone now, and the world for horses will be a poorer place for their passing. Their methods however, go back to the advocacy of gentle methods by Xenophon in Ancient Greece.

The divergence, of European methods of horse training and North American methods only goes back to the 1800's and the openning up of the West. The people who did that were European with European values and traditions.

***But the divergance cam about, as you yourself say, as a result of having to break a large number of feral horses in a short time, not something that euates with British horse breaking******

It was about this time that Black Beauty was published here, in an effort to highlight the routine cruelty to horses, on a daily basis, in our own towns, cities and villages.

*****If you read the annotated version the cruelty Anna Sewell was addressing was not in methods of breaking and training, but much more in regard to long hours worked, the heavy nature of the work and poor conditions the working animals were kept in (at a time when most working families lived in poor conditions in towns and children as young as 7 worked in mills and down mines) Working snimals in rural locations in Britain were in much better circumstances, on the whole******

There are lots of natrural horsemanship trainers now all over the world ,many of whom cite people like the Dorrances as being influential, indeed Pat Parelli, constantly refers to them and others.

Parelli Natural Horsemanship, has attempted to become synonymous with natural horsemanship, which of course, it is not. What they have attempted to do is package this skill and market it to the masses, by drip feeding information for money. Corporate America.

I have no problem with anyone marketing their skill, this is what every riding instructor does every day.

What worries me is this vociferous outcry by some to 'ban' Parelli. If you call for a ban on Parelli training, you must surely ban dressage and steeple chasing, horse racing, trotting the list goes on.

No one can say that cruelty does not exist here in the UK, ask HAPPA and Redwings and the rest.

*****Cruelty does occur all over the world, but it is unusual to ask people to pay for the 'privilege' of viewing it and learning how to put it into practice.*****
In my opinion, and I have been around horses all my life, owned and worked strings of horses, natrural horsemanship, is not the only way, but it is a fantastic way of building a truely wonderful relationship with your horse.
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Natural horsemanship is one thing, what I have seen with regard to parelli, is not natural or horsemanship
 
I think the thing I find sinister is that these people make a concerted and pointed effort to propagate their methods, marketing them, as 'natural' and a way/method to 'bond' with a horse. From the evidence, it's reasonably obvious that the methods are not natural, nor indeed kind or aspirational. Furthermore, I'd argue it's not a bond, more a way of breaking the horse's spirit. I agree that there are a range of questionable methods out there in the equestrian world, but that's not an argument to endorse another one! Also it's the very slick marketing and blatant pursuit of cash, with no obvious underlying desire to genuinely improve the welfare of the horse that is worrying and disturbing. It's like a cult.

It's interesting that so many watched and so few questioned it until later. However, it's a sad fact that this is common. It's a good thing that voices are now heard and it's openly questioned and discussed. I think it's interesting that followers/propagators of the methods are often opposed to criticism nor open to discussion such as these - another feature of a very closed minded approach that probably knows it would not stand up well to questioning!
 
I am, and always have been interested in what is now commonly known as Natural Horsemanship.

'Natural horsemanship is the philosophy of working with horses by appealing to their instincts and herd mentality. It involves communication techniques derived from wild horse observation in order to build a partnership that closely resembles the relationships that exist between horses.'

Not a bad definition, but there are others.

I have studied natural horse behaviour a long time before Parelli or Monty Roberts et al washed up on our shores.

'Natural horsemanship avoids punishment based training methods.'

A good place to start I feel.

I don't own a crop or whip of any description.

I do not feel that I have to justify or support Parelli, they must do that for themselves, if they or their supporters feel they have to, they are just one of hundreds of Natural Horsemanship trainers.

There are, I feel lots of other issues which I am lucky enough to be able to practise with my horses, which I feel gives them a better quality of life.

I do not shoe them, as I feel that there are better ways now rather than relying on a medieval idea, which promotes pain, lameness and premature death.

I do not confine them to a box, stable or cage. I look upon rows and rows of boxes and restricted turnout, and I see a concentration camp for horses.

I do not feed mind blowing quantities of factory feeds loaded with sugars, nor to I let them gorge on lush fields of green death.

I am lucky, so I feel are my horses.
 
AndySpooner said:
'Natural horsemanship is the philosophy of working with horses by appealing to their instincts and herd mentality. It involves communication techniques derived from wild horse observation in order to build a partnership that closely resembles the relationships that exist between horses.
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I would dispute the feasibility and desirability of the bolded part above. Still, I think your approach is commendable. Thanks for both your posts which I thought were very reasonable and balanced.
 
This is all very one-sided.

First of all - I'm not a Parelli fan... I think it's all too much about the money and they have let themselves and their students down big-time with the recent displays of "unnatural horsemanship" discussed above.

However, I think it's unfair to be so critical of the followers of Parelli.

First of all - in response to the comment above "why doesn't she just ride it?" - owning a horse isn't just about the riding and for a lot of people it's so much more than that. But that's a whole other thread (bashing people who think horses are just for riding and valuing that above all else).

Secondly, I was at the Parelli celebration in 2009 (my friend won tickets - I'd never have paid to go and I was very sceptical) and I can't deny that seeing the relationship the more advanced students had with their horses was awe-inspiring and I defy anyone on here to say they would not like that level of understanding with their horses. I have a few friends who are Parelli followers and they range from an advanced dressage instructor who takes what she believes is right from the Parelli methods and uses it alongside her own methods very successfully, to a friend who has a full time job and limited time and finds the Parelli steps a great way to spend the little time she has in a focussed way, getting to know her horse. She can afford the prices and she enjoys having a set of "rules" to work to and she's smart enough to also acknowledge that Pat went too far with Catwalk. How can you criticise that???

Thirdly, not one of us is perfect in how we look after out horses. Some of us think it's ok to slap the latest gadget on our horse to "fix" a problem. Some of us think it's acceptable to keep them stabled for long periods at a time or to keep them in little separate individual paddocks with no contact with other horses. Some of us keep our horses purely to ride and the only time we spend with them is preparing them to be ridden. Some of us rug our horses early to stop their winter coat growing. But most of us do our best. And that's what Parelli followers are doing.

So please go ahead and bash Pat and Linda all you want to but please don't judge Parelli followers for wanting to achieve something special with their horse.

That was my twopenneth :)
 
Why are people so bitchy

Okay Parelli isn't for everyone but why the bitchiness.. there are people on H&H and other forums that are pathetic around horses, give pathetic advice thinking they know it all when they know nothing.

People who scream and abuse their horse, use crops in temper, take their anger out on their horse.. use spurs when they have no idea how to use them. Treat their horses like scum when they think no one is looking.

Ride their horses till the sweat is pouring from them then punish the horse if it won't move / jump as they want.

Nothing is really said about other sports where the horses are not treated well but add the name Parelli and all hell lets loose.

And... these same people who happily throw their opinions think they are saints but I bet quite a few have mishandled their horses from time to time.

I have seen horses badly handled in all sorts of the equine industry and though I do not agree with everything that the Parelli's do they are not as bad as people make out.

Its quite sad that a negative issue of any sort gains so much interest, why can't people be more positive?

:D:D I've probably riled a few backs with my post but then if I have hit a nerve then maybe those bothered by what I said need to look at themselves more closely.
 
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