Pedigree Dogs Exposed Three Years On

[Dobiegirl]

Tomorrow night at 9pm on BBC4 the above programme is showing and is a follow up to the original programme.

The original was a Panarama episode shown on BBC1 and I think its very telling this is being shoved on to BBC4.

 

[CorvusCorax]

The update on GSDs is not going to make the final cut of the programme.

I guess the progressive GSD fraternity setting up their own shows under international rules which put health and working ability to the forefront (your dog doesnn't have good health test results, or a working qualification, they do not get to compete in the top classes, simples) must not be deemed good television, oh well!!

 

[Dobiegirl]

How short sighted of them and then it leaves you wondering if there is a hidden agenda

I know as no one as seen it yet we have to keep an open mind but it dosnt bode well.

 

[MurphysMinder]

From what I have read I think this programme will be concentrating on brachycephalic breeds such as bulldogs and pugs, which I do think need some changes. I have no experience of them and imagine it is quite likely breeders are trying to improve the situation but PDE is just going to show the worst specimens . Disappointing the GSD won't make the programme, as you say obviously not good tv if the dog can be shown to be fit and healthy.

Interestingly I have this morning received some stuff from the KC Assured Breeders Scheme and they have (together with the Dogs Trust, now who was it saying DT wouldn't work with them) produced a couple fo booklets about socialising a litter of pups from birth, and in the new home. Have only flicked through it but it looks quite interesting. I have never been a fan of KC but they do seem to be making an effort now.

http://www.thepuppyplan.com/

 

[g16]

the kennel club are producing another video like the one on youtube almost in response to the bbc doc. it will be interesting to see what they say though i think this was produced before the bbc doc so they don't know what will be on it

 

[EAST KENT]

Oh here we go again! Dog breeder bashing. In my own breed ,bull terrier..mini and big..we have helped fund research for PLL in minis..so now all minis can be bred free of any hereditary blindness. Currently in big bull terriers we have done a Justgiving fund to find the DNA marker for hereditery nephritus..easily the breed`s biggest killer.That fund is now complete,swabs are being collected and work will start at the AHT. The fund is now redirected to finding £11000 to start research into heart disease,the second biggest killer. Just started is a Justgiving for Lethal Acrodermititus (LAD) a rare but always fatal dwarfing disease in the breed. None of this is newsworthy , bull terrier breeders trying their damndest to better the breed they love and it`s future.
I am sure that my own breed is not alone in bravely fighting diseases that threaten the dogs and so distress their owners,esp. the single pet owners..every breeders nightmare is to console a past buyer because the puppy you bred has died too young from a preventable (in the future) disease. Shame it is`nt newsworthy really..just saying.

 

[blackcob]

Ice Dogs is on an hour before if anyone's interested.

 

[g16]

i was at a debate last week with the head of the kennel club and he said he had no idea what was going to be in the programme and that they have had nothing to do with it.
one of my lecturers made the point, and this was agreed with that although the bbc doc was poorly produced and didn't paint the kennel club in a good light at all there has been some good outcomes as a result. Changes were already in motion regarding high profile breeds and this helped those breeders, showers and judges who were on the fence as to whether the changes were needed realise that something had to be done. I also tend to think it may have prompted more people to be more careful as to where they buy their puppy from and to look into health tests

 

[CorvusCorax]

I also tend to think it may have prompted more people to be more careful as to where they buy their puppy from and to look into health tests

Or people simply got the base message which was 'pedigree dogs are inbred and unhealthy, baaaad breeders' and rushed out to their nearest puppy farm or BYB to pick up a 'healthy' cross from untested, underaged, overbred parents.
But I do wish the KC would catch up with some other breed organisations and demand mandatory RESULTS in health testing before granting assured breeder status.
As a breeder said on another forum, she hip scores her dogs. If she bred from dogs with scores in the 20s and 30s, she would still be an assured breeder, because she hip scores. Doesn't matter how high the score is.

 

[Onyxia]

Ice Dogs is on an hour before if anyone's interested.

Recording - thanks for the heads up


I still think it was disgusting that the BBC choose to make a drama out of what should be a fact based programme.
They clearly decided to have a pop a pedigree dogs whatever the facts and the exclusion fo the GSD follow up shows that is STILL the agenda.



I have a 7 yo child so am forced to stop and chat to dog walkers a lot(poor people ) and the number who have decided to get a cross or avoid KC stock in favour of BYB (or "homebreds" as they are told they are :s ) because of this programme is shocking.

I can understand the merit of exposing bad practise in breeding, and agree with it if it's done properly, but this show has got the ratings and sensational headlines it was after without a thought to the consequence to the breeds involved.

My childhood yorkie died yesterday only 3 weeks off 16 years old, he had been sound for all but the last 12 months of it,visiting the vet for nothing more then jabs and castration because he had been bred by a KC breeder.
The admittedly very cute local lab X poodle is 2 and has a long list of issues according to the owner, seem to be at the vets every week!
And yet that owner is STILL convinced her dog is healthier then KC stock because of the lies peddled by the breeder and the back up those lies have got from the BBC.
Bloodyfuming.com!

 

[CorvusCorax]

the number who have decided to get a cross or avoid KC stock in favour of BYB (or "homebreds" as they are told they are :s ) because of this programme is shocking.

And yet that owner is STILL convinced her dog is healthier then KC stock because of the lies peddled by the breeder and the back up those lies have got from the BBC.
Bloodyfuming.com!

That's kinda what I was hinting at up there ^^^

 

[Onyxia]

That's kinda what I was hinting at up there ^^^

I only read to BC's mention of Ice Dogs Was not trying to copy

 

[CorvusCorax]

No I meant you confirmed it Was going to thank you, but thanks isn't the right word

 

[MurphysMinder]

You got it in a nutshell Onyxia!
And as CC says, whilst the Assured Breeder Scheme is a step in the right direction it does smart a bit that breeders can have the same accreditation as myself yet merrily breed from dogs with high hip scores.

 

[Onyxia]

No I meant you confirmed it Was going to thank you, but thanks isn't the right word

Ahh, yes know what you mean. The smugness of being proved right is rather tainted when it confirms that dogs are suffering

I get very ranty about it but I truly believe if the same show had not had the backing of the BBC, which is a brand we have all grown up trusting it would not have had the same reception

We have a GSD owner that I spot from time to time, last I spoke to them they were looking for another pup but had decided against going back to their original breeder despite their 8yo bitch being nice and healthy with a perfect family dog personality because of the things they heard on the show
I hope they saw sense and went back to their breeder and also dearly hope the BBC will, one day, be held to account for all the damage it's stupid attention seeking programme has done

 

[MurphysMinder]

Granted the BBC allowed it air time, but it wasnt "their" programme, it was made by an independent company?

As I have stated previously, I think the Assured Breeder Scheme is a farce, and will continue to be so until the KC recognise that they are really sending out the wrong message by allowing puppy farmers to become Assured Breeders......

Yes, if you read what the ABS requirements are and then look at some of the kennels who advertise that they are members it does make you wonder.

 

[ester]

I think that was an interesting comment from the boxer geneticist. Problems will occur, because mutations always do but it is how you deal with it to solve or limit the spread of them. If dealt with early enough you can remove the problem from the population.

 

[Onyxia]

Granted the BBC allowed it air time, but it wasnt "their" programme, it was made by an independent company?

I have no idea, I had assumed the BBC had commissioned at least since they aired it.
None the less, I stand by my point.
If I as a non media savy member of the public assume BBC air time equates to BBC stamp of approval the damage is done surely?
Everyone in the UK has grown up with the notion that the BBC is the channel to be trusted,if it has decided pushing an agenda is more important than truth and fair play we have lost something precious.

As I have stated previously, I think the Assured Breeder Scheme is a farce, and will continue to be so until the KC recognise that they are really sending out the wrong message by allowing puppy farmers to become Assured Breeders......

I quote agree, but the updated rules and regulations go some way to changing things I think.
The choice of the word "assured" is a poor one, they can not ATM assure that the breeder with the ABS badge really IS a good breeder

But I don't see how anything will improve in the areas we have problems by bashing the KC.
Things like the Mate Select site and the genetic research facility are a welcome step in the right direction.

 

[Onyxia]

I think that was an interesting comment from the boxer geneticist. Problems will occur, because mutations always do but it is how you deal with it to solve or limit the spread of them. If dealt with early enough you can remove the problem from the population.

I really liked him too!

 

[Chestnuttymare]

those poor little pugs, i had no idea it was so bad.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I think that was an interesting comment from the boxer geneticist. Problems will occur, because mutations always do but it is how you deal with it to solve or limit the spread of them. If dealt with early enough you can remove the problem from the population.

But the two big breeders shown have so far failed to offer blood samples to the geneticist and the owner of Gucci bred him back to his daughter.

I don't think the programme is sensationalist. It's horrible and scary and the KC seriously need to re-consider the breed standards. I fail to understand why they appear to refuse to want to improve breeds when they could make a huge positive difference.

I'm not going to knock breeders, but I think the KC/Crufts' judges need major castigation because they seem to passively encourage the ever increasing extremes of breeding. Utterly depressing. The public need educating but the KC, whose job I surely is, are failing at this as well as miserably failing to protect dogs. All kudos to those breeders who do select carefully and who health test thoroughly.

 

[MurphysMinder]

The boxer geneticist spoke a lot of sense, even if he didn't get samples from the breeders mentioned his research will hopefully help. I actually thought the programme was far less sensationalist than the last one, I like to think that is because more breeders are making an effort to improve things so less horror stories to show. The bulldog shown was horrendous, judges are certainly in the wrong if they are still putting up dogs like that. I wonder if the Neapolitan Mastiff was actually a show dog as its collar was on upside down, surely no exhibitor would make that mistake.

 

[SplashofSoy]

I thought the program was reasonably balanced praising the kc for the dally from America and it made the distinctions between kc and breed clubs. The problem appears to be the conflict of interest the kc has and its unwillingness to put its foot down.

I can't understand why if there was something u could do to improve the health of the breed and dogs you purport to love why u wouldnt do it.

 

[g16]

as far as i know the assured breeders now have to be inspected how often this happens i don't know but it is a step to make sure standards are being met.
by making tests compulsory for the abs it means that puppy buyers atleast are given every opportunity to view the results of possible parents. The reason it is not compulsory for all kennel club breeders to carry out health tests is the kc is concerned that this will drive breeders and breed clubs away. They will then decide to do their own thing which could prove terrible for the breed.

the breed standards have been changed and no where does it say that a dog must have a face that short. things are changing if you look at the clip the kennel club produced it is incredible what one bulldog breeder did in a short space of time. no the breed is still not perfect but it is a major step in the right direction. i think the kennel club would like considerable changes to the brachycephalic breeds but they have to keep the breeders and judges on their side while at the same time introducing the necessary changes.
i think most of the problems are not with the kennel club itself but with the breeders and judges that are set in their ways. the introduction of health checking those breed winners of high profile breeds and the fact that there is an observer who is NOT a breeder or judge of that particularly breed can only help improve things.

no I don't think the kennel club is perfect, it is terrible that things have been allowed to get this far but boycotting or endless complaining will not help. I believe that if the kennel club did not exist we would be in far more trouble

 

[Dobiegirl]

I enjoyed the programme if that is the right word, it was very informative of the negative aspects of breeds Boxers,Bulldogs & Pugs which certainly need addressing. The operation of that Pug to enable it to breathe was quite shocking and sadly is not a one off.

The photos of different breeds 100years ago when they were bred for purpose was quite telling and bare little resemblence to modern breeds.

But the last part of the programme was very interesting and I think it was the purpose of the programme, the replacement of the Kennel Club and it being replaced with a body that has dogs as their no 1 priority and not breeders.

I am also sad that it didnt mention all the hundreds of breeders out there who love their breed and are doing everything possible to breed a healthy puppy.

 

[Vizslak]

much better than the last programme, shame it wasnt granted the same spot on bbc1 and most people will not have watched it. Thought her final message about new governing body was a pile of tosh, thats not what dogs need, as ever and as we already knew, what is needed is a total KC reform, they are moving, but not enough and in a lot of cases not in the right ways. The major steps I would love to see them make is to not allow un health tested (with GOOD results) animals in the show ring and to stop registering litters from un tested (again with GOOD results) animals. Both steps are so simple and would be major steps, yet they have nothing in the pipeline for either measure.
On a slightly different note, this video was released by KC last week, I thought some of you may find it interesting;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrWjVFKuAg8 of particular note is the poor bulldog breeder doing his best to save the breed and getting no recognition in the ring with his dogs. God love people like him that continue to try and do their bit for their breed and go against the grain.

ets, I was tipped that our breed would be in the programme, we clearly didnt make final cut, although did make national press in the times yesterday

 

[Willeeckers]

Can't quote murphysminder but with regards to judges putting up dogs such as that bulldog surely the KC have records as to who said judges where - is going back and reinforce the training on choosing healthy animals not possible?

 

[Inthemud]

I've just been to a KC "Conformation and Movement" seminar, which is a requirement for becoming a dog judge (I just went for interest). The KC do seem to be committed to the fit for function message. Whether they are doing enough, I really don't know.

 

[Vizslak]

they do willeeckers and they also have 'independant monitors' watching these most vulnerable breeds in the ring that are supposed to pick this up. The trouble is that in the showing world the judges are often the same people breeding these ideals, except in the case of the minority who will go against the grain (and then get slated and probably get no entries at their next appointment) you wont get judges in individual breeds changing the type they place unless the kc really enforce it.

 

[CorvusCorax]

The reason it is not compulsory for all kennel club breeders to carry out health tests is the kc is concerned that this will drive breeders and breed clubs away. They will then decide to do their own thing which could prove terrible for the breed.

I think that lost revenue might be another concern?
The KC needs to stop worrying about 'driving people away' - would you WANT to be endorsing people who can't or won't health test their dogs?

People in my own breed have been going above and beyond KC requirements for DECADES without any recognition. There are PLENTY of breed clubs which act outside the KC, doing health testing off their own bat.
The health test requirements on the continent, of other FCI-affiliated kennel clubs, put ours to shame.