Pelham, spurs and whip...

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horses13

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We went to the david Broom showjumping championships last week.
I noticed many many ponies with pelhams and the riders wearing spurs and carrying whips.

To me a pelham means strong pony hard to stop, spurs and whip means sluggish pony hard to get going.

Can anyone explain why all three are used. I am not being critical. I was wanting to ask at the venue but everyone was nice i did not wish to come across wrong.
 
When taking my old mare xc I used a dutch gag, spurs and whip.
Why? She was very on the forehand and would pull like a train, this is why I used a gag rather than having a very dead mouth with me hauling her in snaffle. I used spurs to get a more precise leg aid, thus not having a horse dead to the leg and I like to carry a stick xc incase she's having a mare moment and deciding she'd put in a dirty stop.
All things have their use but should be used properly, tbh I'm not keen on small children using spurs as most of them don't have a great leg position and just jab jab jab.
 
Daisy was regularly ridden in a Pelham, spurs and a whip although not for show jumping. Spurs were because she was unresponsive to the leg when doing flatwork which she considered boring, a light tickle with a schooling whip often helped with the bend if she was being stiff down the side. The pelham helped her to listen and not just to run through the hands getting faster and faster without softening into the contact.

That said, for SJing the spurs were taken away as I just didn't need them, she was plenty responsive enough. I always carried a short whip but never used it more than just placing it on the shoulder.
 
I dont disagree with any of those gadgets if they are necessary but i do think sometimes they are used in place of proper training for quick results esp at lower levels. Also i think alot of kids think they are fashion items (as i did as a junior) and as does my niece now who turns up with all sorts of funky whips when she really doesnt understand when to use a whip or not she really shouldnt have one at all.
 
I ride my big horse in a pelham (two reins) because he is strong and also to ride him up into the bridle - he hates gags and he goes well in the pelham, he is soft & responsive.
He does elementary in a double.

I use spurs on him because I like to be precise with my aids & I like him to go off my lightest touch. and I always ride with a whip to back up my leg or 'in case of emergencies' out on a hack.

I agree that sometimes there are fashions with bits & 'gadgets' but I think also that a lot of the time there is good reason. It can be easy to stand on the ground and say 'that pony should be in a snaffle' but then try sitting on it! :)
 
I ride my horse in a dutch gag - missing bottom ring, grackle, spurs and whip for the following reasons Dutch Gag as she can lean on the bit and get very much on the forehand and strong, grackle as she crosses her jaw to avoid the contact, spurs as she can get behind the leg and their precise action helps to get her into an uphill canter whilst allowing me to use the rein to balance her, whip if she were to do a dirty stop but I rarely use it.
 
I ride George in a 3 ring gag on the first small ring for jumping as he can get a bit keen! I also carry a short whip, sometimes he will back off an unusual fence so a tap on the neck usually gets his attention and reminds him what to do!
 
horses13 said:
Can anyone explain why all three are used. .
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Because the horse and rider need schooling to improve balance, self carriage, suppleness etc and the rider wants results quicker than will be gained from schooling so they resort to artificial aids. e.g. if a horse is on its forehand so finds it hard to slow down or stop, training will get you there but a pelham will make the horse stop quicker because of the pressure on its head and mouth! Same with going off the leg, training will achieve this but spurs and a whip will get the same result quicker.

Not correct but a sad fact of impatience and/or lack of understanding from the rider.

And before anyone says about top riders doing it- just because they ride at a top level doesnt make it right! And they also generally have more feel and ability than other riders so can use such gadgets with greater empathy and tact!
 
teddyt said:
Because the horse and rider need schooling to improve balance, self carriage, suppleness etc and the rider wants results quicker than will be gained from schooling so they resort to artificial aids. e.g. if a horse is on its forehand so finds it hard to slow down or stop, training will get you there but a pelham will make the horse stop quicker because of the pressure on its head and mouth! Same with going off the leg, training will achieve this but spurs and a whip will get the same result quicker.
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Erm, or maybe it's a combination of things which work the best for this particular horse and rider. Jeez.
 
This is nothing new I was doing the Wales & West at Broomes ohh 17 yrs ago and it was the same then hun, definitely not a new trend ;-) We had one pony who was unbeatable but a complete plank, she could not walk anywhere at home or away, she reared everywhere or bounced, but as soon as she got into the ring she took people's breath away. We were on a small but well known dealers yard and the little mare 13.2 sold for amazing money for the time 'eventually' when a buyer came forward that could stay on board.

Also remember that often junior riders will ride for owners with little time to practise at home due to the fact the pony may be based hundreds of miles away with owners and simply meet at showgrounds to have the rides. I doubt this side of things have changed within 15-17 years, a lot of ponies there are not actually owned by the riders. It is sadly about making money, it was back then I doubt it has changed so much. Dealers have to showcase somewhere.

I am not lacking compassion just saying how it was when I was a junior in the bigger shows nationwide ;)

I can happily report I have been a hobby owner since 16 and have been fortunate to in adult life to keep my horses at home exactly how I see fit without interference. When I kept my jumping ponies on the dealers yard we had little say (between 7-15), we worked as riders and grooms and did as we were told for our own ponies keep, shoes, food, diesel and a place on the lorry.
 
zefragile said:
Erm, or maybe it's a combination of things which work the best for this particular horse and rider. Jeez.
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Works best for the rider, maybe. But not the horse.

as i said, it gets the results that the rider wants but it doesnt make it right
 
teddyt said:
Because the horse and rider need schooling to improve balance, self carriage, suppleness etc and the rider wants results quicker than will be gained from schooling so they resort to artificial aids. e.g. if a horse is on its forehand so finds it hard to slow down or stop, training will get you there but a pelham will make the horse stop quicker because of the pressure on its head and mouth! Same with going off the leg, training will achieve this but spurs and a whip will get the same result quicker.

Not correct but a sad fact of impatience and/or lack of understanding from the rider.

And before anyone says about top riders doing it- just because they ride at a top level doesnt make it right! And they also generally have more feel and ability than other riders so can use such gadgets with greater empathy and tact!
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Yes it isn't correct but the fact is that some horses are very difficult to get to go correctly, a year of good schooling with very good instruction and she is still not perfect. It should of course be a temporary measure and I wouldn't use them constantly, I do odd bits of jumping with a snaffle in and I'm working towards that as a permanent solution.

But the horse is perfectly happy and I am enjoying it so the at the end of the day it's not perfect but if no one is in pain or suffering then I don't see it as a big issue.
 
i mean this constructively but do you not feel you are 'forcing' your horse with the use of the gag, etc? i.e. you feel the gag solves the issue of her being on the forehand but is she on her forehand because she physically cant use her hindquarters more, as with most horses? So by using a gag you are forcing her up by her mouth and head pressure, when she might not be physically able. So she crosses her jaw because of the bit and you solve this by the grackle? Its a viscious cycle!

I appreciate you have worked for a year and are trying without, thats great. But it takes YEARS for some horses to carry themselves better. In the meantime use of such equipment can cause other problems, mental and physical.
 
I use a universal KK and previously used a pelham, spurs and a whip... doesn't mean you use them.
Horse is liable to tank off, so need breaks... he is also liable to stopping if your not there with him every step of the way- spurs to give that extra squeeze. Whip rarely used but a tap down the shoulder can help if hes wiggling into a fence...
I use them correctly and it works for us... people may not view it as correct, but he is well schooled and balanced, but he is a tricky ride but i rarely actually use them...
 
I don't feel that tbh as with a snaffle I would have to constantly pull whereas the gag is just a little half halt to balance her and sit her up when needs be. The crossing of the jaw she does when being led in a headcollar too, she's had teeth and everything checked :).

As others have said I prefer to have a slightly stronger bit with a more effective action that I can use very little, the same goes for spurs a little nudge here and there is preferable to niggling or a pony club kick imo :).
 
I see no problem with this if the 3 things are used correctly. Personally I would prefer to see a softer hand on a stronger bit than someone hauling on their horse's mouth in a snaffle. A bit is only as mild as the hand on the end of the rein. And the purpose of spurs is not to make the horse go faster but to give a more precise leg aid. If you need to kick, you should not be wearing spurs! The whip is usually there as back up rather than being used at every fence.

Not having seen the rider concerned I can't really comment, but if the horse is being ridden sensitively and correctly then I don't see what the problem is.

I hunt and jump my horse in a pelham or double bridle depending on the situation. It is much nicer and safer for both of us. He respects the stronger bit and responds to a much more subtle aid, in a snaffle I would be hauling for dear life as we approached the jump at a dangerous speed. No amount of schooling is ever going to take away his keenness to jump, so a stronger bit when needed is an acceptable compromise I feel.
 
teddyt said:
i mean this constructively but do you not feel you are 'forcing' your horse with the use of the gag, etc?
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My favourite bit is a sweet iron, French link loose ring snaffle, but sadly, not all horses will go in one of these.
My big eventer is 23, 17.2hh, and I ride him in a Tom Thumb. Before I got him he was a puissance horse in Holland, and then went on to do Grand Prix dressage at Talland before being retired with spavins.
When I got him 5 years ago, he went beautifully in a snaffle, however, he is much much fitter now, and I had real trouble with a girl who rode him for me twice a week hauling on his mouth. She would let go completely when she wanted a good old gallop, throwing the reins at him, and would then decide that she wanted to stop, so stand up and saw on his mouth with all her might. Needless to say, when I found out about this, she was sent packing.
However, after 2 months of this, the damage had been done, and he became incredibly hard mouthed, and I would much rather use a slightly stronger bit, with a much lighter hand, than have to hang on for dear life and haul him about in a snaffle. He loves his Tom Thumb - he plays with the copper rings, and the sweet iron gets him all slobbery and lovely, and I have never ever had to pull since he started to wear it.
I always ride him with a whip as he is blind in one eye and occasionally needs to be reminded to look where he's going, and I can't tell you how many times I've needed to open a gate with one!
I used to ride with spurs a lot, as I like horses to respond to the slightest aid, but had an accident in 2006 which means that my left leg now slides around of its own accord while trotting and cantering, and so I feel it would be unfair to ride in spurs and rub the horse raw on one side.
We had a lovely 5yr old in a few years ago, who came to us for schooling. He was uncontrollable in a snaffle - leaning on your hands and fighting the whole way, so we put him in a sweet iron Nelson Gag, and schooled him in it for 6 months. He responded to the lightest touch of the hand, and after 6 months, he went beautifully in a snaffle because, much like teaching a horse self carriage, he had learnt how to respond to the aids of a bit, and this became habit.
 
Grrr . .I can't edit it anymore I meant the last sentance to read like this

the same goes for spurs a little nudge here and there effectively just behind the girth gets the horse forward an uphill in my case which is preferable to niggling or a pony club kick which just gets her in a flat canter.
 
Regarding spurs for younger children I like the pony club system where you are watched riding in them and then get a card signed to say you can use them properly.
 
teddyt said:
Because the horse and rider need schooling to improve balance, self carriage, suppleness etc and the rider wants results quicker than will be gained from schooling so they resort to artificial aids. e.g. if a horse is on its forehand so finds it hard to slow down or stop, training will get you there but a pelham will make the horse stop quicker because of the pressure on its head and mouth! Same with going off the leg, training will achieve this but spurs and a whip will get the same result quicker.
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So nobody should leave home to go to a little RC show until they've schooled their horse to compete in a snaffle and with no spurs or a whip? What about if you buy a horse of 14 thats always been ridden in a certain way by the previous owners? Yes, if you've had the horse since it was a baby it ought to be snaffle mouthed but not everyone has the luxury of producing their own horses.

I'm currently reschooling Lil and have made the decision to put a slightly stronger bit in for a while as she's rushing her jumps. I don't think there is anything wrong with this. Yes, I hope to be able to go back into her snaffle quite quickly but I'm not ashamed to adapt my tack as needed.
 
I took my old horse XC with spurs, pelham and whip.
Spurs because he would back off spooky fences a lot, and tended to ignore my leg especially when his blood was up (he was a 16.3hh tank-like ISH and i was 5'2). Whip for a similar reason- actually don't think i've ever been XC without one (don't necessarily use it at all though). I used a pelham as he would tank off between fences, and there would have been no way I would have been able to take him in a snaffle, without ripping his back teeth out trying to stop, which would not have been enjoyable for either of us. On courses where he had less opportunity to get into fifth gear (ie twisty courses with jumps close together) I used a gag.
Incidentally, he used to event with a professional, who also took him XC (over much bigger tracks than I did! :D ) in a pelham. He'd had several homes, including being a hunter as a 4yo- he was in a pelham from a v young age :S So v good point above that you can't always reschool a horse to go in a snaffle off the lightest leg aids, especially if they, sadly, haven't been ridden as they should have been.
 
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Pelham - I want to stop NOW ...not in three roads time
Spurs - yes I do actually want you to go through the nasty muddy stuff
Whip - if all else fails...
 
teddyt said:
Because the horse and rider need schooling to improve balance, self carriage, suppleness etc and the rider wants results quicker than will be gained from schooling so they resort to artificial aids. e.g. if a horse is on its forehand so finds it hard to slow down or stop, training will get you there but a pelham will make the horse stop quicker because of the pressure on its head and mouth! Same with going off the leg, training will achieve this but spurs and a whip will get the same result quicker.

Not correct but a sad fact of impatience and/or lack of understanding from the rider.
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OK, so I am unbalanced, my horse is on the forehand and not responsive to the leg, making me an impatient rider who does not understand her horse.
But he will still do an elementary test and score in the 60s

I see what you are saying here in principle, but I think you are generalising a little. Just because I choose not to ride my horse in a snaffle, and to use spurs to sharpen my aids, does not make me (IMO, anyway, :) ) a worse rider than someone who is sawing away in a snaffle & kicking like an idiot.
 
A lot of ponies are badly and incorrectly broken due to the fact that someone small and light (usually a child) has to be used.

Also when some children are very small, and the pony could easily be ridden in a snaffle, just maybe not by them.

And as pony riders, they are more than likely not able to school correctly on the flat, and as they have such a short time in ponies, a year reschooling is a long time when you maybe only have two years on the pony.
 
All of these things can be used at certain stages of a horses schooling as a way of working towards the "ideal" teddyt talks about. You have already had some excellent answers in regards to why different bits are used with spurs, so I won't go into that.

However, a lot of riders unfortunately don't have the many hours required to school to get the horse to the required level of responsiveness in a snaffle, so use something like a pelham as a bit of a short cut, but also because they can then help get a horse to work in a certain manner, which then allows them to go back to the "ideal" of a snaffle bridle eventually once the correct habits have been established.

I will genuinely ride in spurs anyway when jumping, just purely because they are there if needed, and dont have to be used if not. Sometimes a stronger bit is required to help keep a horse together, and to help train it to respect the riders aids.

I am a bit anti seeing kids with all the gadgets, as I don't see how they can use them as a stage of training effectively... but having said that, i would much rather see ponies in a pelham than blooming dutch gags ;)
 
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