Pet cats - proposal to ban in places.

Added to my thoughts on this, I should add that my cats are pretty much all house cats and I know Lilly only goes as far as my garden normally. Cats coming and messing in others gardens is just grim and I get that annoyance!

I think the greater risk of cats to wildlife is the feral colonies, in my opinion it would make more sense to focus on them than pet cats... A curfew wouldn't offend me as I keep mine in at night anyway.
 
Last edited:
if we were to restrict cats and they had to be walked on leads (per the article on this I read) does that mean all dogs should also be leaded when out in public? I agree dogs are more of a menace than cats. However it was mink who killed all my hens shut in their henhouse, and foxes who killed my geese. Where do we stop.

thttps://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/horse-chased-on-road-loose-dog-shattered-all-four-legs-heartbroken-owners-campaign-883163

we have cats, (some are ferals we have encouraged) always have. We have a very healthy sparrow population and as for the swallows we will be getting seriously overwhelmed by them come the spring and there are more and more each year. More than we can cope with. .
 
Gloi said:
Is this in an area where there are Scottish wildcats and they are trying to stop them crossbreeding with domestic cats?
Click to expand...
This is my thought, too. I know it's an issue in Scotland; however, that's solved by only allowing neutered pets.
Clodagh said:
For me it’s to stop people being infected with diseases cats carry, shit everywhere and leave as it’s no one’s problem. To stop people having to listen to cats fighting or shagging all night.
To stop next doors cat killing my bantams.
The wildlife is a bonus, but not the main reason.
Click to expand...
Again, most of that is a neutering issue. It seems de rigeur, these days to leave cats and dogs intact - I wouldn't want to listen to queens getting raped in the night, either. I'm surprised at the cat killing hens. We have chickens and my old cat was terrified of them. New(ish) ones did try stalking, but I had a word about it possibly being the last thing they'd do (chickens don't generally put up with sh*t from cats!). They did come to their senses. I do keep mine in overnight, too. It's not worth the worry if nothing else and it does cut down any hunting dramatically (1/3 hunt). I don't know anybody who has caught anything from cats - certainly I've lived with them for over 40 years and nothing (and I'm a dirty scrote!).

I also can't remember where I read it, but it was proposed that development has damaged the wildlife populations far more than cats (or dogs). I can well believe it. Even in our established village, we are getting more and more people moving in who are removing hedges because they're hassle to maintain, or putting in fake lawns, or tarmacing what was once a dirt track. New developments have mono-culture token lawns and nothing else. We share our drive with a neighbour and they wanted us to remove the central grass strip because the grass brushed the underside of her stupid car that runs on rubber bands. We said no, although we have noticed that they've removed it on the bit just outside their house. They've also cut down mature trees because they didn't like the excess leaves in the autumn. Not convinced cats are the issue...humans yes.
 
Forgive me for being cynical, but… shares in pest control firms perhaps?

We got a cat due to a mouse invasion. Friend’s yard has no nearby cats and a big mouse/rat problem. My home yard is surrounded by cats - rats don’t last long here!

In the countryside where pheasants are shot and there is feed down all the time, the rat population in particular can be a little explosive!
 
9tails said:
I went to visit a friend who had bought a house on a new housing estate. What struck me immediately was the absolute silence, the estate was about a year old and there was no bird noise at all. I guess there was nowhere to roost, there are only small saplings, no chimneys and the houses are hermetically sealed. I know that I have a healthy population of house sparrows that overnight in my loft, I guess they can't do that in the new houses.
Click to expand...
The local new build estates around me are exactly the same. It actually seems to be a planning requirement to squish as many houses as possible into the area so there is no room for anything more than a tiny garden and token landscaping. The huge old hedge was bulldozed out of the way and that definitely made more of an impact than any cats the owners would have.

I've had cats all my life and they are usually too lazy to do much more than lie in the sun dreaming about catching the pigeons! Even the rescued ferals only get mice on the odd occasion and baby rabbits in breeding season.
 
Peglo said:
I could write the same about dogs. Next door neighbours dog killed one of my chickens, pulled feathers out of others, one collapsed to exhaustion and did recover but I felt so sad for her. I find dog sh*t on my property often. (can’t be just next door’s as the sizes of it)
Barking, growling, jumping up with dirty paws.

Dogs are far more of a menace to us than the neighbours cats.
Click to expand...
It's a shame that it's always the irresponsible owners who ruin reputations for the many. I'd be furious with what you are experiencing too, and I'm a dog owner. @Crazy_cat_lady is a responsible cat owner, yet she still has to suffer the actions of other people's pets. Wildlife killing hens etc is something I accept, as it is wildlife and isn't there as someone's choice to own an animal and then let it roam and do as it pleases on other people's property. I don't ever let my dog off the lead when walking, one because she is a terrier and the instinct is strong, two because I can't trust other people to have their own dogs under control, and after having been attacked twice on a public foot path by off lead dogs with owners who were miles behind (oh sorry, he's not usually like that 🙄) it's lead to me going out at odd hours and avoiding all the walks on my doorstep, just so my under control dog doesn't end up injured when she's minding her own business and enjoying her sniffs
 
Am I right in thinking that the shooting of corvids has been restricted? A magpie emptied a nest of swallows in my stable last summer then found a way into my tackroom and helped itself to my hens' eggs. Another magpie emptied the nest of blackbirds in my garden a few years ago but let's pick on cats.
 
Cats kill millions of birds every year. Millions. Anywhere between 25 and 50 million. (Accounting TO the RSPB)

I’ve said for years if I let my dog run around killing birds Willy billy I’d be in trouble. Cat owners seem to find it ok.

Cats should be keep indoors. If you don’t like it don’t have cats. It’s that simple.

There was (although I can’t find a link) a program on the telly as few years back about indoor cats as opposed to outdoor cats and it found (scientifically I believe) that indoor cats are actually much happier than outdoor ones because of the stress of being outdoors.
 
marmalade76 said:
Am I right in thinking that the shooting of corvids has been restricted? A magpie emptied a nest of swallows in my stable last summer then found a way into my tackroom and helped itself to my hens' eggs. Another magpie emptied the nest of blackbirds in my garden a few years ago but let's pick on cats.
Click to expand...
That’s nature happening though.

Cats are not a naturally thing for birds to cope with.
 
marmalade76 said:
Am I right in thinking that the shooting of corvids has been restricted? A magpie emptied a nest of swallows in my stable last summer then found a way into my tackroom and helped itself to my hens' eggs. Another magpie emptied the nest of blackbirds in my garden a few years ago but let's pick on cats.
Click to expand...
I live in the suburbs an there used to be quite a lot of small birds and bats about.The bat's vanished after the massive dense hedge that surrounded a garden was removed and replaced with metal fencing and people have been making dormers in the lofts.
The birds have gone since magpies have started nesting in a big tree a few houses away about 2 years ago. They seem to have been destroying nests and eating young birds and now all I get in the garden are the magpies, occasional gulls and pigeons. The number of pigeons has fallen this year though.
 
Parrotperson said:
That’s nature happening though.

Cats are not a naturally thing for birds to cope with.
Click to expand...
it might be nature happening but the end result of a dead bird is the same.
I have around 20 nests of swallows, all will have either eggs or birds in them and there will be 2 sittings. I am overwhelmed with magpies. . Swallow nests usually have 4 young, That is 4 deaths each time a magpie gets in. The parents can do nothing to protect the young. ch year they move their nests ever further into the buildings for protection and still the bliddy things get in.

So if the aim is to preserve birds by restricting cats what are we going to do about the magpie problem?
maya2008 said:
In the countryside where pheasants are shot and there is feed down all the time, the rat population in particular can be a little explosive!
Click to expand...

that is very true. I used to feed the birds corn on my front lawn. It didn't take long for me to be seeing rats there. Stopped and no rats in that area at least. We are in the middle of a shoot with a lot of corn in feeders. I'm sure the rats love it.

Fransurrey said:
I also can't remember where I read it, but it was proposed that development has damaged the wildlife populations far more than cats (or dogs). I can well believe it. Even in our established village, we are getting more and more people moving in who are removing hedges because they're hassle to maintain, or putting in fake lawns, or tarmacing what was once a dirt track. New developments have mono-culture token lawns and nothing else. We share our drive with a neighbour and they wanted us to remove the central grass strip because the grass brushed the underside of her stupid car that runs on rubber bands. We said no, although we have noticed that they've removed it on the bit just outside their house. They've also cut down mature trees because they didn't like the excess leaves in the autumn. Not convinced cats are the issue...humans yes.
Click to expand...
this. Let's start looking at the real problem rather than worrying about cats.

Parrotperson said:
Cats kill millions of birds every year. Millions. Anywhere between 25 and 50 million. (Accounting TO the RSPB)
Click to expand...
somewhat of a different in estimates. :eek: how can they possibly know with any degree of accuracy.
 
Miss_Millie said:
To answer the above message, a blanket ban on outdoor cats would be akin to a blanket ban on dogs walking off leash. Do you think that's fair to the responsible owners with dogs with a good recall who don't maul sheep?
Click to expand...
Not a good comparison.

Dogs are legally required to be under control at all times; even off leash, they are not allowed to distress wildlife or livestock, and irresponsible owners can therefore face repercussions if their dog does distress another animal. In contrast, outdoor cats are allowed to do whatever they want - but why shouldn't they also be legally required to be under control? No law means that if an irresponsible cat owner's cat was killing hundreds of birds every month, there would be no legal means to protect local birds.

You may be a responsible owner but I also know people who claim their cat would never hurt a bird, and yet I've watched that very same cat kill a tit in the garden. Realistically, you have no way of knowing what your cat does when he's out and about, and even if you're right that he's not killing birds, hunting, no matter how successful, will still distress them.

And it's not like a change in legislation means your cat has to be condemned to spending its life in one room. In my area in London, we've got quite a few local cat owners who take their cats for walks (or strolls in a pram in one case) instead of risking their lives by letting them roam in an urban environment with busy roads.

ETA: Plus I don't see why there shouldn't be a geographically limited ban on outdoor cats focused on areas with vulnerable bird or wildcat populations.
 
I don't currently keep cats, although do ask my partner fairly regularly to give in and let me have a Siamese 🙈

I have always been very pro allowing cats to roam and accepted the associated risks, however my mum got a couple of kittens a few years back now and built a cat run thing in the garden; I'll be damned if I can remember what they're called 🤦‍♀️ anyway, they seem perfectly happy and content just accessing the house and a portion of the garden for a sun bathe.

I would certainly support a cat curfew, but not an outright ban.
 
Cats are great pets restricting ownership is wrong. I’d never live somewhere where I was told what pets I could have. My little Sydney was a prolific bird killer but we kept him in dawn and dusk and tried our best to limit his murderpus ways! He did slow down as he got older. He was always in overnight too. It’s about responsible ownership. The world’s gone mad!
 
stangs said:
Dogs are legally required to be under control at all times; even off leash, they are not allowed to distress wildlife or livestock, and irresponsible owners can therefore face repercussions if their dog does distress another animal.

And it's not like a change in legislation means your cat has to be condemned to spending its life in one room. In my area in London, we've got quite a few local cat owners who take their cats for walks (or strolls in a pram in one case) instead of risking their lives by letting them roam in an urban environment with busy roads.

ETA: Plus I don't see why there shouldn't be a geographically limited ban on outdoor cats focused on areas with vulnerable bird or wildcat populations.
Click to expand...
but dogs are not under control. Did you miss my link above? or people whose out of control dogs have maimed or killed or the accidents they have caused.

If people take their cats for walks in London on leads why not lead dogs?

if you are a bird would you notice if you were killed by a domestic moggy or a wild cat? or are wild cats trained not to kill birds (or any other creatures)

o what is going to control the rat/mouse population if cats are restricted and presumably all ferals would be totally obliterated (presuming they could be found :D)
 
Parrotperson said:
There was (although I can’t find a link) a program on the telly as few years back about indoor cats as opposed to outdoor cats and it found (scientifically I believe) that indoor cats are actually much happier than outdoor ones because of the stress of being outdoors.
Click to expand...

I cannot believe this to be true from my own experience. Maybe if cats were conditioned from birth to be indoors then it would be a different matter, but for example my friend has a rescue who was found as a stray, who became crazy and depressed when she had to be shut in for a few weeks because of moving house + being spayed. The cat was climbing the walls, yowling and body-slamming against the windows. When she moved house again, she only managed to keep her indoors for a few days as the cat was so distressed. As a stray for who knows how long, the cat was used to having space and fresh air and did not cope with being shut indoors.

There would have to be some solid studies around how much exercise cats need to be physically and mentally stimulated enough. No-one would dream of keeping a dog indoors and never walking it, but also I can't see that it would be safe to walk a cat on a leash in most public areas now as there are too many dog walkers. I think that most cats need some kind of outdoor space to stretch their legs, even if it's just a catio.
 
I agree @Miss_Millie. All of my cats have gotten stressed if they’ve been closed inside and my most feral one would never be happy as an indoor cat. She’d be happier locked outside.

As you say maybe if they had never been out then they might be ok but my brother has indoor cats and they’ve all had so many health problems and constantly going to the vets for something. A catio would definitely be a good idea just to let them get fresh air.
 
palo1 said:
There has been a proposal to ban pet cats in some new housing developments -mostly in Scotland it seems. But it could be proposed more widely I guess. I understand the rationale but suspect it will be going nowhere! As there has been discussion on the issue of cats and wildlife previously on HHO, I'm interested to hear what people think about this proposal.
Click to expand...
There hasn't been any mention of a ban.

There's been a report on responsible ownership which look at different schemes around the world.

There was a mention of restrictions in highly sensitive areas with endangered specifies but it wasn't one of the recommendations.

The recommendation is another report.

"We recommend that the Scottish Ministers ask NatureScot to commission a report into the advantages and disadvantages for wildlife of introducing cat containment areas, including the definition of vulnerable areas, domestic and feral cat welfare issues, seasonal pressures, restrictions on introducing cats to households in vulnerable areas, and specific containment measures to be considered.”


www.thenational.scot

FACT CHECK: Are the SNP really considering banning cats?

CLAIM: The SNP are “to consider banning cats”. The Telegraph ...
www.thenational.scot www.thenational.scot
 
stangs said:
Not a good comparison.

Dogs are legally required to be under control at all times; even off leash, they are not allowed to distress wildlife or livestock, and irresponsible owners can therefore face repercussions if their dog does distress another animal. In contrast, outdoor cats are allowed to do whatever they want - but why shouldn't they also be legally required to be under control? No law means that if an irresponsible cat owner's cat was killing hundreds of birds every month, there would be no legal means to protect local birds.

You may be a responsible owner but I also know people who claim their cat would never hurt a bird, and yet I've watched that very same cat kill a tit in the garden. Realistically, you have no way of knowing what your cat does when he's out and about, and even if you're right that he's not killing birds, hunting, no matter how successful, will still distress them.

And it's not like a change in legislation means your cat has to be condemned to spending its life in one room. In my area in London, we've got quite a few local cat owners who take their cats for walks (or strolls in a pram in one case) instead of risking their lives by letting them roam in an urban environment with busy roads.

ETA: Plus I don't see why there shouldn't be a geographically limited ban on outdoor cats focused on areas with vulnerable bird or wildcat populations.
Click to expand...

Locally every year there are sheep being mauled and dogs going missing because they chased a rabbit and never came back. Someone's dog had to have an eye removed because it was mauled by another dog in the park. I have been attacked by two dogs and one of them was a border collie that spotted me from a farmyard and pursued me down a public footpath even though I was no-where near the property. I doubt farmers would want to keep their 'working dogs' on a lead and that was the most aggressive dog I have ever encountered. All of these people are what I would describe as irresponsible owners. Accident happens, but also many people want a dog but don't want to put the time into training or use their common sense.

Once OH and I were sat in the park eating takeaway and watching a poor couple try to get their dog toy back from another dog. Said dog had been running riot over the whole park and we were none the wiser to who the owner was. A good hour later she materialised and it turned out she had been watching her son play football at the other end of the park, let the dog off the lead and that was that! On the same day we had half of our takeaway stolen by another off lead dog who dived onto our picnic blanket, scattering food everywhere and taking some with him. The owners were a pin prick in the distance and the damage had been done by the time they reached us.

I'm sure that some cats are happy being kept indoors, but many aren't. Where I used to live, it would not be even remotely safe to walk a cat in the local park. Far too many off lead dogs with no boundaries and owners nowhere to be seen. I'm not saying that people should just let their cats run riot, but arguably cats are not a danger to people and other animals in the way that many dogs are. People need to use their common sense in terms of hunting habits and if they live in a safe enough area for the cat to not be in danger of cars.
 
Peglo said:
I agree @Miss_Millie. All of my cats have gotten stressed if they’ve been closed inside and my most feral one would never be happy as an indoor cat. She’d be happier locked outside.

As you say maybe if they had never been out then they might be ok but my brother has indoor cats and they’ve all had so many health problems and constantly going to the vets for something. A catio would definitely be a good idea just to let them get fresh air.
Click to expand...

It would be considered a welfare offence for a dog not to be walked, but I can't imagine with the number of dogs that it would be safe to walk a cat in most places. My cat doesn't go far, he likes his home comforts too. But he also likes to sunbathe outside in the summer and just watch the world go by with the breeze on his face. I can't think of many animals who would be happier indoors vs outdoors.
 
@Sandstone1 I was just about to comment how similar the pro-outdoor cat people sound compared to pro-hunting people from circa 2003.

"It's natural"
"What about the other species/birds/dogs doing harm?"
"It's fine in moderation"
"They don't actually catch many"

Just waiting for the cry of 'it's natural selection' and actually improving the bird population, then we'll have a full house!

edit- full house! Bingo!
"It's survival of the fittest"
 
When we moved here we saw barn owls frequently
Now that we have neighbouring cats (which I see in my fields, presumably hunting voles) the barn owls have become rare visitors
 
scats said:
It does amuse me how annoyed people get at cats killing birds, yet they have no problem with them killing rats or mice.

Here’s a thought- want to stop the needless killing of wildlife? Stop destroying fields and woodlands to build more houses for the benefit of the biggest animal killers of all.
Click to expand...

This is the cognitive dissonance that I struggle to wrap my head around. My cat probably catches 2 mice a year - he's that rubbish and unbothered about hunting. He would be hopeless as a yard cat. But I find it genuinely upsetting if he catches and injures a mouse - just as much as if it were a bird. The only difference is people's perception - both are wildlife. I think it's fair enough to say that we as a species have taken over to the point that most imbalances in nature are because of our continuous sprawl and destruction of the natural world. Keeping cats as pets is part of the problem, but only a fragment of a much bigger picture.
 
criso said:
There hasn't been any mention of a ban.

There's been a report on responsible ownership which look at different schemes around the world.

There was a mention of restrictions in highly sensitive areas with endangered specifies but it wasn't one of the recommendations.

The recommendation is another report.

"We recommend that the Scottish Ministers ask NatureScot to commission a report into the advantages and disadvantages for wildlife of introducing cat containment areas, including the definition of vulnerable areas, domestic and feral cat welfare issues, seasonal pressures, restrictions on introducing cats to households in vulnerable areas, and specific containment measures to be considered.”


www.thenational.scot

FACT CHECK: Are the SNP really considering banning cats?

CLAIM: The SNP are “to consider banning cats”. The Telegraph ...
www.thenational.scot www.thenational.scot
Click to expand...
You got there before me. The framing of the story is just the usual clickbait garbage, designed to attack the SNP and create a confected social media storm (they'll be banning dogs next!!!!!! etc, etc). It's so exhausting.
 
If anyone is wanting a solution to having your cat still being able to go outside whenever they want I can recommend cat fencing. We were lucky and got it secondhand off Facebook and it fitted out garden perfectly, even had the right number of gates. I think it would be quite easy to make it more cheaply yourself than buying new from the companies. Having said which we do have a feral who manages to get in and out but I think he's a witches cat as he just vanished in front of my eyes one time 😂
 
Parrotperson said:
Cats kill millions of birds every year. Millions. Anywhere between 25 and 50 million. (Accounting TO the RSPB)
Click to expand...
I thought that study had been discredited? At work so don't have time to google but I thought they extrapolated something that was nonsense. Will try and find out later.

I've only ever known 2 cats catch birds and both were from feral litters. One just took pigeons and ate them if you were late with breakfast. The other decided our local magpie population needing pest control - I did catch him up a tree once looking at the Canadian geese flying overhead so I think he had ideas far above the local songbird population.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top