Pet cats - proposal to ban in places.

[Asha]

We had a thread running the other week about winter turnout for horses. With so many saying that horses should be out 24/7, being confined to a stable is wrong. Yet here we are saying cats should be kept indoors.
Our cats are outdoor cats, they always will be. They have a job to do, and thats pest control. We still have a lots of birds in our garden, and like paddy555 an abundance of swallows that return. A lot of the swallows where killed 2 years ago, but that was by the magpies. They decimated the nests. The swallows learnt from this and have nested further up the eaves where the magpies cant get them.

I very nearly sacked Reggie the semi feral the other week as i found a mouse in the stables, which was terrifying ( and most unusual) . The little blighter smelt my fear and started jumping around in front of me. Cue me screaming like a fishwife. Reggie you are sacked you useless fat cat. To be fair to him, he turned up with his usual swagger ( followed by proper feral Dibley) . Gave me his side eye look and got on with the job. He then presented said scary mouse to his friend Dibley , who after 5 mins of playtime ate said scarey mouse . Normal service resumed.

 

[Peglo]

We had a thread running the other week about winter turnout for horses. With so many saying that horses should be out 24/7, being confined to a stable is wrong. Yet here we are saying cats should be kept indoors.
Our cats are outdoor cats, they always will be. They have a job to do, and thats pest control. We still have a lots of birds in our garden, and like paddy555 an abundance of swallows that return.

I had wrote something along that lines but didn’t post it as people who hate cats just won’t agree. Mine would have a miserable life if locked inside as they started out as ferals and hate feeling inclosed.
I would rather people think I’m uncaring (which couldn’t be further from the truth) than enforce unhappiness on my cats to please them.

 

[scats]

We had a thread running the other week about winter turnout for horses. With so many saying that horses should be out 24/7, being confined to a stable is wrong. Yet here we are saying cats should be kept indoors.
Our cats are outdoor cats, they always will be.

I’m another who doesn’t like the thought of having cats and keeping them indoors. We are so hung up on the three F’s for horses, because that’s what is important to them in the wild. Roaming is important to cats, and an innate behaviour, so surely from a welfare point of view, we should be enabling cats to have some form of outdoor time.

My cats adore summer days out in the front and back gardens, sunbathing and rolling on the grass. I can’t imagine keeping the poor things stuck in the house.

 

[AutumnDays]

I think legally (and I may be making this up) you don’t have to keep cats under control. Aren’t they covered by different laws to dogs which is why you have to stop if you hit a dog with a car but not a cat.
I may be writing rubbish but I’m sure they are different.

No that is true. I think that should change though.

 

[Exasperated]

We had a thread running the other week about winter turnout for horses. With so many saying that horses should be out 24/7, being confined to a stable is wrong. Yet here we are saying cats should be kept indoors.
Our cats are outdoor cats, they always will be. They have a job to do, and thats pest control. We still have a lots of birds in our garden, and like paddy555 an abundance of swallows that return. A lot of the swallows where killed 2 years ago, but that was by the magpies. They decimated the nests. The swallows learnt from this and have nested further up the eaves where the magpies cant get them.

I very nearly sacked Reggie the semi feral the other week as i found a mouse in the stables, which was terrifying ( and most unusual) . The little blighter smelt my fear and started jumping around in front of me. Cue me screaming like a fishwife. Reggie you are sacked you useless fat cat. To be fair to him, he turned up with his usual swagger ( followed by proper feral Dibley) . Gave me his side eye look and got on with the job. He then presented said scary mouse to his friend Dibley , who after 5 mins of playtime ate said scarey mouse . Normal service resumed.

Same, and even more swallow nests since cats have reduced the wretched rats - which can climb walls, go along the rafters, beams, attack the nests and eat the eggs and chicks - that was really vile.
Something else which fights rats are weasels, we’ve a colony of wall dwellers produce serious squeaking when they go down rat holes.
However, the ornithologist says that both rats and weasels maraud lapwing nests, also baby hares, along with the sod*ing badgers....(few foxes now, badgers have seen them all off)

 

[Exasperated]

I think legally (and I may be making this up) you don’t have to keep cats under control. Aren’t they covered by different laws to dogs which is why you have to stop if you hit a dog with a car but not a cat.
I may be writing rubbish but I’m sure they are different.

That is correct.

 

[AutumnDays]

I’m another who doesn’t like the thought of having cats and keeping them indoors. We are so hung up on the three F’s for horses, because that’s what is important to them in the wild. Roaming is important to cats, and an innate behaviour, so surely from a welfare point of view, we should be enabling cats to have some form of outdoor time.

My cats adore summer days out in the front and back gardens, sunbathing and rolling on the grass. I can’t imagine keeping the poor things stuck in the house.

I don't agree with keeping them indoors all the time. I agree they should be out enjoying their gardens too. But not my garden! I know this has gone off the original topic of them hunting wildlife, which rats count as and I have no complaints against a good ratter, the terrier being one! And the only time I have seen wanton destruction of wildlife by cats is when I was still in the veterinary field, and a client who lived in a SSSI for ground nesting birds had 14 cats who would decimate all the nests (owner would bring in chick carcasses or barely alive ones asking if there was anything we could do for the poor things ) that's where I think that people's choice of pet means they should be responsible for them, and I include that to confining them to your property, not necessarily indoors, a "catio" etc

 

[paddy555]

Good cats are worth their weight in gold.
Our neighbours had a dedicated mole-fiend: ignored chicks , ducklings, easy pickings - but used to lie in wait, listening intently at the ground, and catch the blighters as they emerged. Daily corpses, best count was FOURTEEN(!); including winter, only stopped by ice and snow; and he completely cleared three hay fields before sadly being run over.
His full brother (still going) specialises in rats, also brings the trophies home, but not a feather been seen.

there is probably no limit to what I would pay for a mole fiend cat ATM. If it was keen on magpies as well that would be heaven.

 

[scats]

I don't agree with keeping them indoors all the time. I agree they should be out enjoying their gardens too. But not my garden! I know this has gone off the original topic of them hunting wildlife, which rats count as and I have no complaints against a good ratter, the terrier being one! And the only time I have seen wanton destruction of wildlife by cats is when I was still in the veterinary field, and a client who lived in a SSSI for ground nesting birds had 14 cats who would decimate all the nests (owner would bring in chick carcasses or barely alive ones asking if there was anything we could do for the poor things ) that's where I think that people's choice of pet means they should be responsible for them, and I include that to confining them to your property, not necessarily indoors, a "catio" etc

I think making a garden cat safe is a good idea. We live on the corner of a quiet no-through road, but it still scares me sometimes because I know they cross that road. I have looked into making the garden cat safe.
I just can’t stand the thought of cats who don’t ever experience fresh air or daylight.

 

[Shady]

there is probably no limit to what I would pay for a mole fiend cat ATM.

Oh god me too Paddy. Flippin things are destroying my fields
Today I kicked over /spread out over 30 hills in one field and 15 around the house
I've 5 cats and all except 1 are completely useless at catching anything except falling leaves

 

[malwhit]

I agree with having to do something where cats are a problem killing birds and wildlife

I like the idea of Catios or even cat proofing your garden so that your cats can't get out or others in.

Being a dog owner all my life, i can't imagine not knowing where your pet is or what it is doing.

Would banning them increase the number of magpies and grey squirrels?

I would have a better idea to save birds - stop building on green belt land and pulling woodlands down. Then reduce the growth of the human population so that new houses don't need to be built.

 

[cauda equina]

It doesn't have to be either/or though
We could both improve protection for green spaces and people could take measures to know where their cats are and what they are doing

 

[Clodagh]

No that is true. I think that should change though.

It’s legally right but morally wrong.

 

[Clodagh]

I had wrote something along that lines but didn’t post it as people who hate cats just won’t agree. Mine would have a miserable life if locked inside as they started out as ferals and hate feeling inclosed.
I would rather people think I’m uncaring (which couldn’t be further from the truth) than enforce unhappiness on my cats to please them.

It’s the unhappiness your cats may be putting on your neighbours that’s my main bugbear.

I just think people should be responsible. If your cat kills someone’s pet, digs up their garden, attacks their cat, you should be liable. (Not just you, you!).
I think if cat owners had to have liability for them they would be a lot less entitled.

 

[Steerpike]

there is probably no limit to what I would pay for a mole fiend cat ATM. If it was keen on magpies as well that would be heaven.

I have three cats and one of them is a mole fiend, I've found a handful over the last couple of years, they are one of the creatures they don't eat for some reason but leave me them as a present

 

[Exasperated]

there is probably no limit to what I would pay for a mole fiend cat ATM. If it was keen on magpies as well that would be heaven.

I wish! OH threatened to catnap or seduce theirs away. Never interested in any kind of bird, tho, was definitely a specialist!

 

[Exasperated]

I’m ok then… I’m pro hunting and anti cat!

Although that’s not fair I just want cat owners to be held responsible for their pets.

I’m sure no one believes me that next doors cat killed my bantams. But it happened. I barely got a sorry.

My dog has been infected with toxoplasmosis. Yes she shouldn’t eat cat shit, but it’s on my lawn.

Yes, but our cattle have aborted from neospora, and toxocara canis causes eye tumours in children grazing their knees on ground where it was deposited years before....
I can’t stand cat shit either, but it’s unlikely next door’s cat distinguishes your bantams from general prey, or understands your property deeds - possibly it disagrees with ‘your’ manicured lawn within ‘their’ territory of patrol? Different frame of reference!
We have to protect our livestock from predators - foxes, hawks, cats, dogs, whatever - and frankly, there is far less overall damage by cats than by dogs.
I am a dog lover, but there are simply too many of them and too few people who know how to deal with them. That ‘research’ on domestic cats killing zillions of songbirds was shown wildly inaccurate, but human activity is FAR more impactful on nature anyway - whether building houses, farming land, flying abroad, creating herbaceous borders or waging wars.

 

[Clodagh]

I can’t stand cat shit either, but it’s unlikely next door’s cat distinguishes your bantams from general prey, or understands your property deeds - possibly it disagrees with ‘your’ manicured lawn within ‘their’ territory of patrol? Different frame of reference!
We have to protect our livestock from predators - foxes, hawks, cats, dogs, whatever - and frankly, there is far less overall damage by cats than by dogs.

I could put money on someone saying, at some point, that as no one has to stop their cat killing things it’s my job to stop it killing my birds. I knew it. I have given up breeding those small breeds of bantam that it liked hunting, is that sufficient?
I accept the cat doesn’t care if it’s my garden WHICH US WHY ITS OWNERS NEED TO CONTROL IT.

 

[Exasperated]

I could put money on someone saying, at some point, that as no one has to stop their cat killing things it’s my job to stop it killing my birds. I knew it. I have given up breeding those small breeds of bantam that it liked hunting, is that sufficient?
I accept the cat doesn’t care if it’s my garden WHICH US WHY ITS OWNERS NEED TO CONTROL IT.

?? I think you simply need to keep your bantams safe - aviary? Hen run? Barn? Leave your dog loose to guard them in the yard? Whatever you do against foxes?
As a child, we had a cat who brought home two large guinea pigs on successive afternoons. My mother rescued one, bitten but salvageable, and made enquiries. Was from a ‘fancy breeder’ about half a mile away, we returned the survivor, apologised and recompensed the other, and were taken to see the hutches - lots of whistling, rustling little temptations, behind the flimsiest netting. Mother pointed this out, plus that the cat knew exactly where they were.
Later that day he turned up with another, and my parents point blank refused to compensate again.
Cats do NOT have the same relationship with ‘owners’ that dogs do, despite having lived with humans for millennia, nor the same relationship with others of their own species that dogs do. That perimeter wall you regard as a boundary, cats will see and use as a convenient highway..... sorry about your fowl.

 

[Clodagh]

?? I think you simply need to keep your bantams safe - aviary? Hen run? Barn? Leave your dog loose to guard them in the yard? Whatever you do against foxes?
As a child, we had a cat who brought home two large guinea pigs on successive afternoons. My mother rescued one, bitten but salvageable, and made enquiries. Was from a ‘fancy breeder’ about half a mile away, we returned the survivor, apologised and recompensed the other, and were taken to see the hutches - lots of whistling, rustling little temptations, behind the flimsiest netting. Mother pointed this out, plus that the cat knew exactly where they were.
Later that day he turned up with another, and my parents point blank refused to compensate again.
Cats do NOT have the same relationship with ‘owners’ that dogs do, despite having lived with humans for millennia, nor the same relationship with others of their own species that dogs do. That perimeter wall you regard as a boundary, cats will see and use as a convenient highway..... sorry about your fowl.

You are exactly the sort of cat owner who needs legislating against!

 

[stangs]

Can you imagine the rage if I said sheep farmers should start keeping their sheep safe instead of blaming out of control dogs for killing them?

Can you imagine the rage if I said people shouldn’t get upset if dogs foul on their lawn because dogs don’t understand garden boundaries, they just see a convenient place to sh*t?

 

[Clodagh]

Can you imagine the rage if I said sheep farmers should start keeping their sheep safe instead of blaming out of control dogs for killing them?

Can you imagine the rage if I said people shouldn’t get upset if dogs foul on their lawn because dogs don’t understand garden boundaries, they just see a convenient place to sh*t?

Exactly, so Exasperated says my hens should not be allowed out so next doors cat can free range. Why does anyone think that’s right?

 

[Keith_Beef]

Crikey, this thread has got legs!

 

[Peglo]

Can you imagine the rage if I said sheep farmers should start keeping their sheep safe instead of blaming out of control dogs for killing them?

Can you imagine the rage if I said people shouldn’t get upset if dogs foul on their lawn because dogs don’t understand garden boundaries, they just see a convenient place to sh*t?

I was told on this forum I should fence off my whole property to stop dogs attacking my hens. That would be a what? 6ft fence plus underground to stop dogs from getting in?
When I said I couldn’t afford to spend thousands of pounds on fencing I never imagined I should need to put up because folk won’t put their dogs on leads I was then accused of not looking after my horses. My fields had just been refenced (thats money you expect to spend when you have horses) and I’d rather keep money aside for emergencies for them than fencing I shouldn’t have to put up but hey, that’s the forum.

For what it’s worth @Clodagh I am very sorry you lost your hens. I would be devastated if my cats did that and would hope to make an arrangement to avoid it happening again. It must be hard enough with the wildlife you get down there (which we don’t have here)
Don’t worry about my neighbours though. They have/had 5 cats and 2 dogs and my cats are terrified of strangers so don’t venture over there so I don’t think we should be causing them too much unhappiness.

 

[Dave's Mam]

2 of my cats would have been very unhappy to be kept in. My tomcat, even after being shot & beaten up by horrible children, declined to be indoors. He'd howl to go out. He loved to sunbathe in the garden.
My other most recent queen cat was a rescue who was found in a hedge with a ltter of kittens at barely 8 months old. She didn't stray far from her garden, but she liked to have the option. This absolute "Queen" was also witnessed seeing off a fox that dared to walk into HER garden. That was impressive.

Pic of the pellet removed from the tomcat's side. He was a lucky boy.

 

[Kirstineridesagain]

The 'right to roam' for cats is now so outdated. So many get killed on our ever increasingly busy roads.

We get 5/6 of the local cats in our large garden, sitting at the bottom of trees or sitting near bushes just waiting for a bird to appear Our dogs have to go out on a lead first, so make sure the coast is clear before they can visit their own garden, it's getting ridiculous. There needs to be more accountability for cat owners to encourage them to keep their pets in their own gardens, just not sure how they go about it

If I see a cat in the garden and my dog wants to chase it, I let him. Not a fan of cat poo in our garden.

I’m not a cat person, but still don’t like banning things I disagree with. Having said that, cats seem to go missing or hit by cars all the time, and yes, they do kill birds, millions of them. So maybe it should just become frowned upon to have cats in suburbs/towns/cities? I’m sure they’re handy on a farm…

 

[Dave's Mam]

What criteria need to be met for a cat to be "useful" rather than "dangerous to wildlife"?

 

[Miss_Millie]

I think there's way too much nuance for the indoor/outdoor cat argument to actually be black and white. I live in the back end of nowhere, my cat doesn't leave my garden but could easily roam for miles if he wanted to. The average cat roams 40 - 200 metres from home, which would look very different in the countryside vs a city suburb.

Would I let my cat have free rein outdoors if he was bringing in birds every day? No
Would I let my cat have free rein if he was in danger of being on a fast road? No
Would I let my cat have free rein if he was knowingly causing a significant nuisance to the neighbours? No

As it so happens, I'm surrounded by fields with no near neighbours, with almost no traffic passing by, and my cat is so rubbish at hunting that earlier today I watched him sit in the middle of the yard as the rat I've been trying to humanely trap for weeks scurried in front of him and he didn't bat an eyelid. He is a useless predator! But I think he gets loads of enrichment from a few hours outside every day, and my last outdoor cat lived to age 20. I think it's unfair to say people who let their cats outdoors are uncaring. Culturally it is the norm in most of Europe, whether it should be or not - people are entitled to their opinion.

As an aside, where I live, I would not keep any small prey animals outside without a fox-proof enclosure. We have plenty of foxes and birds of prey around here which would certainly target any small furries left unprotected. I agree that it is completely unacceptable for any domestic pet to be entering someone's garden to attack their pets, but I would be more worried about wild predators, at least in my area.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

My opinion on cats is never popular but the stupidity of some cat owners astounds me. Cats should be kept indoors or a catio type thing. Indoor cats don't get run over, shot at, attacked by other animals, shit in other people's gardens, kill wildlife of any variety or get lost/stolen. Our local village page is full of lost cats (some of the lost cats are repeat offenders for sodding off), cats invading other people's houses, cats that have been run over etc...why risk a supposedly beloved pet?? If you can't keep it contained and safe then don't get one surely?

That's exactly why ours are indoor only, I couldn't bear the thought of them getting attacked/stolen/run over etc, the posters for missing cats are so upsetting, the not knowing as well... plus some of the awful things you hear about people doing to them, why would I want to open them up to all that risk?

I'd never have anything other than indoor cats, and have since I was a teenager, my parents are the same

I never see the ones "in action" that s**the all over our garden, if i did i would go out there flapping my arms and growling, because I'm sick of picking up other people's often runny, cat's s**t. It actually makes me gag, and im left with an astro that is now not fit for purpose because its continually getting s**t on! There's no way I'd let a child play on there now, and im all for allowing a bit of mud and dirt! Not cat c**p though. I won't even allow our cats on the astro when we have them in the garden on their harnesses, as I have no idea if the culprits are wormed/vaccinated/if they are carrying anything (ours are regularly wormed/flead and vaccinated despite being indoor only). However I don't want to take the risk of them picking something up!

 

[horsimous]

Even though one of the neighbours now has three cats and one of them recently Sh1t in my tulip container, I’d still not support a cat ban!