PETA trying to ban horseriding

[Birker2020]

Captive orcas are also known to self harm to the point of death, I don't think anyone is disputing that cetaceans across the board are all highly emotional. .

Yes if anyone is in doubt of what you have said there, they should watch Blackfish on Netflix. Very interesting and thought provoking documentary.

 

[smolmaus]

I would very much argue horses don’t feel grief. After I had my TB put to sleep my haffie was ok until she was taken away to be buried and then for the first time in 18 years of owning her my haffie called for her best friend and was lost for a day or 2 without her. She’s always been very unsociable with horses but she felt that loss and it was heartbreaking to see.

Yes, grief is a weird one to say doesn't apply to horses as they have a very obvious, observable grieving process.

 

[littleshetland]

Coming soon I suspect.....a computer programme that is able to translate thoughts and emotions of animals directly onto a screen near you.

 

[skinnydipper]

I mean in the sense that apart from dolphins, which science has proven recognise themselves as an an ‘I’d’ ie Greek for ego (basically having a sense of consciousness) other animals of course experience reactions to things but have no concept of themselves in relation to the rest of existence, hence cannot experience grief, anxiety in the same sense as humans and a minority of other animals do

Different animals rely on different senses. Take dogs, for instance, they fail the mirror test but then vision is not their primary sense, but they can identify their own odour.

Dogs are also capable of expressing emotions such as fearfulness, anxiety, elation, anger, etc. and communicate how they are feeling through body language and vocalisation.

 

[Smoky 2022]

I would disagree that animals don’t have feelings because I can actually read my animals very well and I know when someone is wrong. Yeah horse do feel grief they are animals that stay together in the wild. Op that’s a lame arrangement and is proving PETA point it’s selfish attitude. People need to lose the old way of thinking if we want this sport to survive. Also scientist also say that because when they test on animals that’s cleares there mind and not make them feel bad because the tests they do is extreme animal abuse.

 

[theiberianshow]

In the online news I read that PETA is trying to ban horseriding. One quote is ‘If we look honestly at our relationship with horses, we must acknowledge that the decision to take part in horseback riding is made solely by one individual with little benefit to and no input from the other’. Unbelievable.
Just shows how they have no understanding of how good horse owners have a unique bond with their horses and how much their horses love their ‘work’. Some of PETA’s principles are a little more understandable (killing endangered animals for a handbag) but come on. They claim to love animals but clearly have spent zero time around good, caring horse owners. Yes there are bad owners and they should be dealt with. There are also bad parents does that mean we stop procreating the human race? I find this bizarre and not just because I’m a rider who spoils her horse rotten and knows him well enough to know he is happy. Thoughts??

interesting because in the past few days we have been inundated with people on The Iberian Show page accusing us of all sorts - abuse, cruelty, should be banned, being evil etc etc. Now we have some of the best riders in the world coming to star in our shows which makes it even more offensive, many of them such beautiful gentle riders. I am responding to them all individually then hiding the comments so people cant see them!

 

[Mrs B]

PETA are one of the minority, shouty, scream-y groups that media outlets go to for the extreme 'other view point' to the norm.

Like the transphobia shouty people and the vegan meat-eaters-are-evil shouty people.

The majority are silent on these issues because they are taken aback by such undeserved vitriol - being generally good, well-meaning individuals who have a brain and can think their way through such thorny issues with a modicum of intelligence and come to their own conclusions, with at least one foot based in reality.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

PETA are one of the minority, shouty, scream-y groups that media outlets go to for the extreme 'other view point' to the norm.

Like the transphobia shouty people and the vegan meat-eaters-are-evil shouty people.

The majority are silent on these issues because they are taken aback by such undeserved vitriol - being generally good, well-meaning individuals who have a brain and can think their way through such thorny issues with a modicum of intelligence and come to their own conclusions, with at least one foot based in reality.

Totally agree

If you disagree with PETA’s views, then the best thing to do is to stop making threads about them.

Let them fade into irrelevance, where most normal people categorise them anyway.

 

[Juniper Jack]

PETA have lots of weird and whacky stuff that they campaign for. I frankly find them to be stupidly OTT. I tend to ignore anything PETA related, personally. It's like the Bible thumpers...very OTT imo and not worth my energy. 2 years ago a PETA member was protesting the slaughter of animals for meat outside of a slaughterhouse and was killed by a transport truck in Ontario. She was in the wrong - she was standing in a known blind spot of the truck driver when she was struck yet the outrage from activists was that the truck driver was in the wrong and she was an innocent protestor.

All that said, they do have a slight point however I do notice a change in my horse's attitude after he has worked and I do wonder if exercise releases endorphins for horses like exercise does in people. Said horse though, is fairly happy to just be a pasture ornament but so are so many people (sofa ornament).

Oh, good, it is so much cooler to be a sofa ornament instead of a couch potato.

 

[J&S]

no input from the other’.

horses not consenting?

I think that horses definitely have "input" into their situation and also I think that they do "consent". I think you particularly see this among top Show jumpers and event horses. You also see it at the other end of the scale with saintly childrens ponies, or RDA horses and ponies.

Taking changes to the world, environment and climate change into consideration people may yet have to go back to using the horse as transport, then there will be no chance of a horse consenting. TBH I think most horses and ponies have it pretty good at this moment in time, though I dont approve of the over topped show horses, knackered polo ponies or of course the poor creatures worked to death abroad. (to name a few instances). I can see no reasoning in wanting for ban horse riding, in general, for the sake of the horse.

 

[moon_and_spoon]

This post is very interesting. Ever since I got my first horse this has been playing through the back of my mind- Every time I interact with her I wonder if she is really enjoying my company and often feel sick to my stomach about it.
But I continue to ride and do what I do because it's 'normal'. If I didn't say bring her down to ride her, groom her, take her for a walk what would she do? The irrational part of me thinks 'she must get bored' 'she needs her exercise' and whilst I know that she seems a bit duller when left sat in her field for a week I still question the morality of what I'm doing by sitting on her back. The fact that she may be just playing along because she sees no other choice breaks my heart to think about; I love my girl and I honestly just want her to be happy and healthy.

I'm going to start an experiment tomorrow. Every time she shows the slightest hint of discomfort, uneasiness, displays anything remotely 'naughty' I will stop what I'm doing. I need to know how she really feels before both of us get totally miserable; we'll see just to what extent my horse 'sucks it up' and hopefully over time I can find a way that gives her ultimate choice, whether or not that includes riding.

 

[stangs]

Yes if anyone is in doubt of what you have said there, they should watch Blackfish on Netflix. Very interesting and thought provoking documentary.

A word of caution to anyone who does choose to watch Blackfish: it’s not wrong in raising criticism of captive cetaceans, but it’s also not a particularly reliable source of information (see here). It was designed to be highly emotive, with a blatant narrative, and it does not discuss or even mention any information that opposes this narrative. By all means, watch it but watch it critically.

 

[shortstuff99]

Still a bit sh*t for the whales though.

 

[Caol Ila]

A word of caution to anyone who does choose to watch Blackfish: it’s not wrong in raising criticism of captive cetaceans, but it’s also not a particularly reliable source of information (see here). It was designed to be highly emotive, with a blatant narrative, and it does not discuss or even mention any information that opposes this narrative. By all means, watch it but watch it critically.

Who wrote that? SeaWorld's lawyers? Because it reads like it doesn't have an agenda at all. I don't think that unattributed document absolves SeaWorld of the problems associated with keeping orcas in captivity, however hard it tries.

 

[sbloom]

I'm going to start an experiment tomorrow. Every time she shows the slightest hint of discomfort, uneasiness, displays anything remotely 'naughty' I will stop what I'm doing. I need to know how she really feels before both of us get totally miserable; we'll see just to what extent my horse 'sucks it up' and hopefully over time I can find a way that gives her ultimate choice, whether or not that includes riding.

I would follow a structured approach from one of the R+ type trainers, Dorothy Heffernan is one I follow on FB. I think understanding how to gain consent, how to watch reactions, is critical.

 

[stangs]

Who wrote that? SeaWorld's lawyers? Because it reads like it doesn't have an agenda at all. I don't think that unattributed document absolves SeaWorld of the problems associated with keeping orcas in captivity, however hard it tries.

Yes, that was written by SeaWorld and has an agenda, and, yes, it’s difficult to justify the keeping of killer whales in captivity given the serious welfare concerns. I personally believe killer whales should be phased out of captivity.

My point was just that Blackfish isn’t reliable, hence my comment to watch it critically. It makes some claims which are true; it makes some claims which have no scientific basis (ironically, any research to prove them would likely happen at SeaWorld). It holds a very black-and-white view on keeping killer whales in captivity, feeding the viewer one line of thinking alone, with little discussion of how welfare could feasibly be improved in captivity. Thus, it doesn’t do much to help the orcas or inspire productive debate.

I won’t derail this thread any longer, but I will add that anyone interested in having more than a surface level understanding of this topic is better off reading the literature. There’s lots of it out there, some damming, some less so, allowing one to form a more comprehensive understanding of what captive killer whales go through - based on research, not unverified claims.

 

[Caol Ila]

I don't think SeaWorld is all that credible, either. The film, as I recall, recognised that the current population of captive orcas are stuck there. They can't be released into the wild. It did discuss, or promote discussion, of how the welfare of those captive whales could be improved and argued for ending the breeding program, so there would be no more captive whales.

 

[SantaVera]

I hate PETA, but they do have a point here. Horses don’t get much out of it and the vast majority would be just as happy out in a field with their mates.

Agree, however as long as we have a household cavalry and king's troop I think horse riding will continue.

 

[SantaVera]

This post is very interesting. Ever since I got my first horse this has been playing through the back of my mind- Every time I interact with her I wonder if she is really enjoying my company and often feel sick to my stomach about it.
But I continue to ride and do what I do because it's 'normal'. If I didn't say bring her down to ride her, groom her, take her for a walk what would she do? The irrational part of me thinks 'she must get bored' 'she needs her exercise' and whilst I know that she seems a bit duller when left sat in her field for a week I still question the morality of what I'm doing by sitting on her back. The fact that she may be just playing along because she sees no other choice breaks my heart to think about; I love my girl and I honestly just want her to be happy and healthy.

I'm going to start an experiment tomorrow. Every time she shows the slightest hint of discomfort, uneasiness, displays anything remotely 'naughty' I will stop what I'm doing. I need to know how she really feels before both of us get totally miserable; we'll see just to what extent my horse 'sucks it up' and hopefully over time I can find a way that gives her ultimate choice, whether or not that includes riding.

It would be wonderful if all horse owners and riders were this caring.

 

[sakura]

It holds a very black-and-white view on keeping killer whales in captivity, feeding the viewer one line of thinking alone, with little discussion of how welfare could feasibly be improved in captivity. Thus, it doesn’t do much to help the orcas or inspire productive debate.

Because there is no way to improve the welfare of captive cetaceans, specifically orca. It IS a black and white matter with no room for debate. You cannot keep them in captivity and the only solution is to phase out via sea sanctuaries such as the one WDC are currently involved in.