Phillipa Dobby...(sp?)

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Maybe if PD had used a carrot stick it would have been ok?!
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I dare not say *whispers* carrot stick...... I'm frightened of the wrath of the articulate ones.
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...you know the ones that write pages and pages with really lovely long words.
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PMSL
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Maybe if PD had used a carrot stick it would have been ok?!
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Hey dont skit, I have actually tried bribing a water phobic horse into water by throwing bread in front of us, and it worked ( the orange greedy moo)!!!!! Now I hope I cant be tried for cruelty to dough based products!

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Now that I love! Hysterical - would it be considered 'outside assistance' if at a comp you could get someone to swear blind they were just feeding the ducks?!
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But you didn't practise a devils dyke at home - quite different to eventing.

They should follow in Tim Stockdales footsteps...
 
The mare did a dirty stop, and yes she might be a bit ditchy but managed to jump it fine second time around. If a horse had done such a horrible stop to me then (provided I was still on board LOL) I would probably have clouted it too.
The rearing looked worse than it was IMO, nappy naughty temper but I didn't once think it was going over, the mare seemed to have too much self preservation.
I don't doubt the rider was furious though and I do think her timing could have been better.
 
QR...Oi people, lets not get bitchy... That is extreme but then Amy Tryon thinks all of us are extreme for kicking up a fuss about LS. The line gets crossed...just people have different views on just where the line lies.
 
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But you didn't practise a devils dyke at home - quite different to eventing.

They should follow in Tim Stockdales footsteps...

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Do not follow at all how a devils dyke is much different to a coffin - rail in down a slope, ditch in the middle, rail out up a slope? Not being pedantic, just think they are v similar, which is possibly where I went wrong?
 
Again, do not follow - rail, trakehner, rail then - what's the difference? Done that schooling XC...I think you will have to spell it out to me. They are expected to jump a treble, one of which has a ditch under it. I do that XC both competing and schooling, and when I tell him to go, I expect him to do it! Poles are an irrelevance at this stage - he has seen plenty of ditches, including in combinations and more to the point when they are hidden behind a big first element and cannot be seen until he lands, so now he needs to learn that in the context of a SJ arena, he still goes, but is a bit more careful! I just do not understand how this is so different to anything he will have seen before - he is not a spooky horse, has never stopped at a filler, will jump anything you put him at, so what is the difference, why would he find it so different? By your reckoning I should buy a filler for every possible design you could ever come up with to practice over at home, which is not practical.
 
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I emailed the BBC about this . to ask if they condoned animal cruelty.The RSPCA should investigate uder the new Animal Welfare Act.
Geoff Bilington won without a whip!

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That isn't neccessary I think... Maybe I might not agree with her reaction to the horses stop, but I honestly don't consider it to be animal cruelty...
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I think a bit of a reality check might be in order here...

Firstly, PD was far from being the only rider to use her whip...hell, if you're not going to use one why bother carrying one
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There were several cases of riders giving their horse a good smack after they'd stopped, especially in the speed derby, which didn't make it onto TV.

Yes, it was unfortunate that the horse chose to throw it's toys out of the pram where it did...right in front of the grandstand and in full view of the cameras...but it did and she reprimanded it accordingly.

One may well question the wisdom of taking a 'ditchy' horse into the Derby, but you have to realise that she has qualified to be in that class by her placing in the Trial on Friday...and that course involves ditches and banks. They will also have jumped the same in the outside rings and elsewhere if they are competing at that level.

Different horses need different incentives...some respond to the 'firm' approach whereas others require a softer one...in this case the horse was taking the p155 and got a reasonable reprimand imo.

I can't comment on PD directly as I don't know her, but what a lot of people don't realise is just what does go on at home or in the outside rings to get some of these horses to jump. If you are ever in any doubt just take a stroll around the outside rings next time you're there...it ain't always pretty !
 
"he took a dislike to the devil's dyke and had all 3 bits down, and yes, I did smack him before each element, and whilst he did jump it, he did also destroy it all"

Please explain the logic of that to me.

I would have thought that if you smack a horse before he jumps he is going to get less and less inclined to jump anything at all.
 
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"he took a dislike to the devil's dyke and had all 3 bits down, and yes, I did smack him before each element, and whilst he did jump it, he did also destroy it all"

Please explain the logic of that to me.

I would have thought that if you smack a horse before he jumps he is going to get less and less inclined to jump anything at all.

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Because I could feel him backing off and he needed reminding to go forwards - mind you the point I was making was not whether I did the right thing or not, it was that how did Severnmiles know PD had not practiced over ditches for hours and the horse just needed ringcraft experience? I know this board is full of people who would never mack their horse and I open myself up to being derided for doing so, but it's your choice not to, the smae as it is my choice to use the whip.
 
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I emailed the BBC about this . to ask if they condoned animal cruelty.The RSPCA should investigate uder the new Animal Welfare Act.
Geoff Bilington won without a whip!

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You have to be joking?!

You're not an experienced horseman then?

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Seriously, whilst I dont agree with this person's (nuffield) opinion, everyone is entitiled to their own opinion & whilst you might not agree to it; comments like this are not the way to encourage a decent debate on a a controvertial issue!
 
I am going to dare to put my twopenneth in !

Yes the horse put in a dirty stop, yes it deserved a wollop (or two).... BUT her timing was out, and thus the temper tantrum of that mare... In my eyes that was self inflicted. from what I percieved the rider had also lost her temper.
The comments in my house were, "i wouldn't like to be that mare when they get out"

It is unfortunate that it was televised, as that kind of action does tend to bring out the "bunny huggers"


I am now gonna run and hide!
 
Only slowly working my way thro Hickstead video. Have now watched this incident. I think it did deserve a smack as it was a dirty stop, however my daughters instructor would have said she used the whip far too late, she was hitting the horse for standing still! Commentators commented on the mares "attitude problem" but I actually thought the rider had more of an attitude problem as she left the ring. Didn't like the way she was nagging at its mouth, looked to me as if the mare was going to have another telling off once it left the ring which I don't like to see. I haven't read though all the threads here so apologies if I am repeating what others have said.
 
Sorry, have worked my way through posts now and realise I am repeating what quite a few others have said, that'll teach me to post in a hurry. Don't really think it was a case for the RSPCA tho!
 
I totally agree with her first taking the horse into the class - as Rambo said she'd qualified it.

It's a ditchy horse so possibly she either over rode the first bit, or under rode it, and then the nappy b*gger put in a dirty one. She recovered and then told it that she wasn't going to accept that again - Good on her IMO. Horses need to learn, and you can't recreate the atmosphere of somewhere like that at home regardless of facilities. I can't bear / bare bunny hugger who claim it's cruel. The damn horse nearly put her in the ditch and she could have been quite badly injured. I have had a very ditchy horse and I've seem the insides of most ditches going - I also have carried my whip like she has - acts as an incentive as horse can see it our of the corner of their eyes, however I may be wrong, but I htink there is now a rule to say you can't? Correct if wrong.

I would also like to point out that there were many people whipping thier horses into the water jump - I can't recall their names but there were definately 2 who got 3 up the side going into it. No one seems to have mentioned that????

I think sour grapes for alot of people not getting as far as some - congrats to all who did qualify and get to jump the derby - no mean feat.

As for the bitting issues those people have - I don't think you should comment on a horse you don't know. If plain snaffles with caveson nose bands got the same results, I bet they'd use them.....

AS for getting the RSPCA involved - I think we need to call a Psych Doctor for you and for you to be put in a padded cell - you sound quite unwell.

Rant over.
 
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I would also like to point out that there were many people whipping thier horses into the water jump - I can't recall their names but there were definately 2 who got 3 up the side going into it. No one seems to have mentioned that????


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There seemed to be a fair amount of whip use in general, not just going into the water, and it did seem to coincide with a deterioration in performance. Now to me it looked like encouragement (that didn't always work) of a flagging horse, but I can see how it could look to someone who hadn't ridden much.

I have to agree with the posters above who said that P.Dobby's timing was out, she was a bit late with her stick and it didn't look good, but my goodness, can't she stick on?!
 
there were patently a lot of flagging horses at the end - and a good few paddled thru the mud on the turn into the water and lost momentum - coupled with the uphill and the wide water a good few riders did issue some 'encouragement' - tbh never seen so many horses in the water and perhaps the course could have put a take off board on the water just for this year to help the horses instead of the open water

as for the other girl - there are 6 ditches on that course - did she honestly think that mare - anti-ditch - was really going to get round that course ? surely not ?
 
My spies tell me the mare is difficult, and even they were suprised the combination were put in the class.
Apparently has a lot to do with the trainer! but then again, whats the point of having a trainer if you dont listen to them?

I think anyone who had seen my incident at BCA 2 wks ago, Snoop wasnt far off reacting in the same way after i smacked him! equally i wasnt in front of millions of spectators/TV viewers.
 
I might get shot down here but i think in the case of PD that mare deserved a bloody good smack - she knows that horse inside out, she must know what its capable of doing and she must know its a nappy sod with an attitude problem. Perhaps hitting it twice however was not acceptable - one hard smack would have done!
At the end of the day horses need discipline whether they are on tv or not - these are big animals and hugely capable of taking the pi$$. If you let them get away with it in the ring because you're scared of what people will say then your horse will quickly learn that it can get away with mucking about without being reprimanded when its in the ring. End of. Theres a reason there are so many horses on project horses these days and that is the extremes of the two attitudes - complete bunny huggers who wont discipline the horse and then the other extreme where they use too much discipline. Its about finding a happy medium.

So, i for one was not surprised when PD smacked her horse because it was being naughty and needed telling off - though twice mm not so much needed.
 
I can't believe my eyes reading some of this dribble!!!

I watched the derby and whilst I know that the horse world is fast becoming a "My pretty pony" lot, I can't believe people are condeming PD. That horse proper dropped the shoulder on her at the 2nd part of the double and its only the fact she had a good seat she stayed on at all. Now if she had fell off everyone would have been singing a different tune of what a dirty so and so the horse was and how it needed a good smack. If the horse was genuinely scared of the fence, fair enough but you could tell that was just plain dirty on the behalf of the horse. I for one think she did the right thing, I know people are saying she smacked it too slow but the horse lurched off and she was prob trying to get her backside back in the plate properly. PD was exceptionally lucky that the horse didn't go over backwards as it stood bolt upright, skewed and then stood on one back leg. Only the fact she has a good seat and balance that she didn't come off then as well.

As for the RSPCA comment, well sorry what a bunch of P**** they are anyway.

I know I'm going to have some bi***y comments back but really don't care. This country has become too much of a nanny state, too politically correct thats why we're in such a state with these extremists as everyone so scared to do anything just incase it upsets some complete and utter nutter that lives in the realms of fairyland and not reality. Next we will have people crowing on about its cruel to ride full stop and that we should just keep them for the sake of their good looks and companionship.
 
The riders are caught between a rock and a hard place on occasions like this are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. If there was any misuse of the whip at an event like this a rider will be pulled up to the judges box which has happened on occasions before and they are called over the PA so everyone knows. Obviously the FEI judges thght that the use was ok (not pretty to watch) but acceptable.The rider I am sure will watch the tape and have learnt lessons from it.

I think instead of focusing on one incident we should congratulate all the horses, riders and the arena staff on putting on a tremendous effort in conditions which were terrible and providing entertainment for us to enjoy.

With regards to the bits, they look severe but are not, just complicated not to make them severe (if that make sense). If they were too severe the horses would not jump and make the distances.
 
So in your opinion an open ditch is the same as a trakehner? Come on, next you'll be telling me a corner and an arrowhead are the same, yes both accuracy fences but not the same.
 
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QR...Oi people, lets not get bitchy... That is extreme but then Amy Tryon thinks all of us are extreme for kicking up a fuss about LS. The line gets crossed...just people have different views on just where the line lies.

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Well said Severnmiles.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion whether we agree with it or not.

The horse did indeed do a dirty stop, and looked a handful most of the way through the round.
Had it been me, I would have walloped it too.

However, I do think her timing was out, and she appeared to hit the horse out of anger/embarrassment, rather than administering a swift sharp reprimand for the horses behaviour.

Somebody has been ridiculed for emailing the BBC (or whoever it was), but I'm betting that it won't be the only email sent...
 
So because Amy knows LS inside out then she was the only one who was qualified to say whether she should pull up or not. Often the whole adrenalin, atmosphere e.t.c gets to someone and in a different situation they would react very differently.

How would you suggest Ben Maher should have reacted to his bay horse in the speed class when it stopped dead at the first fence? Wallop it so it stands up?

How do we know it was a dirty stop? I can't replay it but maybe it slid on the ground/stood on an overreach boot/something in the crowd caught its eye bla bla bla.
 
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So in your opinion an open ditch is the same as a trakehner? Come on, next you'll be telling me a corner and an arrowhead are the same, yes both accuracy fences but not the same.

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Not the same, but I do not see how rail, trakehner, rail (for example) is that far off devil's dyke. My point was not whether or not I had done my prep correctly, but that you can do all the prep in the world and if the horse lacks ringcraft it can lok like you need to school more!

I just think that when I tell my horse to go I expect him to do just that - I have not schooled over every type of XC jump he will ever meet, but I still don't expect him to kick up a fuss every time there is something a bit new/different on a course.

If he has jumped lots of fences with ditches in varying places in relation to other fences, then he should be able to jump through a devil's dyke IMO and will therefore get a smack if he gives me the impression that he is thinking otherwise! I couldn't care less that he had the poles down, but I did expect him to go when I said so!

Anyway, back to my actual point, which was that sometimes you can practice all you like at home, but you lack experience in the ring, what should you do then? All you can do is jump and jump and jump at comps until your ringcraft improves, surely?
 
Preperation is 9/10's. I had it drilled into me, always have a horse working a level above what he is competing at. Practise until you don't get it wrong - not until you get it right...

I agree, she may have had her going beautifully over a rail and ditch at home and the mare didn't play ball at Hickstead, perhaps she didn't like the ground, who knows?!
 
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