Phillipa Dobby...(sp?)

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Preperation is 9/10's. I had it drilled into me, always have a horse working a level above what he is competing at. Practise until you don't get it wrong - not until you get it right...

I agree, she may have had her going beautifully over a rail and ditch at home and the mare didn't play ball at Hickstead, perhaps she didn't like the ground, who knows?!

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With all due respect, how can you practice at a level above the Derby? Surely it's the biggest course there is?

There isn't an option on the ground at Hickstead - and the ground staff did a fine job on it, and arranging events not to be held in it so the best of the ground remained.

I also think that the ones in the middle had the worst ground as by the end it had dried up a bit.

Bx
 
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Preperation is 9/10's. I had it drilled into me, always have a horse working a level above what he is competing at. Practise until you don't get it wrong - not until you get it right...

I agree, she may have had her going beautifully over a rail and ditch at home and the mare didn't play ball at Hickstead, perhaps she didn't like the ground, who knows?!

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Gosh, I wasn't saying don't prepare, far from it! Just that sometimes it's ring practice you need, and the only way to get that is, well, in the ring. Plus, you cannot practice over every type of fence the course builder may come up with (although I grant that the derby is different as the course never changes), but you can school until your horse knows that you mean it when you say go! Surely the point of competative jumping is that your horse trusts you enough to try and jump for you, even if it hasn't seen the fence before?

There are so many 'what-ifs' the mare did not look an easy ride, and hats off to her for attempting the derby at all, I would not have done!
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Sorry Bandit perhaps you should read the whole conversation between Spottedcat and I - we were referring to her horse who didn't take to a dyke.
 
From my viewpoint (was sitting right in front of the double of water - probably could have touched it) PD deliberately turned her whip upside down and repeatedly whacked her horse on the bum in a temper.... I haven't yet watched it back on TV but the reaction of the crowd in my grandstand was shock!

I 100% agree that sometimes horses should be given a smack BUT there is a line and IMO she crossed it!

I compare it to Robert Whitaker - he smacked his horse ONCE for a refusal and continued. He stayed calm and cool - he was probably every bit as dissapointed as PD and there is the difference! He's a professional!
 
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Sorry Bandit perhaps you should read the whole conversation between Spottedcat and I - we were referring to her horse who didn't take to a dyke.

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PMSL sorry but if you read that to someone who is not horsey
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My opinion on the matter....

I do think she right for smacking the horse for refusing, no doubt about that but the fact she hit her more than once made me wonder if she was telling the horse off for embrarrasing her more so for refusing (not saying she was but it is the impression I got).

Either way I do not agree with the people who consider that it was wrong to hit the horse, and certainly would not have classed it as an act which the RSPCA needed to be contacted over! Would you have classed it as cruelty if the horse had not reacted the way she did? When I used to compete at small shows around 5 years ago I saw kids my age (13) or younger smack their ponies worse than that.

I think this country is getting out of hand, everyone is sueing everyone for little or no reason, putting a horse in it's place is cruelty, what is next?

I do agree that different jumps such as ditches have to be done inside out at home to help the horse but I agree that you can have it foot perfect at home and it can all go to pot in the ring so it will have to be sorted out with experience in the ring.

One other thing I did not like about PD's round was the way she exited the ring. Seemed the be riding the mare's head into her chest. I got the impression that she was very annoyed at the horse because of that and not doing it due to the horse's 'attitude problem'. Granted I do not know the horse nor have I ever ridden it, but if it was down to the horse's attitude would a walk on a long rein be better for her whist exiting the ring? If any of you follow me?
 
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Sorry Bandit perhaps you should read the whole conversation between Spottedcat and I - we were referring to her horse who didn't take to a dyke.

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PMSL sorry but if you read that to someone who is not horsey
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PMSL!!!
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I thought she rode well - not easy mare to ride.

Ridiculous its certainly is not cruelty.

What do you want her to do - pat the horse and bring it back round - ha ha - that really wont work on that horse lol
 
I don't see much wrong with what she did, she knows her horse better than the rest of use, and I can sympathise being the owner of a nappy mare! After the horses tantrum it jumped the ditches and she didn't have to repeat the "smacks", surely that's better than having to keep re-facing a fence if she is just going to keep refusing, then getting eliminated and the horse "winning" the argument?? Just my opinion.....
 
Nuffield - I seriously hope you are joking.
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If you thought it unfair/unjust/whatever, complain to the BJSA & let them deal with it. Complaining to the BBC who everyone is desperately trying to encourage to have MORE equine tv coverage is short sighted & pretty pointless.

Even if they agreed with you, what do you think they'd do - certainly they won't take it up with the rider, they'll just do LESS bloody coverage - especially after the latest disasterous Badminton, they're probably questionning why they bother!!!
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A few of the people up my yard (definately NOT 'bunny huggers') wished that the horse did chuck her off!!! When we need more coverage of this sport on television etc, I think that it is damaging to our sport when we get this sort of aggression etc, I know what Matt Ryans comments were in H&H last week, and we do need 'good guys' and 'bad guys', but not in this instance, are we now going to risk people thinking about our sport being full of aggressive, spolit, rich kids?? my point is, if it p*sses off horsey people, it certainly will p*ss off non horsey people and animal lovers who did witness this?

Please don't attack me for my opinion!
 
I think the mare deserved her rear. Theres no doubt at all that she deserved a smack for her behaviour coming into that fence HOWEVER to turn her away and ride so far forward away from the fence and THEN give her what for was IMO not the most sensible thing to do. If you are going to have an argument then make it quick after the tantrum, or whatever, so the horse does at least associate your actions with its own.

Pleased to see it didnt come down on her and fair play to Phillipa, thats not an easy horse!!!

As to the original posters question....no I dont see why any allowance should be made for the fact that a rider has an audience.
 
Personally I don't think there was anything wrong with what she did. It was a very dirty stop, and yes, maybe she should have reacted a bit quicker, but I don't doubt that the horse knew what it was being told off for - it jumped perfectly well afterwards.

Looked a very difficult horse, and one with an attitude problem IMO - I would have done the same thing. I don't doubt she was angry with the horse, but it was a couple of sharp smacks, not excessive beating .
 
I don't think it was a dirty stop, she was riding out of her depth and chased it into the first part making it jump flat leaving not alot of hope for the second part!!

Don't get me wrong, she is doing VERY well to be riding at that level at only 17, but she was out of her depth there...

unlike a certain Mr M.
 
anyone remember when Jane Annett did exactly the same thing on Cullawn Diamond a couple of years ago?

Look at that horse now, very very consistant in the Derby

Not condoning or sticking up for Phillappa Dobby but the use of the whip at the right time can be effective. From where I was it did look like a dirty stop - may well have spooked last minute at something in the water, reflection - who knows. Sitting in the crowd at the time, we were more worried about the horse going over backwards.
 
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I thought she rode well - not easy mare to ride.

Ridiculous its certainly is not cruelty.

What do you want her to do - pat the horse and bring it back round - ha ha - that really wont work on that horse lol

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Not really...but I have to say giving it a wallop didn't do much good either...

I don't have a problem with someone disciplining a horse, I had a problem with the fact she appeared to do it out of anger/embarrassment rather than for the good of her horse or jumping round.
 
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I don't think it was a dirty stop, she was riding out of her depth and chased it into the first part making it jump flat leaving not alot of hope for the second part!!

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For a mo I was beginning to think I was the only one who saw that and my eyes were decieving me! She'd be on the floor xc if she did that in eventing!
 
She didn't look to ride in with enough pace, and the mare rightly said no. It wasn't a dirty stop, it was a sensible one. She was far too late to smack it, and wrong anyway. It was looking out of it's depth a bit, as she was, and thank gawd she didn't go any further than she did.
I thought she was disgusting sawing at her mouth like that on the way out.
 
Was wondering if i was the only person out who looked as if the mare was not helped by the rider not riding as well as some others.
I know the girl is young, but my impression was that her inexperience was part of the reason for the stop. If i thought she has smacked the horse fairly then that wouldnt bother me, but she hit the horse in a tantum, not in a way that should be done for reprimanding for a stop.
 
I agree that I think she wasnt experienced enough to be doing the Derby. I think its THE most difficult course in the world therefore allowing someone who is inexperienced (purely because of her age) to enter is just dangerous IMO. She said she knew her horse had problems with ditches, surely you wouldnt enter a horse in this class if you KNEW it had a problem since there's plenty in it!

I dont think it should matter who's watching (ie. its on TV) as to how a person acts. Its a sport, they're in it to win - they couldnt give a crap about the public and why should they! I dont stop and think about my actions if Im in a ring which spectators are watching!

I dont think she should have smacked her horse as I also think it was done in a stroppy way as if she was embarassed. Plus, you'd think she'd know her horse would react like that if smacked it (everybody knows their own horses and what they do and dont accept - this one clearly does NOT appreciate being wacked!). She's damn lucky it didnt fall on her.
 
Ok. I have refrained from this post, but I have had loads of messages & texts etc.
1. Congratulating Andy &
2. Asking my thoughts on this thread. I hope I dont regret posting my thoughts as mainly I feel at this stage it is worse to say nothing. I almost feel accused of trying to hide something. If you know what I mean.
Firstly, everyone says If PD Qualified to run in the Derby then she had proved to be up to it. Well If you check the results from the Derby Trial you will see that PD was eliminated. (At the same double of ditches that first caused the problem on Sunday) The fact is every horse that started in that class Qualified. & that maybe the issue. Note both Robert Whitaker & Steven Smith put other riders on there horses because a start in that one class, (even jumping one fence & retiring takes you through to the big one). Should that be the case? I really do not know, & maybe the organisers of Hickstead may consider this for future years. I know that Andy wanted a crack at the Puissance at HOYS & Olympia. Permission was refused on the grounds that unless you have jumped a puissance & cleared 2 m you could not enter without a personal invite as part of the top 10 (or whatever) This was said to be a protection against someone being out of there depth whilst on National TV.
Andy & Special Diamond were joint winner in the 5th round with Ellen Whitaker & Locarno in a 6 bar at 1.95m

Should PD have smacked the horse. Yes, I think so. I am a big believer in carrot & stick. However IMO It should have been instantly & not several seconds after the run out. (it was a run out & not a dead stop) I am not going to get into pro's & cons of right or wrong.
I do not believe that a rider of her age should be barred from a class just because she may be inexperienced & in fact is only 14 month younger than my own son that managed to finish as runner up.
At the end of this month she will be travelling to France for the Europeans, On that basis I hope we can draw a line under this unfortunate incident. So perhaps we might just lay off the pressure & let her get on with her job in trying to bring medals back with the rest of the Team.
Trust me, not one of these riders go in there to make a fool of themself. Age & experience plays a big part in there learning curve. My own story could have been so different, & still maybe another year.
 
The rider had said beforehand that her horse disliked ditches .
I must admit that part of me admired her for getting the horse over in the end , another part wanted to see her face down in the mud after being chucked off by the horse & another part thought it looked ugly & more like a schooling round .

Only time will tell if she really 'won' that argument , imho .
I didn't think it cruel though - just rather an ugly spectacle .
 
I don't get it either - not blonde either !
I have difficulty in making my mind up at times , but not when I'm XC fence judging
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Maybe I am the only one but if my horse refused those fences and I was eliminated due to that in the trial I probably would not have taken the horse into the main derby. But take it home and work more on the horse in order to save it for another day and possibly make a better attempt at it next year.

But then again if I were faced at the prospect of being the youngest ever derby rider, and having that title over all of the greats such as the Whitakers/Smiths/and every other top rider then maybe I would have done the same and taken the horse in.
 
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Ok. I have refrained from this post, but I have had loads of messages & texts etc.
1. Congratulating Andy &
2. Asking my thoughts on this thread. I hope I dont regret posting my thoughts as mainly I feel at this stage it is worse to say nothing. I almost feel accused of trying to hide something. If you know what I mean.
Firstly, everyone says If PD Qualified to run in the Derby then she had proved to be up to it. Well If you check the results from the Derby Trial you will see that PD was eliminated. (At the same double of ditches that first caused the problem on Sunday) The fact is every horse that started in that class Qualified. & that maybe the issue. Note both Robert Whitaker & Steven Smith put other riders on there horses because a start in that one class, (even jumping one fence & retiring takes you through to the big one). Should that be the case? I really do not know, & maybe the organisers of Hickstead may consider this for future years. I know that Andy wanted a crack at the Puissance at HOYS & Olympia. Permission was refused on the grounds that unless you have jumped a puissance & cleared 2 m you could not enter without a personal invite as part of the top 10 (or whatever) This was said to be a protection against someone being out of there depth whilst on National TV.
Andy & Special Diamond were joint winner in the 5th round with Ellen Whitaker & Locarno in a 6 bar at 1.95m

Should PD have smacked the horse. Yes, I think so. I am a big believer in carrot & stick. However IMO It should have been instantly & not several seconds after the run out. (it was a run out & not a dead stop) I am not going to get into pro's & cons of right or wrong.
I do not believe that a rider of her age should be barred from a class just because she may be inexperienced & in fact is only 14 month younger than my own son that managed to finish as runner up.
At the end of this month she will be travelling to France for the Europeans, On that basis I hope we can draw a line under this unfortunate incident. So perhaps we might just lay off the pressure & let her get on with her job in trying to bring medals back with the rest of the Team.
Trust me, not one of these riders go in there to make a fool of themself. Age & experience plays a big part in there learning curve. My own story could have been so different, & still maybe another year.

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Well, i for one wasn't aware that everyone who started the Trial qualified for the Derby itself. In my opinion that de-values the Trial itself, and as was the case here, puts people in a situation that potentially they are not ready for. Why she decided to start the Derby itself having been eliminated in the Trial, only she (and possibly her trainer) will ever know.

That said, i still take my hat off to her for having the balls to try, and wish her and the British team the best of luck in Auvers later this month.
 
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