pics of Ellen Whitaker riding at home, in H&H this week...

[Hedgewitch13]

The OP has repeatedly said this is NOT a dig at EW - for goodness sake read the post again!

And just because she is famous and doing well doesn't mean that everyone has to like her.... We are all allowed our own opinions, we aren't all sheep and we certainly aren't all jealous of her! Me? I'm on the fence about her myself.

Personally I dislike draw reins for various reasons - incorrect use of them is as bad as rolkur. Just MY opinion of course

 

[millitiger]

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people may see the photos and go 'gosh EW is so successful and her horses jump so well AND she schools solely on a tight draw rein. i want my horse to jump better so i'm going to get some draw reins.'

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This is the part of the argument that I have trouble with. I would counter that this isn't Ellen's problem. She can school her horses how she chooses ( being a skilled and well trained rider), and why should she "hide" when the photographers come? She's a rider, she does her job which is winning show jumping competitions, not being a role model for the general equestrian public.

It isn't her fault that ill-informed people might choose to copy her. The problem is with the general state of equestrian education in this country: that instead of having a decent trainer, coach or instructor, some people are apparently (allegedly?) copying what they see in magazines.

In general I have a problem with the argument "you shouldn't do x in case someone sees you and copies it". It smacks of infantalism on the one hand and censorship on the other.

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oh, i totally agree there is a much larger problem lurking about people not having good horsey education about 'proper riding' easily available.

what i am saying is that people WILL copy (why they do is perhaps a different thread) and that is why i have a problem with the photo being used.
H&H now tend to put a reminder about wearing hats when they show riders without hats- perhaps something similar was needed here?
or even better choose a shot when the draw rein wasn't so tight as i can't believe (i hope) it wasn't that tight for the whole schooling session.

 

[PaddyMonty]

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The OP has repeatedly said this is NOT a dig at EW - for goodness sake read the post again!


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I have read the entire thread and did so before posting.

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We are all allowed our own opinions, we aren't all sheep

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Agreed. And each of us will interpret what is written as individuals.

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Personally I dislike draw reins for various reasons - incorrect use of them is as bad as rolkur. Just MY opinion of course

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Something we can agree on.

 

[Baydale]

kerilli - I enjoy your threads and your subject matter is interesting and often controversial, therefore I don't think you should be too surprised at the reactions you get. It's not like having a chat with your friends when you post on here, it's all and sundry (no offence HHO peeps

), hence why it becomes a free-for-all with you as the "villain".

I'm not fond of heat so I stay out of the kitchen, call me pink and fluffy if you like but I can find enough cr@p on a day-to-day basis without creating more for myself on here.

 

[PaddyMonty]

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Do not try to infer what I absolutely did not intend or imply. That's your deliberate misinterpretation.


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No, that is my interpretation of what you wrote.

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Other people used this thread to criticize, and to support, EW. Do not allow what they wrote to affect your view of what I wrote.

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I haven't. I form my own view. It just happens that you dislike my interpretation of your view. Thats life.

 

[PaddyMonty]

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I'm not fond of heat so I stay out of the kitchen, call me pink and fluffy if you like but I can find enough cr@p on a day-to-day basis without creating more for myself on here.

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As do I which is why I rarely post on the controversial threads.
However, one of my 'Pet Hates' is the constant knocking of EW. So in this instance I exercise my right to disagree with the OP.

 

[druid]

Goodness - Kerilli seems to be getting an unwarranted berating over this! People felt she was having a dig at EW, she has explained she was not....end of, surely?

This place does bemuse me sometimes

 

[Hattie05]

i know this is veering off topic but what about 12.2 show ponies that are ridden by adults in draw reins with their noses strapped to their chests then 2 seconds before the class they hop off and plonk the little kid on?!
to be fair to her, Ellen is built quite slightly and if I was hacking out something like Ladina B and it wanted to tank off with me I'd be pretty grateful for a set of draw reins to stop it.
As for the 'spoilt madam', look at a lot of the top pony showjumpers-3 or 4 top ponies that have been prolific winners on the circuit, and their parents have bought quite a few of them (probably spent £20k+ on each) Fair enough there are several rides (Mary King et al) who worked bloody hard to get where they are, but a LOT of ridershave a lot of financial backing or contacts etc.
And seeing as i'm just rambling now, when I was about 14 I wrote a letter to Ellen saying how much I admired her and how Kanselier was my favourite horse as he looked just like my old pony Star, and I was attempting to affiliate him. She wrote me back a genuinely nice letter, and included a couple of autographed pictures of Chance (Kanselier)-not glossy posed ones but just him chilling out in the field. I saw her at Scope that summer and went up to her to congratulate her on winning the cass i'd watched that day, and I thanked her for writing back. She was lovely and said it was a really nice letter etc. and then she asked how my jumping with Star was coming on. I was shocked that she actually remembered!
Fair enough that was 5 years ago now and she might have changed but i'm always going to be an Ellen supporter

 

[Halfstep]

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H&H now tend to put a reminder about wearing hats when they show riders without hats- perhaps something similar was needed here?

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You see I HATE this new practice. To me it implies that a) H&H seem to think that their readers are imbeciles who will copy blindly whatever they see in the magazine, and anyway b) I can ride my horse in whatever I want - blue paint and an eye patch if I choose (

). None of H&H's or any else's business. Sorry.

 

[TableDancer]

*Ventures into kitchen* I have to say I was with Juno in one of his earlier posts - I confess I hardly looked at the draw reins as I was conversing with my OH about her, er, physique... He seemed far more interested in that than the technical aspects of her gadgetry, and I went along with him

We agreed that she has a very nice backside

I do have views on draw reins etc but not nearly as strong ones as many of you appear to, and also am inclined to be wary of reading too much into a couple of photos. But that's just me, anything for an easy life

*Scuttles back to nice cool office*

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

Q/R,


Whilst Kerilli didnt comment as such on EW in her opening post (apart from the draw reins) - it was fairly obvious from the start this thread was going to run into this.

Ellen Whittaker (not a popular figure it seems on here) plus the use of draw reins (also not popular on here) and it was ALWAYS going to get to this stage.

 

[kerilli]

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Do not try to infer what I absolutely did not intend or imply. That's your deliberate misinterpretation.


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No, that is my interpretation of what you wrote.

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Other people used this thread to criticize, and to support, EW. Do not allow what they wrote to affect your view of what I wrote.

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I haven't. I form my own view. It just happens that you dislike my interpretation of your view. Thats life.

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I know all about Reader Interpretation, I sat through lectures on it at University, including the rather jaw-dropping statement that you can believe Othello is all about Manchester United Football Club, and write an A+ grade essay to that effect, AS LONG AS YOU CAN BACK UP YOUR STATEMENTS FROM TEXTUAL EVIDENCE.
So, if you can show me where, in my original post or any of my subsequent ones, I said anything about her getting it wrong, again or otherwise, I'll believe you.
Otherwise, I'll continue to believe that you are deliberately misinterpreting me for your own ends.
You think she's great. Fine, lots of people do. Lots of people don't, fine too. Fwiw I think she's not as good as her uncles yet, and I prefer the way William Whitaker rides, but that's not got anything to do with their genders, or with jealousy or anything else!
btw, in an English Literature context, you can do, say, an arch-feminist reading of a work that was never intended to be read that way by the author, and if the author states categorically that s/he did not intend the meaning to be as such, s/he is usually given full credibility.
Unless you're a Freudian, of course...!

 

[mrdarcy]

Pretty sure Kerilli can defend herself but seriously - her original post was not attacking EW. I read it as a observation and a question for clarification - I didn't expect her to get attacked for it. Maybe a sensible debate on the use of DRs but not a 'we shouldn't comment on photos in magazines because it's none of our business what the 'stars' do with their horses'

I don't really have an opinion good or bad on EW. I don't follow showjumping so I couldn't care less who was sitting on those horses. But the fact remains that those draw reins were very tight in both shots. Personally whilst I agree DRs can have their uses in schooling I hate seeing horses hacked in them. Hacking is down time, there's no need for the horse to be in such a round outline for a hack. Horses love hacking because they love to look around, see birds and sheep and things in the distance. It mimics their natural instinct to explore the range. Fastening their noses into their necks means they can't even do that. I've less of a problem if the DRs are only there for emergencies out hacking but are left loose when the horse is behaving - but I'd still rather see DRs left in the school.

We all have every right to comment on the use of DRs in those photos - it's a public magazine not a private photo shoot. For me at least it's nothing to do with who EW is, just a comment on horse training methods.

 

[PaddyMonty]

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So, if you can show me where, in my original post or any of my subsequent ones, I said anything about her getting it wrong,

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I could but as it wouldn't change your opinion or mine it would seem a pointless exercise. A bit like the pro/anti hunting debates
Anyway, I have far more pressing issues like deciding what SJ classes to attempt on sunday and where the hell I put my drawreins

However, I would like to thank you for drawing my attention to the fact that there are lots of pics of EW in H&H. Dont normally read it but might have to steal the OH's copy for a glance, just to see if I agree with Tabledancers OH

 

[amandap]

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Yes, you're right, although I personally would rather no-one uses them tighter than the normal rein - they can do a lot of damage. But, I'm obviously teetering on bunny-hugger territory there.


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Well I saw the point of the thread as being about a high profile 'role model' rider portraying an image that youngsters will want to emulate. My opinion is that youngsters are very easily influenced so agree it was not a good picture for a prominant horsey mag.

The other issue here though is the use of reins,bits etc. to pull the horses head onto it's chest! I personally don't see this as a 'bunny hugging' issue!!! I see it as a horse welfare issue, and I put up a link to research that states it is a practice that has no value in training whatsoever. So I must conclude that it is down to fashion or control...

Mta... I'll put the link up again,scroll down if you want to miss out the technical parts.
http://scienceofmotion.com/documents/hyper-flexion.html

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i know this is veering off topic but what about 12.2 show ponies that are ridden by adults in draw reins with their noses strapped to their chests then 2 seconds before the class they hop off and plonk the little kid on?!


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The link above explains that this practice does not work!! The horses muscles go back to normal almost immediately so the bent neck is NOT sustained...

 

[Quadro]

Kerilli- i understand exactly what you were trying to say i think it was silly of EW and H+H to use draw reins in a photoshoot as im sure they would realise that they are a contraversial subject!!!! (although they seem to be trying to create these recently) there are other pretty female sjers such as meredith micheals beerbaum who i dont think seem to evoke such controversy!!! if they did a photoshhot with anky and there was pictures of her practicing rollkur im sure some of you would be offended ???? although not directly combareable it is vaguely similar its just a daft thing to be printed as is a subject that creates heated responses!!!!

 

[carthorse]

It was the first thing that we noticed about the photos [how could you miss it] I am not a draw rein fan but maybe I should be. We do ok without them but just imagine how good we would be with them. I am serious, I am thinking that if all these top people are using them and doing so well maybe we should be.
I am very sad to write this, I have used showjumpers arenas and seen gorse tied around poles and electric wires but we admire these people.While we go to shows and Penfold couldn't care less if he hits a pole. I have seen horses with their heads into their chests but they go in and get great marks. Maybe I have got it all wrong.
I don't know the answer, just think that many are influenced by these things

 

[teddyt]

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Lets be honest, draw reins have become a show jumping fashion... for reasons such as that photo shoot.
I don't use them but can see why people maybe would for hacking seriously tricky/dangerous horses.
I once heard someone say putting a horse in draw reins to ''make it supple'' is like putting a pully system on your grandma and pulling them tighter and tighter until eventually she is touching her toes... If i asked half the people i know who use draw reins why they use them i bet most of them wouldn't even be able to come up with an answer (worringly some of them are young Ellen wannabes).
To say it is because they are in a rounder outline and they are therefore working better across their back .. what a load of rubbish! A horse that is comfortable and well schooled wouldn't naturally go in an inverted hollow outline-maybe people should sort the problems (or not create them) before masking them with draw reins. This isn't aimed to insult anyone on here it is just what i see so often- having a horses head tucked in appears to be an obsession amongst many riders young and old and articles with photos such as these don't help riders (or their horses).

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Here here

 

[zefragile]

QR It seems to me that the people who are throwing out the insults eg "bitchy", "jealous" etc are being the most bitchy themselves...

 

[meandmyhorse]

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Oh for god's sake! Sorry but come on people. So bloody what if her horses are in draw reins, she's not a dressage rider, her horses are healthy and successful, surely there are lots more things out there for you to worry about. I think that many, many competition horses are hacked out in draw reins for safety reasons. I'd rather see a horse ridden well in draw reins than hollow, inverted and above the bit. Shoot me down. Sorry. Don't be so bloody judgmental. Sorry rant over.

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I cant agree with you more!

For gods sake - i know the girl has made mistakes, and been seen to be quick with her hands and stick before but her horses look happy and well cared for.

She looks relaxed at home and the interview shows she is just a normal girl who - like her or hate her - is damn successful at what she does.

As for her being a pin up for showjumping - why not? she is young, pretty and talented - i also wonder how much pressure she feels being so high profile?

Her mistakes get chastised on this forum - her wins hardly get a mention.

Pick fault if you see it, fine!
But i hate the way the girl can do nothing right as far as this forum is concerned.

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I have to agree.
We all have our faults - so do the pro's.

Why are faults so quickly picked up and riddiculed yet sucess and the like never get a mention.. c'mon, give her a break she works hard at what she does she gets some AMAZING results and she inspires many...

 

[flyingfeet]

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Me too. The only reason I dont like her is she can be such a stroppy cow if she doesn't do well. You see her grinding the horse to a halt and yanking on its mouth with a face like thunder if she has a pole down. That to me is not a good role model. She is clearly just the youngest and prettiest (?) of British show jumpers currently on the circuit...


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Actually I don't think anyone was bashing Kerilli (I wasn't), it was post like Magic_Magpie shown above than make me run cold

That does sound b*tchy and someone else called her spoilt, that is why I accused the forum of being a vipers nest of b*tchy horsey women.

I honestly don't think if the pics had been Carl Hester the reaction would have been quite so personal and vitriolic.

 

[millitiger]

if it was Carl Hester i think it would have been worse reaction as it would have been totally unexpected!

 

[carthorse]

Claire is at Carl's today, maybe we will be in draw reins tomorrow, but I don't think so Rafi's trouble is keeping him in front of the leg not keeping him in an outline!

 

[Baydale]

[quoteWhy are faults so quickly picked up and ridiculed yet sucess and the like never get a mention..

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I think they call it Tall Poppy Syndrome.

 

[Puppy]

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I didn't read any such implication into the OP at all FWIW - just incorrect use of draw reins being shown in an influential publication, man, woman or child.

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Ditto

 

[wizoz]

K, oopsie, a case of people not reading the post correctly and jumping straight onto the fact that Ellen Whitakers name was mentioned!? Damn you for bringing it up

I didn't realise that so many people disliked her, I for one have nothing against her, only seen her ride a couple of times on the telly, as i'm not a great SJ fan! So all this "leave Ellen alone" stuff has me quite baffled!!

As for your post, totally get where you're coming from but haven't seen the pics and that's all i'm going to say on the subject!

 

[BayJosie]

Points.

OP has never slagged of EW - so read her bloody post before you say they did.

Don't like draw reins on any horse, whatever their level etc. just becuase everyone does something doesn't make it right.

EW is alright. she's exceptionally pretty imo, great rider, met her once and she was incredibly plesant and signed some bits and bobs for me and was very polite, like asked my horses name and what we did etc etc.

She inspires lots of young girls to get into showjumping and that's a great thing, i think the point being made is that she shouldn't be inspiriing loads of litttle girls to use draw reins...most probably incorrectly.

Think that's it.

 

[Sparklet]

I am ambivilent about EW...if she is guilty of anything, its gross stupidity for not taking her draw reins off for the photo shoot. Its bad publicity which is clear from this thread.

 

[prudunce]

oh dear,post has hit a few raw nerves me thinks!!IF EW was as good as sum think she is,then why does she need to use such gadgets??Hard work in the school /out hacking and time wud be wat all horses need to improve carriage!!! Come on,how is a girl from her back ground NOT going to be a top rider,Her Dad &uncle wud influenece her career with horses,see doesnt have to work in a norm job like the rest of us!!!!! Wat horse wudnt go well(fake outline)in draw reins,its a quick fix and FALSE,its sooooo not wat the horse is designed to do. Im sure alot of TOP riders are VERY harsh on comp horses,i know a few tricks they do to make them jump and its not NICE!!! &im sure its not just the SJ,Show producers can also be cruel, pumping feed into fat ponies bodies and tying their necks in whilst being stables 24/7 to build up topline!!! They shud take time and understand the horse& how its mind works like us everyday riders!!!! How wud EW like having her neck tied in to her chest eh????who can say thats good or comfy for a horse???At the top its all about money image,they dont give a hoot about the horses,unless they r making them money!!!

 

[Toby773]

Agree with Half Step all the way.

And I add that I would far rather see a picture like the one of Ellen hacking Ocalado with his ears pricked than many of the photos we are regularly subjected to in H&H of polo ponies )fighting to open their mouths, heads whipped up, dropped nosebands, harsh bits, etc.) or some of the hunting fraternity (jumping hollow with their back teeth being pulled out). No one seems to mind about this. A case of double standards???

Notice that no-one has commented on the fact that Ellen's left foot is dramatically turned out - but maybe that's because some of you ride like that (thus not enabling you to aid correctly!) - nor do her stirrups appear level - but that is probably because the toe is turned out so much that it shortens the leg.