Eventing Pippa Funnels article on letting covid 'dumb down' eventing

[TPO]

Going off and a tangent now but I've never enjoyed being a volunteer. Usually that's down to rude riders/their associates rather than organisers.

Decided to dip a toe back in after a few desperate pleas were put out for volunteers for a Scottish BE event. Messaged and emailed the organiser, CC'ing in a friend who offered to volunteer too, and not even an acknowledgment or thanks but no thanks. I know organisers will be extremely busy but as others have said you can't have an event without volunteers. I won't be pencilling out weekends to offer again.

 

[Michen]

Going off and a tangent now but I've never enjoyed being a volunteer. Usually that's down to rude riders/their associates rather than organisers.

Decided to dip a toe back in after a few desperate pleas were put out for volunteers for a Scottish BE event. Messaged and emailed the organiser, CC'ing in a friend who offered to volunteer too, and not even an acknowledgment or thanks but no thanks. I know organisers will be extremely busy but as others have said you can't have an event without volunteers. I won't be pencilling out weekends to offer again.

Yep I’ve offered to volunteer at 2 events (when emailing secretaries to withdraw/change something)this year and not received a reply. Granted one was only a half day but ?‍

 

[ester]

south west wise killerton used to have one didn't it?
and I can remember going to ston easton as a kid.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

The BE event at Upton House which is a NT property is going ahead in July this year. Not as grand or to the same level as Blenheim in September but it’s a nice course.

 

[palo1]

I’m not speaking on behalf of the organisation or anything but the reason the NT stopping running the few events it hosted is almost certainly due to the increased focused on land management rather than because of animal welfare issues. The conservation and compliance issues are a lot more stringent now than they were pre-2000 or so (which seems to be the heyday of a few that are being mentioned) and it’s really hard to make that duty of care compatible with allowing hundreds of massive horse boxes to park all over your ancient parkland, preparing the track to BE standards, all the other infrastructure etc. Also hosting events is meant to be income generating and I’m not convinced many people make money off the one day events!

Privately owned estates don’t have the same restrictions in place but even there, it’s very dependent on an individual owner having a specific interest in hosting. The vast majority of those events on the lists above are privately owned land and I imagine they’ve all dropped out because it’s not worth running them from a financial perspective.

You are right about all of those issues for the NT @Lexi_ . I think it just 'feels' that these things have resulted in an organisation which has become separated from the kinds of activities that many see as 'traditional' and even appropriate in those settings and which encourage quite large numbers of people to visit and enjoy them which is a real shame. The finances are horribly difficult as is the amount of work/preparation. Perhaps there is an argument (probably not v realistic) for much more traditional and less intensive events at those properties and I have often wondered why NT properties don't cash in on the fun ride market but that is a different conversation!!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Oh yes, there were horse trials at Killerton, trying to remember if BE or maybe PC, or both?

I'm surprised that Powderham packed up in 2010, the 18th Earl of Devon was still alive then and he and Lady Devon were staunch supporters of the event from its inception.

Having visited Lyme Park (NT) again this week, I can see why setting up running an event through the parkland would be very disruptive. I can't remember the event layout when it did run, though. I did spectate there.

 

[Orangehorse]

Oh dear, it is rather sad, recalling all those lovely venues. I think for a lot of places they were really aiming to break even rather than make a profit, because even running a pony club one day event became more and more expensive with more and more requirements regarding facilities needed. Also I suspect that at most of the lost venues, the organisers were themselves involved in the eventing game, they had relatives riding or were past riders and unfortunately many of them are simply dying off.

No one has mentioned the Event Rider Masters series where there was a lot of money on offer. I was at Chatsworth when I think the first one was run in the UK? It was a bit of fun but I kept wondering where the money was coming from and was it detracting from the main event, which I actually think it did.

Of course, if you are going back to "my era" when it was Novice, Intermediate and Advanced (and I turned up at events to see the hugest show jumping fences I had ever seen), many riders would have a bash at eventing, even be in the British Team and then retire either to get married and have babies, or to get on with another career and it was really Lucinda Prior Palmer who became a professional, making a living from eventing and so the sport evolved with professionals searching the country for suitable horses.

So it evolved from an amateur sport, you were the lucky one if your horse had the talent, to a professional one, but competitors are still relying on the generosity of landowners to put on events and the volunteers to give up their day to make the competition run - now I know that these arguments have been aired before and I don't know what the answer is.

 

[teapot]

Oh dear, it is rather sad, recalling all those lovely venues. I think for a lot of places they were really aiming to break even rather than make a profit, because even running a pony club one day event became more and more expensive with more and more requirements regarding facilities needed. Also I suspect that at most of the lost venues, the organisers were themselves involved in the eventing game, they had relatives riding or were past riders and unfortunately many of them are simply dying off.

No one has mentioned the Event Rider Masters series where there was a lot of money on offer. I was at Chatsworth when I think the first one was run in the UK? It was a bit of fun but I kept wondering where the money was coming from and was it detracting from the main event, which I actually think it did.

Of course, if you are going back to "my era" when it was Novice, Intermediate and Advanced (and I turned up at events to see the hugest show jumping fences I had ever seen), many riders would have a bash at eventing, even be in the British Team and then retire either to get married and have babies, or to get on with another career and it was really Lucinda Prior Palmer who became a professional, making a living from eventing and so the sport evolved with professionals searching the country for suitable horses.

So it evolved from an amateur sport, you were the lucky one if your horse had the talent, to a professional one, but competitors are still relying on the generosity of landowners to put on events and the volunteers to give up their day to make the competition run - now I know that these arguments have been aired before and I don't know what the answer is.

The Stones, the owners of Chilli Morning (amongst others) put the majority of the money in for the ERM I believe.

Competely agree that it distracted, almost ruined the orignal long format events they ran alongside. Think I did Barbury, Blenheim and Gatcombe when they had a ERM class and they were not the same spectator/feel wise.

 

[Lexi_]

Yup, what Teapot said.

The whole ERM circus seemed to overtake the events they were running at, and some of the people involved were a right pain in the hoop.

 

[ycbm]

So it evolved from an amateur sport, you were the lucky one if your horse had the talent, to a professional one, but competitors are still relying on the generosity of landowners to put on events and the volunteers to give up their day to make the competition run - now I know that these arguments have been aired before and I don't know what the answer is.

A number of things stopped me volunteering in the end but this was one of them. The sheer number of professionals being paid to ride and/or increasing the value of horses to sell on at big profits, while expecting volunteers to give up their time for free to let them do that. I did wonder at one stage if every professional should be required to provide a volunteer even if that meant paying someone, though how you could make that work I don't know.
.

 

[milliepops]

Don't know if it's still the case but it used to seem that you'd stand a better chance getting through a ballot if you provided a volunteer though in most cases it's the amateur-friendly levels that were balloted heavily.

I don't mind volunteering BE but it's a very long day on your own. I never have anyone to go with. Whereas dressage writing you've obviously got the judge, and organised breaks etc, and, selfishly, I feeling I'm getting something back rather than just putting something in.

 

[VRIN]

This is an interesting discussion. So many lovely events that no longer run. The reasons for no longer running are probably many and diverse but I think times have changed. The riders themselves have a part to play in the non running of these events. People used to event for fun, now at the top and many levels below its a way of making a living and that brings with it changes in attitude and expectations.

Just thinking of badminton and how it used to vary its route around the park until after the year riders withdrew cross country because the ground wasn't suitable now it has a fairly fixed course. Not to suggest that things shouldn't improve but part of the fun of watching badminton was the different paths it took through the park, now we largely just see differences in the nature of obstacles and questions at specific sites.

Voting with your feet also loses events ... Armathwaite ran a lovely event, designed by Cap Mark Phillips, the first event was very tough and the following year it wasn't well supported as it was deemed 'too tough', even though it had been softened. I can think of a couple of others which stopped due to lack of support.

Osbaldeston, although not a prestigious event in terms of setting was well liked and supported by locals - most classes usually balloting - that stopped (I believe) because of the demands and comments from BE.

I think ycbm has a valid point - the number of volunteers who are needed to run these events. In times gone past when it was largely about fun, unpaid helpers was appropriate but now with such large sums of money being earned on the back of an eventing lifestyle then it does make the use of unpaid labour debatable ... Volunteering did give you a better chance of not being balloted but it wasn't entirely fair in that top riders who didn't volunteer would still get preference!

 

[Tiddlypom]

There's a lot of responsibility being heaped on the back of the volunteers, too.

Take FJ. You get complicated diagrams of what constitutes a 20 penalties, you are responsible for keeping the area around your fence safe from oblivious course walkers, loose dogs etc, plus there is always the risk of a bad fall. It's a lot to expect for a once or twice a year not-necessarily-very-horsey volunteer to do. And its a very long day, even for the local events I'd be out of the house for over 12 hours.

 

[DabDab]

Not just the pros who need to make money and can't afford a blemish on the record, but it also feels like most amateurs are much more precious about risking a bad result than they used to be. Although that feels the same for dressage too. Social media society and everything being searchable I guess has a part to play.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

There's a lot of responsibility being heaped on the back of the volunteers, too.

Take FJ. You get complicated diagrams of what constitutes a 20 penalties, you are responsible for keeping the area around your fence safe from oblivious course walkers, loose dogs etc, plus there is always the risk of a bad fall. It's a lot to expect for a once or twice a year not-necessarily-very-horsey volunteer to do. And its a very long day, even for the local events I'd be out of the house for over 12 hours.

You've put into words exactly what put me off despite initially being really keen. I watched the BE video/webinar on fence judging and thought that's a lot of responsibility and things to remember!

 

[humblepie]

Going back to the list of events - I don't think Savernake was mentioned? That was a good location as so many event riders based nearby and a lovely park. That said Charlton Park seems to have be back onto the event circuit so that is good. Apologies if wrong as don't event just see things mentioned.

 

[honetpot]

I am helping out at our RC show, I could work that day and get paid for my time. A lot of stewards, judges and general helpers now have either work, or may be having to look after grandchildren. There is a nearly always a payment for first aid cover, which I never understand as it's a requirement for insurance for most events, so why not an officials' payment, and at least give all officials mileage and food. If you are stuck in a car all day, for me, it's not much of a day out, at least dressage writing you learn something, hopefully.
I no longer volunteer at show centres, I will do RC, PC and small shows, I just do not see how unpaid labour can be part of your business plan.

 

[SOS]

I voluteered somewhere the week before last - was left on my own, someone brought me lunch but no chance to eat it, no relief so I could go for a wee/grab a tea either, and no one said thank you when I left.

I spent a long time volunteering for RDA where everyone is thanked week in, week out. It's not hard to appreciate people, but it's also very easy to piss them off.

Exactly this. I volunteered a few times for one of the fore mentioned travelling groups. The “in” people keep the better jobs and the randomers like me were put wherever. After a day fence judging alone I decided I didn’t want to ever do it again by myself as there was no relief. I specifically said this next time and was assigned the XC collecting ring... fab. Until morning assignments when someone decided they would rather do it. Again I was left out fence judging alone with horses coming every 60 seconds, no drinks offered throughout the day, a small, dry lunch and it was boiling hot. At the end of it all I got a glass with their logo on and no Thankyou just a message over the radio saying we can leave. I drove home fuming and haven’t fence judged for them since.

 

[Ellibelli]

I remember fence judging at Belton 3* (now 4*) with my OH (under a bit of sufferance!) and we were given a very complicated fence. I was pretty terrified but my OH took it on with great confidence and a bit of naivety! Most pro riders spoke to us when walking the course and were really pleasant, and Lucinda Green was lovely. However, Sue Benson (course designer) came along and asked my OH how the fence was riding and my OH (who didn't know her from Adam) proceeded to tell her how it should be ridden - and Sue was downright rude to him and sniped that she knew exactly how it should be ridden as she designed the course! I just gave her a withering look, but wanted to scream at her how much it had taken for me to persuade him to come along with me that day - I think she had just been announced as the London 2012 course designer and full of her own importance!

I have to say I think BEDE always treated their volunteers exceptionally well and did give us priority in the event of a ballot.

 

[Mule]

Not just the pros who need to make money and can't afford a blemish on the record, but it also feels like most amateurs are much more precious about risking a bad result than they used to be. Although that feels the same for dressage too. Social media society and everything being searchable I guess has a part to play.

That's interesting, I wasn't aware of that.

 

[gunnergundog]

Events to add to the list that are no more would include: Withcote Hall, Copt Oak, Stoneleigh Abbey, Bramcote Army, Withybrook, Holdenby, Wellesbourne. There was also another Leicestershire one up near Copt Oak....can't remember the name for the life of me.....anyone any ideas?

 

[Roxylola]

I've been thinking about this a bit especially having been rained off myself at weekend.
I think there must be multiple factors and lots we haven't even thought of, but I think the weather plays a large part. We are undisputably getting wetter; wetter winters, wetter summers there just is more water falling than even 10 years ago. It seems to be a fact of life now.
So the cost of staging an event that is becoming increasingly likely to be cancelled due to rain must be some issue here.

Somewhere like somerford which is purpose built will have suffered a big loss of revenue having cancelled, regardless of entry fees they've had to close the farm ride, at least some of the 80 acres and arenas just to possibly run an event.

For the big country house venues presumably they'd bd having the same loss of other (guaranteed) income for things like visitors, function room hire (weddings etc) for an event that might not even run.

Pau, and kentucky obviously are in very different climates to the UK, Lumuhlen is more northern but inland so you don't tend to get the same amount of rain.

And if it does run on wet ground you've then got the issues with parking, not just horses but the spectators at the big events - I presume it's mostly on grass like agricultural shows etc. So more fields getting chewed up which would need to be fixed. The colleges and purpose built venues are likely to have far more and better parking available easily. Additionally in terms of clogging up local roads purpose built venues could be better sited to limit that whereas Badminton House is where it is and the village was built around it because that's how things happened then. Building a new venue you could choose a site that didn't create these issues.

Volunteers is another issue although MP is correct that you've a better chance of getting a run if you volunteer as well (or provide one).

There is also the fact we have less and less hacking available now. 20 years ago most of my hacking was bridle paths across fields, those fields don't exist now. We've recently found Charlie lacks confidence on muddy ground, I'm not a bit surprised as he's never ridden on it, the only grass we really have is our summer field on the yard and we don't ride on it when it's soft as its needed for turnout!

I don't think its necessarily just wanting a clean record either- it's an expensive dressage test/combined training if you get E'd! Now obviously the idea is that doesn't happen but without training on hilly sometimes muddy fields - especially jumping on them how do you get better at it? And how do you train for that when you're best local xc venue is somerford - where its all made as safe as possible. So you choose "safe" venues for competition that surface their take offs and landings and aren't too hilly! A sub 30 dressage and DC is fabulous if you can get it but personally as a hobbyist I want to get round with a happy confident keen horse and come home safe. That's my driving force when I choose a class and/or location.

I don't think its necessarily a dumbing down, but I also acknowledge that not all venues are equal tests. I'm not sure what the answer should be really, I'd be gutted to see the loss of more of our classic venues, and I'd love to see maybe the BBC- after all we pay our licence fee - putting some television funding their way. I'm sure gatcombe used to be televised? I know football clubs would rather be bottom of the top league than top of the second because being in that top league brings in more money because of the matches being televised.

 

[milliepops]

The lack of suitable day to day schooling spaces is something that would really put me off these days.
I have 2 horses in my back pocket that might potentially enjoy doing a bit of low level eventing but I now have arenas, gallops and lanes which sound great but wouldn't allow me as a bumbling amateur to feel like I could meet the challenges I used to. When I was eventing I had access to miles of hilly field margins that we used in all weathers and a slightly undulating set aside field that we used for SJ and simulated xc exercises. Plus hunting in the off season for the ones that were sensible.

I'd want something similar to upskill again now. Nothing remotely like that in my area, it's all quite "sanitised"

Its an interesting point Roxy. Will we effectively end up with a series comprised of some places being like arena xc only on a field, and others that are old fashioned entirely grass-based courses?

 

[palo1]

The lack of suitable day to day schooling spaces is something that would really put me off these days.
I have 2 horses in my back pocket that might potentially enjoy doing a bit of low level eventing but I now have arenas, gallops and lanes which sound great but wouldn't allow me as a bumbling amateur to feel like I could meet the challenges I used to. When I was eventing I had access to miles of hilly field margins that we used in all weathers and a slightly undulating set aside field that we used for SJ and simulated xc exercises. Plus hunting in the off season for the ones that were sensible.

I'd want something similar to upskill again now. Nothing remotely like that in my area, it's all quite "sanitised"

Its an interesting point Roxy. Will we effectively end up with a series comprised of some places being like arena xc only on a field, and others that are old fashioned entirely grass-based courses?

Good points @Roxylola and @milliepops. Our overall culture as well as equestrian culture is changing pretty quickly too with a greater emphasis on horse and rider safety which IS a good thing. That does mean however that our understanding of risk is also changing. That, alongside the difficulties that Riding Schools have in keeping clients in relation to cheap DIY livery yards might mean that whilst there are many more people engaged in equestrianism and horse ownership there is, overall a loss of skill and knowledge - particularly around eventing related skills. When I was younger (sigh) if you 'only' jumped 70cm or so you were more or less considered a 'non-jumper'!! That is now considered a 'competitive' level which I think discourages a whole section of potential competitors from striving for more; they can have the 'competition experience' at a much easier level. In some ways, why would you spend more money on training and development and take more risks/ more time when you can do this?

We have all seen small ponies and confident kids jumping really quite big stuff so it's not as if horsepower is the problem. When I was younger, eventing at at least the middling levels was a realistic aspiration as most riding kids had some kind of appropriate preparation and expectations around the work and risks. I think it is really, really hard for children to start with an 'ordinary' pony and believe that they can get to the top now though it does happen (still taking extraordinary determination and hard work). Hunting used to provide horses and riders with much more preparation and education for the xc phase of eventing too and of course, that is less so now even though many of the top level riders still use that route to develop skill, bravery, enjoyment and quick thinking. There are less and less substitutes for hunting too - as you say; the xc preparation opportunities are much more limited. Ironically, even though people do still have the opportunities to develop those sorts of skills the costs of eventing and the way that competitions are miles and miles away now means that I guess a lot of people have no desire at all to even consider entering an event. Some years ago, there would have been several really nice events with 'proper' but manageable challenges within reach both geographically and financially of course...The problem of volunteers is across the board of sport I think where every sport is increasingly commercialised, monetised and volunteering is somewhat incompatible with those things and the expectations of event co-ordinators and participants.

I have no idea where this all leaves equestrian sport Dressage is nice because you can 'succeed' in walk and trot and still be home for lunch...perhaps that is what people want?!! Dressage is increasingly popular too as it has become 'glamorous' with great role models and a good safety record (as well as great shopping potentially lol!!) . I don't know much about show jumping but it 'feels' like it is very much professionalised now and expensive for amateurs to enjoy and succeed at.

It sounds really depressing actually I can only be glad that I can still enjoy wonderful hacking, trail hunting, blood hounding and other 'challenges' in equestrian terms. Riding across steep Welsh hills, jumping gullies and occasional fallen trees/ropey rails etc is probably as close as I will get to the xc element of eventing again!! Sorry to digress personally; it has just made me reflect on how much things have really changed in the last couple of decades.

 

[Lexi_]

Does anyone have an old BE event calendar around? I’d be really interested to see how many events there used to be per year say 10/20/30 years ago vs now.

 

[teapot]

Great post @Roxylola - lots to consider


TV coverage is an interesting one as you need a lot more infrastructure to cover a 4* or 5* course compared to a football pitch or a Wimbledon court. Yes you can do it on the cheap (H&C coverage anyone or live streams) but that's not good enough for BBC level coverage.

 

[Roxylola]

Yes, the cost of TV coverage is an issue, I'd be prepared to pay per view but it would have to be better.
Equally, I'd argue that we are better at Equestrian sport on the world stage than we are at football for instance. Maybe, as the BBC are funded by public money they ought to be putting some of that into helping and promoting sport rather than simply shrugging that it doesn't win ratings

 

[Ellibelli]

Does anyone have an old BE event calendar around? I’d be really interested to see how many events there used to be per year say 10/20/30 years ago vs now.

I'm not sure there were any more events 10 - 15 years ago, but the ones we had tended to be based on fences in hedge-lines and used lovely fixed features and on old turf. I think there may be more events today, but a lot of them are at purpose built sites and / or using portable fences in the middle of a field?

 

[ycbm]

Does anyone have an old BE event calendar around? I’d be really interested to see how many events there used to be per year say 10/20/30 years ago vs now.

You could get some idea by looking up the results tables, which were computerised partly in 2000 (some of my results are missing from 2000 and none of the years before that show) and fully, I think, from 2002.

But I used to be able to do one event every 2 weeks at Novice height from March to September without travelling more than about 2 hours from home and I couldn't get near that now in a non Covid year, I think?

It used to be the case that being allowed a second date in the same year was something venues had to bargain with BE to get into the calendar. Now there are a lot of 2s and even one, or more, 3s.
.

 

[Roxylola]

I'm not sure there were any more events 10 - 15 years ago, but the ones we had tended to be based on fences in hedge-lines and used lovely fixed features and on old turf. I think there may be more events today, but a lot of them are at purpose built sites and / or using portable fences in the middle of a field?

More widespread one offs as well maybe. Aston seems to run loads (one a month?)