Pit Bulls kill cancer childs pony

Tia

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Well I've read this link and tonnes of others written by scientists and can forward more links to this thread if you wish, however I actually like this one the best. It is well written although written in a scientific analysis, it is done in layman terms for people to understand easily.

Here is a quote from it:

"The pit bull's unusual breeding history has produced some bizarre behavioral traits, de- scribed by The Economist's science editor in an article published a few years ago, at the peak of a heated British controversy over dangerous dogs that saw the pit bull banned in England. First, the pit bull is quicker to anger than most dogs, probably due to the breed's unusually high level of the neurotransmitter L-tyrosine. Second, pit bulls are frighteningly tenacious; their attacks frequently last for 15 minutes or longer, and nothing—hoses, violent blows or kicks—can easily stop them. That's because of the third behavioral anomaly: the breed's remarkable insensitivity to pain. Most dogs beaten in a fight will submit the next time they see the victor. Not a defeated pit bull, who will tear into his onetime vanquisher. This, too, has to do with brain chemistry. The body releases endorphins as a natural painkiller. Pit bulls seem extra-sensitive to endorphins and may generate higher levels of the chemical than other dogs. Endorphins are also addictive: "The dogs may be junkies, seeking pain so they can get the endorphin buzz they crave," The Economist suggests.

Finally, most dogs warn you before they attack, growling or barking to tell you how angry they are—"so they don't have to fight," ASPCA advisor and animal geneticist Stephen Zawistowski stresses. Not the pit bull, which attacks without warning. Most dogs, too, will bow to signal that they want to frolic. Again, not the pit bull, which may follow an apparently playful bow with a lethal assault."

The full editorial can be read if you click on this link. It is long but well worth a read if anyone wants to learn about how Pit Bulls work and the problems associated with them.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/9_2_scared_of_pit.html
 

severnmiles

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Tia, I will read it seeing as its you but science is wasted on me, having witnessed the c*ap that was written during the hunting debate and rubbish written about wolves and wolf dogs. Plus the rubbish written about what we should and shouldn't eat and how we should or shouldn't lead our lives I formed the opinion that its all biased twaddle one way or the other. I take practical experience as gospel and remember science is often not fact it is often a professionals opinion.

*toodles off to read*
 

Tia

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LOL!!! Now I totally agree with you on many of those points!
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Christmas_Kate

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QR.

I think it's terribly sad.

I do have to say i don't feel that it is the breed as such that causes the problem. Or the owners. It's those who breed them. We all know, when looking for a puppy, we see the parents, we like to see both calm, obedient and friendly. APB's and x's aren't bred for their nice behaviour. Wether it be human breeding , horse breeding or dog breeding, characteristics are passed down in generations, sometimes missing a generation or two. This can be personality characteristics, health characteristsics, or looks. One nasty bitch (In dog breding not human
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) can be passed down. So when you have a line of bitches bred for fighting what are the chances of gettinga dog who would be calm, well mannered and suitable to live in a house with children?

My brother has a JRT. The whole line of pup's parentage is reknowned for their obedience and loyalty. My brother hasnt owned a dog before, and is quite strict with the pup. TBH he hasnt a friggin clue, but that pup goes to work with him daily, never leaves his side, and is an absolute little angel. It doesnt always have to do with their handling IMO, it has alot more to do with breeding.
 

severnmiles

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Firstly "and nothing—hoses, violent blows or kicks—can easily stop them."

Rubbish, thats not just apparent to APBT's. When Beano first attacked Gnasher (a hot bitch was in the next room) we threw water over him, it didn't stop him, he's twice the size of Gnasher so we were frantically trying to get him off of him and tried everything, including (this sounds bad but we could have ended up with a dead dog) hitting him with a sauce pan and I mean hard, it didn't stop him, I kicked him(
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) it didn't work. This is a 15" JRT not an APBT so I think the above quote applies for terriers in general. I know how difficult it is to part a working terrier from a fox.

"Most dogs beaten in a fight will submit the next time they see the victor."

Another comment picked out of the sky, whoever had written this clearly has no knowledge of dogs. There is NO way Gnasher submits to Beano, we have to be VERY careful with them (I actually can't think why anyone would want terriers unless they were worked, snappy, yappy gits!), they've had one fight since and G shows absolutely no sign of submitting.

Therefore my original opinion was right.

And just remember the qualified professional who I won't name whose opinion sent many women to jail claiming they had smothered their children. His opinion was then thought of as fact but it was and still is only an opinion and a wrong one at that.
 

severnmiles

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He should have trained mums JRT's...bloomin selective hearing
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Give me an Inuit anyday! The JRT's have tried starting fights with my inuits before and yet my Inuits (touch wood) have not ever gone for each other, they're even fed raw meat together (which would be a big No, No with the JRT's) and don't ever fight, even foxhounds fight at feed time and we all know how soppy they are!

Ahh there's a spanner in the works, they are killing machines yet how many times do we hear of a foxhound biting a human? And lurchers are capable of killing a deer yet we don't hear of those savaging people either do we... odd.

Glad to hear your brother is doing a good job!
 

Ruggers

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[ QUOTE ]
would this have made the news if the pony wasn't owned by a cancer patient???
i doubt it.
crap happens all over this putrid world of ours........
if, buts and maybes dont cover it..............

[/ QUOTE ]
i am disgusted by your comment JMO7, you must be very small minded and ignorant to say this. you really must have no idea about the pain and heartbreak of cancer. that boy must be distruaght. and all you can say is"crap happens".
i actually cannot believe someone has written that, it is terrible that the pony has been killed by some dogs, and that poor boy has more things to be sad about.
 

Christmas_Kate

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[ QUOTE ]
He should have trained mums JRT's...bloomin selective hearing
grin.gif


Give me an Inuit anyday! The JRT's have tried starting fights with my inuits before and yet my Inuits (touch wood) have not ever gone for each other, they're even fed raw meat together (which would be a big No, No with the JRT's) and don't ever fight, even foxhounds fight at feed time and we all know how soppy they are!

Ahh there's a spanner in the works, they are killing machines yet how many times do we hear of a foxhound biting a human? And lurchers are capable of killing a deer yet we don't hear of those savaging people either do we... odd.

Glad to hear your brother is doing a good job!

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this comes down to pecking order within the pack. Your dogs see you as alpha, pack leader. they respect you, they do not take your food, they follow your commands and they relyy on you for food and warmth. Within your "apck" your dogs are not permitted (and have no need to) fight each other.
APB's are bred to kill each other. It stands to reason if they have no respect for ANY member of their pack , they have no respect for humans.
Foxhounds are prime example of a pack setting. They do fight, but this tends to be the younger hounds, who have yet to learn their pecking order. Once pecking order is established, (with someone as alpha) they generally settle. APB's are never taught respect in the way we would pet dogs, and this runs down the line from bitch to bitch.

I think my brother's sweetie pie of a pup is more luck than anything!
 

severnmiles

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Well at the end of the day its also down to competence. If you have two APBT's which we all know are capable of killing, why are they loose around a minature pony?

We have an agressive GSD as a guard dog, we can do ANYTHING to her, take her bone, fuss her whilst she is eating or has a bone and she wouldn't ever bite us or even growl but she would bite a stranger, knowing this we'd never take her to a public place (another one we rescued - 5 homes in 7 days
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) and we'd never leave her outside alone loose just incase anyone popped around.

When you look at parenting and horse riders you see an incredible number of incompetent people and that is why accidents happen.
 

severnmiles

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Aww bless...

Yes but then why would the JRT's fight?
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I do have to admit I'm firm but very rewarding in my training where as mum is one of those people whose kids have grown up so her dogs are her 'babies', maybe that is the reason, lack of respect. Spare the rod spoil the child (JRT
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).
 

Tia

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Does Beano go around killing ponies, attacking people for no reason, ripping other dogs to shreds and is he banned in England, Canada and many US cities?

Pit Bulls are not pet dogs. They are on many countries Dangerous Dogs lists, they are banned from many countries and ones who are allowed to live out the rest of their lives have to be muzzled in public. I am glad they are banned and it won't be a day too soon to see the back of them. They are not necessary in today's society.
 

severnmiles

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I'm sure Beano is capable of killing a sheep (ViciJP's JRT has killed a Ewe) and a Ewe is no smaller than a minature pony. But he doesn't because we don't give him the chance to. Like I say, lack of competence with so many dog owners!

I thought your white dog was known as being an aggressive dog (breedwise)?
 

severnmiles

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P.s Tia, in America I'm sure crossbreds are used for culling bigger vermin, badgers and the like so perhaps some people would see the need for having them
confused.gif
 

Christmas_Kate

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We had a JRT years ago. He was an outdoors dog, lived in a kennel and ate rabbits my father shot. He came from a line of working dogs, proper little ratters. My father has always kept dogs and taught the JRT he wasnt to touch us children, but was to guard and rat. Us kids could do anything with him and he wouldnt bother, but if another child went near him he'd flip. No stranger could get past him, EXCEPT the vicar (he could walk straight through the back door and the JRT would roll on it's back for a fuss). My parents allowed the dog into the house when we moved because we no longer had kennel space and he was getting on in years. He became a 'pet'. One evening I was lying on the floor next to the dog (he was asleep), and I rolled over and hugged him. Quick as a flash he snapped and bit right through my nose (I still have the scars).
My parents didnt have him PTS because it was my fault (I suprised him). He was bred to snap and guard, and that;s just what he was doing.
 

Tia

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She's classed as a "defensive-aggressive" dog; big difference.

Why? What has her breed to do with Pit Bulls being banned?
 

Tia

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Nah they don't use Pit Bulls - too aggressive and too unpredictable. Hounds (MANY different types over here) are generally used for hunting and culling.
 

severnmiles

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[ QUOTE ]
She's classed as a "defensive-aggressive" dog; big difference.

Why? What has her breed to do with Pit Bulls being banned?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing. But you said the breed is known as 'defensive-agressive' yet you said she is not at all like that. Proof that not all dogs live up to their label.
 

severnmiles

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[ QUOTE ]
Nah they don't use Pit Bulls - too aggressive and too unpredictable. Hounds (MANY different types over here) are generally used for hunting and culling.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I def know they use 1st crosses out there for Badgers.
 

Tia

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Not here in Canada - they are banned here and they were very strict in getting rid of them.

As for my dog, well I haven't heard of any reports (of course if there were any they would be in Turkish and of course I don't understand Turkish
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) of these dogs killing anything outside of their designated guarding area. They are passive dogs and have no concern as to what goes on elsewhere because they are genetically programmed to do a specific job.....in the same way as a Pit Bull is genetically programmed to do its job.
 

severnmiles

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Its a Turkish breed is it? I'd never seen one before, will google it, what was the name again? I wonder if they are legal here? Or if there are any breeders over here. Personally I think he looks like a big fluffy teddy bear
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Tia

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She is a big fluffy teddybear
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.

She is an Akbash. They are a Rare Breed. I don't think you have them in the UK to be honest; at least I have never found any mention of anyone having/breeding them in England; the closest dog you seem to have there are Karabash/Kangols which used to be lumped together under Anatolian Dog but from what I gather have been separated again; only there is still no mention of Akbash in England.

http://www.kangalclub.com

Turkish Breeds .

I wouldn't think Akbash are illegal in England; the Karabash aren't and they are not dissimilar from Akbash. Mind you I cannot for the world imagine why anyone in England would want a dog such as this - you aren't exactly inundated with bears, wolves or coyotes. Their saving grace is maybe because they are such large dogs and they are not a well known breed in most countries out of Turkey.

Here's what they look like as grown dogs;

Akbash_Uschi1.jpg



Here's some info on them.

http://www.lgd.org/usdafacts.html
 

severnmiles

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Wow...so they just live out with the sheep...and are completely stock proof. They are even more lovely as adults. Wonder if it would work re. foxes and badgers taking lambs..gee don't tell Endymion, he'll have finally found his solution to no longer needing hunting
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P.s do they guard against humans too?
 

Tia

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[ QUOTE ]
P.s do they guard against humans too?

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, yes.
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That's why you have to be awfully careful with them. They won't just go and attack a human so long as he remains out of their territory - but yes they will if a human or anything seen as predatory, comes onto their territory. Our little one is doing fine on this training part thank goodness, however I would never ever trust her fully because I know that this is an inbuilt instinct and in moments of stress she easily has the capability to kill almost anything.
 

Tia

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Yes, my little Clover is an Akbash.
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Here she is; she's only 4 months old and already the same size as my black shepherd.

October21009.jpg


October21001.jpg
 

Tia

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Oh Patches the photos really don't do her justice - they don't quite capture her. Believe it or not, she is even more beautiful in real life. She's an absolutely stunning dog and I love her sooooo much
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. I really do.

October21006.jpg


And here she is with her brother a few days ago;

October26015.jpg




Sorry for hijacking this post - I can't help myself - I just adore my dog
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.
 

WelshRareBit

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Tia your dog is a joy to see!

What I worry about is the people who are perfectly good owners being stopped from having dangerous breeds just because some owners are incompetant.
Lots of people brand stallions as dangerous and unmanageable, but plenty of people on here keep stallions that are kind and more importantly well managed. Is it the stallions fault he comes over all unneccessary or is it down to us to know that he might- and keep everyone else, including our own animal - safe?
 
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