Pit Bulls kill cancer childs pony

[Sarah1]

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I have to agree with Tia - Pit Bulls are unnecessary in todays society and I too will be glad to see the back of them. I think xxKatyxx made a good point that it's odd you don't hear of more cases involving other breeds attacking humans and ponies...?
Someone made a point about labradors being capable of attacking humans and I'm sure that there are the odd one or two that would but that's the thing there are one or two that would do something like that in the case of Pit Bulls I think there are only one or two that wouldn't at least think about it!
I have a labrador, she's the sweetest thing and I would trust that dog with my life - she can not in any way shape or form be compared to a Pit Bull or similar!
Friends of ours have a Staffy - she's a nice dog and very friendly however, she was playing and closed her mouth around my arm, luckily she didn't break the skin but I had bruises where her teeth had been, my labrador on the other hand could carry an egg about for hours and it'd still be intact.
Even if it isn't the dog and is the owners fault the genetic make up dictates that the killer instinct inbred into them - they were bred to fight!
Time & again they show what they're capable of and yet people still want to bring them into their homes, near their children and pets...it's madness!

 

[severnmiles]

BaileyDoo, you see lots of reports regarding dog attacks just add Pitbull and the story sells, its become a witchhunt. As for Labs, one or two? You're joking the records show hundreds of dog attacks/bites by labs. I'll dig out the records for you.

You think how sweet collies are yet I was very nearly lost my eye to one. The pic below was after surgery.

It is very foolish to say one breed isn't capable of something and another is because all dogs are capable of inflicting serious injuries (though I'm not sure I'm including those hairless rats you see the stars carrying) and possibly killing.

 

[Sarah1]

When did I say Collies were sweet? I don't think they're sweet they can be quite nasty and on top of it all are really very intelligent so I think that's quite a dangerous mix!
I've just been having a quick look on the internet to find some instances of attacks by labradors - can't find any! I'll admit it was only a quick look as I'm supposed to be working (ooops!).
I did find something else that was very interesting though
http://www.dogexpert.com/Dog%20Bite%20Statistics/DogBiteStatistics.html

"In the United States, pit bulls make up one to three per cent of the overall dog population and cause more than 50 per cent of serious attacks."

"The breeds most often involved in fatal attacks are Rottweilers and Pit bulls."

"From 1979 to 1998, at least 25 breeds of dogs have been involved in bite related deaths. Pit Bulls and Rottweilers were involved in more than 50 percent of these incidences."

Scary!

I'm not saying that all dogs aren't capable of attacking people what I'm saying is that in more cases than enough it's Pit Bulls & similar fighting dogs that are the culprits! I'm sure labradors can be vicious if provoked but in my experience of labradors it would take some sort of provokation, they don't generally flip out and attack people...unlike Pit Bulls!

 

[Sarah1]

I fear this has turned into a Pit Bulls vs X other breed discussion! That was never my intention when I posted voicing my opinions on Pit Bulls & other fighting dogs.
Rightly or wrongly I would never trust a Pit Bull or similar breed and most certainly would never have one as a pet - children or no children.
Whether it's a media witch-hunt or not the fact remains that time and time again these cases are being brought into the news and I think it's time something was done about these dangerous dogs! I for 1 would not be sorry if they were wiped from the face of the planet!

 

[severnmiles]

A lab only has a soft mouth because it it used for retrieving. Ex OH's lurcher can pick a rabbit up and bring it back drop it and it can run off completely uninjured yet I've seen what he could do pre-ban. Just because a dog has such a soft mouth it can bring a live rabbit to you doesn't mean he/she can't bite!

All of below is copied and pasted so like i said about Scientific reports I don't know how much of it is tosh!

Firstly USA:

Rottweiler - 67
German Shepherd Dog - 41
Labrador/Lab mix - 36

Deaths by dogs that are legal in our country.

Average total dog bites per year - 4.7 million U.S. dog bites each year

The most lethal dogs are:
rottweilers, german shepherds, pit bulls, huskies, malamutes, dobermans, chow chows, st. bernards, great danes and akitas.

Now I know some really soft huskies/malamutes and some lovely St Bernards!

Attacks
410 - Rotties
605 - APBT's

So why are Rotties legal over here?

UK

I don't seem to be able to find much, will look when I get back from the vets!

 

[severnmiles]

See my figures re. labs and lab x's!

 

[nijinsky]

Just have to ask - you say voicing your opinions on Pit Bull and other "fighting dogs", what is other fighting dogs.

And you would never trust a pit bull or similar breed - what is a similar breed to you?

 

[WelshRareBit]

[ QUOTE ]
! I for 1 would not be sorry if they were wiped from the face of the planet!

[/ QUOTE ]

But why Bailey? Do you have hands on knowledge of the breed? Or are you going on heresay and other peoples opinions. After all as SM put so well, you cannot trust the opinions of others, even scientists. I think it is a very human thing to say wipe the breed out - just like the pesky wolf who kills sheep or the elephant who tramples peoples crops...

 

[ecrozier]

I wouldn't think to comment about APBTs, as I don't know any really, although would grant that they have been bred for fighting for many years etc etc. So not commenting on that breed.
However, I have a rottie, and I would trust him with my life. He is the softest ever creature known, has never in his life growled at anyone (he's coming up 4 now), my handbag was stolen from the cab of my lorry with him in there and he didn't even guard that! I've personally never met a nasty rottie, BUT I agree they do exist. However my Kaiber is the product of generation upon generation of show quality pedigree Rottie, who were as you probably all know a shepherd dog originally.

However, like most of these breeds, do you not think the reason that more bull breeds, rotties, GSDs etc bite people, is that the wrong type of person owns them? They become a fashion statement, if suddenly all the chavs/aggressive people started buying, say, weimeraners or rhodesian ridgebacks, do you not think we would see a massive increase in attacks by those breeds? But because they are more often owner by responsible dog owners and properly bred and looked after, we don't.
I'm not saying some breeds aren't a) more likely to attack and b) more likely to do damage than others. What I am saying is that in most cases there is a lotl more to this than just their breed.

 

[severnmiles]

Yes how sad that we nearly lost both of those species through ignorance.

It makes me laugh if you look into Native Americans lives at the end of the 1900's you'll see they lived with wolves, they hunted with them and they weren't afraid of them.

 

[Sarah1]

Pit Bulls, Bull Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers probably even Rottweilers and even though an ex-boyfrined owned one and he was as soft as a brush I'd even say Bull Mastiffs - just because of their sheer size & power, if they want to go I doubt even a grown bloke could stop them! I must point out at this point that I'm not scared of dogs - I haven't had any bad experiences etc. there are just some breeds that I wouldn't want to own in a million years!
When my ex bought the Bull Mastiff we were talking to the breeders, as you do. They told us a story of a dog they had that was attacked by a collie when he was a pup. The dog never forgot that collie and one day he had the chance to get his own back - he took the chance and shook the poor collie til it was dead, no-one could prize the dogs jaws apart to make him let go of the collie.
Now in my mind if that dog could do something like that to another dog which could defend itself then what could it do to a child?!
One of the main issues was that it locked it's jaws and would not let go - a genetic factor with any of the bull dog descendants. Add to this decades of breeding for agression and you have a very effective killing machine.
Not for me, thank you.

 

[ecrozier]

Oh, and just to add, kaib has a very soft mouth when he wants to, he play fights with my husband and they really leap and throw each other, and Kaib gets his teeth round OH's arm, leg etc etc, yet he has never had a mark on him. He has also brought me dead rabbits etc (never caught one, not quick enough!) with not a mark on them, and looks after his toys for ever, until my mum's pointer steals them and rips them to pieces!!

 

[severnmiles]

Aww Emma, he's a cutie. When I went to work for a hunting yard in Ledbury they had two rotties and I was so scared because when I was little one chased me down a road (probably my fault for running but I was only a child) yet the two at this yard were soooo soft, I absolutely loved them by the time I left and was sad to leave them.

It is the wrong sort getting hold of them, I've never doubted when they are capable of but in the 90's ex racers began to get a bad reputation because they were going free or cheap the wrong sort of owner was getting hold of them. We've had three and not had a bad one.

 

[severnmiles]

But as mentioned above my mums 15" JRT can lock his jaw so tight you can't get him off (not even with a sauce pan or a boot!), ViciJP's JRT killed a Ewe, a ewe is a heavy (heavier) than a small child so what dogs are safe to own? The ratty things Britney Spears and Paris Hilton own

 

[Sarah1]

I think a wolf killing sheep would be a case of survival, an elephant trampling crops probably a case of the same but a pit bull (or 2) attacking a child or a pony I don't think so!
They were bred to attack & kill! For decades people desired them to be more aggresive and so bred them that way!
It's not the breeds fault that people wanted them to be natural born killers but we now have to deal with the outcome and the sad fact is that the breed in general (I accept there is the odd exception before people start jumping up and down) is dangerous! That is fact!

 

[severnmiles]

Wolves were killed off in the UK through fear of them killing humans, yet apparently (again I don't know the truth of this, saw it on an animal programme on Sky) there has never been a true case of a wild wolf killing a human. They prefer to run than confront a human.

 

[nijinsky]

You are entitled to your opinion, and I am in no way defending what this particular Pit Bull Terrier has done but what really pees me off is for every time a Pit Bull is mentioned someone brings the Staffy into it, the Pit Bull can be twice the size of a staff, even an American Staff is different from an English Staff. I'm passionate about Staffies and have had them for over 20 years so would like to think I know a bit about them. Pit Bulls are illegal in this country and are dangerous dogs but you said the staffy is a dangerous dog and it is not. It's the Staff I'm defending here.

For one Blame the deed not the breed.

"Information for those wishing to object to breed specific legislation

Genetics and Behaviour
Genetics (breed) plays only a part in the temperament of an individual dog and scientific studies from around the world show that environment probably has a far greater effect. A large percentage of dog biting incidents are due to the irresponsible actions of owners, who have either not taken the time and trouble to train their dog correctly, or have indeed trained them to behave aggressively. Consequently any legislation based on genetics that ignores the influence of the dog’s keeper on its behaviour is likely to be ineffective.

Enforcement
Breed specific legislation is unworkable. In England the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 has failed to prevent a large number of dog attacks and has cost the Police millions of pounds in kennelling associated costs.

Welfare Implications
From a welfare perspective, it is concerning that dogs that have not shown any signs of aggression could end up being put to sleep or being remanded in police kennels.
Rumours about ‘Lock Jaw’ in Pit Bull Terrier Type Dogs
Scientific research has proven that the pit bull terrier and related breeds are physiologically no different from any other breed of dog. Dr Lehr Brisbin and colleagues at the University of Georgia have shown that there is nothing in the skeletal structure of the pit bull terrier jaw that is any different from that of any other dog in respect to locking.

Dogs dumped over legal confusion
Confusion over the law for pitbull and Staffordshire bull terrier dogs has resulted in dogs being left homeless. Dog wardens are having trouble finding homes for the animals left at the Bristol Dogs Home and the South Gloucestershire kennels. The situation is being partially linked to the death of Ellie Lawrenson, five, who died after being mauled by a pitbull on New Year's Day in St Helens. A dog warden for South Gloucestershire Council said it is "soul destroying". Dog warden Celine Jacobs said: "A lot of people do not seem to realise there is a difference between a pitbull and a Staffordshire and they are very different breeds. "Staffis generally have a lovely temperament and are not usually at all vicious. People should not just give them up because they think they are something else. "This year has started in the most terrible way with the attack of a little girl, but the fact of the matter is any breed can be aggressive," she said. Currently there are two Staffordshire bull terriers in South Gloucestershire kennels, along with an Alsatian and one golden retriever.

How are Staffordshire Bull Terriers with children?
In England, the Stafford is known by the affectionate nickname, "The Children's Nursemaid" or "The Nanny Dog." Their tolerance of, and affection for, children is well known. That doesn't mean, however, that it's a wise idea of put the puppy and child together without supervision. Children should learn to respect the dog and neither should indulge in play that is too rough. Some Staffords - even the males - have a "mothering instinct" and will stick right by the little ones, whether they are puppies or kids. A Stafford, "tough" and not as quick to react to pain or discomfort, is likely to make allowance for the attentions of toddler, finding a refuge only when things become too overwhelming.

I would never ever leave any dog or child alone together, whatever the breed.

 

[Sarah1]

Apologies if I have offended you by bringing the staffy into this discussion! I too was a little peeved when the labrador was dragged into it so I can see where you're coming from! As I say friends of ours have a staffy and she's a very friendly dog - she is undoubtedly more rough & tumble than our labrador and on that basis I wouldn't trust her as much, especially with small children. However, I am not the dogs owner and perhaps if the boot was on the other foot they would say the same about Daisy!
I think this is a topic on which we all may have to agree to disagree!
I don't expect to change anyones opinions and most certainly will not change mine regarding the fact that I believe that Pit Bulls are dangerous and should not be trusted!
Wouldn't do for us to all be the same I suppose!

 

[severnmiles]

You've probably offended horsenut over the collies too, because I know I did, there's only one I've ever met that I like, they always seem to hate me, snap at me heels or grab my hand and they seem so sly, yet in pics hers look so lovely so perhaps its just the way the farm dogs are brought up!

 

[Sarah1]

Well then apologies to Horsenut too!!!!!!!!

I've only met 1 collie who didn't appear to have that nasty streak in him and he was a daft as a brush! Lovely dog! In my experience though (having been brought up with dogs & been around loads at the yard etc.) you can't beat a labrador for temperament!

 

[severnmiles]

After meeting my sisters Lab I'm put off for life, fair enough he was badly mistreated though.

Mum went to push him down from the back seat of ems RR as his claws were digging in the leather and he went for her, nastily too. The vet suggested putting him to sleep as even he's frightened of him.

 

[nijinsky]

We have to all understand that ANY dog in the wrong hands can be lethal. Put the most docile "breed" of puppy in the hands of a nasty vicous owner & I would say that puppy will grow into a nasty vicous dog. If the owners are educated about their particular breed of dog and dogs in general then it's down to them to educate their animal & also educate their children about animals. Yes, granted some dogs are rougher & tougher than other dogs but it doesn't make them dangerous.

 

[Sarah1]

He really must've been badly treated, poor thing.
Honest to god I've known dozens & dozens of labradors in my life and none of them have had a nasty bone in their body!
Like nijinsky says though a portion of the blame should lie with the owner be it for bringing the dog up incorrectly or for not having adequate control so I can only assume that your sisters dogs previous owner was a total ass!
If you met my Daisy you'd be a convert - the dog won't even stand up for herself against other dogs let alone attack anything!!!!!!!

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, granted some dogs are rougher & tougher than other dogs but it doesn't make them dangerous.

[/ QUOTE ]
Um...well it does; which is why some breeds are placed on the Dangerous Dogs list

.

Numpties and useless people all over the world own many different breeds of dogs - the vast majority of these dogs do no damage to anyone.

I'm really not sure what you are implying here; are you suggesting that every single Pit Bull attack was caused by them ALL having mean and nasty owners? Because if you are then that is one heck of a statement to make.

 

[nijinsky]

I said I'm not defending what this Pit Bull Terrier has done, I am defending the Staffie as I'm fed up with every time a Pit Bull does something a Staffie is brought into it.

Nope - didn't suggest every pit bull attack was owner orientated but will say that most dog attacks are caused by owner negligence somewhere - of course not everywhere.

Some dogs are rougher & tougher - ie I'm sure my staffie plays rougher than a lab but it doesn't make him a dangerous dog - so sorry - don't agree with you.

 

[severnmiles]

Look at the pitbull owners in the UK? All drug dealers/criminals/dog fighting rings. And how many that are imported are from fighting lines? Not all APBT's have fighting lines in the first 2 gens atleast yet the majority that are brought over from Europe or Ireland have fighting lines.

How many John Smiths at number 15 own one?

There was only a hundred or so difference in the attacks by APBT's and Rotties so perhaps they should be on the DD list too but then look at Emma's...

 

[Onyxia]

[ QUOTE ]
Pit Bulls, Bull Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers probably even Rottweilers and even though an ex-boyfrined owned one and he was as soft as a brush I'd even say Bull Mastiffs - just because of their sheer size & power, if they want to go I doubt even a grown bloke could stop them!

[/ QUOTE ]
Not using their body,but that is where training comes into play.

EG,my Aunts old dane(RIP Bo Bear) had been hounded by a orden setter as a pup as a result he couldnt stand other dogs.If he saw one he was off and wanted to kill......untill my aunt raised her voice.The SECOND she said no he droped to the ground,completly submissive saying sorry mum.
He ofen had pink glittery nails, little cousin kept painting them

and was the most soppy dog,loved to play and never showed any sign of agression except to other dogs.

My mothers yorkie went for him once, because aunt shouted no, Bo just looked confused about what to do witht eh yorkie hanging off his lip-if my aunt hadnt been there bye bye yorkie.

 

[Onyxia]

[ QUOTE ]
There was only a hundred or so difference in the attacks by APBT's and Rotties so perhaps they should be on the DD list too but then look at Emma's...

[/ QUOTE ]
Which again rings us back to the same old thing- breed them well and raise them well

 

[MagicMelon]

I think ALL dog breeds have the potential to turn agressive at any point. Im most wary of little mutts like the horse-owner favourite, the jack russell! They can be horrid little things. It's just the fact that they ARE small so don't do so much damage. Doesn't make them any LESS agressive than a bigger dog.

Although, I do think that some breeds are a bit more likely to be naturally agressive because unfortunately its been bred into them in a lot of cases (ie. dog fighting etc.) but this is not the fault of the dog. It is sad that us humans can't control dogs appropriately. This is why I hate seeing dogs loose at horse events, why should I have to trust the owner that their dog is safe around my horse?!

JM07 - No, this probably wouldn't be in the news had it not been owned by a cancer child. Personally, I don't think it's any worse - ANY kid would be devastated by this, whether they had cancer or not.

 

[WelshRareBit]

[ QUOTE ]


I'm really not sure what you are implying here; are you suggesting that every single Pit Bull attack was caused by them ALL having mean and nasty owners? Because if you are then that is one heck of a statement to make.

[/ QUOTE ]

No they are caused by bad management.