Please help - advice needed

When we bought Lita it was with the aim of doing a year of Riding Club classes to get her used to competing and then affiliating. My daughter was very keen to compete (she is very competitive) however, the more we carry on the way we are going the less confident she becomes.

I suppose the point of this post was to find out whether we can find a way to improve things or whether we should just sell. I can see the consensus is to sell and this is probably what we will do - we just have to decide whether to sell her ourselves - and be able to see what sort of home she goes to - or whether to exchange her with the dealer. But there is a little part of me that thinks we shouldn't give up but should find a way to help her.
 
I agree with everyone's post. I used to work for a SJ dealer and he always said youngsters and teenages don't mix (he still sold me one though!) I can understand your worry about losing money, but if you get enough to buy the right horse for her and she can have fun again have you really lost money? You were obviously prepared to pay that much for the right horse.
My friend taught at a yard where a girl was having a similar problem. My friend bought a more suitable horse and we road tested it and then swapped them. The girl got a horse she could ride and have fun on and is still enjoying 8 years on even if she will never be a world beater. The youngster was better within weeks with us and fingers crossed is headed to Badminton this year. I think it was a win win!
 
Hi,
I would sell her, I think. As others have said, your daughter doesn't look happy or confident riding her, and in fact looks downright miserable in one of the photos, poor thing! But I wouldn't exchange her with the dealer. I have to admit to struggling to see a potential top class SJer from the photos, however she is clearly well bred and if as you say she has more potential than the photos show, then I would send her to a professional to bring on and sell for you. You will get a much better price that way and will know that the horse has a chance of fulfilling her potential and going on to an experienced, knowledgable home. You then also have cash in your pocket and are not limited to buying another horse from this dealer, who by the sounds of it didn't sell you a suitable horse last time anyway!!!!
 
Hi, I'm Abby - I ride Lita.

I'd just like to say -

Potential-wise, the photos don't show it well, but when we say Potential we don't mean she's going to be doing International SJ. We say it as it means she would take me whereever I wanted to go - she works well on the flat and could do dressage, and also has a massive jump and will jump whatever you are comitted to jumping. The reason we are jumping so small is due to me completely losing my confidence last year and I'm not completely used to Lita yet. We can't jump at home, and our jumping still needs a lot of work and I'm not comfortable jumping anything big yet.

The problem isn't with me riding her - I can work through that. My first pony isn't the easiest ride and enjoys bucking and leaping sideways in excitement and will never do exactly what you ask of her. Lita is a very intelligent horse in my opinion, and when bored or unhappy will start to play up. For instance, in these photos she has a flash on, because she gets very strong/speedy when jumping, so we went back to having a flash on her so she wouldn't open her mouth and lean on my hand like she was doing. She wouldn't jump because we wouldn't let her bolt at the fences and were trying to keep her steady, yet its really hard to find the balance on her.

But what I'm saying is, I'm not unconfident riding her and I can work through any ridden problems we have with instructors etc, although it still doesn't mean I want to get on her and jump 1m today.

The problem I have with her is on the ground. She's fine when she's calm, but the minute she gets excited she starts getting bolshy and forgets you're there. We have worked hard on getting her to stand calming, have her feet picked out, etc, but the minute she gets excited this all is forgotten. I don't feel comfortable with a 16.2hh who tries to kick me! Also, in the stable she tends to be quite strong - you can't change her rugs in her stable - she gets overexcited and shoves you into the wall, sometimes kicking out as well. I'm not sure if this is intentional or if I am in the way. This is the main problem that I feel that I can't handle her as well on the ground. My sister is slightly better, but still isn't happy with it.

She is fine to lead, we have sorted out the turning out now (although she still gallops off like a lunatic the minute we let her) and will stand calmly when not excited. We have lunged her and she will then follow you round without any lead, trot when you run, stop when you stop. It's when she gets excited she get's unmanageable.

I do like her, but I sometimes feel she would benefit from a more professional yard where she is in a strict routine with strict staff who she will respect a bit more. And I feel I might be happier with a horse I don't have to worry about all of the time - is she kicking the stables? has she hurt herself being loony on the field? At the moment I feel like I just want a horse that I can get on and have fun on!
 
I think Socks has answered the question! you have to enjoy them after all. in the meantime though, I would take her off the alfa a and see if that makes a difference (if it does it will show in 24-48 hours)
 
Hi socks, Is there not an option to move her? If you're confident of working through the ridden issues (and I think these will improve with ground skills), then it seems from your post that it's the yard/lack of facilities that will hold you back. Stable wise, she sounds like a very scared horse and I wonder what her history is, that she tries to flatten you when moving rugs around. I suppose it's difficult to put a rug gently on a 16.2!
 
Theres your answer - swap with the dealer for another slightly older horse which has been there and done a bit more...have some fun!!

If you were to go along the road of keeping her - i would deffo cut out most of her hard feed espec alfa, conditioning stuff. I cant feed my mare anything like this as it sends her loopy. She is now just on basic horse/pony nuts and a basic chaff with ad lib hay. If your trying to bulk her up just keep the hay flowing...OH also come on haylage, another known thing to send horses nuts!!

My mare can my a nightmare to handle to and be quite grumpy in the stable etc, kicking biting - it's just somthing ive learnt to deal with and is usually worse when she is bored!! She gets a firm telling of when she does somthing....as far as the jumping about in the field or lunge goes, i wouldnt matter much about that, it's just horses blowing of steam....
 
Hi Socks - here's a question for you. What do you want to do with your horse? Do you feel you have bonded with her the same way you did with your previous pony? Are you having the same amount of fun? (Okay, more than one question...). I know people who have persevered with incredibly difficult horses because they love them so much, and I also know people who have been wise enough to know that the horse they have bought is not the right one for them. Really, that is the first decision you need to look at.
 
I know of a young girl who has a fantastic dressage horse, does she have fun on it, NO, she is scared if she doesn't ride it every day, she can only school the horse because it won't go out on its own, is stroppy in the stable and by their own admission they have been done.

Luckily they have lots of money to throw at this horse, but owning a horse should be fun, and if the riders confidence is being affected then serious changes need to be made.
Deciding to sell a horse that isn't working as you hoped must be very difficult, but there are alot of horses out there who could give your daughter confidence, fun and experience, resulting in achievements far greater than banging your head against a brick wall with a mare that might not change.

Its a hard decision and you have to way up all the pro's and con's , but as a mother my childs welfare and happiness is top on the list.

Good luck in what ever you decide.
 
Please excuse me for not having read all the replies.
Based on your post, I would suggest the following;
-Teeth and back checked and perhaps a veterinary check - Although I think you have already done the first two.

-Get a groundwork expert in such as one affiliated to Monty Roberts. He has a website where you can find details of your local instructor. My horse used to be dreadful on the ground, I had 2 sessions with a Monty Roberts person. It really helped to establish his boundaries on the ground, stop him walking all over me and getting him controlled. The more confident your daughter is the more likely the horse is to respect her. I think this is why some professional support would help. This kind of thing can be overcome, my horse has no issues on the ground now.

- Getting a really decent, experienced instructor to help your daughter with the ridden work. The refusing is likely to be due to the speed she approaches jumps. Speed is one of the primary reasons a horse refuses.

I believe that the groundwork issues and the ridden stuff CAN be overcome........but I do think that some help on the ground from experienced people is essential. I think you need to act now so that things don't get any worse. I wouldn't give up until you have explored all options - I think things may well work out.

Keep us posted and PM me if I can help with contacts etc.
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I think going from the photos and the information given, your daughters simply sound a bit overhorsed. I'm not saying they're not competent riders, but the mare's behaviour sounds like it requires a really confident and experienced rider - she sounds like she is basically taking the mickey.

She is a lovely mare and I don't doubt she has got a great jump - I think your best bet would be to send her to a professional yard to be sold. They wouldn't take any nonsense and could probably deal with her behaviour to have her jumping well in a short space of time, so you wouldn't lose too much money.

If you want a horse your daughters can have fun with, then I'd look for something aged around 12 that has been there and got the tshirt. There's no shame in wanting a horse you can just enjoy.
 
Horses are first and foremost there to enjoy, especially when you're a teenager.

Give her back, get something thats less hassle and more fun.
 
I never had a pony as a child (my family couldn't afford to keep one) but had lessons and helped out as much as I could. I bought my first horse with my own money when I was 20 and was sold a totally unsuitable insane TB mare. I persevered with her for four years (trying every medical, training, etc. avenue I could explore to help her), but things only went from bad to worse (ended up that she would no longer jump, refused to hak and was even unpredictable in the school - she was dangerous to handle). I finally gave up (I had her PTS but that is a different story) and bought myself a TB x Connemara schoolmaster who got me from not riding at all to jumping affiliated, getting BD points and doing one day events - the difference was between night and day. I learnt from the horse and this allowed me to be relaxed and confident so I could handle more demanding horses (two of those later I now have a youngster as well and get on with him well). I think an unsuitable horse can lead to a downward spiral where things get worse and worse, and equally the right horse is a massive leap forward for the rider.

I completely appreciate what a difficult decision this is but I think your daughter would be happier with something more suitable.
 
The problem with the feed is that we currently have no grass in our field and she's not doing very well on it, so she's underweight and needs condition on her. I am currently feeding her exactly what she had at her previous yard which they claim she was fine on. If I were to take her off Alfa-A can anyone suggest what sort of fibre based feed it could be replaced with? I can't take her off feed altogether because of the weight problems, although nothing we are feeding her seems to be putting weight on her. She has as much haylage as she can eat, as also suggested by previous owner, however during the day we can't put haylage out in the field.



Sooty - I'm not really sure what I want to do anymore! This year I was hoping to do some local shows, one day events, and perhaps think of affiliating BSJA if I ever get that good. I do like jumping, but I don't know how confident I can be with Lita. I don't feel I have bonded with her much at all - she's very distant, whereas our pony she very moody and grumpy but also affectionate towards us. However, our pony didn't even realize we existed until we'd own her for over a year! So considering Lita has probably never had a single-owner home sort of thing, she doesn't yet understand the concept!

At the moment, I'm not having much fun with Lita. But I wasn't having a great amount of fun beforehand either, because pony would rather just gallop around fields than jump scary coloured fences. Add to that the drop in my confidence and I don't really know how to have fun anymore! I just don't know anymore whether I should keep going in the hope that it will all work out in the end if we try hard enough, or make the decision to sell her for something easier/smaller and more fun. I don't mind riding or handling difficult horses though, and if Lita was a hand smaller and slightly calmer, then I wouldn't mind at all, but I'm not big and I don't have a lot of strength behind me to put her in line when she takes advantage of me.
 
Well, having read your post I really, really think you would be happier with a different horse, or even a larger pony type. It is in no way a reflection on you, but I do think some of these imported warmbloods have had a strange 'upbringing'. They are schooled quite intensely, and taught to do a job, yet often have no idea how to behave with humans, other horses or how to hack and do 'normal', everyday things. I think she could benefit from going to someone who is more experienced with tricky horses (which is what she is, especially on the ground), and you cold benefit from something slightly less high maintenance. There are thousands of lovely horses out there, one of them will be the one for you!
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From your last post it does sound like you would be better selling her and getting something more established so you can just go out and have some fun.

The alternative is to perservere, but I don't think you will get anywhere if you carry on as you are. I do wonder whether this mare is the sort who does better living out, or at least getting a lot of turnout. Often horses that are not happy stabled show this by aggression, and often they lose weight because they are stressed by their situation.

If you do decide to perservere, then I think you should try and find somewhere to keep her with lots of turnout, and invest a lot of time and money on lessons and schooling. I would set a time limit though to see an improvement, and if things don't start turning around within that time limit, then make the decision to sell her on.
 
socks - I wish you guys were not so far away as I would gladly let you come ride my mare and have some fun again - she would be pretty perfect for what you need
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I back up what I have previously said - sell her and move on to something you can have fun with. I spent yesterday hooning around fields and then LMAO with my friends jumping fences on silly angles and playing chase me charlie - the sort of thing that you as a teenager should be doing, not me (33!!!).
 
I compete quite competitively, but as ultimately I do it as a hobby, I would not put up with a horse I couldnt spend time with in fear of being bitten kicked etc, no matter how talented it was. Part of having horses as a hobby IMHO is enjoying it and having fun, which I dont think you are doing with this mare at all. get rid and get something you can enjoy
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Hi!
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I have read all this, and all the varying advice, with great interest. I think I am coming down on the side of 'sell her in the way you are happiest with, from her point of view and your own, and find another 'easier' horse that you can relax and have fun with'.
There is a Dutch Warmblood at our yard whose owner is a BHS AI. He is six now, and she is finding it is taking all her skill and experience to cope with him and to school and teach him. He is actually pretty well mannered on the ground, too, but he's a real handful at times and truly needs someone who is pretty near professional as she is to deal with him.
It does sound to me as if Lita is just too much for you, considering how young she is. It's not just a question of riding her and jumping her, but of schooling and teaching her virtually from basics, both ridden and on the ground. This is really a professional job, I believe, with a horse as highly strung and intelligent as Lita obviously is. Please don't think I am in any way saying that you are not 'good enough' - just that I really feel that this isn't what you signed up for when you bought her.
I hope whatever you decide, that you will be happier. It would be such a shame to let this dent your confidence or enthusiasm.
 
Your daughter looks scared, uncomfortable and over horsed. Please think about your daughters safety, she does not look like she is having fun and it sounds as though she is struggling to cope with handling and riding this mare. Lita needs to go to an experienced home to help with her education. If you do decide to keep her, regular lessons (once of twice a week for a young horse), as much turnout as possible, hay and high fibre feeds may help. The mare is very pretty and I can see why you fell for her but she isn't a suitable match for a child.
 
To be fair Abby does not look like that on Lita at home. This was the pressure of the show combined with the knowledge that we were thinking of selling her. Abby is 16 - so not really a child - but can look younger. As she herself says she is not so worried about riding her - it's more handling her on the ground. Again to be fair to Lita - she has never thrown Abby or even threatened to when riding her. Currently, she is having lessons almost every week (it depends on the weather!!) I think I am more worried about Lita being happy. However, you are quite right I do always worry about both my daughter's safety. I am also aware that it is a risky sport!! Why oh why didn't they take up drama or some such thing!
 
It's a hard decision to have to make, I don't envy you. I've read all the previous replies including the ones by your daughter. She doesn't sound like she is enjoying herself and is 'worried' about handling Lita. Sell Lita to a more confident, experienced adult who will be able to educate her and get your daughter something she will feel safe on, that will give her confidence and be her 'friend'.
 
First of all i would like to say what a stunning mare.
From your comments it does sound like your daughter is over horsed. I hope everything works out for you. Also i like the way you have taken the constructive comments on board and not jumped down anyones throats - thats nice to see.
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