Please tell me why the obsession with barefoot?

[ester]

I think people who are able to manage a horse in full work, including a variety of terrain barefoot are extremely lucky. To have to use expensive hoof boots is kind of counteracting the arguament for barefoot surely? If the balance was right in their nutrition then surely they should be able to cope?

nutrition and environment and their own metabolic state, the 2nd not being all that easy to manage for the many that keep them at livery . Also lots of us have horses that have pathologies which were the initial reason we took the shoes off initially so they are starting from a way back if that makes sense.

Boots really aren't that expensive in comparison to shoes... mine were £120 (well 90 cos one was half price) and they will be a year old (and likely still going) in March.

 

[thatsmygirl]

This thread started so wellas well.

Iv known crippled horses due to trying to follow the trend.
Iv got 5 bare and 1 shod. Why's the 1 shod? Because iv had her 10 years and I know her inside out and since her shoes came off she's sound and in work but she is NOT happy in herself. She's much happier with shoes on and that's that. I would rather have her comfy I'm afraid.
Shoe or bare is up to the owners and the horses comfort.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Most horses will look sound with shoes on. A horse is either sound or its not. Their feet have to be really knackered not to be.There are many reasons for lameness other than the footThat's why people put shoes on! But if the horses are sound without shoes, why've they got them on?Because they want to SJ/XC and use studs so horse doesn't break its neck ? Bit odd unless they're just brainwashed BHS traditionalists.Ask one of our international eventers if they are brainwashed BHS tradtionalists And if they're NOT sound without shoes, can the owner just not be arsed to find out why and rather just have shoes put on?Do you know an owner who 'can't be arsed to find out why its lame ? Any person who does not seek appropriate vet treatment for a horse shod or unshod is guilty of nelgect. Why don't you report these people ?

The barefoot taliban are those that have made the effort? As you have already pointed out, it cam be such a naff sometimes and just shoving shoes on is SOOOOO much easier.

I merely pointed out that being an obsessed barefoot follower is. Having an shod horse is not the easy option,it requires finding and working with a good farrier who's shoeing suits the horse as an individual. It requires knowledge from an informed owner not blind faith.

 

[Kallibear]

Most horses will look sound with shoes on. A horse is either sound or its not.

Horse is unsound /uncomfortable without out shoes but fine with. It is lame or not?

Their feet have to be really knackered not to be.There are many reasons for lameness other than the foot

Many other causes but 60% of lameness is in of caused by the foot. We're talking about feet and therefore currently talking about foot lameness.

But if the horses are sound without shoes, why've they got them on?
Because they want to SJ/XC and use studs so horse doesn't break its neck ?
Studs are one of the only benefits of shoes. Barefoot horses have far better grip than more people think but nothing beats inch long studs on wet grass. But very few people shoe purely so they can stud up.

Bit odd unless they're just brainwashed BHS traditionalists.Ask one of our international eventers if they are brainwashed BHS tradtionalists

The highest level of competitors are usually the MOST traditional in their method of keeping horse?!

And if they're NOT sound without shoes, can the owner just not be arsed to find out why and rather just have shoes put on?Do you know an owner who 'can't be arsed to find out why its lame ? Any person who does not seek appropriate vet treatment for a horse shod or unshod is guilty of nelgect. Why don't you report these people ?

So now you think that a horse who isn't comfortable without shoes IS lame?? You said earlier they weren't. I know LOADS of people who have put shoes on their horses because it's easier than 'faffing about/putting effort in' to find out why they're not comfy without shoes.

The barefoot taliban are those that have made the effort? As you have already pointed out, it cam be such a naff sometimes and just shoving shoes on is SOOOOO much easier.

I merely pointed out that being an obsessed barefoot follower is. Having an shod horse is not the easy option,it requires finding and working with a good farrier who's shoeing suits the horse as an individual. It requires knowledge from an informed owner not blind faith.

The effort of 'finding a good farrier' hardly equates to the huge amount of effort (sorry, faffing) that goes into keeping a sensitive PITA horse comfy barefoot.

It really boils down to whether you think it's WORTH all the faffing and how damaging you think shoeing is.

 

[tallyho!]

Since when do studs prevent injury?

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Most horses will look sound with shoes on. A horse is either sound or its not.

Horse is unsound /uncomfortable without out shoes but fine with. It is lame or not?

Their feet have to be really knackered not to be.There are many reasons for lameness other than the foot

Many other causes but 60% of lameness is in of caused by the foot. We're talking about feet and therefore currently talking about foot lameness.

But if the horses are sound without shoes, why've they got them on?
Because they want to SJ/XC and use studs so horse doesn't break its neck ?
Studs are one of the only benefits of shoes. Barefoot horses have far better grip than more people think but nothing beats inch long studs on wet grass. But very few people shoe purely so they can stud up.

Bit odd unless they're just brainwashed BHS traditionalists.Ask one of our international eventers if they are brainwashed BHS tradtionalists

The highest level of competitors are usually the MOST traditional in their method of keeping horse?!

And if they're NOT sound without shoes, can the owner just not be arsed to find out why and rather just have shoes put on?Do you know an owner who 'can't be arsed to find out why its lame ? Any person who does not seek appropriate vet treatment for a horse shod or unshod is guilty of nelgect. Why don't you report these people ?

So now you think that a horse who isn't comfortable without shoes IS lame?? You said earlier they weren't. I know LOADS of people who have put shoes on their horses because it's easier than 'faffing about/putting effort in' to find out why they're not comfy without shoes.

The barefoot taliban are those that have made the effort? As you have already pointed out, it cam be such a naff sometimes and just shoving shoes on is SOOOOO much easier.

I merely pointed out that being an obsessed barefoot follower is. Having an shod horse is not the easy option,it requires finding and working with a good farrier who's shoeing suits the horse as an individual. It requires knowledge from an informed owner not blind faith.

The effort of 'finding a good farrier' hardly equates to the huge amount of effort (sorry, faffing) that goes into keeping a sensitive PITA horse comfy barefoot.

It really boils down to whether you think it's WORTH all the faffing and how damaging you think shoeing is.

Definition of lameness; Alteration in the horse's gait. The cause of which could be manifold.
Does an unshod horse that stumbles painfully across a gravel path present as sound to you ? Does it feel pain ? Would you not try to resolve the cause of the pain so the horse could move soundly again ?

Is a horse with a stone in its foot lame until the stone is removed ?


I don't find it a faff keeping my horses unshod, despite having different horses and in different areas. I'd rather spend my time riding than obsessing.

 

[TwoStroke]

Definition of lameness; Alteration in the horse's gait. The cause of which could be manifold.
Does an unshod horse that stumbles painfully across a gravel path present as sound to you ? Does it feel pain ? Would you not try to resolve the cause of the pain so the horse could move soundly again ?

All barefooters would try to resolve the CAUSE. Shoeing is not resolving the cause, it is masking the symptom.

 

[Hippona]

All barefooters would try to resolve the CAUSE. Shoeing is not resolving the cause, it is masking the symptom.

Indeed.

If your horse is footie.....and you shoe it......then its still footie.
Only its got shoes on....which hides the footie-ness, not cured it.

 

[Kallibear]

Definition of lameness; Alteration in the horse's gait. The cause of which could be manifold.
Does an unshod horse that stumbles painfully across a gravel path present as sound to you ? Does it feel pain ? Would you not try to resolve the cause of the pain so the horse could move soundly again ?

Is a horse with a stone in its foot lame until the stone is removed ?


I don't find it a faff keeping my horses unshod, despite having different horses and in different areas. I'd rather spend my time riding than obsessing.

Eh, yes? You seem to be under the impression that those who 'faff' are quite happy letting their horse be lame (in all it's definitions?

The difference between between you and the 'obsessed' is you think it's acceptable/normal for an unshod horse to be lame and will quite happily just put shoes on to make it comfortable. The Obsessed thinks 'why the hell ia my horse not comfortable. What's wrong with it? Lets try and fix the root cause'.

And Im quite capable of multitasking : Im usually riding whilst obsessed about his feet Often thinking 'thank god he's not got shoes on' whilst hammering up the road at a trot with the hunt/common ride.

 

[tallyho!]

Definition of lameness; Alteration in the horse's gait. The cause of which could be manifold.
Does an unshod horse that stumbles painfully across a gravel path present as sound to you ? Does it feel pain ? Would you not try to resolve the cause of the pain so the horse could move soundly again ?

Is a horse with a stone in its foot lame until the stone is removed ?


I don't find it a faff keeping my horses unshod, despite having different horses and in different areas. I'd rather spend my time riding than obsessing.

So what? Why does it matter if someone spends more time "obsessing" than you do?

 

[cptrayes]

No, only what I read on here.

I know plenty of people who have working unshod horses though and we're too busy riding to fanny about with putting on hoof boots, balancing minerals, listening to trimmers give lenghty life style advice, scrubbing hooves and applying all those pots of lotions and potions sold on barefooty sites, and mucking out because grass is not good for horses.

All the people I know/have known, with unshod horses just use a hoofpick, good forage, good farrier and plenty of exercise.

No obsessing, no fannying.

So the only people you know who had horses who were't in the easy-peasy category, went straight back to shoes?

That's fine, no problems, but for three of the horses I have had, continuing with shoes would have meant the death of two and a life stuck in a field from 8 years old for the other.

I'll bet those and other horses like them are glad as glad that I don't have the same aversion to "fannying around" that you do

 

[cptrayes]

This thread started so wellas well.

Iv known crippled horses due to trying to follow the trend.
Iv got 5 bare and 1 shod. Why's the 1 shod? Because iv had her 10 years and I know her inside out and since her shoes came off she's sound and in work but she is NOT happy in herself. She's much happier with shoes on and that's that. I would rather have her comfy I'm afraid.
Shoe or bare is up to the owners and the horses comfort.

I have no problem with you having shod her, but can you tell us if you went straight for shoes or did anything to adjust her diet and her lifestyle to get her fully fit without them on first?

 

[cptrayes]

I merely pointed out that being an obsessed barefoot follower is. Having an shod horse is not the easy option,it requires finding and working with a good farrier who's shoeing suits the horse as an individual. It requires knowledge from an informed owner not blind faith.

Speaking from experience on many horses now, it's a heck of a lot more responsibility taking full control of your horse's hooves and havign a farrier is much less stressful except for replacing shoe loss, waiting for them when they are late, and on the purse.

 

[micki]

I have no problem with you having shod her, but can you tell us if you went straight for shoes or did anything to adjust her diet and her lifestyle to get her fully fit without them on first?

To be honest does it really matter. Being without shoes didn't work for that particular horse, shoes do that is what matters in my opinion and i will always say that going without is best if it works which it does for mine and i'm willing to faf to get it right for them.

 

[cptrayes]

Do you know an owner who 'can't be arsed to find out why its lame ? Any person who does not seek appropriate vet treatment for a horse shod or unshod is guilty of nelgect. Why don't you report these people ?

I know loads, you know loads. Every person who thinks that because their unsound horse has come sound with shoes, it's now a sound horse. Only a small percentage of them are right, the rest have sick feet which would have come right barefoot if the owner had been able (not everyone can, especially in a livery yard) to do a bit more "faffing about".

 

[cptrayes]

To be honest does it really matter. Being without shoes didn't work for that particular horse, shoes do that is what matters in my opinion and i will always say that going without is best if it works which it does for mine and i'm willing to faf to get it right for them.

Yes it matters. We are on a public forum where people are being criticised from time to time for having horses that are temporarily footie and being told to put shoes on them.

Those people need to know whether they are being advised by people who genuinely have a horse who cannot go barefoot, or by someone who was not prepared (or not in a position) to do some tweeks to diet, environment and exercise that would swiftly have resulted in the horse being absolutely fine with no shoes on.

 

[Shysmum]

You know what - reading through this thread, there it seems there has been so much of a turnaround in HHO's attitude to all things barefoot - really interesting. I bet in a few hundred years, barefoot could be the norm - owners seem to be wising up that hoof health is a total reflection of horse health.

 

[JFTDWS]

I have no problem with you having shod her, but can you tell us if you went straight for shoes or did anything to adjust her diet and her lifestyle to get her fully fit without them on first?

That's big of you


With threads like these, it's no wonder newbies think the forum is "obsessed" with barefoot. They just go on and on and on, bickering and picking arguments about people's choices with their horses. Does it really matter, provided they're sound and their owners are happy?

 

[amandap]

Does it really matter, provided they're sound and their owners are happy?

Ah,a point to rouse me, but I've nailed my fingers to the table so I can't post about it and get involved in the bickering.

 

[cptrayes]

I know plenty of people who have working unshod horses though and we're too busy riding to fanny about with .......... balancing minerals

The problem I have with this statement of yours Horserider, is that it shows that you are completely unaware how lucky you are to live in an area where your grazing and the grass cut for your forage are already well balanced.

Many people live in areas either severely depleted in essential minerals (calcium being a favourite) or with a heavy overload (iron and manganese being the favourites here).

Now, if I didn't care two hoots about mineral balancing either, I'd be saying "one of my horses is a shire cross with great big strong feet and he does fine without shoes on, but the other two need shoes and if they need them then that's fine by me, they get what they need."

And in the meantime, those two more sensitive horses have iron and manganese overload, which is causing them copper deficiency, which is not quite strong enough to show in any way except that in spring and summer when they eat only local forage (my grass) instead of imported haylage, one would be footie on stones and the other would be laminitic to the point of being too sore to be ridden unless taken off the grass.

Your luck in where your horses live allows you to faff less than some other people do to keep their horses barefoot, and yet you mock them for it. Nice, eh?

 

[PandorasJar]

Prior to this forum I honestly never though about the terms because I simply didn't have shoes on most or one was shod. So I use barefoot and unshod, both simply meaning that they don't have shoes on.
None have different diets and none have anything put on the hoof (my farrier was happy with me putting some things on as would just waste my money, unhappy with some as could do damage) and no hoof boots as they've got hardy feet. No youngsters are yet ridden so if the need arises I will look at different options at the time and the broodies are fine without.
The most important thing to me is getting a good farrier/trimmer who is willing to do the best thing for the horse and happy to direct you but also listen to queries/suggestions you have. With a friends horse whose feet were crumbling shoes were whipped off (told it needed shoes as bad feet) they are now rock solid and look great. Not the case for all but in this one the shoes were causing the crumbly feet, not saving them.

I think it can get very preachy on both sides and think the majority of horses don't need shoes if managed in a certain way, but that way isn't always possible and some horses simply need them. I think they are also invaluable in some remedial work.

 

[Kallibear]

The problem I have with this statement of yours Horserider, is that it shows that you are completely unaware how lucky you are to live in an area where your grazign and the grass cut for your forage are already well balanced.

Many people live in areas either severely depleted in essential minerals (calcium being a favourite) or with a heavy overload (iron and manganese being the favourites here).

Now, if I didn't care two hoots about mineral balancing either, I'd be saying "one of my horses is a shire cross with great big strong feet and he does fine without shoes on, but the other two need shoes and if they need them then that's fine by me, they get what they need."

And in the meantime, those two more sensitive horses have iron and manganese overload, which is causing them copper deficiency, which is not quite strong enough to show in any way except that in spring and summer when they eat only local forage (my grass) instead of imported haylage, one would be footie on stones and the other would be lamintic.

Your luck in where your horses live allows you to faff less than some other people, and yet you mock them for it. Nice, eh?

Don't forget she's probably also 'lucky' she has a diet tolerant horse. Like Piper, who can pretty much eat what the he want and still rock crunches.

JDFT : same could be said for saddle fitting : Saddle doesn't look a great fit but horse seems to move ok and they don't bite when I tack up, plus it's dead comfy so I love it. Takes a while to find out if the shoes , sorry saddle, is doing any damage.

 

[cptrayes]

That's big of you


With threads like these, it's no wonder newbies think the forum is "obsessed" with barefoot. They just go on and on and on, bickering and picking arguments about people's choices with their horses. Does it really matter, provided they're sound and their owners are happy?

How do you want me to word it? I'm trying to express the fact that I am not obessive about whether her horse wears shoes or not.


Yes, it matters, there is more research coming out that many horses are actively damaged by shoes. The last peice I saw had a significant measurable reduction in size of the foot at the coronet band after only a few weeks. If it turns out to be the case that shoes actively damage, then the fewer which wear them, for the least possible time, is surely the way to go?

And therefore it is important that we find out which horses can and can't go without shoes and WHY. Putting shoes on a footie horse without exploring whether anything can be done to keep that horse shoe free, although it may be the only thing that particular owner can do, does not help an owner who is trying to avoid doing that.

So if an owner posts on a thread "my horse could not do it", I personally like to know what else was tried before re-shoeing, so that I can add it to the databank of advice that I would give to other people, some of whom, yes shock horror , I advise to shoe.

 

[JFTDWS]

How do you want me to word it? I'm trying to express the fact that I am not obessive about whether her horse wears shoes or not.

Damn right - it's her choice, her horse - even if you disagree...

Yes, it matters, there is more research coming out that many horses are actively damaged by shoes...

There are many things people do which are imperfect for equine health, particularly if you believe all the (mostly low quality) research which is available. People do it because it is impractical to do otherwise, and while the horse is sound and has QoL, I don't actually agree that it matters.

 

[Spring Feather]

None have different diets and none have anything put on the hoof (my farrier was happy with me putting some things on as would just waste my money, unhappy with some as could do damage) and no hoof boots as they've got hardy feet. No youngsters are yet ridden so if the need arises I will look at different options at the time and the broodies are fine without.

Outwith this forum, neither have I heard about all this palaver with keeping horses unshod and I never ever hear anyone referring to their horse as barefoot. The only time, and I know I keep harping on about it, any eyebrows are raised where I live is if someone has shoes on their horses feet and everyone automatically thinks there's something wrong with the horse if it has to wear shoes. I have over 50 horses, none wear shoes (although I certainly would have them shod if I felt it best for the individual horse), none have all these extra special lotions and potions or super-duper feedstuffs Mine are all on just a good balanced diet with good grazing in the summer and fed a nutrtionally balanced feed and quality hay during the winter months. Sooo maybe the OP does have a point after all? Because more and more it really is starting to look like some do have an obsession (on both sides of the divide I hasten to add)

 

[cptrayes]

There are many things people do which are imperfect for equine health, particularly if you believe all the (mostly low quality) research which is available. People do it because it is impractical to do otherwise, and while the horse is sound and has QoL, I don't actually agree that it matters.

We will have to differ if you do not think that avoidable things that damage horses do not matter or if you think that wearing shoes is not avoidable for the majority of horses.

 

[JFTDWS]

JDFT : same could be said for saddle fitting : Saddle doesn't look a great fit but horse seems to move ok and they don't bite when I tack up, plus it's dead comfy so I love it. Takes a while to find out if the shoes , sorry saddle, is doing any damage.

I don't have a problem with that either - provided the horse is sound and happy in his work, I reckon the saddle probably isn't actually too much of a problem... Not many horses will work properly without complaint in a saddle which doesn't fit, ime.

 

[micki]

I agree with you cptrayes and i would love to see every horse going without shoes but i just can't see it happening. I know how people react when they know i don't put shoes on my horses, they just don't believe that they can possibly go on the roads ever. It's why i've got to the point that if the owner is going to put shoes back on their horse it doesn't matter what anyone says to them they will do it. The only ones that listen are those that really want to listen and not put the shoes back on at the first problem. It's why i said does it matter if the owner had checked everything out before putting shoes back on.

 

[cptrayes]

Outwith this forum, neither have I heard about all this palaver with keeping horses unshod and I never ever hear anyone referring to their horse as barefoot. The only time, and I know I keep harping on about it, any eyebrows are raised where I live is if someone has shoes on their horses feet and everyone automatically thinks there's something wrong with the horse if it has to wear shoes. I have over 50 horses, none wear shoes (although I certainly would have them shod if I felt it best for the individual horse), none have all these extra special lotions and potions or super-duper feedstuffs Mine are all on just a good balanced diet with good grazing in the summer and fed a nutrtionally balanced feed and quality hay during the winter months. Sooo maybe the OP does have a point after all? Because more and more it really is starting to look like some do have an obsession (on both sides of the divide I hasten to add)

I think you are not only in the States, but in a part of it which is very favourable to barefoot horses and where MOST horses have no shoes on?

You really aren't in a good position to judge about how much effort can be needed to keep a horse in dank wet UK with severe mineral imbalances in a very high proportion of grazing, with farriers and vets who are taught that shoes are absolutely required for any horse that is in hard work, especially on roads.

I have friends who trained trimming in the US and who live in the US and it's a different world, horsewise!

 

[JFTDWS]

We will have to differ if you do not think that avoidable things that damage horses do not matter or if you think that wearing shoes is not avoidable for the majority of horses.

I think it is no more damaging than other management choices which are common in this country, and that it is similarly impractical to avoid shoeing some working horses. I actually don't care whether people choose to shoe or not, and I don't see why you feel it is your business to preach at people whose opinions differ from your own.