please watch these vids of my horse being lunged, I don't know what's wrong with him!

[AmyMay]

Calm down Reriverrock. A Bute trial is not unusual, and would usually consist of 1 bute a day, with light exercise, which certainly doesn't include lunging.

I agree about the pelvis - we all know that is a load of rubbish - but those with less experience may not.

For what it's worth, if an owner thinks there's something wrong with a horse there usually is. So I'd personally go with a lameness work up every time. And actually agree with BHW on reflection that it could be something like ringbone.

If the horse is showing no obvious signs of lameness, but even the most subtle changes are being felt by the OP, good on her. And she should follow her gut and insist on the workup.

 

[sophiebailey]

Popped in is a colloquial term I used rather than going into the in's and outs of muscular structures ... Of course I'm aware a pelvis cannot be popped in. I didn't condone putting him on bute.

I know my field isn't flat but I'm not fortunate enough to have a school or flat surface, so I have to make do with what I have.

 

[sophiebailey]

** neither did I condemn a bute trial, I was asking for opinions

 

[SpottedCat]

Popped in is a colloquial term I used rather than going into the in's and outs of muscular structures ... Of course I'm aware a pelvis cannot be popped in. I didn't condone putting him on bute.

I know my field isn't flat but I'm not fortunate enough to have a school or flat surface, so I have to make do with what I have.

You don't need a school or flat surface, so don't worry about that. A bute trial is a perfectly acceptable method of diagnosing whether pain is an issue or not.

I don't think the fact he wouldn't be caught means he is fine - my horse had a mad 5 mins round the field the other day but is actually 4/10 lame.

In your shoes I'd be speaking to the vet, outlining your concerns, asking if you can email the vids to them and being insistent that they take you seriously. My horse got through two 3DE trot ups and was checked by the on site vet at one and was bilaterally lame in front - I knew he wasn't right but they all passed him as fine.

 

[sophiebailey]

Should also perhaps explain that is was always my intention to have the vet involved, I just wanted opinions so I could be better informed when I spoke to them. Before this thread if I'd have rung the vet and they'd asked me what was wrong my answer would have been I don't know! Now I've got some good ideas and a starting point for when the vet comes

 

[SpottedCat]

I don't know is also valid though - your job isn't to diagnose, it's to say 'he used to be like this and now he is like this and this is what I've noticed' - so all the stuff in your OP is relevant, the 'hmm he's not right and I think it could be here' from all of us, well, isn't really!

It's more about being insistent that there is an issue somewhere than knowing where IMO.

 

[sophiebailey]

Fair point SC am waiting on a call back from vet, hopefully we can get the ball rolling with finding out what's up with the little terror

 

[ihatework]

TBH he looks a bit croc all over, I suspect you have some arthritic changes going on, which is causing compensation in his movement and muscular soreness/unevenness. But then don't count on my, or others internet diagnosis!! You are doing the right thing by getting a second vet opinion OP, good luck and hope things are fixable for you, he looks like a lovely chap.

 

[meesha]

the vets thought there was nothing wrong with my mare until we lunged on level ground - from a trot up she just looked lazy but on the lunge she was bi-laterally lame in front - turns out she has enormous sidebone (both feet but one worse than other). Sidebone doesnt often make them lame but she is now a beautiful field ornament- in no pain since it has settled but its so big its restricting the movement in that foot. My point is if you think something is wrong, follow your gut and insist on more tests etc.

I would personally take gorgeous chap out for a walk in hand for some grazing (I wouldnt lunge until vet comes) just to see if he tracks up, stretches down ok etc - you may get a little more info to give the vet. Also check to see if he is reluctant to have a certain leg picked up as that may indicate he doesnt want to put weight on the other leg. You could also try seeing if he is comfortable taking carrot from you if you hold it by girth area - do it either side - again to see if there is any stiffness.

Hopefully its something simple, try not to panic - if he is happy in the field then thats got to be good news.

 

[siennamum]

TBH he looks a bit croc all over, I suspect you have some arthritic changes going on, which is causing compensation in his movement and muscular soreness/unevenness. But then don't count on my, or others internet diagnosis!! You are doing the right thing by getting a second vet opinion OP, good luck and hope things are fixable for you, he looks like a lovely chap.

I agree. If anything I think he looks to be going short on his off fore, but he generally looks a bit sore/stiff. A vet workup will put your mind at rest.

 

[Troylimbo1]

Hi,
I haven't read all the replies but .......
Your horse is behaving in EXACTLY the same way as mine did. As a 6 year old he was soooo lazy 99.9%of the time butb occasionally he would react in the same was as yours is doing which was so out of character.
So many people said its behavioural, get after him, get an instructor, you're not brave enough (you get the idea).
Even the vets were at loss as he wasn't actually 'lame'.
At my wits end one day after he bolted with me onto a busy road I changed vets and demanded a bone scan.
There lay my answer. Osteoarthritis of the spine (pretty much all of it) and bilateral hock spavins.
My horse had to scream at me that there was something wrong and I will never forgive myself for that. Please please get a vet (a different one if you need to) on board and get some proper answers.
I would hate for you to get to the point I did.
I now have a 7 year old field pet but at least I know that he is not in pain from me sitting on his back!
Oh and he hoolies round the field with the best of them so don't let that behaviour make you think he is fine.
Good luck with it all

 

[Waffles]

Apologies for not reading through all the posts = have watched all three videos. He looks like he is suffering sudden pain in his offside hock, and possibly stifle - like a tendon pain that you get from bony growth such as arthritis.

 

[TrasaM]

I agree. If anything I think he looks to be going short on his off fore, but he generally looks a bit sore/stiff. A vet workup will put your mind at rest.

Ok..I going to stick my neck out here. As I commented originally when I watched the videos I could see that he was really stiff through his back but my eyes kept being drawn to the front. In particular the front right shoulder. My experience with horses is very limited so I don't know why I felt so strongly about this. If your horse was in front of me my hand would be going to his right shoulder just behind the withers. It's only that two others have Also said right front that I've taken a chance and made this comment. As I said I'm not experienced with horses so this is just a hunch (no pun intended and I've never felt compelled to comment on something like this before.

 

[Black_Horse_White]

^^^ I thought that too.

 

[sophiebailey]

TrasaM there could be a lot of truth in what you're saying as I've generally been told if one front leg is suffering, the opposite hind leg will also be, and vice versa, as they try to compensate for the bad leg, so I shall be also mentioning this to the vet

 

[JoannaC]

I'd get a physio out as now the chiropractor has straightened him out as mentioned he'll be sore. When my mare put her pelvis out I had the chiro and physio up together and chiro just needed the one session and then the physio took over and did a few sessions which sorted her out. But difficult to really tell so vet always first port of call. Hope you can get him comfortable again.

 

[HashRouge]

He kept tripping all the time (Ground is uneven but he never usually trips that badly)

Can I ask about the tripping OP? You said that he "never usually trips that badly" - does that mean he usually trips a bit? If so, is it generally on the same leg? The reason I ask is that although tripping can be associated with all sorts of things, like navicular, my vet told me that it is often seen in horses with arthritis in the coffin joint. Pain in the joint causes them not to lift the leg high enough, and this leads them to trip. My own mare (now 19) started tripping last autumn. She didn't do it often, usually only once or twice a ride, but it was almost always on the same leg (right fore). I spoke to the vet and she suggested a bute trial to see if there was an improvement. There was, which confirmed her suspicion about arthritis, and then we moved on to x-rays, which showed the vet to be right.
I would certainly speak to the vet about the possibility of arthritis in one or both forelegs. Pain in the front legs can lead the horse to carry themselves oddly, and lead to pain in the back or pelvis. Although I agree with posters who've said that a full lameness work up is probably the best place to start. Don't be fobbed off with the "it's probably arthritis and you just need to ride through it". Horses should not be ridden through pain, in my opinion.

 

[sophiebailey]

I would describe the frequency of his tripping as erratic! We can go months and months with no trips, then if he's not being worked regularly the tripping is more frequent. Last time the physio came she said he had a weak left fore and that's why he tripped, so she gave me stretches to do with him to try and strengthen that x

 

[Black_Horse_White]

What is he like turning on a tight circle on hard ground? My horse had low articular ringbone and he used to shuffle when turned, and he did trip. He was lame in trot ok in walk. It was confirmed by X-rays at the yard. Really hope it's nothing serious, good luck with your boy.

 

[Bedlam]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I stand by my comment on page 3 about not believing anyone who says they can put a twisted pelvis 'back in'. Just think about the strength that would be needed to do that and if it was that easy then surely it would just flop around all over the place whenever the horse rolled? It just doesn't make rational sense!

My other point now would be that you could go through the thread and count possible diagnoses and probably run out of fingers to add them up on. This is because we can't possibly say what is wrong. I suppose that the best conclusion you can come to is that at least no one has responded saying that nothing is wrong, so you could feasibly conclude that there probably is something wrong.

Following me? I think the only sensible course of action now is to call in a vet to find out what that something is.

 

[Marydoll]

Hi op, your horse looks bilaterally lame behind to me, not just stiff, he has very little flexion in his hocks on moving.
At his age im pretty sure he has arthritis in both his hocks, but he isnt moving through his back properly either, this could be secondary to the lameness or part of the overall problem.
I would get another vet out to try to get him more comfortable because your boy doesnt look happy at present.

 

[kirstykate]

Sorry if I am repeating any one but I havent read all the posts just looked at the vids. I think your pony is wrong in front, and I would be seeking a second opinion.

 

[Wagtail]

Due to a few people saying he is wrong in front, I took another look. The most glaringly obvious thing is that he is wrong behind and to be honest, that is where I focussed my attention. However, if you ignore the hind end, he does have a problem in front. On the second clip on the right rein just before he shoots off, you can see he is not putting his right fore down properly. This looks like foot pain to me. I think your horse has several things going on, to be honest. I would be asking for a full lameness work up. How is he when you lift his feet? Any problems in front or behind? What is he like with the farrier?

 

[sophiebailey]

No problems lifting and picking out feet, no problems with the farrier. No heat in any hooves, no digital pulse in any leg, just one unhappy pony

 

[OWLIE185]

The first thing I would do is to get the vet to take bloods and see what shows up.
Following that I would get x-rays done of all his joints front and rear to see if there is any arthritis.
If nothing significant shows up then I would suggest that your horse needs daily gentle excercise and kept in a walk only to very slowly get him going again.

 

[jojo5]

I have read all of these posts and watched your vids. I have a 22/24 yr old boy who was treated for spavin when he was twelve, and then went on to do all sorts of things. Nowadays we hack out 3/4 times per week, and go showing now and then. I have a great vet from a dedicated equine practice, who gives my boy an 'MOT' every 6 months. Three years ago this included circles on a hard surface as I had some concern about tripping - you can guess that he did not look good. Since then, he has been shod by a remedial farrier with balance shoes to aid rollover. Nowadays when the ground in our fields is dry and rutty we ride somewhere else, as he can be very 'pottery ' on this type of surface. At other times he is jogging, pulling and generally rude when food is about! What I am getting around to is that your lovely looking boy is 'a certain age', so some (not all) of the issues you may see in his way of going are bound to happen, especially in short-coupled cob-built equines. We do our best to manage their weight, do our best for their feet and joints (devils claw, glucosamine, oil etc), and listen to them when they dont like the ground. You are the best judge of what fits into the above profile, and what has become unusual about your boy's behaviour in recent weeks. As others have said, make sure the vet listens to all this info coming from the best person to know it aprt from your boy, you.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Our then 25 yr old cob mare had a nasty bout of prolonged colic. We got her through it and decided to retire her as it had pulled her down so much that it was obvious that she would be off work for months and no-one really knew what had made her colic in the first place.
6 yrs later we have wondered if we did the right thing in retiring her. She is sprightly, happy in the herd and generally well in herself. But I would say that it took her well over 12 months to get back to 'normal'. It is possible that your horse needs more time to recover form his colic. FWIW, I thought he looked to be going short on the off-fore, which could mean a problem in the near-fore.
I hope your vet comes up with something. I've often asked a vet about an animal, had them say, 'I can't find anything' and then have to go back in a week or 2, when the vet has been able to diagnose the problem. When you know your animal well you can often spot sub-clinical signs.

 

[SadKen]

Please come back and give us an update when you find out Sophie - I think everyone would like to know. I hope it's something easily fixed, best of luck.

 

[Happy H]

I'm no expert, but it looks like feet to me - is he worse on hard ground?

If their feet are sore for a while, that can often cause secondary back problems which your chiro would be able to sort, but if the feet are still sore, the back problems will return.

Let us know how you get on!

 

[muff747]

I haven't had time to read all the posts, just in my lunch break - but I wondered if anyone had suggested laminitis?
I realise you have said no heat no pulses etc but if I were you I would try taking him off the grass, soaked hay only no feeds, and have blood tests done for PPID as soon as possible. Sorry if this has already been done but he just looks all over uncomfortable to me and the spooking is him shouting "I'm not feeling well - get me out of here"
If that comes up normal (I'll be surprised if it does at his age though)
then as suggested before, perhaps the colic episode is still there and he needs more time, being as he's older now.
I would also do a worm count and blood test for tape worm, these can cause colic - unless this has been done again sorry don't rely on just worming him because if he is PPID, he may have no resistance to them and wormers don't always work, as I found out with my 20 y.o. He had a high worm burden despite always being wormed with the yard programme and he was later found to be PPID. Good luck with your lovely boy
Just found you have mentioned lami before but I would still err on the careful side and treat him as if he has, just to be safe. It looks like good grazing at your place and if he does happen to be PPID, this is the time of year when he will go down with lami - better to be safe than leave it to chance .