Poor TB - Feed advice to build topline please!

3Beasties

3Beasties

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My 17 year old TB had a very quiet Summer/Autumn work wise so has dropped a huge amount of muscle. He is never one to look like he has got great topline but at the moment he looks worse then ever.

He is currently fed - Hifi molasses free (2 big scoops a day), conditioning cubes (2 big scoops a day) and outshine (400g a day). This is split between 3 feeds.

He has adlib haylage at night (but he doesnt eat much) and has haylage out in the field too. Grazing is terrible but hopefully he will be moving to a better field soon.

I ride him 3 or 4 times a week, mainly hacking at the moment to build his fitness. We do as much hill work as possible but there isn't a great deal around here.

Thankfully he seems to be holding his weight well but is there anything I could add to his diet to help develop his top line alongside the exercise?

Here's a picture of him from today (please excuse the terrible clip :o :o )
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This was him last Winter
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And at the beginning of the summer
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Big fans of Omega Rice here, all 3 of our TBs are fed it along with linseed and alpha beet and it really does pack the pounds on more than anything else. Lily doesn't like alpha beet, so gets readi-mash instead, I think. But Omega Rice is fantastic stuff and non-heating.

In 4 weeks Lily has almost doubled in size. She made your boy look porky when she arrived. Now, she's more than presentable and also very shiny :D
 
When was he fitted with his current saddle? He has terrible muscle wastage due to the saddle that has nothing to do with top line. He is not actually that skinny.
 
His saddle is checked regularly.

I never said he was skinny, I'm pleased with his weight, but he has dropped a lot of muscle from being out of work.
 
Sandy the new guy here is on the rowan barbury extra mash, tops spec alfalfa, beet pulp and linseed and is looking good :)

Id say a combination of feeding and long and low work to get his back up and working properly. He has the same topline as my friends last TB who unfortunately had a few issues we didnt know about and we struggled for over a year with various things/feeds trying to get weight and topline on him :o He was diagnosed with EMS and Cushings and showed no other signs other than his weight and topline was his normal self and no extra fur or filled eye pockets etc.

Not wishing to provoke bad thoughts but we never suspected this in a 15yr old TB :o
 
Also, I would be very concerned about his feet. Sorry, I know you didn't ask about this but I have to say something.
 
Some linseed added onto his feed should put some more fat on him, Also instead of walking up the hills try and let him trot halfway up the hill as it will make his muscles work harder which will make them 'Come Back' as such over time.
 
Falcon Feeds, and I think they get a scoop in each meal (so twice a day). I think they get a big scoop of alpha beet in each meal too, with alpha-a oil chaff.
 
Xmas Beastie said:
Sandy the new guy here is on the rowan barbury extra mash, tops spec alfalfa, beet pulp and linseed and is looking good :)

Id say a combination of feeding and long and low work to get his back up and working properly. He has the same topline as my friends last TB who unfortunately had a few issues we didnt know about and we struggled for over a year with various things/feeds trying to get weight and topline on him :o He was diagnosed with EMS and Cushings and showed no other signs other than his weight and topline was his normal self and no extra fur or filled eye pockets etc.

Not wishing to provoke bad thoughts but we never suspected this in a 15yr old TB :o
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He's 17. Has got navicular and arthritis in his hocks so have to be careful about what work we do.
 
I'm not at all a fan of starch for adding condition (or for anything else for that matter ;)). I would replace the outshine with linseed, and the conditioning cubes with grass nuts - the higher fibre ones - and see how that goes. If more is needed I'd try oats.
 
Wagtail said:
Also, I would be very concerned about his feet. Sorry, I know you didn't ask about this but I have to say something.
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I what way? He usually has heart bars on the front but farrier put normal ones on this time as he'd lost a shoe and pulled a lot of hoof away with it. His backs are due to be done.
 
3Beasties said:
He's 17. Has got navicular and arthritis in his hocks so have to be careful about what work we do.
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Long and low work shouldnt hurt his arthritis or his navi, it just encourages him to stretch his nose to the floor and use his back more, I use this with my 22yr old who has arthritis and hes none the worse for it. Getting them to stretch down is better than working them with their heads up as they hollw even if the head looks in and pretty.

I would get him blood tested though. Ive had my old man done and thankfully hes clear but hes fat and happy with good topline for an oldie due to being worked properly over the years :)
 
Xmas Beastie said:
Long and low work shouldnt hurt his arthritis or his navi, it just encourages him to stretch his nose to the floor and use his back more, I use this with my 22yr old who has arthritis and hes none the worse for it. Getting them to stretch down is better than working them with their heads up as they hollw even if the head looks in and pretty.

I would get him blood tested though. Ive had my old man done and thankfully hes clear but hes fat and happy with good topline for an oldie due to being worked properly over the years :)
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Sorry, didn't mean long and low would hurt him, if anything it will make life easier for him. My comment was more towards the amount of work he does and how much trotting he does on the roads etc. :)
 
3Beasties said:
I what way? He usually has heart bars on the front but farrier put normal ones on this time as he'd lost a shoe and pulled a lot of hoof away with it. His backs are due to be done.
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I now see you have said he has navicular and I am not surprised. His toes are way too long and his heels are terribly underrun. His DDFT will be pinched and stretched. That in itself can cause navicular syndrome. I suspect he will also have some negative rotation of the pedal bones. Has he had xrays? If so, how recent? The photograph of him last year show his toes re much better and shorter and the pastern hoof axis looks much better.
 
Wagtail said:
I now see you have said he has navicular and I am not surprised. His toes are way too long and his heels are terribly underrun. His DDFT will be pinched and stretched. That in itself can cause navicular syndrome. I suspect he will also have some negative rotation of the pedal bones. Has he had xrays? If so, how recent? The photograph of him last year show his toes re much better and shorter and the pastern hoof axis looks much better.
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Thank you. I will mention it to my farrier next time he comes and see if he can get him back to how he was last year. He was diagnosed with Navic the Summer of 2011 which is when the Xrays where done.
 
There's no such thing as typical TB feet - that's just another word for poor feet. If what wagtail says is true (I'm on my phone so the pics are tiny!) then I'd urge you to think carefully about his shoeing. Heart bars will cause his caudal hoof (the back part of the foot) to deteriorate even further, which will worsen his navicular.
 
My TB has just turned 23 and is similar build in some ways to yours.
He always looks under muscled in winter as we don't get out as much as I would like, maximum workload in summer is hacking 3 times per week and he looks great (for his age) then. I can't currently lunge due to the ground (and don't have access to school) but am currently doing in hand hacks in a pessoa as well as riding, this has helped quite a bit. We do have a lot of hills though which helps!
When he's not in regular work the first thing that disappears is muscle across the back and behind withers (which are huge!).
Feedwise he's on Alpha A molasses free (highest calorie chaff that I could find), Copra meal, speedibeet and 2 mugs linseed per day, plus ad lib hay.
 
TwoTurtleDoves said:
There's no such thing as typical TB feet - that's just another word for poor feet. If what wagtail says is true (I'm on my phone so the pics are tiny!) then I'd urge you to think carefully about his shoeing. Heart bars will cause his caudal hoof (the back part of the foot) to deteriorate even further, which will worsen his navicular.
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I agree.

Is that a 'jumpers bump/hump' in some of the pics? I'm wondering if he stands camped under a lot? ie. back feet forward and front feet back? I'm thinking along the lines of posture and way of going affecting muscle use and therefore development/wasting, perhaps related to the navicular, gut or dietary issues. Just a thought.

Contrary to popular belief my tb has done well on a sugar/starch restricted diet as opposed to adding more. I believe it has helped her digestion/gut.
 
have you tried feed balances. I am a big fan for all our horses, from a fat little wesh b. to a scabby thoughbred ex race horse. they don't do a lot of work in winter but all hold good condition, we used to feed top spec but have now found HORSE AND PONY DIRECT. this feed is amazing at half the price of designer feeds!! my 19 year old is looking fab. they get ad lib haylage. 2 x 200 ml of feed balancer and a scoop of non branded mix, feed bill halved, good lucky orbit to say I only feed hard feed once a day
 
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Amandap - good point.
Might be worth getting vet to check for underlying problem, mine has just been diagnosed with minor sacroiliac problem which has knock-on effect with muscle use/wastage.
Hence the pessoa work, and he is on danilon before and after riding to ease discomfort and allow him to work through properly.
 
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