Protests today / police horses

[Wishfilly]

It is possible to be appalled by the treatment of minority groups by the police and also be appalled at the assertion that all police officers are violent racists. It is not an either or matter

I agree that this is true- and I don't think that all police officers are violent racists.

However, I do think there's an argument to be made that the metropolitan police force specifically were an institutionally racist organisation for a long time, and potentially still are.

Sources: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47300343 https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...lly-racist-racism-black-officer-a9001176.html

That doesn't mean every individual who works for them is racist- but it does mean that there are huge structural problems within that particular police force which they have struggled to tackle for 30 years.

 

[angrybird1]

It's not just about George Floyd though is it?

No I understand that completely. He appears to have been a catalyst though.
I don't understand why the protests were allowed to go ahead at the moment. There is no doubt in my mind now that there will be a second spike in infections.
all it would take was one person in that crowd to have the virus .
With all the shouting, running and close proximity it will spread like wild fire.

 

[scats]

I have a pretty low opinion of the human race at the best of times, but the footage from London yesterday... I don’t even know where to start.

 

[Abi90]

I agree that this is true- and I don't think that all police officers are violent racists.

However, I do think there's an argument to be made that the metropolitan police force specifically were an institutionally racist organisation for a long time, and potentially still are.

Sources: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47300343 https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...lly-racist-racism-black-officer-a9001176.html

That doesn't mean every individual who works for them is racist- but it does mean that there are huge structural problems within that particular police force which they have struggled to tackle for 30 years.

You’re right but I do feel for the individuals that are being targeted here. That just went to work to do their job. Blanket labelling any group is part of the problem.

I also feel for anyone who has suffered racism or been disadvantaged because of it. My point is that it is possible to be appalled by both situations. Two wrongs don’t make a right

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Everything about that video of the mounted police charging

I didn't see any 'charging' they kept up a steady walk just to push people back. I don't know what provoked the chestnut horse into taking off, someone presumably did something but the result is horrifying, that poor policewoman and the woman who was knocked over. If the crowd was being totally peaceful it may well be that the horses wouldn't have been deployed.

 

[sherry90]

I hope someone comes forward to rehome the police horse. He/she (can’t tell if mare or gelding) didn’t apply for the job, merely got selected, and has shown yesterday, they are not machines. I doubt it will serve in the police force again.
I hope he/she goes on to live a more relaxed way of life in a new career.

 

[sherry90]

It's a real shame that the large protests that went ahead peacefully in Birmingham and Manchester aren't getting the same kind of coverage as this one incident. In Birmingham, I think something like 4000 people went to the demo, and there were NO arrests.

In London, I don't think either side covered themselves in glory, yesterday- Everything about that video of the mounted police charging is uncomfortable to watch, and I do think there is a conversation to be had about whether it is fair to put horses in those positions.

I think it's really sad that might be the only experience some of those people have had with horses.

They started walking to push the crowds. It got out of hand when bikes and other objects were used as missiles thrown at the horses. I wouldn’t have called it charging deliberately.

 

[ester]

I didn't see any 'charging' they kept up a steady walk just to push people back. I don't know what provoked the chestnut horse into taking off, someone presumably did something but the result is horrifying, that poor policewoman and the woman who was knocked over. If the crowd was being totally peaceful it may well be that the horses wouldn't have been deployed.

In the video I posted they are fast trot/cantering up the road.
You can't see the chestnut in the frame until he rushes through the rest so it looks like he might have got a bit separated from the rest.

 

[ester]

Having seen the longer video/from the opposite angle the horse is buggering off well before the collision. Glad they are both ok

https://twitter.com/x/status/1269323625720668160

quoted for ease for those that missed it.

 

[honetpot]

What are your suggestions for controlling violent protests ? Would you prefer tanks, water cannons or tear gas or should we allow the police and innocent bystanders to be attacked and buildings and cars destroyed.
I'm genuinely interested to hear any ideas for either dealing with mobs or should we allow them to run amok and let the tax payer pick up pieces afterwards ?

I am sure its not beyond the intelligence of man to devise a small mobile moterised transport that would protect the officer and have multiple purposes.
I love police horses, as a child apart from the horse pulling the rag's man cart it was the only time I saw a horse. I just think they are just no longer appropriate for crowd control. After their use in the miners strike they are associated with aggression, the world has changed. There is a big difference between the police horse patrolling towns, and perhaps doing a bit of a PR job and being able to getting where no car can, and crowd control.
Once you put any extra protection on an officer you make them a symbol of authority, they have to be safe but you have to be aware of what impression that gives, a lot of peoples experience of the police is not positive. There is a video of BAME person being stopped in our local town, basically because he was the wrong colour and the PO had not seen him before, the only difference between him and the videos of US stops is that he questioned the PO why? In the US they just put up with it for fear of being arrested or worse end up being shot.
I worked with someone who became a police women, and what can I say, she just wanted to boss people about and being a nurse did not give her the too much opportunity.

 

[PapaverFollis]

George Floyd's death was the catalyst but is not the cause. We still have huge problems with structural racism in this country. We have huge problems full bloody stop too. The protests are happening for a reason. It's a shame things got heated and there were horses involved. It's a shame there's a pandemic happening too but that's probably part of the catalyst as well.

It really is time to start listening. But we/they won't.

I can't see a way out though. Things will happen maybe but will anything really change? No doubt the status quo will be restored in due course and we can all go back to destroying the planet.

 

[Wishfilly]

They started walking to push the crowds. It got out of hand when bikes and other objects were used as missiles thrown at the horses. I wouldn’t have called it charging deliberately.

Have a look at the video Esther has shared- it is absolutely a deliberate charge. I have watched a lot of the footage on twitter- from what I've seen, no-one was throwing anything at the horses until they started trotting/cantering down the street. The Chestnut looks out of control from the moment he comes into shot.

The bike was thrown after the officer had fallen off. I don't condone it, but also I think things were out of hand by that stage already.

In the video I posted they are fast trot/cantering up the road.
You can't see the chestnut in the frame until he rushes through the rest so it looks like he might have got a bit separated from the rest.

I agree with this.

 

[dogatemysalad]

The videos that I have seen show the group of horses standing in a group as missiles are thrown at them. The first bike hits the dark bay and a second bike is thrown and the chestnut is standing on the bike before it takes off and throws the rider as the crowd cheers.,
The video makes my blood run cold. The brutes who attacked the horses and cheered are also responsible for the member of the public who was then knocked over.
Apart from the issue of this illegal mass gathering during a pandemic, which may result in more deaths, do these thugs really think they are making our country a better place ?
If they hate the police so much, what do they want - anarchy and no protection for law abiding citizens and the most vulnerable?

 

[Wishfilly]

You’re right but I do feel for the individuals that are being targeted here. That just went to work to do their job. Blanket labelling any group is part of the problem.
I also feel for anyone who has suffered racism or been disadvantaged because of it. My point is that it is possible to be appalled by both situations. Two wrongs don’t make a right

I'm slightly confused by what you mean by "the individuals that have been targeted here". I think when talking about organisations like the police, sometimes we do have to lump them together- and I don't think we can compare generalisations about people who do a job (which is a choice) and generalisations made about people because of their race.

I didn't see any 'charging' they kept up a steady walk just to push people back. I don't know what provoked the chestnut horse into taking off, someone presumably did something but the result is horrifying, that poor policewoman and the woman who was knocked over. If the crowd was being totally peaceful it may well be that the horses wouldn't have been deployed.

They started walking to push the crowds. It got out of hand when bikes and other objects were used as missiles thrown at the horses. I wouldn’t have called it charging deliberately.

You need to watch the video that esther shared further up the thread. They were not at a walk.

 

[ester]

It would be helpful if people could share the other videos they are watching if they start before the one I posted please.

 

[Wishfilly]

The videos that I have seen show the group of horses standing in a group as missiles are thrown at them. The first bike hits the dark bay and a second bike is thrown and the chestnut is standing on the bike before it takes off and throws the rider as the crowd cheers.,
The video makes my blood run cold. The brutes who attacked the horses and cheered are also responsible for the member of the public who was then knocked over.
Apart from the issue of this illegal mass gathering during a pandemic, which may result in more deaths, do these thugs really think they are making our country a better place ?
If they hate the police so much, what do they want - anarchy and no protection for law abiding citizens and the most vulnerable?

Could you share the video?

Because most of the videos I've seen look like this one:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1269337726408630273

(maybe watch with sound off because there's quite a bit of swearing).

You can see the bike being thrown at the bay at the end of the video, after the officer has already fallen off. Obviously that was a disgusting thing to do, but it was one person, and I don't think it's fair to tar everyone with the same brush.

If you string this video together with the other one posted on the thread, you can see the chestnut travelled through a crowded place at high speed for a long period of time.

Legally, the rider is presumably responsible for the horse- like any other professional rider?

 

[Pinkvboots]

Actually I’m not sure they are being allowed. They are simply going ahead....

Yeah true but then something should be done to stop it it's not even a peaceful safe environment, get the army in and arrest the lot of them if need be.

 

[southerncomfort]

Yeah true but then something should be done to stop it it's not even a peaceful safe environment, get the army in and arrest the lot of them if need be.

I think that would pretty much lead to a whole summer of rioting.

Also, the idea of ordering the armed forces to act against their own citizens. ?? No civilised society does that.

 

[ester]

And where do you put them then?

 

[AmyMay]

Yeah true but then something should be done to stop it it's not even a peaceful safe environment, get the army in and arrest the lot of them if need be.

And risk a full scale riot?

 

[dogatemysalad]

Could you share the video?

Because most of the videos I've seen look like this one:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1269337726408630273

(maybe watch with sound off because there's quite a bit of swearing).

You can see the bike being thrown at the bay at the end of the video, after the officer has already fallen off. Obviously that was a disgusting thing to do, but it was one person, and I don't think it's fair to tar everyone with the same brush.

If you string this video together with the other one posted on the thread, you can see the chestnut travelled through a crowded place at high speed for a long period of time.

Legally, the rider is presumably responsible for the horse- like any other professional rider?

This video has been taken after the two bikes were thrown and the charging horse is actually fleeing from the attack. The female rider then falls on the road at speed.
Are you seriously suggesting that the victims ( the horse and rider ) are responsible for this and not the thugs who attacked them or the baying crowd that cheered and whistled ?
We're in a very dangerous place when political extremism tries to justify the indefensible.

 

[Abi90]

Yeah true but then something should be done to stop it it's not even a peaceful safe environment, get the army in and arrest the lot of them if need be.

It is absolutely not the Army’s job to get involved here. It is the Police’s job to maintain public order. Other than in Northern Ireland in the troubles the Army have never been used for Public Order in the UK.

The Army can’t arrest anyone, the RMP only have the power to arrest service personnel. The Army are not the experts in public order that the police are. What are the Army going to bring to the table? It’s not weapons because they won’t use them. Their presence would be escalatory and the point of public order is to restore it not make it worse.

I keep seeing “bring in the army” but the army have less power than the police in this situation

 

[ester]

I think that would pretty much lead to a whole summer of rioting.

Also, the idea of ordering the armed forces to act against their own citizens. ?? No civilised society does that.

Have you seen the video of the black soldier in the US quietly joining in the I'm black and proud chant. (he looks like he is trying not to and failing, what a position to be put in :/)

 

[ester]

DAS do you have those videos please?

 

[Abi90]

I think that would pretty much lead to a whole summer of rioting.

Also, the idea of ordering the armed forces to act against their own citizens. ?? No civilised society does that.

The Armed Forces simply would not do it. The only thing extra that they bring is lethal force, which is not appropriate for dealing with the minority of troublemakers involved a wider, peaceful protest

 

[Goldenstar]

I hope someone comes forward to rehome the police horse. He/she (can’t tell if mare or gelding) didn’t apply for the job, merely got selected, and has shown yesterday, they are not machines. I doubt it will serve in the police force again.
I hope he/she goes on to live a more relaxed way of life in a new career.

I would have him he would like it here .

 

[PapaverFollis]

In terms of Covid these protests and the stupidity at Durdle Door are probably as bad as each other. At least the protests have a good reason. Plus all the other touristy idiocy that was happening last weekend. Friends in the Lakes reported the Lakes were "packed" again.

Where's the footage and reporting from the peaceful, well managed protests? Is this incident with the horse they only clash from the whole day across all the protests? If so I'd hardly be calling it a riot.

 

[Wishfilly]

This video has been taken after the two bikes were thrown and the charging horse is actually fleeing from the attack. The female rider then falls on the road at speed.
Are you seriously suggesting that the victims ( the horse and rider ) are responsible for this and not the thugs who attacked them or the baying crowd that cheered and whistled ?
We're in a very dangerous place when political extremism tries to justify the indefensible.

Can you please share some of the evidence you've seen? I've spent a lot of time looking at videos on twitter and I've only seen the one bike thrown at a horse. I haven't seen anything showing the very start of the police trotting/cantering and I would be really interested. I am genuinely willing to reconsider my position in face of evidence.

I don't think they are morally culpable but my understanding of the law is that if you're "in charge" of a horse in a public place you are the one liable for its behaviour and any injury/damage caused under pretty much all circumstances- but I don't know if that extends to police horses or not.

 

[Pinkvboots]

This video has been taken after the two bikes were thrown and the charging horse is actually fleeing from the attack. The female rider then falls on the road at speed.
Are you seriously suggesting that the victims ( the horse and rider ) are responsible for this and not the thugs who attacked them or the baying crowd that cheered and whistled ?
We're in a very dangerous place when political extremism tries to justify the indefensible.

I do know the army can't arrest people but the police don't seem to be handling it so the help maybe what is needed, the police can still be there and arrest where necessary, I just think it's an absolute joke we are still meant to be on lockdown yet they are allowing this to happen it shows how weak this country is.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I don't know why my post quoted your post DAMS it was meant to quote Abi90 lol don't know what happened there never mind

 

[Goldenstar]

I did not see people screaming into the faces of police in the pictures at the beach
Thats what we are told is the easiest way for Covid to be spread talking at close quarters .
I am surprised that people think that there is any justification for doing that .