Protests today / police horses

[planete]

What are your suggestions for controlling violent protests ? Would you prefer tanks, water cannons or tear gas or should we allow the police and innocent bystanders to be attacked and buildings and cars destroyed.
I'm genuinely interested to hear any ideas for either dealing with mobs or should we allow them to run amok and let the tax payer pick up pieces afterwards ?

If human beings want to fight each other, so be it, but keep the animals out of it. If you say the horses are the best way, you are saying the end justifies the means, so too bad for the horses. Other countries manage without endangering innocent animals.

 

[Goldenstar]

I do know the army can't arrest people but the police don't seem to be handling it so the help maybe what is needed, the police can still be there and arrest where necessary, I just think it's an absolute joke we are still meant to be on lockdown yet they are allowing this to happen it shows how weak this country is.

I thought the police where behaving with extreme forbearance in face of provocation and considerable danger of infection with Covid and physical harm .
Police who do not over react when faced with a angry crowd is a indication of strength not weakness .

 

[Wishfilly]

I did not see people screaming into the faces of police in the pictures at the beach
Thats what we are told is the easiest way for Covid to be spread talking at close quarters .
I am surprised that people think that there is any justification for doing that .

At various beaches there have been people tombstoning, and also getting into a lot of trouble in the water. If they end up needing mouth to mouth, that is presumably putting people at risk- members of the public have also put themselves at risk to rescue others from drowning. Obviously that is not everyone who's been to a beach recently, but I think both groups had an irresponsible minority.

 

[HashRouge]

I did not see people screaming into the faces of police in the pictures at the beach
Thats what we are told is the easiest way for Covid to be spread talking at close quarters .
I am surprised that people think that there is any justification for doing that .

I don't think anybody is trying to justify violent protest. But there were protests across the UK yesterday and the only sign of any violence that I've seen was this incident in London (do please share if you have seen evidence of violence elsewhere). So I think we need to be careful about tarring all protesters with the same brush, as the vast majority protested peacefully and there is very, very good reason for them to be protesting. My sister is currently at a Black Lives Matter protest in Nottingham and she's sent some photos/ videos that show a) it is completely peaceful and b) everyone is wearing a face mask.

 

[Goldenstar]

That mounted officer who fell is quite badly hurt .
It’s was a very nasty fall .

 

[Goldenstar]

I don't think anybody is trying to justify violent protest. But there were protests across the UK yesterday and the only sign of any violence that I've seen was this incident in London (do please share if you have seen evidence of violence elsewhere). So I think we need to be careful about tarring all protesters with the same brush, as the vast majority protested peacefully and there is very, very good reason for them to be protesting. My sister is currently at a Black Lives Matter protest in Nottingham and she's sent some photos/ videos that show a) it is completely peaceful and b) everyone is wearing a face mask.

And illegal ,now People have the right to break the law but your sister is breaking the law .

 

[Cinnamontoast]

The army isn’t the answer, much like in America, the idea has been mooted but yes, it would cause absolute bloody chaos. There are not enough police to deal with the 100s of 1000s of protesters. Arresting crazy amounts-where you going to put them? My OH works in an area near a big town. Both big and small towns have lost their custody suites recently, so he has to convey to another big town 20 minutes away. If the custody there is full (frequent on a Friday night), then he has to go to the next custody suite 40 minutes away. It’s insane.

 

[Goldenstar]

Of course the Army is not the answer people are angry and meeting that with the army would be disproportionate in the extreme .

 

[JFTDWS]

I do have some experience of these situations, both with the training and the experience of being personally in similar situations. But, am somewhat stressed about other matters at the moment, and it is an emotional topic, especially considering some of the comments on here, so I can't really answer questions or comment on people thinking the Police are being thugs. It is too much for me right now. I am not intending to engage in argument.

I can say that people generally think that there are a lot more Police Officers available than is the reality.

I can say that sometimes situations overwhelm the available Officers. We are people too. Our guts clench.

I can say that sometimes action is a matter of life and death. No joke. Not that the Police would be dangerous if left to room the streets on their own. LOL.

I can say that sometimes people need directing away from danger, other groups, certain areas. A horse can indeed do the work of 10 Officers in that situation. With less risk to Officers too.

I also would like to point out that these are the same horses and Officers who visit schools, fetes etc as a public relations exercise. I have been in a similar (but smaller scale) experience where people were trying to pull foot officers into he thick of a crowd to kick them in, and I have had to go barge, charge, do whatever I could to 'rescue' those Officers. The thugs (not the Police) were punching my horse and trying to rip the bridle off. I was spinning, hitting, doing what I had to, to keep myself, my horse, my colleagues, the public and yes, even the thugs safe. It is what we do. Keep people safe. We drove the violent thugs (not Police Officers) away from the danger area and to a clear space. At the end of the street I was adrenalised, breathless, exhausted and...

A little girl was sitting on dad's (I presume) shoulders. They stopped me and asked if she could stroke the horse. I hadn't realised the tension in my chest, the tension in my jaw, in my lips over my teeth, in my shoulders and hands. I had to mentally shake and consciously rearrange my face. Form a smile. Say yes, of course.

The horse had a stroke. He let go some tension too. We had Polos. It was...nice.

Same horse and rider. Same uniform. Same street, same day, 5 minutes apart.

I guess they are only intimidatory if you are dong something wrong? Of if you don't like them, stay away?

As to the training, yes they are trained. But, I'm not sure you can train any horse to accept pain and stand still. Yes, the horse launched forwards. I have seen some photos where it looked like a bike was also launched at that horse, as well as the darker one.

I feel for the rider. She is in hospital, not life threatening. I don't suppose she will be back doing anything physical any time soon still. I feel for all of the horses. They aren's pets. There to do a job.

I think the people who put their lives at risk to protect the public are pretty incredible - the emergency services at Durdle Door, the NHS staff on the frontline, the police force who have to face down unbelievable thuggery to control the violent minority and protect the peaceful majority. I can't imagine what it takes to knowingly put yourselves in danger, especially to ride an animal into these situations, which may not be a pet, but to which you're bound to develop an emotional attachment. I don't believe it's ever easy, and I don't believe these decisions are taken lightly.

I understand why people are protesting. We live in a pretty screwed up world. None of this is fixing it, though. We need a better way forward.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Some pics from the Daily Mail. They clearly show that Boris bikes were propelled at the horses. One horse (not the one that bolted) ended up with one under its feet.

It also shows the police officer who fell as she impacted with the ground, she was one of 14 officers injured yesterday.

 

[ester]

Interesting they were Boris bikes, I did wonder why people were happy to trash bikes.

 

[honetpot]

And illegal ,now People have the right to break the law but your sister is breaking the law .

I do not think she is breaking the law, and if she was it was it would be pretty difficult to enforce. I was taking my daily exercise, my instinct told me that this was more important than staying at home. Well it alright to go to the beach or to the park.
And that is the problem, you have to lead by example, and guidance has to be applied equally to everyone and the government have lost that tool.

 

[HashRouge]

And illegal ,now People have the right to break the law but your sister is breaking the law .

And? I'm not sure what your point is. So are a great many other people. As far as I'm aware, no-one has been arrested just for attending a demonstration.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Interesting they were Boris bikes, I did wonder why people were happy to trash bikes.

£2 for half an hour‘s hire, and only a max of £300 if you damage or fail to return one.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I’m just sick of the world right now. 2020 really is a shit storm.

Couldn’t agree more

 

[Goldenstar]

And? I'm not sure what your point is. So are a great many other people. As far as I'm aware, no-one has been arrested just for attending a demonstration.

It’s still illegal .

 

[MiniMilton]

That mounted officer who fell is quite badly hurt .
It’s was a very nasty fall .

Some of the video angles of the fall shown on twitter are actually disturbing to watch. The impact with the traffic light was enough to cause multiple injuries, let alone the subsequent fall. A really terrible incident.

 

[HashRouge]

It’s still illegal .

Yes, so you said. But I'm not sure what your point is? Do you want me to say that she's doing the wrong thing? Because I don't think she is.

 

[Wishfilly]

And? I'm not sure what your point is. So are a great many other people. As far as I'm aware, no-one has been arrested just for attending a demonstration.

In NI yesterday, the police were issuing fines to a lot of attendees under Covid-19 legislation.

But I don't think they have done that anywhere within GB. Partly because standing in a park 2m apart from everyone else is perfectly legal.

 

[Ouch05]

I do have some experience of these situations, both with the training and the experience of being personally in similar situations. But, am somewhat stressed about other matters at the moment, and it is an emotional topic, especially considering some of the comments on here, so I can't really answer questions or comment on people thinking the Police are being thugs. It is too much for me right now. I am not intending to engage in argument.

I can say that people generally think that there are a lot more Police Officers available than is the reality.

I can say that sometimes situations overwhelm the available Officers. We are people too. Our guts clench.

I can say that sometimes action is a matter of life and death. No joke. Not that the Police would be dangerous if left to room the streets on their own. LOL.

I can say that sometimes people need directing away from danger, other groups, certain areas. A horse can indeed do the work of 10 Officers in that situation. With less risk to Officers too.

I also would like to point out that these are the same horses and Officers who visit schools, fetes etc as a public relations exercise. I have been in a similar (but smaller scale) experience where people were trying to pull foot officers into he thick of a crowd to kick them in, and I have had to go barge, charge, do whatever I could to 'rescue' those Officers. The thugs (not the Police) were punching my horse and trying to rip the bridle off. I was spinning, hitting, doing what I had to, to keep myself, my horse, my colleagues, the public and yes, even the thugs safe. It is what we do. Keep people safe. We drove the violent thugs (not Police Officers) away from the danger area and to a clear space. At the end of the street I was adrenalised, breathless, exhausted and...

A little girl was sitting on dad's (I presume) shoulders. They stopped me and asked if she could stroke the horse. I hadn't realised the tension in my chest, the tension in my jaw, in my lips over my teeth, in my shoulders and hands. I had to mentally shake and consciously rearrange my face. Form a smile. Say yes, of course.

The horse had a stroke. He let go some tension too. We had Polos. It was...nice.

Same horse and rider. Same uniform. Same street, same day, 5 minutes apart.

I guess they are only intimidatory if you are dong something wrong? Of if you don't like them, stay away?

As to the training, yes they are trained. But, I'm not sure you can train any horse to accept pain and stand still. Yes, the horse launched forwards. I have seen some photos where it looked like a bike was also launched at that horse, as well as the darker one.

I feel for the rider. She is in hospital, not life threatening. I don't suppose she will be back doing anything physical any time soon still. I feel for all of the horses. They aren's pets. There to do a job.

I think people don’t read what other posters have written but skip to the bottom to add their comments.

I like to read all before I do and this kicked my in the gut.

What others have also missed a part from someone else commenting is the reason they were called in

For those that did read the full story as told by the mounted police they were called in as unarmed not in riot gear police outside west minister where getting attached by bottled snd brick the horses where sent in as the quickest and safest way to move the riots on to allow these police to get to safety and the riot police in place.

They did their job.

 

[milliepops]

I don't think anybody is trying to justify violent protest. But there were protests across the UK yesterday and the only sign of any violence that I've seen was this incident in London (do please share if you have seen evidence of violence elsewhere). So I think we need to be careful about tarring all protesters with the same brush, as the vast majority protested peacefully and there is very, very good reason for them to be protesting. My sister is currently at a Black Lives Matter protest in Nottingham and she's sent some photos/ videos that show a) it is completely peaceful and b) everyone is wearing a face mask.

completely agree with this. I simply can't stand my social media feed at the moment because so many people are equating a small number of people acting in a reprehensible way with an entire movement and I'm starting to lose the will to live. There was a fairly busy, peaceful, fully masked protest in a local town that was put on FB live yesterday, all abiding by social distancing etc. SO many comments on the post were "what about London" .... London is 180 miles away. How about "what a well organised sensible demonstration"?

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s my understanding that attending a gathering of more than six people is unlawful even if social distancing is observed .

 

[honetpot]

It’s still illegal .

I am not sure its law,
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/staying-alert-and-safe-social-distancing
Oops it does have a link to the law further down the page.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350
Test and trace the 14 days self isolation, it was mentioned they may enforce with fines if people do not comply.

 

[MyBoyChe]

Several things come to my mind, so in no particular order
Given how wet and slippy the road looked Im amazed more horses didnt come down, Im sure they are well shod and studded but even so, cantering on tarmac is not for the fainthearted
I hate seeing horses put in this situation
If black lives matter, why were so many being out at risk yesterday, from Covid? I keep seeing people popping up on the Government briefings asking why more isnt being done to find out why the BAME population are seemingly more susceptible. Nothing like making the NHS feel they have completely been wasting their time!!

And before anyone accuses me of being racist, all lives matter, colour doesnt matter. Im not sure what the answer is but behaviour like we saw yesterday definitely isnt the answer. Now is not the time to be involved in huge social gatherings, be they peaceful or not. Aside from breaking every social distancing rule going, its just not going to put this in a positive light.

 

[Lammy]

Having seen the longer video/from the opposite angle the horse is buggering off well before the collision. Glad they are both ok

https://twitter.com/x/status/1269323625720668160

I think people keep missing this post by Ester? The mounted section did charge towards the group of protesters and the chestnut horse was already out of control. They then reach a group and that is when objects start flying. I’m not saying the bike and missile throwing was a reprehensible action but charging a group of horses at people would escalate any situation.

 

[cobgoblin]

I think people keep missing this post by Ester? The mounted section did charge towards the group of protesters and the chestnut horse was already out of control. They then reach a group and that is when objects start flying. I’m not saying the bike and missile throwing was a reprehensible action but charging a group of horses at people would escalate any situation.

According to eye witnesses the horse had glass bottles and flares thrown at it, spooked and took off, then rider hit traffic lights and fell off.. At which point some protesters can be seen celebrating.
.

 

[ester]

The other horses weren't taking off though, they were trotting/cantering down the road in a controlled manner.

It really would be helpful to see some of the other videos people keep talking about describing what happened before this.

 

[Moobli]

We have stopped using horses in war, we should also stop using them in any potentially violent situations. It is quite simply unfair on the horses. I know it is a lovely tradition in this country but it is out off step with duty of care to animals as it is accepted nowadays.

Do you feel the same about police dogs? Just interested.

 

[dogatemysalad]

I think people keep missing this post by Ester? The mounted section did charge towards the group of protesters and the chestnut horse was already out of control. They then reach a group and that is when objects start flying. I’m not saying the bike and missile throwing was a reprehensible action but charging a group of horses at people would escalate any situation.

Wrong. That video was taken after the horses were attacked. When missiles and two bikes were thrown at them, the horses were standing still.
It seems strange that the posters asking to see the initial videos can't see the ones posted on main stream national new sites, but can find the videos taken after the attack on Twitter, which incorrectly label the riders charging at protestors.
I can't post links from my tablet, but the videos are widely shared on new sites.

 

[Moobli]

Some of the video angles of the fall shown on twitter are actually disturbing to watch. The impact with the traffic light was enough to cause multiple injuries, let alone the subsequent fall. A really terrible incident.

It was really upsetting to watch. She apparently suffered a broken collarbone, shattered ribs and a collapsed lung. I hope she makes a full and speedy recovery both mentally and physically.