Dressage PSG done!

[milliepops]

hahahaha if you actually owned Kira you might have a different viewpoint on that one

I think the changes are the sticking point for many people and horses, it's definitely what did for Millie and was a bit of a threshold. by the time she had a good change each way her doddery old legs were failing her. If you can get as far as AM without too much difficulty then it's not *too* far to PSG (and from confidence at PSG it's not a great leap to I1 - the tests are relentless in difficulty but in terms of learning/perfecting new movements it's starting to feel fairly familiar)

.... and then it feels like starting all over again

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Haha yes I definitely have pink tinted glasses when seeing Kira!

Definitely agree about the timing of it all, I think Topaz could have gone all the way if I'd come to dressage earlier, but then she was a bit a crazy when she was younger so who knows...

I still think my biggest jump in levels was still elementary to medium (think it was the shock of sitting trot lol), upwards from there has seemed natural (if I could just learn to count and ride the canter at the same time!), but then I have a horse who does find the cadence and pirouettes quite natural.

I cannot wait to see you guys out at Inter II , you can do it!

 

[milliepops]

definitely makes a difference depending on what their strengths are.
Kira doesn't have a talent for extension so getting away from levels where proportionately that is a good score-earner has helped us.
She finds the pelvis-tucking bit of sitting quite easy but because she's only hot in a ridiculous way rather than a work-ethic way it's hard to capitalise on that talent!
We will keep on trucking but I do think it might take as long to make the next step as the previous ones have taken all together Topaz has the hotness that we could do with! (see rose tinted specs work both ways )

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Yes Topaz we can capitalize on the hotness and sitting to work for our benefit, though stopping the levade as we only wanted piaffe was fun . Her work ethic is fabulous, her scatty brain is the trouble and we're at the stage where she must be in self-carriage and not using me to hand hold her through every step, but she IS learning to be braver .

Do you think it's the time it takes to build strength that means the next level takes longer, or just the more advanced movements needing more time to teach and finesse? Sorry just being nosy .

 

[milliepops]

haha been in the levade/piaffe situation too

With Kira (case study of 1 ) I think it's partly strength, partly irritating details around contact and straightness etc (which are pretty good but could get away with small problems before), partly learning how to notice those details - be yet more critical, yet more demanding, yet more precise... a lot of re-learning how to do better test riding to make it less frantic (feel like a beginner again)
um, making her more sensitive and reactive (again), some basic technique stuff - learning 1 tempis was a brainmangling nightmare, she can do it but I'm not always quick enough because you have to give the next change aid before you've done the last one, and then if I have any doubt she pretends she didn't hear me
fitness & submission both need to go up a level or 2... the list is endless (trying to stay positive!!)

we managed to get round quite a few PSGs still winging it.... can't wing it any more :sad:

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Ah ok yes that makes sense for it to be more critical of the details and strength, I 'love' that just as you think you have it sussed a new move unravels it all again . It was also a revelation just how difficult tempi's are, they look so bloody easy when the pro's do it! I cannot imagine we'll ever get to 1's .

Actually, that's a good point about fitness in general, I really think our new hills have been just as instrumental in Topaz's new found clean right change as all the training we've been doing! Not specific strength training just fitness in straight lines.

Glad we can wing it still, we might just stay at PSG .

 

[milliepops]

to add, the result of all the above is that we are not doing a lot of fun work at the moment, but lots and lots of good corners, transitions, engagement, transitions off the track work, transitions, straightness, throughness, transitions (lol) patient boring stuff that we just have to do I always thought I was doing plenty of that but turns out there's a whole load more that needs doing!

Anyway, I will slink away to my depressing corner for now! daffy once told me something like the work to get from PSG to GP is about the same amount as the work from Prelim to PSG so have to just keep on going! feels like a mountain to climb.

congrats on the PSG, first one out of the way and must be exciting to plan for a BD outing now

 

[HufflyPuffly]

MP it is exciting, just think of where you are heading towards!
I can send you a bonkers cart horse to spice it up for you if you want some variety , I do have a spare one that seems to be back on board with being ridden again!

Still being wimpy on the BD front... Lots of sequence changes are in our future lol, once we have them more polite I, erm, will book it in *gulp* .

 

[Roxylola]

MP is definitely an inspiration! I tell Topaz to be more Kira a lot lol, but yes I think any horse can do dressage with the right training.

How far they go might differ but I really think most 'could' get to Adavanced/PSG as the lateral work can be trained and once you've mastered changes (or not in my case lol), then sequence changes can be taught.

I've always maintained that any basically sound and sane horse ought to be able to do a medium test, the bits above that look complicated though

Anyway, I will slink away to my depressing corner for now! daffy once told me something like the work to get from PSG to GP is about the same amount as the work from Prelim to PSG so have to just keep on going! feels like a mountain to climb.

But, if you've got from Prelim to PSG then it's only like doing the same again to get from PSG to GP in that case

ETA - Congratulations on the PSG (forgot about that bit) what a fabulous achievement

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I've always maintained that any basically sound and sane horse ought to be able to do a medium test, the bits above that look complicated though

But, if you've got from Prelim to PSG then it's only like doing the same again to get from PSG to GP in that case

ETA - Congratulations on the PSG (forgot about that bit) what a fabulous achievement

Haha thank you, MP can continue to trial-blaze for us

 

[milliepops]

*applies nose to grindstone*

😂

 

[daffy44]

Hi, firstly, very well done on your first psg! Its a big achievement, enjoy it x

I dont come on here very often anymore, but a friend of mine has read this thread and told me to comment, so I can offer my own experiences if that helps?

I did tell MP that when you have got to PSG you are in reality about halfway to GP, despite what it feels like at the time. The late, great Herbert Rehbein (the trainer of Donnerhall amongst many others), said that between PSG and GP are the Himalayas, so MP you are right, there is a mountain(s) to climb!

If you assume that the rider knows what they are doing, and that the horse has all its basics solidly in place, two big assumptions I know! But given those two things the horse still needs time to learn the GP work and develop the strength and confidence to be able to perform it in a test. If we take the piaffe and passage as an example, the horse has to learn both, and depending on the horses natural strengths and weaknesses one will be easier than the other, so we have to try our best to make both happen as best as possible. Next is the transitions, because the piaffe and passage require different things from the horse making the transitions between the two is difficult, even at International GP you will see horses having to do the odd shuffle and hop rather than making the ideal fluent transitions between the two. So you have to train the transitions, and then also the transitions we dont think about as much, the walk to passage, the passage to canter as well as the trot to and from the passage and the piaffe passage transitions themselves. So another thing to train, and then time to develop the strength and confidence to be able to do it all in the competition arena, on the riders aids and in the balance, frame and level of engagement required from a GP horse, and thats only a pretty small part of the test!

So thats why it takes a long time, and why the gulf from PSG to GP is so big, and why horses dont always make it.

I totally understand how frustrating it feels in training when it seems like the goalposts are constantly moving, on the first horse I trained to GP it drove me mad, so enraging! But now I actually quite like it, because it means we are ready for the next stage, so I see as a confirmation of progress, which feels so positive.

 

[oldie48]

I somehow missed this post and just wanted to say, well done. I love to follow yours and MPs posts as they are inspiring. I've read through this post and felt the excitement and sense of achievement that you feel and so you should! Amateur riders riding horses that were bred to do a completely different jobs out there doing really difficult stuff (you can tell that I have excellent dressage credentials) A real credit to you. Enjoy every moment. Unlike professional riders, you don't have another one (or several) waiting in the wings. You don't have every day of every week to train, you fit riding around doing the stuff that pays the bills. Fantastic and to achieve the level that you have gives us all hope (well the younger H&Hs!)

 

[milliepops]

I did tell MP that when you have got to PSG you are in reality about halfway to GP, despite what it feels like at the time. The late, great Herbert Rehbein (the trainer of Donnerhall amongst many others), said that between PSG and GP are the Himalayas, so MP you are right, there is a mountain(s) to climb!

There's a mountain near where I live, which is approached via a steep climb up through woodland where you have no view other than the trees around you, then you go up a rocky bit and out onto the exposed mountain top... and you feel like - hurrah! I'm nearly at the top. Then you go a little further,over a hump and then into view, there's still this big peak to climb. That's what this feels like

 

[Remi'sMum]

A very inspirational thread for a rider bumbling along at novice but with **secret** aspirations to go further... massive well done!!

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Hi, firstly, very well done on your first psg! Its a big achievement, enjoy it x

I dont come on here very often anymore, but a friend of mine has read this thread and told me to comment, so I can offer my own experiences if that helps?

I did tell MP that when you have got to PSG you are in reality about halfway to GP, despite what it feels like at the time. The late, great Herbert Rehbein (the trainer of Donnerhall amongst many others), said that between PSG and GP are the Himalayas, so MP you are right, there is a mountain(s) to climb!

If you assume that the rider knows what they are doing, and that the horse has all its basics solidly in place, two big assumptions I know! But given those two things the horse still needs time to learn the GP work and develop the strength and confidence to be able to perform it in a test. If we take the piaffe and passage as an example, the horse has to learn both, and depending on the horses natural strengths and weaknesses one will be easier than the other, so we have to try our best to make both happen as best as possible. Next is the transitions, because the piaffe and passage require different things from the horse making the transitions between the two is difficult, even at International GP you will see horses having to do the odd shuffle and hop rather than making the ideal fluent transitions between the two. So you have to train the transitions, and then also the transitions we dont think about as much, the walk to passage, the passage to canter as well as the trot to and from the passage and the piaffe passage transitions themselves. So another thing to train, and then time to develop the strength and confidence to be able to do it all in the competition arena, on the riders aids and in the balance, frame and level of engagement required from a GP horse, and thats only a pretty small part of the test!

So thats why it takes a long time, and why the gulf from PSG to GP is so big, and why horses dont always make it.

I totally understand how frustrating it feels in training when it seems like the goalposts are constantly moving, on the first horse I trained to GP it drove me mad, so enraging! But now I actually quite like it, because it means we are ready for the next stage, so I see as a confirmation of progress, which feels so positive.

Thanks Daffy, really interesting post!
I hadn't thought it would take the same time again as (case study of 1 again lol) we're training various GP stuff now, like the passage and piaffe as they have helped with our extensions, so although not test ready yet they're probably not a million miles away, (Topaz is a funny bunny though and has from the first time of asking given a decent passage to piaffe and out transition , walk to piaffe is harder ). Thank you again, as it's good to hear that it takes a long time for everyone to get there from the PSG level and it wont just be because I'm rubbish if we ever do get there!

I somehow missed this post and just wanted to say, well done. I love to follow yours and MPs posts as they are inspiring. I've read through this post and felt the excitement and sense of achievement that you feel and so you should! Amateur riders riding horses that were bred to do a completely different jobs out there doing really difficult stuff (you can tell that I have excellent dressage credentials) A real credit to you. Enjoy every moment. Unlike professional riders, you don't have another one (or several) waiting in the wings. You don't have every day of every week to train, you fit riding around doing the stuff that pays the bills. Fantastic and to achieve the level that you have gives us all hope (well the younger H&Hs!)

Thanks if we can do it anyone can . It is frustrating when work gets in the way of playing ponies, but I still feel very lucky to even be able to have the horses at all so it drives me on to make the most of them . A thread like this is such a nice reminder of why all the hours, blood, sweat and tears are worth it!

There's a mountain near where I live, which is approached via a steep climb up through woodland where you have no view other than the trees around you, then you go up a rocky bit and out onto the exposed mountain top... and you feel like - hurrah! I'm nearly at the top. Then you go a little further,over a hump and then into view, there's still this big peak to climb. That's what this feels like

Great analogy.
I can be quite hard on myself and make myself a bit crazy with all the stuff I 'should' be doing to achieve our potential and if I don't do xyz then we'll never make it and it's all because I've not tried hard enough/ done enough. Since the move and all the upheaval I've tried to be kinder to myself and allow more 'fun' stuff with slightly less pressure on myself and you know Topaz has actually improved more despite doing 'less' (schooling), so although you have a mountain to climb remember this is suppose to be fun lol.

A very inspirational thread for a rider bumbling along at novice but with **secret** aspirations to go further... massive well done!!

Haha I know all to well about secret aspirations keep going!

 

[daffy44]

Hi Alex, my pleasure. You have made me smile, I think everyone when they first get to PSG thinks that GP is not that far off because they are already doing some GP movements, I know I certainly did. Its normal for the PSG horse to do some piaffe and passage, maybe a couple of one tempis etc, and so we think we are not that far away. Unfortunately the reality of the GP test in its entirety takes so much more time than we first think, if your horse has a natural talent for piaffe passage work and the transitions, thats great and it will certainly help, but as I said in my earlier post, thats just a small bit of the test. Fifteen one tempis on the diagonal, the canter zig zag etc all take some training.
Please be sure I am not saying any of this to put you, or anyone, off, I think these things are all achievable, and I think more people should try to achieve them. But I want to be realisitic, and hopefully stop you from being disheartened when things dont go as quickly as you intitally think they will, it will take time, but that doesnt mean you cant get there. Just remember that every GP rider is where you are now, everyone has to start somewhere, so just keep putting one foot in front of the other.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Hi Alex, my pleasure. You have made me smile, I think everyone when they first get to PSG thinks that GP is not that far off because they are already doing some GP movements, I know I certainly did. Its normal for the PSG horse to do some piaffe and passage, maybe a couple of one tempis etc, and so we think we are not that far away. Unfortunately the reality of the GP test in its entirety takes so much more time than we first think, if your horse has a natural talent for piaffe passage work and the transitions, thats great and it will certainly help, but as I said in my earlier post, thats just a small bit of the test. Fifteen one tempis on the diagonal, the canter zig zag etc all take some training.
Please be sure I am not saying any of this to put you, or anyone, off, I think these things are all achievable, and I think more people should try to achieve them. But I want to be realisitic, and hopefully stop you from being disheartened when things dont go as quickly as you intitally think they will, it will take time, but that doesnt mean you cant get there. Just remember that every GP rider is where you are now, everyone has to start somewhere, so just keep putting one foot in front of the other.

Yeah it’s an eye opener and good to know it won’t just be my bad riding holding us back from quick progression 😂🙈.

 

[milliepops]

Piggybacking on just to say thanks to daffy for sharing your experience as always 🙂 so helpful to those of us scrambling up behind you! KOKO Alex you can't say you're a bad rider having got this far!

 

[daffy44]

Alex its absolutely not your fault! Thats the thing, it takes time for everyone, be patient and dont take it personally! MP, I am always happy to help as much as I can, I understand how hard it can be, and also how lonely at times, I want to encourage anyone who is trying, and I want you to succeed.
Now I'm training my third at GP, and for the first time I'm getting really amazing involved help at this stage, and its mind blowing! I feel like I'm learning to ride all over again, and yet I have taught my horse all the movements of the test, and we have done our first one, but it still feels like I know nothing at all, and I'm loving every minute of it.