PTS for behaviour issues

Well why are they not doing same for op nobody
has asked her one question only me .were is she
by the way what exactly is wrong with this horse
none of you know which is my point and have to keep
saying .As all as you keep saying is pts and you have
not asked a question yet iam not on about you lot but
origionall post there said it again help this girl but you
all keep argueing and telling your own stories
 
When my lad first came to me, he was coming up to 2 1/2 years old (roughly). I was his 6th home, and he had been through the sales, and a dealers yard with a couple of private homes thrown in there too. When i first got him he seemed like a typical green youngster with a cob attitude (Welsh D). He was obnoxious, he would bite (ears back and mean it) he would spin and try and double barrel kick you (not just with me, i saw him do it to others too), yet i saw hope in there, the soft cuddly moments and the way he`ll try his heart out (when he feels like it ;) ) made me so sure he was the one for me. I have spent the last 3.5 years working him through so many issues (with professional help i might add) .... Yet still, now i haven`t got the "normal" riding horse i set out to buy. Now, knowing how many homes he`d been through when he came to me, knowing what he is like, and seeing how fast his behaviour can deteriorate, i wouldn`t dream of selling him on, or sharing him. I know him inside out, i see the warning signs early on, and can (for the most part) break the cycle of him exploding and striking out.

If my circumstances ever changed, he would be PTS ..... not because i don`t trust him, but because i don`t trust other people.

I have another pony ... my bear ... and he is awesome, in every way, no baggage and i know i could rehome him with out any worries at all. I really think in these circumstances the horses future needs to be well thought out. With the best will in the world no one can guarantee a horses future once you have sold them on, and any horse can find them selves sold on again and again very quickly, especially the difficult ones.
 
lizbet said:
Well why are they not doing same for op nobody
has asked her one question only me .
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I'm guessing English is not your first language. But I digress.

I suspect that no one has asked the OP any questions because we seem to all agree that it's the owners decision at the end of the day, and none of us have the right to question it.

What particular help can you offer lizbet?
 
lizbet said:
You have no idea
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Obviously you have very little experience of a horse with mental as opposed to physical issues. Taking your fluffy bunny tree-hugging approach with such a horse is likely to result in a dreadful accident. Some of us who do have the experience are aware of this and wish to do the best by the horse rather than pass it on for a very dubious future.

And yes, we have a horse like this. Lovely horse most of the time but when he has an 'episode' he is lethal. We have been able to keep him on our own land with his companion, but should that ever change he too will be PTS.

I suggest, lizbet, that you stop condemning people until you fully understand exactly what it can be like and how dangerous it can be.
 
Absolutely agree that some horses cannot be helped and should be PTS to save themselves and others from serious harm.

Also agree that it may well be better to 'invent' a physical illness rather than have the fluffy bunnies and local 'experts' vent their fury on you. This coming from someone who is direct and to the point in RL to a fault.
 
amymay said:
I think she's basically not interested in hearing your story. And wants the OP to list their experience and what she's tried so far......................
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Gosh, you got that? Well done, I didn't understand any of it!

Surely hearing others stories will help the OP in her position? It's the support that she needs and knowing she's not alone facing it - regardless of what she decides.
 
Lastchancer ask the op what is wrong with her
horse .What she has tried to do with it.Try and help
help her instead of banging on about yourself and
telling people to have there horse pts when you do not
know the facts yet.Critising me for trying to help her
There may be no hope but as you can see on hear some
have had a good outcome but what would a do gooder
like me know eh
 
I can understand Lizbet asking questions and offering assistance - which is a nice thing to do.

In this case Lizbet I think the OP has probably reached a decision that the horse will probably need to be PTS and is asking for other people's experiences to help her deal with her feelings about it (feel free to correct me, OP). We must respect that as the thread is not about trying to solve the horse's behaviour; if OP thought the issue was solveable I'm sure she would be posting asking for advice on it.

I don't think any owner enters into such a decision lightly and I'm sure OP (and everyone else who has shared) has thought and thought about all the options in depth.

I think the threads involving PTS on here are measured and thoughtful on the whole. You only have to read the recent 'broodmare with behavioural issues can't be returned to owner' thread to know that it's not the first choice for the vast majority of HHOers.
 
Wasting time on hear dont know whats up
with it like last girl said already decided to be
put to sleep but nice of me to try have a nice day
 
amymay said:
What help can you offer?
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Well it isn't spelling or grammar [meeeeow]

Look Lizbet no one is saying a 'naughty' horse should be put down straight away.
I do think what other posters have said about some horses just seeming 'dangerous' in some homes is very valid (I own one of those & he's come good with me)
But there are horses out there & it is in their best interest & the best interest of anyone who might come into contact with them that they are PTS.
The OP hasn't come back & answered your questions (possibly because they can't understand your posts) but from that I can deduce the OP doesn't want to enter into a discussion about what can/can't be done for this horse, but some support regarding a tough decision she is having to make.
 
maisie06 said:
Who has done this and for what reason? Hope no one minds me asking, but have a horse with an issue I feel cannot be passed on. I would not sell it on for moral reasons and I would also be worried about the horse falling into the wrong hands or ending up neglected.
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Lizbet, this is what the OP asked and we have replied with the information that she requested. She did not ask for advice regarding her own horse, only for other people's experiences with the decision to PTS (or otherwise) a dangerous horse.
 
lizbet said:
Lastchancer ask the op what is wrong with her
horse .What she has tried to do with it.Try and help
help her instead of banging on about yourself and
telling people to have there horse pts when you do not
know the facts yet.Critising me for trying to help her
There may be no hope but as you can see on hear some
have had a good outcome but what would a do gooder
like me know eh
Click to expand...


Not a lot, apparently.
 
Yes. After spending all my money fixing other problems,vets,chiro,saddler,remedial farrier,changing feeds,routines etc he was still a Jekyll and Hyde. I contacted 2 previous racing yards he had been at only to find out my lovely boy was infamous for being a complete nasty bar steward when the mood took him for no apparent reason. Everyone inc trainers had teeth mark tattoos.you ran the daily roulette of avoiding teeth and back legs 90 percent of the time he was fine but would switch for no reason, was a compete armchair to ride and I would have trusted him with anybody in the saddle..but getting to that point was the problem. If he turned on you..I made the mistake once of trying to stand up to him..that was worse than ignoring it. After 2 hospital stays with fractured cheekbone, dislocated shoulder, permanent nerve damage on both arms where he would drag me round by the arm and not let go until he was ready, lots of other l scars from bites and kicks..other people starting to get hurt..he had to start wearing a muzzle as he was so unpredictable.. The vet and i decided for whatever reason this horse had some bad mental scars possibly from years of racing yards and at 12, we couldn't fix him, he was unsuitable to be a companion as it was any groundwork that was the problem, and he was a liability to sell on, a kick or the like in the wrong place and someone could get killed. It was the hardest and most painful decision I have ever had to make and even now 6months later I miss him and think 'what if' but deep down it was the right thing others may not and did not agree but then they didn't have e injuries and empty bank balance and the 12 months of worry and stress.Nor could I have faced him being passed from pillar to post or killing someone. Sorry for the essay. Only you can make the decision :)
 
Yes I have done the same - I persevered with my 'moody' mare for 5 years before she became seriously ill and was diagnosed with ragwort poisoning probably caused by being stabled 24/7 before I got her and being fed hay with ragwort in. She nearly died but came back to us having made a miraculous recovery. She was still fine to hack out but unfortunately the damage to her liver had caused neurological problems and I just couldn't trust her anymore. I rented a field away from my children because she would just bolt or turn with no warning whilst being groomed or just eating a haynet and I couldn't take the risk of her landing on a child or me. In the end I picked a sunny day when my husband was home and my favourite vet was available and I had her PTS in her field. I sobbed and sobbed feeling I'd let her down but she wasn't happy in her head and I would rather have PTS in a controlled environment rather than her running through a fence and breaking a leg and then having to do it in a hurry while she was in pain. It's horrid but you're doing the right thing - passing on a horse like that is dangerous and irresponsible - someone out there will always think they can 'fix' them and could end up killed. Big hugs xxx
 
i wanted too - my horse bronced for NO reason but literally wouldnt stop until it decked you.... it gave me (still have) back problems - threw my friend over a seating bank - how the.hell she didnt break her neck i dont know....

i wanted him shot - but at the time i was 15 and my dad payed the bills...... horse was re-schooled, it kept broncing but in the end it was ok for hacking!...... personally id have shot it.
 
SatansLittleHelper said:
Absolutely the right thing to do. I feel for the owners of horses like this, its bad enough PTS a poorly horse :( I have great respect for those who are caring and responsible enough to make this choice xx
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I'm sure this reply means a lot :) it's one of those horrible situations that as an owner you never ever want to be in.
 
I have to say when I worked in NZ I was initially quite shocked how quick my boss was to PTS anything with problems. It is more common out there not to try and rehabilitate and by the end of my time there I realised it is a good thing in most cases. It improves the breeding lines and means that generally the quality of horses are better physically and mentally. So many people in the UK persist with lost causes that are dangerous when, like others have pointed out, there are plenty with no problems looking for homes. My pet hate is those who have dangerous mares and decide to breed when ridden work becomes impossible.
 
minimilton said:
Generally people who are against PTS for behavioral reasons are people that have not seen genuinely dangerous behavior. More experienced people that have seen people killed/almost killed by a horse are more aware of how easily human life can be taken away in a split second by a horse.

If I were to describe my horse as running backwards violently, people would think "oh just a bit of napping". In reality if you saw him blast backwards through a post and rail at a show, almost crush spectators sitting on a bench, demolishing the bench while people scattered for their lives, the horse finally coming to stop while it was crushing a wooden building under its sheer strength.
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What makes this subject so difficult is one person's idea of dangerous behaviour is so different to another. My boy is also prone to napping at shows. His behaviour is nowhere near what yours does, yet some people would describe it in the same way. He does a bit of spinning, a bit of going backwards but a swift slap with a whip on his bum (from someone on the floor, not me!) will stop that and if he touches anything he shoots forward and usually it's enough to scare him into behaving! Nobody has ever been hurt, we know how to deal with it and make sure there's no other horses or people around as we get him into the ring. Once he's up and running, he's fine. The last time he went anywhere, he scored perfect 10s for almost every TREC obstacle including going under washing lines, through a corridor of flappy horrible 'rubbish' and standing still on his own, but we got a ridiculous number of time penalties because he spent about 2 minutes t**ing about at the start! I call him daft, there are plenty of people who would call him dangerous though.

I wouldn't criticise anybody for making the decision to PTS. Even if it's something somebody else MIGHT be able to deal with, being in that situation at the time must be an awful, dark, place and nobody does it through choice as such, I'm sure it's a last resort. There are so many horses out there in need of good homes, it's better (for them and any potential future owners who could be hurt) that they're PTS than shipped off to an uncertain future.

As someone said if these were dangerous dogs, nobody would be questioning it but horses could be just as lethal.
 
What I am upset about and would worry about should it ever happen again is that I FOUND what I thought was the perfect home for my spinning pony. The lady backed horses for people and was very experienced and ultra confident and she was totally aware of his occasional spinning and felt she could easily deal with it - unfortunately she couldn't and didn't tell me she was going to sell him before passing him to the dealer! Now a young girl (unaware of his habit) has been badly hurt and I feel terrible. If I had just had him PTS instead of thinking it was just due to my nervous riding then it would have been avoided and he wouldn't once again face an uncertain future which I have no control of. Yes I agree there CAN be a suitable home, but the home after that may not be and it could result in tragedy.
 
As someone said if these were dangerous dogs said:
Sadly though this was not completely my experience. Going off subject slightly but just mean to show that people have such varied interpretations for everything. I fostered a lurcher knowing that he had bitten in his last 2 foster homes. In both cases though he'd bitten men and both men said that they'd acted incorrectly around him (one was trying to take his food bowl off of him). I've always had dogs and I live alone so felt in a position to give this lad a chance. It didn't work however and he bit me twice both times needing stitches. He had no trigger and gave no warning. On the day I took him to the vet to be PTS he was muzzled but was his typical happy wonderful self and bounced around the waiting room greeting everyone. I was crying buckets and another customer told me what a terrible person I was for not trying harder! Sadly some people either with minimal facts or fully informed will always believe you are doing the wrong thing.
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Horses and humans are mammals and sometimes mammalian brains don't work the way they are meant to. We have secure hospitals for the humans whose brains mean they are dangerous, some people spend their whole lives there, as they are just too dangerous to be on the outside. We cannot, nor should we, provide that level of containment for dangerous horses or dogs, instead we can do the kindest thing for them and ensure their safety for eternity.
 
Trouble is with horses is, you never quite know their past.

Using your lurcher analgy BaileyBones, I have slightly similar situation.

We had my last dog, Merlin, from a puppy at twelve weeks old. He was a lurcher (whippet/greyhound x collie), and he had a nasty streak in him, probably coming from the collie side of him.

My family have owned dogs forever, and so Merlin getting his fangs out when something didn't quite agree with him, wasn't really a problem. He was trained properly, and was a very happy dog, and was quite simply the best dog I will ever have.

He never, ever bit anyone on purpose though. He snapped at me once, and caught me on my lip, but it was my own fault for startling him. Once he realised what he had done he went to hide himself for hours as he knew he shouldn't have done it. I think he also caught my sister once when she was winding him up with food (it was her own fault as she knew he would growl at her.)

However had Merlin have gone into a home with people that have no idea about dogs - I dread to think what would have happened. At best he would only have bitten somebody, at worst he would have mauled somebody.
 
I had one pts. Had to be 'rebacked ' if he had more than 2 days off, bolted several times and would be going nicely for 10 mins lulling you into false security then flip and completely have a go and run blind. He also savaged other horses when the occasion suited him, 90% of the time in the field he was fine. Shame as was a stunning well built young horse with ability- but after being run blind with-didn't have a care what was in the way, I had to make the decision ( had bolted with previous rider too-but here on rehab to see if we could work with him ). I just couldn't trust him either on the ground or under saddle- vet presumed brain tumour.
 
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