PTS for behaviour issues

A lady I know has a childs pony for sale. She bought it from the local riding school when it closed down but after a few weeks advertised for sale. Sounds great and what i am after so I comment on her Facebook add and get an instant PM from another friend. She told me the pony is dangerous, bucks, bites, rears, spins and is most definitely NOT suitable for a child. The owner told my friend she would sedate the pony for potential viewings to get rid of the little (insert swearword here)... This is why I completely agree and sympathise with anyone considering PTS for behavioural issues, to prevent what is happening in this situation :(
 
I have a mare who can be dangerous infact I posted on here a few years ago about her.

She is still the same, but is now managed that only I and the person I share the field with have anything to do with her. She is very aggressive over food but only in a confined space, out in a field shes fine, so thats where she gets fed. She cannot be taken out of the field as she will buck, rear and plunge and strike out as you as you lead her regardless of whether she is in a headcollar, bridle, chifney or control halter. In the field she is fine, farrier comes in and trims her in the field, vet does jabs/ teeth in the field with no issues. If you try and fight her she'll just come back at you with avengance. She is no longer ridden as you can't trust to get her out of the field so I have no idea what she'd be like but it's not work anyone trying. Shes about 23 now vet and field sharer know if anything happens to me she will be pts and if she shows any signs of her known behaviour in the field I won't hesitate to pts, it's not worth the risk to anyone
 
lizbet said:
Lastchancer ask the op what is wrong with her
horse .What she has tried to do with it.Try and help
help her instead of banging on about yourself and
telling people to have there horse pts when you do not
know the facts yet.Critising me for trying to help her
There may be no hope but as you can see on hear some
have had a good outcome but what would a do gooder
like me know eh
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if your communication skills with horses are the same as your communication skills on here then i suspect that your help would be as much use as a chocolate teapot! the OP asked for similar experiences which is inviting people to 'bang on' about themselves and their experiences, all you have offered so far is incomprehensible wittering
 
lizbet said:
Lastchancer ask the op what is wrong with her
horse .What she has tried to do with it.Try and help
help her instead of banging on about yourself and
telling people to have there horse pts when you do not
know the facts yet.Critising me for trying to help her
There may be no hope but as you can see on hear some
have had a good outcome but what would a do gooder
like me know eh
Click to expand...

You are assuming that the OP has not tried everything? Never assume - it makes an ass out of u and me!

Whilst you profess to be trying to 'help' the OP (although your questions came across more like accusations tbh) you have failed to offer any real and practical help, rather you have castigated every single person on this thread, who, as the OP requested have offered their own experiences.

It is fairly obvious to anyone that you have no help to offer and are a 'life at all costs' person.

OP I think you are behaving in a very responsible, not to mention brave way and my heart goes out to you at this difficult time, it cannot be an easy decision but I think you have already made the right one.
 
Yes totally agree. Too many people disguise the truth to get a sale. Would much rather PTS if could not guarantee horses future and not safe.
 
Ibblebibble said:
if your communication skills with horses are the same as your communication skills on here then i suspect that your help would be as much use as a chocolate teapot! the OP asked for similar experiences which is inviting people to 'bang on' about themselves and their experiences, all you have offered so far is incomprehensible wittering
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Just spluttered all over the keyboard :) Unlike me, you obviously weren't sitting on your hands for that one ;)
 
Even knowing my boys history I have owned him since he was 4 months old in fact owned him while still on the mare, Know his dad who has a wonderful temperament and know his mum who is a lovely if over indulgent mother. He is a git in the field, loose on his own and with others. He attacks first asks questions later and can be quite sneaky about it as he will be loving you one minute and take your head off the next. He has broken my leg in several places, has jumped clean over my head as he is scared of the fence so thought going over me was a better option glad I ducked but it proves dartmoors can jump 5ft4ins, he bites kicks and runs at you. I have tried being nice to him, ignoring him and getting after him all resulted in the behaviour escalating in fact he attacked me when I went to smack him. He is a mummy's boy and adores me most of the time and I can deal with him which is why he is still alive. He is a gentle and lovely boy once caught if a somewhat lazy git. Makes a super driving pony and even better lead rein but he is dangerous in the field or stable (even tried stabling him to see if the extended contact would help him but he attacked everyone that went in to the stable too. He is very territorial and takes no prisoners. I love him to bits but have to warn anyone who come to the field to either stay away from him or wait until I have him caught, He is a **** with the farrier and the vet but he is ok when I am there and with a good quick vet. He broke my nose when the vet vaccinated him as he was too slow. New vet is like lightening with him and so he is out of the way before the little sod reacts
Personally I think he has had all his chances and I would be a very evil person to let him go to anyone else especially if he came into contact with a child. His record to date is to attack over the fence with teeth and front end and on the very first occasion he picked the child up by the scuff of the neck and threw him out of the field. Would you let him go away from where he is safe I bet most of you would have him shot by now. He can carry on doing for me the job that he is best at he is companion to my mares, OH driving pony and granddaughters lead rein He will never have a child on board off lead rein as he would turn on them and savage them if they fell off. He is easy in some ways as if left alone he just grazes and comes for cuddles and he will stay very happily in the field when the others go out and about
 
Crikey, W&R! A fortunate boy, indeed, because certainly I, for one, would have sent him 'hunting' by now. :(


Also, it is possibly easier to manage a pony like this if you are on your own, private, land. When you are in livery, it is a different kettle of fish, because with the best will in the world, there are too many other likely 'victims' about. :(
 
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Brightbay said:
It is certainly the case that some horses (just like some humans) are dangerous to themselves and others.

On the other hand, it's interesting to me that everybody will do extensive veterinary checks and treatments if they think their horse has a physical issue, but it seems behavioural issues are either things you sort out yourself or with your trainer. Does nobody consider getting a qualified behaviourist to examine the horse under veterinary referral? If it was a physio problem, you'd get a physio under vet referral, you wouldn't manipulate the horse yourself. If it was a farriery problem, you'd get a remedial farrier working with your vet. There are people who specialise in working with horses who have severe behaviour problems, but they don't seem to be featuring on this thread. Is it because people just don't know they exist, or is it because people think behaviour is just something that can't be changed?
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I can only give you my answer to this, but I suspect it applies to many of us who ended up with dangerous horses.
When I was younger I took on other people's failed horses, retrained them and sold them on to good homes and useful safe lives. When I got the one I wrote about, I was therefore pretty sure it was him and not me.

The other point is that with a physical problem, you know whether it is fixed or not, and there is no danger to humans if it recurs. With a behaviour problem, you cannot ever know it has been cured, only that it has not been triggered. Since the potential consequences are the death if a human, I would always err on the side of the death of a horse.

A friend of mine walks around with five plates in one leg because à local breeder didn't have the guts to do what I did and sent one away to be schooled in spite of the fact that she and her daughter are very experienced évent riders . And even after that, she sold it and it broke another person's arm before they wised up and shot it.
 
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I did PTS on behavioual grounds - and never regretted it. Horse was very starnge - didnt get on well with other horses either.I had her for ten years , and felt she had every chance to be better than she was. With humans she d kicked someone in the stomch, picked up a child by her hair , and final straw was kicking me on the head . That day I d nearly taken a young child into the field with me -horse could have killed her!
I havent read all the answers here, but am not suprised some are trying to make OP feel bad about her decision. However, I feel anyone who decides to PTS should be supported . The fact is - safety for the handler/rider is paramount , and NO HORSE is worth getting harmed for . As for the poster above I am horrified - sooner or later that horse might well injure someone badly- how will you deal with that? It costs just as much money to keep a bad 'un as a good 'un - so why would you bother?
 
[QUOTE

The other point is that with a physical problem, you know whether it is fixed or not, and there is no danger to humans if it recurs. With a behaviour problem, you cannot ever know it has been cured, only that it has not been triggered.[/QUOTE]

Agree with this - my girl isn't "cured" she is just managed now. Yes she has improved beyond all recognition and her reactions are less frequent but by god when she does over react the same horse is still there. The difference now is that I know the triggers and how to manage the situation.

The girls on the yard almost certainly think I'm a control freak and a drama queen and were horrified when I said that if anything ever happens to me she will be PTS. Then yesterday they saw a glimmer of what I'm talking about when I say she is unpredictable and today I'm less of a control freak apparently.

When you have an animal that relies so much on instinct then I fear that in the wrong situation it will almost always resort to type be that fight or flight.
 
lizbet said:
What is the problem with this horse.How much experience
have you got.Why did you buy the horse in the first place.Did
you spot any of its problems to begin with with.What have you
tried.What are you prepared to try .How much money time and
effort are you prepared to spend before you right this horse off.What
are your plans when its dead.Do you have the knowledge then
to go out and buy another .Sorry but we know nothing about
you or your horse and people are so quick to say pts .Can people
on hear not help you with the problems you have got with this
horse .Pay proffessional to help you first look into a charity taking
him and pay towards his keep how bad is he .
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OP asked us if we had had the experiance and what we thought.
She did not ask us to question her at length about the horse.
OP has no need to 'share ' with us if she does not chose to its her call it's her horse .
I would say to anyone if your guts tell you to PTS a horse with a dangerous behavioural issue do it.
 
dunkley said:
Crikey, W&R! A fortunate boy, indeed, because certainly I, for one, would have sent him 'hunting' by now. :(


Also, it is possibly easier to manage a pony like this if you are on your own, private, land. When you are in livery, it is a different kettle of fish, because with the best will in the world, there are too many other likely 'victims' about. :(
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He is on private land and I would never ever put anyone at risk with him he isnt allowed to go near anyone else unless thye chose to handle him. He is the way he is but he is also a very loving boy the majority of the time I just minimise his impact and if I am no longer able to do that I will have him shot without question. He isnt near anywhere that he can come into contact with anyone inadvertently so for now he is alive and enjoying life any hint of deterioration in his behaviour and he will be gone
 
No one, rational, wants to put a horse down unless they have to. Sometimes, the horse can be beyond the skills of the average horse owner or trainer, and is probably better off out of it.
 
Baileybones said:
[QUOTE

The other point is that with a physical problem, you know whether it is fixed or not, and there is no danger to humans if it recurs. With a behaviour problem, you cannot ever know it has been cured, only that it has not been triggered.
Click to expand...

Agree with this - my girl isn't "cured" she is just managed now. Yes she has improved beyond all recognition and her reactions are less frequent but by god when she does over react the same horse is still there. The difference now is that I know the triggers and how to manage the situation.

The girls on the yard almost certainly think I'm a control freak and a drama queen and were horrified when I said that if anything ever happens to me she will be PTS. Then yesterday they saw a glimmer of what I'm talking about when I say she is unpredictable and today I'm less of a control freak apparently.

When you have an animal that relies so much on instinct then I fear that in the wrong situation it will almost always resort to type be that fight or flight.[/QUote]

People just dont believe it, do they? I am reminded of the notes i left with a horse at hospital saying that the horse could be violently explosive and never to leave him in a box without bars. You can guess the rest :)
 
[QUOTE

People just dont believe it, do they? I am reminded of the notes i left with a horse at hospital saying that the horse could be violently explosive and never to leave him in a box without bars. You can guess the rest :)[/QUOTE]

Same - My girl had a nasty accident and had to be hospitalised. I took time of work and virtually lived there. First few days (whilst seriously on deaths door) they kept cooing about how lovely she was and how I shouldn't worry so much about her as she was lovely. As she got better she returned to form. on day 8 I was asked to take her home after having originally been told she's be in for up to 3 weeks as she picked up a student who'd surprised her and pulled her rug to straighten it! After that it was "ah now we see why you insist on doing her yourself".
 
Pale Rider said:
No one, rational, wants to put a horse down unless they have to. Sometimes, the horse can be beyond the skills of the average horse owner or trainer, and is probably better off out of it.
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That seems like a thinly veiled insult to those who have pts.
I can't speak for all but I had international riders try and 'sort' mine, an extremely well thought of behaviourist and a top referral vet. I did everything in my power to get my horse right, after 5.5 years and permanent injury, I don't think I threw in the towel lightly, or quickly.
 
Pale Rider said:
No one, rational, wants to put a horse down unless they have to. Sometimes, the horse can be beyond the skills of the average horse owner or trainer, and is probably better off out of it.
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No one takes such a desision lightly .
It's not even all about skills I was well able to manage the one I PTS on Wednesday if I never travelled him anywhere and did not put him in a field with another horse he was in many ways a cracking horse I simply chose not to do so it was no fun I had no intention of paying for him for a decade bored and doing nothing .
I chose not to pass him on and risk he ended up in a bad situation .
 
quirky said:
That seems like a thinly veiled insult to those who have pts.
I can't speak for all but I had international riders try and 'sort' mine, an extremely well thought of behaviourist and a top referral vet. I did everything in my power to get my horse right, after 5.5 years and permanent injury, I don't think I threw in the towel lightly, or quickly.
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I don't think this was meant to be insulting - more supportive. Maybe in some cases the horse could be fine with someone else but how on earth do you go about finding that person and even if you did how do you know the horse won't end up passed on again as other posters have mentioned. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting it but I don't think Pale rider was being unkind x
 
I had a horse PTS due to behavioural issues. It was like a switch flicked inside his head, like a Jekyll and Hyde character. He became unpredictable to the point where I felt it was too dangerous for me to continue, and I couldn't possibly sell him not knowing where his future lay, for his sake and anyone elses. I never think it is cruel having animals PTS as they don't plan for the future as we do, if they have had as nice a life as possible up to the end then that is all they know. FYI I had my horse shot. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it, it was instant, he was just eating his feed.
 
To the OP if all physical reasons for 'dangerous' behaviour have been investigated and either nothing or something un-fixable has been found then pts really is in my opinion the best option.

However, like YasandChrystal I owned a dangerous horse, eventually his behaviour became dealable with and he truly was my horse of a lifetime.

Sometimes with the right owner with the right routine and home can change a horses behavioural issues.

I had a cold backed horse, I'd had everything checked so I was 99.9% sure it was behavioural, which given the right warmup was 90% managable so possibly not dangerous in the true sense of the word but in the wrong hands he certainly could have injured or even killed someone. I was very honest when I sold him and after six weeks in the new home the unwanted behaviour was completely cured.
 
Pale Rider said:
No one, rational, wants to put a horse down unless they have to. Sometimes, the horse can be beyond the skills of the average horse owner or trainer, and is probably better off out of it.
Click to expand...

A truly dangerous horse is beyond the skills of any owner or trainer. Average or the best in the world. A humans fate is simply at the mercy of God when dealing with a truly dangerous horse. Its only chance and luck that keeps them alive.

quirky said:
That seems like a thinly veiled insult to those who have pts.
I can't speak for all but I had international riders try and 'sort' mine, an extremely well thought of behaviourist and a top referral vet. I did everything in my power to get my horse right, after 5.5 years and permanent injury, I don't think I threw in the towel lightly, or quickly.
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Agreed. I too have had professional riders, one international rider and some of the top trainers in the country try to fix my horse (I also tried some loopy horse whisperer and a selection of herbalists etc)
They were all left a little red-faced when they realised that actually this seemingly easy horse was in fact totally uncontrollable when he had an episode. This was not an issue due to me being simply an average owner.
 
I have read through this whole thread now and to be honest Im deeply shocked by the things I have read.
The horses, not to mention the countless potential "victims", featured on here have been so very lucky to end up with owners who were responsible enough to do the right thing. It absolutely dumbfounds me that ANY of the people are being blasted or questioned over their decision!!! :eek3:
Those of you who still have your horses are nothing but Saints from where I am stood. (And that is NOT sarcasm).
I have found this thread very humbling to be honest, my respect for alot of the horse community has increased tenfold. You just dont make decisions like these lightly.
I know how hard it is when a horse is physically ill but when they are mentally ill it must be torture :(
I just want to send a MASSIVE hug to all of those on here that have had to make this choice....if there more people like you guys then the horse world would be a much better place xxxx
 
I think what Pale Rider is saying is that if a horse is only safe to be handled and or ridden by the extraodinarily gifted and talented horsepeople but too much for and a danger to most of the rest of us, they are best pts. I agree, there aren't enough super-riders/trainers to take on all the problematic horses and most of them have the experience and the good sense to select easier horses anyway.
 
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Baileybones said:
Sadly though this was not completely my experience. Going off subject slightly but just mean to show that people have such varied interpretations for everything. I fostered a lurcher knowing that he had bitten in his last 2 foster homes. In both cases though he'd bitten men and both men said that they'd acted incorrectly around him (one was trying to take his food bowl off of him). I've always had dogs and I live alone so felt in a position to give this lad a chance. It didn't work however and he bit me twice both times needing stitches. He had no trigger and gave no warning. On the day I took him to the vet to be PTS he was muzzled but was his typical happy wonderful self and bounced around the waiting room greeting everyone. I was crying buckets and another customer told me what a terrible person I was for not trying harder!
Sadly some people either with minimal facts or fully informed will always believe you are doing the wrong thing.
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I had a similar thing with a Yorkie I rehomed, I was told it could be snappy, but I lived alone, and had another Yorkie to keep it company, and it loved me and was fine with me. Without warning one day, while out for a walk, it attacked a small child who was riding a tiny push bike, biting her leg. I was so shocked at the dogs sudden and intentional ferocity, I had it put down. I also had a pony put down who would attack without warning, and if you remonstrated with it, would come at you even harder. Yes, it had had a bad start in life, and it wasn't the pony's fault, but I could see it injuring someone, and I couldn't live with that thought. He had a peaceful few weeks eating his head off (and being left alone) before he went.
 
I had a mare pts for behaviour issues, she would be fine one minute then go completely nuts the next! She would strike out and charge at anything or anyone near her, this would go on for about 30 mins then she would settle. The final straw was when she flipped while I was in the stable with her and she tried jumping over me and the stable door. Vet thought she might have swelling on the brain so I had her shot.
 
tabithakat64 said:
To the OP if all physical reasons for 'dangerous' behaviour have been investigated and either nothing or something un-fixable has been found then pts really is in my opinion the best option.

However, like YasandChrystal I owned a dangerous horse, eventually his behaviour became dealable with and he truly was my horse of a lifetime.

Sometimes with the right owner with the right routine and home can change a horses behavioural issues.

I had a cold backed horse, I'd had everything checked so I was 99.9% sure it was behavioural, which given the right warmup was 90% managable so possibly not dangerous in the true sense of the word but in the wrong hands he certainly could have injured or even killed someone. I was very honest when I sold him and after six weeks in the new home the unwanted behaviour was completely cured.
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My horse of a lifetime was frankly nuts she was a night mare with the wrong rider but with time she and I had an absolute blast.
We adored each other .
But a very naughty to ride young horse is different to horse in its teens that's had everything, vets etc and thrown at it and £ 1000's of pounds spent , the damage mine caused alone cost many times his purchase price that's without the vets etc and when in your guts you know they are getting worse you just have to put people first.
In my case I just did not want to look at him again When you're sixth sense tells you something you listern I ignored it once and ended damaged for life I wont do it again.
 
Also, how lucky is it for a seriously quirky (or whatever you want to call it) horse to actually find the right owner who can save it/get the tune out of it? More often than not horses like that when advertised attract a long line of morons who think they're going to have a Black Stallion experience and just end up making things worse.
 
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