PTS for behaviour issues

[maisie06]

Wow! 15 Pages of replies! Thankyou for telling your stories. I am glad I brought this subject up for discussion. This is NOT an easy decision to make.
To the poster who seems to have an issue: I am not a novice who has gone out and rescued a pretty pony from the local meat mart......I have well over 20 years of experience in all types of horses, I don't ride much now due to ongoing back issues and am happy hack these days.

This horse is a lovely horse to handle on the ground, kind and easy to do - so I hear you cry "what's the problem?" Well, it bolts.....it gives no warning will be happily hacking along the BAM!! spins 180 in a nano second and runs with no care or consideration for anything....twice it's done this now and it's on borrowed time. There is no warning, nothing. to me this is dangerous. The animal is a hack, it's not show standard and too old for the ring anyway, nor would it be happy just mulling in the field (and I cannot keep another paddock ornament)

I have known this animal nearly all it's life, it's never had any bad treatment, and the running off has come out of the blue, it's like the animal is regressing. The animal owes me nothing, but what I owe it will be a calm and dignified end in a place where it is loved and is familair with. It is MY responsibility - and don't be so ridiculous regarding passing it on for a charity to deal with - they are overflowing with needy, neglected equines already!! what planet are you on??

I could loan as a companion, but TBH I cannot have it back once it's gone and also what's to stop someone seeing a lovely looking animal and then trying to ride it as it is perfcetly sound??? I will NOT pass my problem on to someone else.

NB - I am calling the horse "it" so not to give too many clues on an open forum! pleased be rest assured this is a much loved horse.

 

[Fii]

Wow! 15 Pages of replies! Thankyou for telling your stories. I am glad I brought this subject up for discussion. This is NOT an easy decision to make.
To the poster who seems to have an issue: I am not a novice who has gone out and rescued a pretty pony from the local meat mart......I have well over 20 years of experience in all types of horses, I don't ride much now due to ongoing back issues and am happy hack these days.

This horse is a lovely horse to handle on the ground, kind and easy to do - so I hear you cry "what's the problem?" Well, it bolts.....it gives no warning will be happily hacking along the BAM!! spins 180 in a nano second and runs with no care or consideration for anything....twice it's done this now and it's on borrowed time. There is no warning, nothing. to me this is dangerous. The animal is a hack, it's not show standard and too old for the ring anyway, nor would it be happy just mulling in the field (and I cannot keep another paddock ornament)

I have known this animal nearly all it's life, it's never had any bad treatment, and the running off has come out of the blue, it's like the animal is regressing. The animal owes me nothing, but what I owe it will be a calm and dignified end in a place where it is loved and is familair with. It is MY responsibility - and don't be so ridiculous regarding passing it on for a charity to deal with - they are overflowing with needy, neglected equines already!! what planet are you on??

I could loan as a companion, but TBH I cannot have it back once it's gone and also what's to stop someone seeing a lovely looking animal and then trying to ride it as it is perfcetly sound??? I will NOT pass my problem on to someone else.

NB - I am calling the horse "it" so not to give too many clues on an open forum! pleased be rest assured this is a much loved horse.

You are making the right decision not to pass on the problem, we all love our horses, but lets be honest here, a horses life for a humans is no contest is it!!
I am lucky in that i have the room too keep my bolter and he is happy as he is, he was broken and gelded late in life, and came too my friend as a hat rack, starved and neglected, i like that he is happy, safe and well fed in his later years, but only because i can do that, not every one can, and shouldnt be made to feel guilty for doing the right thing!

 

[Adopter]

OP wish you all best best with your decision, you do not need to explain yourself to us, just to say I fully support your decision not to pass a problem on to someone else.

 

[lastchancer]

OP thanks for giving us a bit more info, not that you needed too. Given what you have told us there is no doubt whatsoever that you are doing the right thing. Spoil him whilst you still have him then let him go knowing that you have done the last possible kindness for him. All the best.

 

[lizbet]

Wow! 15 Pages of replies! Thankyou for telling your stories. I am glad I brought this subject up for discussion. This is NOT an easy decision to make.
To the poster who seems to have an issue: I am not a novice who has gone out and rescued a pretty pony from the local meat mart......I have well over 20 years of experience in all types of horses, I don't ride much now due to ongoing back issues and am happy hack these days.

This horse is a lovely horse to handle on the ground, kind and easy to do - so I hear you cry
"what's the problem?" Well, it bolts.....it gives no warning will be happily hacking along the BAM!! spins 180 in a nano second and runs with no care or consideration for anything....twice it's done this now and it's on borrowed time. There is no warning, nothing. to me this is dangerous. The animal is a hack, it's not show standard and too old for the ring anyway, nor would it be happy just mulling in the field (and I cannot keep another paddock ornament)

I have known this animal nearly all it's life, it's never had any bad treatment, and the running off has come out of the blue, it's like the animal is regressing. The animal owes me nothing, but what I owe it will be a calm and dignified end in a place where it is loved and is familair with. It is MY responsibility - and don't be so ridiculous regarding passing it on for a charity to deal with - they are overflowing with needy, neglected equines already!! what planet are you on??

I could loan as a companion, but TBH I cannot have it back once it's gone and also what's to stop someone seeing a lovely looking animal and then trying to ride it as it is perfcetly sound??? I will NOT pass my problem on to someone else.

NB - I am calling the horse "it" so not to give too many clues on an open forum! pleased be rest assured this is a much loved horse.

Well i rest my case i will try to spell
correctly to as it is more inportant than horses being
put to sleep.You say you have known this horse
all its life and never been a problem. As its aged its
started to bolt.Well lets see COULD IT HAVE A
HEAlTH PROBLEM. I knew one that used to bolt
as it had cateracts and it was like looking through
misty mirror another had built up plaque in its
ears would gallop of when sorted it was fine.
It But its funny how its just started doing it and
with you .My intention was to help you .And you said
you do not want it to go as a companion in case
they pass it on .As a companion it would be in the
field all day why can it not do that with you.You could
still contribute to its keep were ever you retire it to
if indeed it does need to be retired....But this is such
a waste of time i wish you well i just wanted to point
out that there may be some help for you and i was right
Goodbye x

 

[lastchancer]

Well i rest my case i will try to spell
correctly to as it is more inportant than horses being
put to sleep.You say you have known this horse
all its life and never been a problem. As its aged its
started to bolt.Well lets see COULD IT HAVE A
HEAlTH PROBLEM. I knew one that used to bolt
as it had cateracts and it was like looking through
misty mirror another had built up plaque in its
ears would gallop of when sorted it was fine.
It But its funny how its just started doing it and
with you .My intention was to help you .And you said
you do not want it to go as a companion in case
they pass it on .As a companion it would be in the
field all day why can it not do that with you.You could
still contribute to its keep were ever you retire it to
if indeed it does need to be retired....But this is such
a waste of time i wish you well i just wanted to point
out that there may be some help for you and i was right
Goodbye x

Yes yes you were right all along maybe we should all just stop and listen and think about our horses might have plaques in there ears and thats why they be naughty and run off and things like that wen all they need is there ears picking out and sum eye drops and then they will be alot better after that and then they can go jumping and stuff and gallop on the beech with there rider in summer so its best just to look in its ears just in case thats all it is but if not then they can go and be retyred in a big feild like black buety and merrilegs and warhorse and i think shergar mite have went there but i dont no cos he went missing i think he ran off due to the plax in is eers

 

[lizbet]

Yes yes you were right all along maybe we should all just stop and listen and think about our horses might have plaques in there ears and thats why they be naughty and run off and things like that wen all they need is there ears picking out and sum eye drops and then they will be alot better after that and then they can go jumping and stuff and gallop on the beech with there rider in summer so its best just to look in its ears just in case thats all it is but if not then they can go and be retyred in a big feild like black buety and merrilegs and warhorse and i think shergar mite have went there but i dont no cos he went missing i think he ran off due to the plax in is eers

Well i was expecting that kind of
reply from you read the text properly no you cant giving it a bullet
is more your sytle.I will learn to spell when you learn to read.Now be grown up
enough to except someone elses point of view. This horse has been
fine for years if it turns out to have a real problem i accept that.
What i dont accept is peole being nasty like you i can accept when there
is no hope.Can you accept when there is hope .No just be B****y

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

Yes yes you were right all along maybe we should all just stop and listen and think about our horses might have plaques in there ears and thats why they be naughty and run off and things like that wen all they need is there ears picking out and sum eye drops and then they will be alot better after that and then they can go jumping and stuff and gallop on the beech with there rider in summer so its best just to look in its ears just in case thats all it is but if not then they can go and be retyred in a big feild like black buety and merrilegs and warhorse and i think shergar mite have went there but i dont no cos he went missing i think he ran off due to the plax in is eers

OMFG :eek3: The above ^^ + coffee + phone = a right bluddy mess !!!!!!

 

[khalswitz]

OMFG :eek3: The above ^^ + coffee + phone = a right bluddy mess !!!!!!

Reading this as stupid o'clock having got up for dressage - error as now I don't know what's real anymore...

 

[bumper]

OP thanks for giving us a bit more info, not that you needed too. Given what you have told us there is no doubt whatsoever that you are doing the right thing. Spoil him whilst you still have him then let him go knowing that you have done the last possible kindness for him. All the best.

That. All the best

ETA Please do ignore the teenagers above....!!!

 

[hairycob]

Oh god, I did say there is always one didn't I.
Lizbet - you come across as very young & naive. As I said in my earlier post there are more people who think they can cure difficult horses than people who actually can & I am forming a picture of which category you would fall into. Maybe that will change as you get more experience of life & hard knocks.

 

[cptrayes]

Wow! 15 Pages of replies! Thankyou for telling your stories. I am glad I brought this subject up for discussion. This is NOT an easy decision to make.
To the poster who seems to have an issue: I am not a novice who has gone out and rescued a pretty pony from the local meat mart......I have well over 20 years of experience in all types of horses, I don't ride much now due to ongoing back issues and am happy hack these days.

This horse is a lovely horse to handle on the ground, kind and easy to do - so I hear you cry "what's the problem?" Well, it bolts.....it gives no warning will be happily hacking along the BAM!! spins 180 in a nano second and runs with no care or consideration for anything....twice it's done this now and it's on borrowed time. There is no warning, nothing. to me this is dangerous. The animal is a hack, it's not show standard and too old for the ring anyway, nor would it be happy just mulling in the field (and I cannot keep another paddock ornament)

I have known this animal nearly all it's life, it's never had any bad treatment, and the running off has come out of the blue, it's like the animal is regressing. The animal owes me nothing, but what I owe it will be a calm and dignified end in a place where it is loved and is familair with. It is MY responsibility - and don't be so ridiculous regarding passing it on for a charity to deal with - they are overflowing with needy, neglected equines already!! what planet are you on??

I could loan as a companion, but TBH I cannot have it back once it's gone and also what's to stop someone seeing a lovely looking animal and then trying to ride it as it is perfcetly sound??? I will NOT pass my problem on to someone else.

NB - I am calling the horse "it" so not to give too many clues on an open forum! pleased be rest assured this is a much loved horse.

Another one here who would have only the slightest hesitation in putting that horse down. A bolter with no regard for its own safety may kill someone next time.


I can't think of any way that a horse which has done it twice can ever be safely tested that someone has fixed it, even if anyone thought there was a way to fix it.

 

[Booboos]

Well to be fair to Lizbet while I don't agree with her earlier posts if the problem is a recent one there is a good chance it has a physical cause. That doesn't mean that OP is wrong to PTS, just because there is a physical cause it doesn't mean it will be easy or cheap to find and treat but it does make the decision a bit different. The OP has to decide whether it's worth spending money, time and effort to try to at least exclude a physical cause or whether it's better to PTS now. No one is made of money and there is a limit to what one would put an elderly horse through.

 

[cptrayes]

Just like to qualify my earlier response to say that it only applies if, as I fully expect she has, any 'normally' identifiable physical causes have been ruled out.

 

[Patterdale]

People may not agree with Lizbet but having a go at her for her spelling and grammar is just plain old nasty. I'm glad I'm not on a livery yard with some of you....

 

[Flicker]

Wow! 15 Pages of replies! Thankyou for telling your stories. I am glad I brought this subject up for discussion. This is NOT an easy decision to make.
To the poster who seems to have an issue: I am not a novice who has gone out and rescued a pretty pony from the local meat mart......I have well over 20 years of experience in all types of horses, I don't ride much now due to ongoing back issues and am happy hack these days.

This horse is a lovely horse to handle on the ground, kind and easy to do - so I hear you cry "what's the problem?" Well, it bolts.....it gives no warning will be happily hacking along the BAM!! spins 180 in a nano second and runs with no care or consideration for anything....twice it's done this now and it's on borrowed time. There is no warning, nothing. to me this is dangerous. The animal is a hack, it's not show standard and too old for the ring anyway, nor would it be happy just mulling in the field (and I cannot keep another paddock ornament)

I have known this animal nearly all it's life, it's never had any bad treatment, and the running off has come out of the blue, it's like the animal is regressing. The animal owes me nothing, but what I owe it will be a calm and dignified end in a place where it is loved and is familair with. It is MY responsibility - and don't be so ridiculous regarding passing it on for a charity to deal with - they are overflowing with needy, neglected equines already!! what planet are you on??

I could loan as a companion, but TBH I cannot have it back once it's gone and also what's to stop someone seeing a lovely looking animal and then trying to ride it as it is perfcetly sound??? I will NOT pass my problem on to someone else.

NB - I am calling the horse "it" so not to give too many clues on an open forum! pleased be rest assured this is a much loved horse.

Maisie06, I wonder if your horse may be developing a brain tumour? Sounds very similar to friend-of-friend's experience with a youngster, who she had PTS. The vet found a tumour at Post Mortem (which the owner had requested).
I know someone else who had a beautiful, sound and healthy horse PTS after it developed a habit of running backwards. It didn't stop until it had physically collided with something - car, wall, horse... It was just a matter of time before that happened on a hack, or on the yard with a small child around.

So, the short answer after all that is 'yes' I would absolutely PTS for behavioural issues, because unlike lameness problems, there is also an element of risk and safety for you and others that you have to factor in.

So sorry for your situation though, it is a heart breaking decision to have to make.

 

[maisie06]

Well i rest my case i will try to spell
correctly to as it is more inportant than horses being
put to sleep.You say you have known this horse
all its life and never been a problem. As its aged its
started to bolt.Well lets see COULD IT HAVE A
HEAlTH PROBLEM. I knew one that used to bolt
as it had cateracts and it was like looking through
misty mirror another had built up plaque in its
ears would gallop of when sorted it was fine.
It But its funny how its just started doing it and
with you .My intention was to help you .And you said
you do not want it to go as a companion in case
they pass it on .As a companion it would be in the
field all day why can it not do that with you.You could
still contribute to its keep were ever you retire it to
if indeed it does need to be retired....But this is such
a waste of time i wish you well i just wanted to point
out that there may be some help for you and i was right
Goodbye x

It does not have a health problem, and the vet and a pro rider fully support the decision - if you don't like it hard luck, you cannot save everything and it's due to people like you that I will not loan or sell this animal. It is not only me he does it with FYI. Not that I need to justify myself to you for one moment!!
From the responses of the sensible people on here I am doing the best thing and it's been good to hear other people's stories. My bet is that you are a dreamer who has never been in such a situation.

 

[Goldenstar]

It does not have a health problem, and the vet and a pro rider fully support the decision - if you don't like it hard luck, you cannot save everything and it's due to people like you that I will not loan or sell this animal. It is not only me he does it with FYI. Not that I need to justify myself to you for one moment!!
From the responses of the sensible people on here I am doing the best thing and it's been good to hear other people's stories. My bet is that you are a dreamer who has never been in such a situation.

Don't upset yourself maisie06 .
Jusy put her on user ignore until this is over .
You are doing the right thing this is the worse time after although you do feel strange and ' bad ' it gets better.
Hugs to you it's a horrible place to be.

 

[Cedars]

Never had one put down purely for behavioural reasons, but had two put down where their behaviour would have made rehab/training etc too risky for those around them. In both cases we had the health conditions fully assessed, looked at the various options, had the 'if this was your horse' conversation with the vets, and had trainers attempt to correct the behaviour (and sought their opinions on course of action), before making a decision based on all the factors involved in that horse's care.

I agree with one of the first comments about not telling many people. I don't regret either decision we made for a second - but I do regret telling people who then took it upon themselves to make us feel like murderers.

I would never pass on a horse with a significant, life risking behavioural problem as it would never leave my mind that I might get that phone call saying they killed someone.

 

[Flicker]

I agree with one of the first comments about not telling many people. I don't regret either decision we made for a second - but I do regret telling people who then took it upon themselves to make us feel like murderers.

I have seen this happen too. Entire Facebook threads devoted to the character assassination of good people, trying to do the best by their animals, by a bunch of armchair commentators who have no idea about the true circumstances. As if the initial decision, plus the pain of going through with putting your horse to sleep isn't hard enough... Sick.

 

[Cortez]

It is the owner's decision to manage the horse as they best see fit. There is no obligation to keep a horse for life, and while some in the UK horse culture seem to see it as a bounden duty to keep horses that are unridable for whatever reason in endless retirement or undergoing immensely expensive procedures, other people take a more practical approach. Yet others choose to pass the problems on which is in my opinion irresponsible, especially since there are dreamers out there who think they can cure any problem with love and aromatherapy.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

One of the issues that I have seen over the years is when people mistake naughty or untrained for true dangerous behaviour. Bolting is a good example as rushing off for a few paces is labelled 'bolting' by some, which of course is nothing like a true bolt. Then the people see the horse being sorted with work and training and don't understand why other 'bolters' can't be fixed too. The owner of a true bolter knows how dangerous it is and they are being extremely brave and sensible having the horse PTS.

 

[Cortez]

One of the issues that I have seen over the years is when people mistake naughty or untrained for true dangerous behaviour. Bolting is a good example as rushing off for a few paces is labelled 'bolting' by some, which of course is nothing like a true bolt. Then the people see the horse being sorted with work and training and don't understand why other 'bolters' can't be fixed too. The owner of a true bolter knows how dangerous it is and they are being extremely brave and sensible having the horse PTS.

I absolutely agree that many, many horses are labelled "dangerous" when they are simply too much for their owners and proper training would sort the horse out, but they are still dangerous for the riders they have at that moment. And I would even agree that PTS in that sort of situation is still a reasonable option; not every horse that needs a professional rider/trainer is going to get one and so they will never be safe for an average rider.

 

[Ibblebibble]

It is the owner's decision to manage the horse as they best see fit. There is no obligation to keep a horse for life, and while some in the UK horse culture seem to see it as a bounden duty to keep horses that are unridable for whatever reason in endless retirement or undergoing immensely expensive procedures, other people take a more practical approach. Yet others choose to pass the problems on which is in my opinion irresponsible, especially since there are dreamers out there who think they can cure any problem with love and aromatherapy.

oh if only there were more who think like you, (and the vast majority on this thread) there would be so many less horses being passed from pillar to post getting more stressed and unpredictable! Maisie06 i applaud your decision, a true bolter is a time bomb that should never be passed on. letting 'it' go peacefully without the trauma of trying to be fixed by fluffy do gooders is the kindest and safest thing you can do

 

[The wife]

I would do it in a heartbeat. I'm sure plenty of people have said it but there are so many nice ones out there that want to work with you, why continue with one that can't Or won't. For me it's the kindest thing one could do for an animal that has lost its way and is not going to come back. Saves a lifetime of potential bad homes that do not understand the issues and put them down to naughtiness.

We had a young horse come in, nothing untoward but whilst backing we had an inkling he'd been started before, he knew all the tricks on the books. 3 weeks after he was backed he bolted into a post and rail fence for no reason. It wouldn't have mattered if it was a brick wall, he was still going. 2 weeks later he did it again. He was intended for a riding club horse and I had highly advised the owner to have him PTS as he was dangerous, highly reactive and very unpredictable. Unfortunately the young fella got sold on and ended up breaking some bodies back bolting into a wall. Last I heard he had been sold on to somebody who 'could fix him'. I hope in the nicest way he has gone over the rainbow. Sometimes I think they aren't fixable. It's sad but true. A human life is worth 10x that of an animals I'm afraid.

 

[hayinamanger]

I've done this and would do it again if necessary. A horse with issues will only become more difficult in the wrong hands, through no fault of it's own.

 

[MiniMilton]

One of the issues that I have seen over the years is when people mistake naughty or untrained for true dangerous behaviour. Bolting is a good example as rushing off for a few paces is labelled 'bolting' by some, which of course is nothing like a true bolt. Then the people see the horse being sorted with work and training and don't understand why other 'bolters' can't be fixed too. The owner of a true bolter knows how dangerous it is and they are being extremely brave and sensible having the horse PTS.

Absolutely. The word bolting is overused in the wrong circumstances. A true bolter is a danger to itself, its rider, and any poor unfortunate person unlucky enough to be in its path.

 

[The wife]

Absolutely. The word bolting is overused in the wrong circumstances. A true bolter is a danger to itself, its rider, and any poor unfortunate person unlucky enough to be in its path.

I agree completely. That is why I like the term runner for one that, well runs! We bought one a year or so back, he was a renowned panic runner and although goes places quickly when he's scared he is not a bolter as never goes blind.

 

[Ladyinred]

I agree completely. That is why I like the term runner for one that, well runs! We bought one a year or so back, he was a renowned panic runner and although goes places quickly when he's scared he is not a bolter as never goes blind.

I have only ever been truly bolted with once and am amazed both me and pony lived to tell the tale. Gallopped out of the bridleway, straight on to a road and through the traffic all the way home. Terrifying.

OTOH I have been run away with many many times, usually through my own fault.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

I would prefer to see an animal with issues PTS than passed from home to home and maybe causing someone down the line a serious accident. I have a horse that isn't suitable to ride for various reasons but I have kept her and she will stay with me until the day she dies as I have my own land and can afford to have a field ornament but if ever the time came that I couldn't she would be PTS, never sold for someone else to deal with her issues. If you can't afford to keep the horse and their issues are something that would mean problems for others then PTS is the most humane way forward.