Public sector pensions

[TheoryX1]

I havent read all of this thread, but have read enough of it to want to comment. I dont work in the public sector, I am a company director of a medium sized company. I pay a reasonable amount of corporation tax, plus personal tax. I have personal guarantees against mine and my business partner's personal assets as required by our bankers, we employ a lot of people, we have to generate a lot of cash every month just to break even, we work hard and want to keep our employees in jobs. Sorry to say this, but I do NOT agree with this strike. Do you not know how many people out there are unemployed, without even the chance to earn enough cash to pay into a pension?

My father is a retired police officer, and I am aware of how much he paid into his pension - a lot, but he gets a good pension, which is deserved. As a huge supporter of free enterprise, you will only get out, what you put in, which is what happened with my dad. I really dont have the answers, to this, but I do wish people would stop whinging about what they havent got, and be grateful for what they have got - A JOB.

 

[Mithras]

So do public sector workers make a contribution towards health care, education etc by paying VAT or don't they?

If yes, why does the same not apply to the income tax that public sector workers pay? Why does the point at which the tax is paid decide whether the contribution is relevant or not?

If the VAT paid by public sector workers does not contribute towards health care etc, why should they pay it?

Surely the pertinent question is whether they make a net profit or not? i.e. do they put more into the economy than they take out?

Presumably the majority of public sector workers do not, therefore common sense would be to keep them to the minimum necessary to ensure a healthy economy (e.g. front line health care staff, essential administrators, essential public transport staff, essential education staff, etc). However Governments need to manipulate unemployment figures, and control people...

 

[cptrayes]

So do public sector workers make a contribution towards health care, education etc by paying VAT or don't they?

No they don't. Because again they are paying the tax from money which was already given to them by a taxpayer. It is the same money, you can't count it twice.

If yes, why does the same not apply to the income tax that public sector workers pay? Why does the point at which the tax is paid decide whether the contribution is relevant or not?

The answer is NO. It does not make any difference where the tax is paid, it makes no contribution to running the public sector.

If the VAT paid by public sector workers does not contribute towards health care etc, why should they pay it?

Because they have been given money in their salaries to enable them to pay it. It would be far too complex to work out what individual was going to buy what and pay what VAT on the purchases to enable that amount of money to be taken out of their salary before it was paid. So instead, a public sector employee has in their salary an "average" amount of money which is paid so that they can pay Vat and other discretionary taxes. This only works if you consider "the public sector" as a whole and not as individual salaries.

The tax and NI argument is much easier. It's perfectly possible to pay you a salary which does not require you to pay tax and NI, "the system" just chooses not to work that way. The Vat argument is much more difficult to understand but it is still the same. No tax that you pay anywhere contributes to the running of the public sector. All you are doing is "passing through" money that someone else from the private sector has already paid in taxes.

It's fairly easy to see that this is the truth. Imagine that all private sector companies close tomorrow and all private sector employees are made redundant. All public sector workers are still employed. Who is going to pay your salary next month?


This is just a fact. It is not "getting at" the Public Sector. It has nothing to do with how the Public Sector is run or whether it should be privatised or whether people in it contribute to society, or work hard or anything else. But it does mean that the argument "I'm a taxpayer so I contribute to these pensions too" is simply not correct, sorry. And it's why I personally believe that for a teacher on £25k a year to strike to try to make a shop assistant on £11k a year continue to pay tax to contribute to that teacher's salary linked pension, the like of which the shop worker cannot ever have, is wrong.

 

[BeesKnees]

This is just a fact. It is not "getting at" the Public Sector. It has nothing to do with how the Public Sector is run or whether it should be privatised or whether people in it contribute to society, or work hard or anything else. But it does mean that the argument "I'm a taxpayer so I contribute to these pensions too" is simply not correct, sorry. And it's why I personally believe that for a teacher on £25k a year to strike to try to make a shop assistant on £11k a year continue to pay tax to contribute to that teacher's salary linked pension, the like of which the shop worker cannot ever have, is wrong.

THIS ^^

I find it bizarre the way that even rational discussion of the financing of the public sector results in accusations of 'public sector bashing' and the 'hope you don't ever need any care' and ' I work really hard' lines of argument. As if people in the private sector don't work long hours in demanding jobs, with annoying bosses and crappy bureaucracy and shortage of necessary equipment etc etc.

And as for Santa Paws being 'patronising', all she has done is tried to patiently and courteously explain to a number of people who clearly don't understand how their salaries and pensions are paid for.

 

[nursecroft]

THIS ^^

I find it bizarre the way that even rational discussion of the financing of the public sector results in accusations of 'public sector bashing' and the 'hope you don't ever need any care' and ' I work really hard' lines of argument. As if people in the private sector don't work long hours in demanding jobs, with annoying bosses and crappy bureaucracy and shortage of necessary equipment etc etc.

And as for Santa Paws being 'patronising', all she has done is tried to patiently and courteously explain to a number of people who clearly don't understand how their salaries and pensions are paid for.

sorry I missed the part in the thread where it was said that public workers work harder than private care workers, please do quote it for me.

You know I do wonder why i bothered to go to uni and getting an education if its apparantly worth nothing. I'm sure all our MPs are certainly not feeling the 'pinch' what about the bankers that cause all this in the first place, surely our anger would be best placed at them rather than at eachother!!! We are all well aware how our pensions and salaries are paid for, we are all taxpayers. Many posts on this forum are blantant public sector bashing, crikey according to one member on this forum we're all 'muppets'. I have worked in both private and public sectors as a nurse and I'm planning to go back private, working conditions are better, pays better and you are appreciated private workers should be appreciated too!!). I certainly can't afford my own horse, i get asked to ride other peoples and ride Winston regulary for a lady, I'm very lucky.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

I have worked in both private and public sectors as a nurse and I'm planning to go back private, working conditions are better, pays better and you are appreciated private workers should be appreciated too!!).

Having worked for many years as a qualified nurse in the NHS, BUPA and the Nuffield and as an agency nurse, I found the conditions and perks were definitely better in the NHS.

 

[perfect11s]

sorry I missed the part in the thread where it was said that public workers work harder than private care workers, please do quote it for me.

You know I do wonder why i bothered to go to uni and getting an education if its apparantly worth nothing. I'm sure all our MPs are certainly not feeling the 'pinch' what about the bankers that cause all this in the first place, surely our anger would be best placed at them rather than at eachother!!! We are all well aware how our pensions and salaries are paid for, we are all taxpayers. Many posts on this forum are blantant public sector bashing, crikey according to one member on this forum we're all 'muppets'. I have worked in both private and public sectors as a nurse and I'm planning to go back private, working conditions are better, pays better and you are appreciated private workers should be appreciated too!!). I certainly can't afford my own horse, i get asked to ride other peoples and ride Winston regulary for a lady, I'm very lucky.

Heck what a fantastic job the unions have done of brain washing these people into believing that they are hard done too and its the bankers fault!!! we are in a mess ... two points one you have well paid and fairly secure jobs with very reasonable pension provision.... still!! and two its that Gordon brown and labour screwed the economy ..failed to regulate the banks , spent MORE money than was coming in, and then as it's becoming aparrent wasted bilions of pounds bailing out scottish banks without any safeguards as to how they will behave in the future .... ITS THE LAST GOVERMENT'S FAULT and the mongs that voted them in ...

 

[nursecroft]

Having worked for many years as a qualified nurse in the NHS, BUPA and the Nuffield and as an agency nurse, I found the conditions and perks were definitely better in the NHS.

Having also worked for many years as a nurse for charity run hospice, Bupa, NHS and an agency nurse too, I'd rather have better working conditions and get rid of all this stress. Because you get no thanks for burning yourself out. I worked on a surgical thoracic ward, we had a permenantly open medical outlyer bay, I collapsed 3 years ago on the ward, got taken to A&E and told it was dyhydration and exhaustion.... I left after that. Its the patients that ultimately suffer, I hate not having the time to provide a high standard of care. At least at the hospice its well staffed, I have time to sit and talk to the families and patients because that is just as important as meeting their physical needs.

 

[nursecroft]

Heck what a fantastic job the unions have done of brain washing these people into believing that they are hard done too and its the bankers fault!!! we are in a mess ... two points one you have well paid and fairly secure jobs with very reasonable pension provision.... still!! and two its that Gordon brown and labour screwed the economy ..failed to regulate the banks , spent MORE money than was coming in, and then as it's becoming aparrent wasted bilions of pounds bailing out scottish banks without any safeguards as to how they will behave in the future .... ITS THE LAST GOVERMENT'S FAULT and the mongs that voted them in ...

Yeh ok, we're going in circles, if nursing is soooo brilliant why don't you train? One thing I do agree with is the goverment has screwed up the economy and is ultimately responsible. Who would you vote in? I think they are all as bad as eachother.

 

[Oliver12]

Yeh ok, we're going in circles, if nursing is soooo brilliant why don't you train? One thing I do agree with is the goverment has screwed up the economy and is ultimately responsible. Who would you vote in? I think they are all as bad as eachother.

Hey, nursing isn't so bad you know. My two sisters are NHS nurses and behind closed doors they admit they have quite a cushy number. Okay, they don't like the night shifts but they do admit they aren't running around like blue ar*ed flies like care workers, etc and the reason they know this is one decided to work privately in a care home for a while but admitted conditions were much better in the NHS. They earn very good money, have very good pensions lined up and both of them take several holidays abroad each year unlike me who unfortunately because I faint at the sight of (human) blood decided it wasn't the profession for me.

 

[Mithras]

You know I do wonder why i bothered to go to uni and getting an education if its apparantly worth nothing. I'm sure all our MPs are certainly not feeling the 'pinch' what about the bankers that cause all this in the first place, surely our anger would be best placed at them rather than at eachother!!! We are all well aware how our pensions and salaries are paid for, we are all taxpayers. Many posts on this forum are blantant public sector bashing, crikey according to one member on this forum we're all 'muppets'.

One of the reasons you go to university is to learn to critically evaluate differing sources of information and come to reasoned conclusions. Not necessarily to take the most simplistic or self interest point of view.

I have no problem with nurses - I do have a problem with a bloated, inefficient public sector, unecessary layers of underperforming middle management and lazy working practices. I've been a solicitor in both public and private practise - in the latter, the stress is unbelievable, as not only do you have to commonly work 6 days a week for no overtime and 12 hour days, you are also expected to bring in new business! (and no benefits and pensions). In the public sector, my workload was so tiny as to barely occupy a 1/4 of my day, and the pension provision incredibly generous compared to the private sector - when I left after just over a year, I got a few thousand back after surrendering my pension!

 

[siennamum]

Heck what a fantastic job the unions have done of brain washing these people into believing that they are hard done too and its the bankers fault!!! we are in a mess ... two points one you have well paid and fairly secure jobs with very reasonable pension provision.... still!! and two its that Gordon brown and labour screwed the economy ..failed to regulate the banks , spent MORE money than was coming in, and then as it's becoming aparrent wasted bilions of pounds bailing out scottish banks without any safeguards as to how they will behave in the future .... ITS THE LAST GOVERMENT'S FAULT and the mongs that voted them in ...

I agree that there are big issues with bankers. I disagree that the coalition will act any differently to Labour, and can't see that the unions are in any way to blame for the crisis:

A couple of eye watering figures (& my opinion on where we should be directing our national anger)
"According to the IMF, British taxpayers have shelled out £289bn in "direct upfront financing" to prop up the banks since 2008. Add in the various government loans and underwriting, and taxpayers are on the hook for £1.19tn"

 

[BeesKnees]

One of the reasons you go to university is to learn to critically evaluate differing sources of information and come to reasoned conclusions. Not necessarily to take the most simplistic or self interest point of view.

Well said Mithras, although in reality obviously the skills of critical thinking are not being well learnt, judging by some people's inability to take part in rational discussion without taking it all very personally and claiming that all those who disagree and question are 'bashing' the public sector!

It's just the same old stuff trotted out.

 

[cptrayes]

You know I do wonder why i bothered to go to uni and getting an education if its apparantly worth nothing..

Nursecroft from your posts on this thread and the Clarkson one it is clear that you have the most ALMIGHTY chip on your shoulder about being graduate educated.

Are you aware of how many people sitting on tills in shops and serving fries in Macdonalds have degrees?

To be honest, I am beginning to wonder if your real problem is that you have realised that you have joined a profession which has been artificially inflated to require a degree to enter it. Perhaps you have begun to understand that 5 O-levels and vocational training, which was previously the entry point, was quite qualified enough to do a non-specialist SRN job well?

If not, then what on earth IS your problem that you keep on and on and on banging on about the fact that you have a degree? SO WHAT? It means NOTHING. There are hundreds of thousands of people as well gualified as you doing much worse jobs. There are hundreds of thousands of people much less qualified than you earning much more than you ever will.

I feel very sorry for your generation that you have been hoodwinked into thinking that getting a degree guaranteed you a lot of money and a great job. I see my friends kids running up massive debts to end up with a BA in business admin doing the same clerical job that they could have started at 18. It is the biggest deceit that has ever been perpetrated on young people in the name of education.

Get used to it!

 

[nursecroft]

One of the reasons you go to university is to learn to critically evaluate differing sources of information and come to reasoned conclusions. Not necessarily to take the most simplistic or self interest point of view.

I have no problem with nurses - I do have a problem with a bloated, inefficient public sector, unecessary layers of underperforming middle management and lazy working practices. I've been a solicitor in both public and private practise - in the latter, the stress is unbelievable, as not only do you have to commonly work 6 days a week for no overtime and 12 hour days, you are also expected to bring in new business! (and no benefits and pensions). In the public sector, my workload was so tiny as to barely occupy a 1/4 of my day, and the pension provision incredibly generous compared to the private sector - when I left after just over a year, I got a few thousand back after surrendering my pension!

You know what I'm leaving this subject before i say something i shouldn't, you are incrediably rude and have just insulted every nurse that works their backsides of for other people, the amount of overtime i do unpaid is enormace, you don't know me, you don't know what is is like to work as a nurse and you get paid far more than i do. I never said private sector workers don't work hard and i never insulted any private sector workers calling them inefficent and lazy!! Your attitude is absolutely disgusting. How dare you tell me I don't do my job properly, we are very understaffed and every nurse in my team works their backsides off you horrible woman.

 

[nursecroft]

Nursecroft from your posts on this thread and the Clarkson one it is clear that you have the most ALMIGHTY chip on your shoulder about being graduate educated.

Are you aware of how many people sitting on tills in shops and serving fries in Macdonalds have degrees?

To be honest, I am beginning to wonder if your real problem is that you have realised that you have joined a profession which has been artificially inflated to require a degree to enter it. Perhaps you have begun to understand that 5 O-levels and vocational training, which was previously the entry point, was quite qualified enough to do a non-specialist SRN job well?

If not, then what on earth IS your problem that you keep on and on and on banging on about the fact that you have a degree? SO WHAT? It means NOTHING. There are hundreds of thousands of people as well gualified as you doing much worse jobs. There are hundreds of thousands of people much less qualified than you earning much more than you ever will.

I feel very sorry for your generation that you have been hoodwinked into thinking that getting a degree guaranteed you a lot of money and a great job. I see my friends kids running up massive debts to end up with a BA in business admin doing the same clerical job that they could have started at 18. It is the biggest deceit that has ever been perpetrated on young people in the name of education.

Get used to it!

To be honest I really could not care less what you think of me as I don't particulary think you are a very nice person. I do not have a chip on my shoulder at all, i do believe that people who work hard to get an education should be paid more than someone that doesn't bother and works behind a counter in a shop, that is my opinion, its up to them if they want to go that route, i've nothing against it. You seem to be the one with the chip on their shoulder, writing in capitals and insulting public workers.

You seem to think nurses have no value at all from your post and that our job has been inflated to have a degree that we don't really need, well thank you very much.

I will not be coming back hear to read your reply for fear of telling you exactly what i think of you. Thank god not everyone is like you.

I'll leave you bitchy girls to it

 

[fburton]

The privatre sector creates "value". Banks print "money". The two are very different things and far too complex, I think, for this discussion where most people understand what we mean by "money" in relation to paying taxes.

This is all very interesting, but I have a few questions... Does everyone in the private sector create value? Clearly people who make things do, but what about the people who manage them? Or people who teach or train them how to make things? Or transport them to and from their place of work? Or who look after them when they get sick (assuming private sector healthcare)? Or who simply retail the things made by others? Or who look after and/or invest the money earned by those who make things? Or who profit from legal disputes between people who make things? Do all these private sector workers create value? And if they do, how does this "value" differ from exactly the same services offered by public sector equivalents?

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

I can answer the private sector being sick - the reason a lot of companies provide private healthcare - which is a taxable benefit and compulsory for some roles - is because in the event of illness their employees can be seen and treated and quickly as possible so their sick leave is kept to an absolute minimum instead of months of waiting to be seen on the NHS with the inevitable waiting around in clinics to see various doctors and then to be referred for x-rays etc. In the private hospitals you make an appointment get seen at the alloted time as well as being able to make appointments which suit your work hours. No waiting around so you are back at work asap that is what the private sector wants - employees at work being productive

Of course by using the private medical facilities they are also relieving some of the pressure in the NHS and making space for another person who needs to use the NHS

 

[cptrayes]

I do not have a chip on my shoulder at all, i do believe that people who work hard to get an education should be paid more than someone that doesn't bother and works behind a counter in a shop, that is my opinion, its up to them if they want to go that route, i've nothing against it.

You think the CHOOSE to be serving fries with a Degree level education?

Jesus you really aren't living in the real world, are you sweetheart?

 

[cptrayes]

This is all very interesting, but I have a few questions... Does everyone in the private sector create value?

If we mean "are they paying to run the public sector" then unless they work exclusively on Public Sector work or their company is illegally trading insolvent,

yes.

Clearly people who make things do, but what about the people who manage them? Or people who teach or train them how to make things? Or transport them to and from their place of work? Or who look after them when they get sick (assuming private sector healthcare)? Or who simply retail the things made by others? Or who look after and/or invest the money earned by those who make things? Or who profit from legal disputes between people who make things? Do all these private sector workers create value? And if they do, how does this "value" differ from exactly the same services offered by public sector equivalents?

All the people you mention contribute to a process where something is taken which costs amount "x" and sold it to someone else for amount "x=y" and the difference between x and y is either taked itself at a corporate level or paid to employees/shareholders and taxed as income.

A nurse's time is taken and charged to the taxpayer at cost through tax.
Capital equipment and us of buildings are is charged at cost through tax.
Health care is free at point of use, except prescriptions which are loss making overall and the balance is charged at cost through tax.

The easiest way to see the contribution of public and private and compare is to look at a private hospital and a public one.

Heart bypass operations are free on the NHS. In a private hospital, if you are not insured, you will pay around £20,000 from start to finish. This figure is arrived at by the hospital adding up what it cost them to provide the operation and adding their profit to the top of that sum.


In the context of your use "value" has NO indication of social worth.

Ill repeat that, because some people aren't hearing it.

IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS POST "VALUE" HAS NO NO NO NO INDICATION OF SOCIAL WORTH.

Clearly in the example above, both the public and the private sector nurses have done the same job and are equally to be admired. However, the work of one contributes to the funding of the public sector by the payment of tax on the profit and the other does not, it is wholly a cost to the taxpayer.

 

[BeesKnees]

i do believe that people who work hard to get an education should be paid more than someone that doesn't bother and works behind a counter in a shop, that is my opinion, its up to them if they want to go that route

Seriously, can you hear yourself?! and you wonder why people are criticising you?

Yes some people opt not to go into higher education, many more are born into family situations that do not assist them to make the best of the opportunities available to them.

For those of us lucky to be encouraged to do a degree, many end up working behind that shop counter. I did. I graduated in 1992 into the last recession with a very high 2.1 ( I narrowly missed a first). I assumed I'd get a good job, but instead I worked as a cleaner and a shop assistant in order to earn money.

SantaPaws is right. The reason your journey has been smoother is not that you have a Degree. It is because you did a vocational subject for a job that you could arguably have done just as well ( some would argue better) without the
degree.

Your dismissive attitude to other people does you a disservice.

 

[paddy555]

I have no problem with nurses - I do have a problem with a bloated, inefficient public sector, unecessary layers of underperforming middle management and lazy working practices. I've been a solicitor in both public and private practise - in the latter, the stress is unbelievable, as not only do you have to commonly work 6 days a week for no overtime and 12 hour days, you are also expected to bring in new business! (and no benefits and pensions). In the public sector, my workload was so tiny as to barely occupy a 1/4 of my day, and the pension provision incredibly generous compared to the private sector - when I left after just over a year, I got a few thousand back after surrendering my pension!

as an ex civil servant of many years I have to agree with this. (this is the civil service, I am not in a position to comment about the NHS).
It is bloated and inefficient but it is also understaffed. The staff are not doing jobs that the public actually want ie. dealing with their queries. The staff that do deal with the queries are often not well enough trained. The obvious area that comes to mind is HMRC helplines. Many backroom HMRC staff are very well trained however the ones deployed on helplines simply haven't had the necessary comprehensive training to be effective. I know this as a result of spending rather a lot of time dealing with them, complaining about them and being made a small compensation payment recently in view of their poor service.

Suprisingly there is a lot of stress in the civil service workforce. It is caused not by overwork but by totally inefficient senior, and to some extent, middle management. Staff are not allowed to take responsibility and initiative for their work and ideas. It is not the same stress as found in some areas of the private sector but it is problematical.

Stress such as having to bring in new fee paying client's and having to allocate time spent on cases does not of course exist. However there is considerable stress in the call centres due to the working practices employed.

If senior management would only get their act together then the bloated and underperforming services could be made into efficient public services with a far more contented workforce. It would still be costly but at least it would be a lot more efficient and provide value for money. Customers would be happier with a prompt and efficient service, improved collection of outstanding revenues would help the treasury as would enhanced action on non compliance and fraud by the public.

The problem is that few civil service managers are actually born "managers and leaders of staff". The other problem is that many, especially senior management, have little idea of the work their staff do nor even of the work required to be done.

As for the pensions then the gravy train has run it's course. It was nice while it lasted but the real world beckons. It wasn't always like that and I remember quite a few years ago that the pensions did not seem particuarly exceptional when compared to the private sector. In my father's generation his private sector pension made my civil service one pale into insignificance. Now though things have changed and I think it will be a long time before the "good times" return.
It may have been better if action had been taken 10 years ago when it became obvious that the situation was not sustainable.

 

[perfect11s]

You know what I'm leaving this subject before i say something i shouldn't, you are incrediably rude and have just insulted every nurse that works their backsides of for other people, the amount of overtime i do unpaid is enormace, you don't know me, you don't know what is is like to work as a nurse and you get paid far more than i do. I never said private sector workers don't work hard and i never insulted any private sector workers calling them inefficent and lazy!! Your attitude is absolutely disgusting. How dare you tell me I don't do my job properly, we are very understaffed and every nurse in my team works their backsides off you horrible woman.

What a petulant outburst!! if this is how you respond to a well reasoned and fair post then the fact you say you are caring for the sick worries me ...

 

[BeesKnees]

Suprisingly there is a lot of stress in the civil service workforce. It is caused not by overwork but by totally inefficient senior, and to some extent, middle management. Staff are not allowed to take responsibility and initiative for their work and ideas. It is not the same stress as found in some areas of the private sector but it is problematical. .

It's interesting you say this. I spent 4 years in adult education and found them so stressful it made me leave. It wasn't the work, the pay, the pension, which were all very good, but the public sector bureaucracy and crappy management, as well as government dictats that we had no control over.

I wonder if the focus on pay and pensions amongst public sector workers is actually a distraction from the real causes of their stress. They feel they don't have any control over much of their work, but they can take action over perceived unfairness in pay and pensions.

 

[Queenbee87]

I have no problem with nurses - I do have a problem with a bloated, inefficient public sector, unecessary layers of underperforming middle management and lazy working practices. I've been a solicitor in both public and private practise - in the latter, the stress is unbelievable, as not only do you have to commonly work 6 days a week for no overtime and 12 hour days, you are also expected to bring in new business! (and no benefits and pensions). In the public sector, my workload was so tiny as to barely occupy a 1/4 of my day, and the pension provision incredibly generous compared to the private sector - when I left after just over a year, I got a few thousand back after surrendering my pension!

Nursecroft- I think you may have misread/misunderstood Mithras' post. I think she meant that there are many positions in the public sector in general that aren't strictly necessary, such as some middle management jobs. I don't think she has disputed that nurses work hard at all, just that there are quite a few inefficiencies within the public sector. I think most people recognise that these problems are not the fault of the "front line" staff....

From my studies (very basic economic bits), public sectors can be inefficient and not as cost effective as they could be due to lack of competition.

This is not a criticism of nurses.

Mithras was talking about her experience of working in the public sector which, as a solicitor is obviously going to have been different to yours as a nurse.

You know what I'm leaving this subject before i say something i shouldn't, you are incrediably rude and have just insulted every nurse that works their backsides of for other people, the amount of overtime i do unpaid is enormace, you don't know me, you don't know what is is like to work as a nurse and you get paid far more than i do. I never said private sector workers don't work hard and i never insulted any private sector workers calling them inefficent and lazy!! Your attitude is absolutely disgusting. How dare you tell me I don't do my job properly, we are very understaffed and every nurse in my team works their backsides off you horrible woman.

 

[Mithras]

You know what I'm leaving this subject before i say something i shouldn't, you are incrediably rude and have just insulted every nurse that works their backsides of for other people, the amount of overtime i do unpaid is enormace, you don't know me, you don't know what is is like to work as a nurse and you get paid far more than i do. I never said private sector workers don't work hard and i never insulted any private sector workers calling them inefficent and lazy!! Your attitude is absolutely disgusting. How dare you tell me I don't do my job properly, we are very understaffed and every nurse in my team works their backsides off you horrible woman.

I would agree with you had I said what you claim I had - unfortunately you have misread my post. I did absolutely the opposite of what you have just accused me of.

And sorry to nit pick, but "enormace" - really? Surely some degree of accuracy is a pre-requisite.

I agree with the poster who commented on unnecessary degrees, btw.

 

[perfect11s]

I agree with the poster who commented on unnecessary degrees, btw.

Yes!!! I am of an age that if you got a degree it realy ment something and you were clever, not like now where every ****** local pollytecnic is now called a university and gives degrees out it seems to anyone who can get there knuckes of the ground and pick up a pen..

 

[nursecroft]

I would agree with you had I said what you claim I had - unfortunately you have misread my post. I did absolutely the opposite of what you have just accused me of.

And sorry to nit pick, but "enormace" - really? Surely some degree of accuracy is a pre-requisite.

I agree with the poster who commented on unnecessary degrees, btw.

I had a pm from a nice a member and I'm sorry I did misread your post, its just incrediably frustrating and upsetting when you've worked hard at uni and in your career to be told basically you are worthless. I worked very hard for my degree.

Like i said I apologise for mis-reading your post but I don't take anything else back, I am a very good nurse, I'm proud of what I do and if some people here don't like what i have to say thats their problem.

I know I do a good job and I love looking after my patients. For the odd few nasty people i have to deal with there are many many more wonderfully brave, amazing patients I have the privilidge of knowing and looking after at work.

I only came back to apologise, won't be back again as can't stand being run down on here anymore by such bitter nasty women. I wouldn't waste your time replyig either as you are now on my ignore list.

 

[Mrs B]

I had a pm from a nice a member and I'm sorry I did misread your post, its just incrediably frustrating and upsetting when you've worked hard at uni and in your career to be told basically you are worthless.

Like i said I apologise for mis-reading your post but I don't take anything else back, I am a very good nurse, I'm proud of what I do and if some people here don't like what i have to say thats their problem.

I know I do a good job and I love looking after my patients. For the odd few nasty people i have to deal with there are many many more wonderfully brave, amazing patients I have the privilidge of knowing and looking after at work.

I only came back to apologise, won't be back again as can't stand being run down on here anymore by such bitter nasty women.

So actually, you came back to 'apologise' for mis-reading the post of a 'bitter, nasty woman', then having issued that apology, you still throw your teddies out of your pram and flounce off?

Having read back over your posts and the replies, I'd say that 1) if you do have a degree, then written English wasn't part of it, 2) you have totally misunderstood the entire thread to this point and 3) the chip on your shoulder is alive, well and in need of tomato ketchup.

(ETA the fact that each time after you've said you are leaving it's obvious you are still 'on-line', rather takes the wind out of your 'flounce'!)

 

[nursecroft]

So actually, you came back to 'apologise' for mis-reading the post of a 'bitter, nasty woman', then having issued that apology, you still throw your teddies out of your pram and flounce off?

Having read back over your posts and the replies, I'd say that 1) if you do have a degree, then written English wasn't part of it, 2) you have totally misunderstood the entire thread to this point and 3) the chip on your shoulder is alive, well and in need of tomato ketchup.

(ETA the fact that each time after you've said you are leaving it's obvious you are still 'on-line', rather takes the wind out of your 'flounce'!)

Why do you have to be so bitchy and nasty? I apologised for mis-reading that members post. I am writing quickly on a forum not writing an english essay there is no need to be so rude. I don't really appreciate being told my degree is un-neccessary, i hardly see how I have missed the point of the thead. I simply stated my opinion and got a lot of nasty replys from a few that think public workers are all muppets. I am online looking at other threads and trust me this is my last reply, i'm not flouncing i am human and all these insults actually do hurt and I'm really quite sick of being attacked. My ignore list is growing!!

Me and my chip are off to nicer pastures!!!! ....Sorry 'my chip and I:' rolleyes: