The Xmas Furry
Old Timer
Measles - if only more employers in this industry were like you!
Good luck with the new groom, am sure she will really appreciate your yard & working there
Rant! Does Nobody want to work with horses anymore??!
- Thread starter Cuppatea
- Start date
Measles - if only more employers in this industry were like you!
Good luck with the new groom, am sure she will really appreciate your yard & working there
armchair_rider
Well-Known Member
One of the things that always strikes me as a problem is the lack of career progression. Most careers do offer genuine chances of promotion and tangible benefits to that promotion - more money, fewer hours, more perks. Horses... not so much
windand rain
Well-Known Member
And just to put another point to employees as well as employers many young horsey people now go to college or university to study equine studies and come out with degrees They expect to receive graduate pay for their educational qualifications Sadly some are theory heavy with little or no practical experience.
I offered free riding to one in her second year to keep my patent safe native pony ticking over and having a bit of fun offered trips to shows all expenses paid lessons and no work. She came once and didnt know how to keep the pony forward and interested, hadnt a clue how to do leg yielding and turns on the forehand and had to have a foot soldier to hack round an enclosed "village" with hardly any traffic and lots of foot paths.
I was kind of pleased she didnt come back
Would love this particular pony to have some fun she loves to jump run have fun and is a sweetheart but she spend all her time just poddling around with an 8 year old beginner rider she is so bored. But I concede I cant afford to pay someone to do it. She will have to retire I suppose and still potter about with the kids
I offered free riding to one in her second year to keep my patent safe native pony ticking over and having a bit of fun offered trips to shows all expenses paid lessons and no work. She came once and didnt know how to keep the pony forward and interested, hadnt a clue how to do leg yielding and turns on the forehand and had to have a foot soldier to hack round an enclosed "village" with hardly any traffic and lots of foot paths.
I was kind of pleased she didnt come back
Would love this particular pony to have some fun she loves to jump run have fun and is a sweetheart but she spend all her time just poddling around with an 8 year old beginner rider she is so bored. But I concede I cant afford to pay someone to do it. She will have to retire I suppose and still potter about with the kids
ridefast
Well-Known Member
Sometimes just treating the worker with some respect is all that's needed - and that costs the employer nothing
So true, I do it for love, the money isn't great but I love the horses. However I won't stand to be made to feel like **** when I work hard all weathers, rarely take any time off sick unless I actually cannot stand. Horsey employers do have a reputation and I've had more with the bad reputation than nice ones. I don't understand why it's so hard to make grooms feel good about themselves, instead of running them down.
alfirules
Well-Known Member
Agree with this, I've worked with horses pretty much since i left school, (23 now) and i don't think i would do anything else because i enjoy it and like to have an active lifestyle.
However, i've just left the eventing yard i worked on for a couple of years because i was working 7 days a week, bloody long hours (in the event season sometimes started as early as 5 AM and didnt get back until 10PM), i'm pleased to say i've never taken a day off sick, ever, and i'm always on time,etc. Yet the person i worked for was rude and always expected me to do more and more and on a couple of occasions i flipped out at her, which is out of character for me, and i realise now it's because i was completely run into the ground and couldn't take any more.
I wasn't payed by the hour, just a small amount each week with living and keep of my horse included, and i loved the yard and the experience i gained from it. But when it came down to it I am now in debt and felt like i was working so hard yet financially getting no better off. So i'm now just doing a family yard with set hours, more than double the pay, 6 day week and a cottage and bills paid for.
But i just don't understand why my previous employer could be so ungrateful, I think she could have made more of an effort considering i gave up all my time for her. It definitely is enough to put you off working with horses!
horsesatemymoney
Well-Known Member
That is bad, but think about it another way- they've now lost a good worker, so actually have shot themselves in the foot by treating you badly.
SO1
Well-Known Member
I don't think it is just the money - I work in an industry where we have interns who work for free for months on end and we never have any problem getting them. There are a lot of industries where people work long hours for low pay or none to start off with especially in the arts and fashion. Personally I don't agree with this I have to say.
I think there are lots of issues. Many equestrian employers have no people management training or skills, they don't know to motivate staff who are under performing or who are ambitious and want to learn more and take on more responsibility. Working with horses often seems to be seen as a vocation not just a job and the career prospects are not that good, promotion is hard to come by and even outstanding performers are not always appreciated. As others have said working with horses is also working with people such as owners and that can be tricky as well, TBH I think it is difficult to build an equine business if you don't like working with people.
People need to be have at least one of decent paid, treated nicely and have a good working enviroment or recieving training to achieve one of their goals and think they are capable of doing the job, to consider applying for a job and I think a lot of equine employers are lacking on all accounts sadly which puts people off. The average person going to the job centre would be capable of working in a shop or office but very few even with training would be capable of breaking and schooling a horse which is probably why there have not been many applicants, you would have more if it was basic horse care only.
I think where it does work well when YO have some outside industry knowledge of running a business/managing people and they work as a team and where employers give grooms a change to put forward ideas and express opinions/suggest improvements as well as providing learning opportunities. If grooms take on extra responsibility or care for larger numbers of horses than normal or go beyond what is expected and as a result of this the business does better then they should recieve recognition for this.
The old fashioned attitude of "groom should feel lucky to be working for me" therefore I can treat them with little respect and kindness is outdated now.
If YO can't afford to pay above the minimum wage and are ACTUALLY paying for every hour worked and struggling to keep staff then maybe they need to look at other ways of making the workplace a good place to work, maybe even consult with employees to find out how things could be improved to make it a better place to work without paying more money.
I think there are lots of issues. Many equestrian employers have no people management training or skills, they don't know to motivate staff who are under performing or who are ambitious and want to learn more and take on more responsibility. Working with horses often seems to be seen as a vocation not just a job and the career prospects are not that good, promotion is hard to come by and even outstanding performers are not always appreciated. As others have said working with horses is also working with people such as owners and that can be tricky as well, TBH I think it is difficult to build an equine business if you don't like working with people.
People need to be have at least one of decent paid, treated nicely and have a good working enviroment or recieving training to achieve one of their goals and think they are capable of doing the job, to consider applying for a job and I think a lot of equine employers are lacking on all accounts sadly which puts people off. The average person going to the job centre would be capable of working in a shop or office but very few even with training would be capable of breaking and schooling a horse which is probably why there have not been many applicants, you would have more if it was basic horse care only.
I think where it does work well when YO have some outside industry knowledge of running a business/managing people and they work as a team and where employers give grooms a change to put forward ideas and express opinions/suggest improvements as well as providing learning opportunities. If grooms take on extra responsibility or care for larger numbers of horses than normal or go beyond what is expected and as a result of this the business does better then they should recieve recognition for this.
The old fashioned attitude of "groom should feel lucky to be working for me" therefore I can treat them with little respect and kindness is outdated now.
If YO can't afford to pay above the minimum wage and are ACTUALLY paying for every hour worked and struggling to keep staff then maybe they need to look at other ways of making the workplace a good place to work, maybe even consult with employees to find out how things could be improved to make it a better place to work without paying more money.
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CallieAndFrankie
Well-Known Member
I do where are you
Patterdale
Well-Known Member
I think you can work with horses if you get lucky.
My last job before I went freelance was as a head groom for a private family event yard.
I got 16k, 32 days holiday, own horse, nice cottage and use of the trailer. 5 day week, 8-5, paid overtime and weekends off.
However in return for that I'm a BHSAI, work hard, had a lot of competition experience, and (even if I say so myself
) ride very well.
I left this job to go freelance with their full support and had lots of work, but had to give it up when I got married and moved away.
I think good horse jobs are out there, but you have to be a hard worker, dedicated, and really look for them.
My last job before I went freelance was as a head groom for a private family event yard.
I got 16k, 32 days holiday, own horse, nice cottage and use of the trailer. 5 day week, 8-5, paid overtime and weekends off.
However in return for that I'm a BHSAI, work hard, had a lot of competition experience, and (even if I say so myself
) ride very well. I left this job to go freelance with their full support and had lots of work, but had to give it up when I got married and moved away.
I think good horse jobs are out there, but you have to be a hard worker, dedicated, and really look for them.
meandmyself
Well-Known Member
I was looking at horse jobs earlier this year. I found one that sounded promising and emailed about it, asking about hours, wages etc.
Was told that that hours varied, but it would be about 50 hours a week. Wage was £70/week but if I wanted to live in, they'd take £15 a week off for utilities. The accommodation was a small caravan.
When I said that the wage was far too low to live on, I was told 'well, you can always take a second job in the village.'
£70/week wouldn't even pay for my car, let alone anything else. I'm not sure how they're getting away with it.
Was told that that hours varied, but it would be about 50 hours a week. Wage was £70/week but if I wanted to live in, they'd take £15 a week off for utilities. The accommodation was a small caravan.
When I said that the wage was far too low to live on, I was told 'well, you can always take a second job in the village.'
£70/week wouldn't even pay for my car, let alone anything else. I'm not sure how they're getting away with it.
Zargon_91
Well-Known Member
OP have you thought about advertising for a working pupil??
Nightmare before Christmas
Well-Known Member
There is no money in it and you get treated like crap. From experience. I would love to work for a top sj doing stable, riding and show work with a chance to further my show jumping but I am yet to fin that place
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
It just doesnt pay enough for whats involved.
I went to a trial for a local riding school and what the owner expected for her money was ridiculous! I worked on a livery yard for ten years from a young teen to young adult and I loved it but it just didnt pay enough to pay the bills.
I would love to work with horses but the pay just doesnt cover the bills and also you get some really weird YO's as well
Not saying yours is but some horsey people are WIERD!
I went to a trial for a local riding school and what the owner expected for her money was ridiculous! I worked on a livery yard for ten years from a young teen to young adult and I loved it but it just didnt pay enough to pay the bills.
I would love to work with horses but the pay just doesnt cover the bills and also you get some really weird YO's as well
Not saying yours is but some horsey people are WIERD!
Cuppatea
Well-Known Member
Ive been reading all the replies on here in amazement. Im not sure how or why nearly everyone has just assumed that we are offering a pittance for some pretty hard work when i have never mentioned how much we pay or what exactly weare asking of people.
My post was to have a rant that we couldnt seem to find staff, not to ask people to slam what they believe might be in our advert.
Thankyou Navaho and Jesstinsel for your comments though!
For those that have said we need to offer more training, OH was head lad for a very well known olympic medallist eventer for years and competed along side him on the horses on the yard to a very high standard. We also have 2 ex olympic medallists (eventing and sj) who send horses to us and who do training clinics when they come down for us. We have horses that weare willing to hand over to staff to have as 'their' projects and will have bonus' when they are sold.Do we really need to offer more training???
My post was to have a rant that we couldnt seem to find staff, not to ask people to slam what they believe might be in our advert.
Thankyou Navaho and Jesstinsel for your comments though!
For those that have said we need to offer more training, OH was head lad for a very well known olympic medallist eventer for years and competed along side him on the horses on the yard to a very high standard. We also have 2 ex olympic medallists (eventing and sj) who send horses to us and who do training clinics when they come down for us. We have horses that weare willing to hand over to staff to have as 'their' projects and will have bonus' when they are sold.Do we really need to offer more training???
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
Your thread question was (why) does nobody want to work with horses anymore?
All the replies I read answered why in the many different ways, nobody slammed your yard at all from what I can see
All the replies I read answered why in the many different ways, nobody slammed your yard at all from what I can see
Marydoll
Well-Known Member
I answered your question as to why i felt no one wanted to work with horses any more, nothing was directed at you or your yard, i dont know you
It was an answer to a question you asked nothing more
It was an answer to a question you asked nothing more
Oberon
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone meant to offend you
. Just sharing insights as to why the search for decent staff in the horse world is paved with frustration Hell - you'd have me if you offered to make me a brew