Rant re running a small livery yard :)

[Rowreach]

Jesus ! Im only putting in what happens at my yard! No need to jump on my posts 🙄 i wouldnt have horses if i couldnt do it myself, isnt much point IMO

Really? Lots of people have horses and need some extra help at times though. That doesn't make horse ownership pointless IMO. Your post read very much as though you would resent paying for the service

 

[Rowreach]

yeah me too, I can't believe that anyone can think it's a reasonable way to behave. The horse world does attract some pretty weird folk. I can't stand that kind of random decision making.

My yard is almost unaffordable for me but it runs like clockwork and I am grateful to be out of the madness of previous places. The YO lays down the law and though it can seem inflexible at times, everyone knows where they stand. I get the impression he's had the same rules for the last 25 years If you don't like it you're free to leave on the whole it works very well.

I get the impression that if someone asked him to rent a box for half the price he'd just laugh in their face while escorting them down the drive

That's the way I ran mine (for 25 years ) and I had some fantastic liveries. The less fantastic ones who didn't like it (or me) didn't come/stay. I did however avoid diy-ers for the most part.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Absolutely not lol id happily pay for help but if i did need it id make sure it was at a yard that offered it as a service, we dont and its just liveries that offer it as an extra

 

[milliepops]

That's the way I ran mine (for 25 years ) and I had some fantastic liveries. The less fantastic ones who didn't like it (or me) didn't come/stay. I did however avoid diy-ers for the most part.

Yeah a couple of DIYs (we're all assisted DIY really to keep the whole yard on the same routine as the full liveries) have come and gone since I've been here, didn't like the strict regime. My YO is a bit of a character but tbh they way he is upfront about the rules is what makes it all run so well. The full liveries are all very long term clients so it's clearly working. I think it's water off a duck's back when someone leaves. I do admire the strength of character!

FWIW I used to be adamant that I wouldn't keep horses if I needed help to do them but tbh i appreciate having sensible and reliable help on site. Never have to worry about there being no one to help out if I am in a fix.
I could do mine all myself if I wanted to but it allows me to start work earlier and only go to the yard once a day. I still have the ones in the field at home to do myself, so it's not like I don't get my hands dirty

 

[be positive]

I rarely take on full DIY's, I try and do assisted so all are in the same routine especially over winter when I hate to see horses stuck in for hours waiting for owners to arrive to turn out or trashing the fields waiting to come in, having some control means they get out every day and come in before dark which has always suited working owners as they can just come each evening to do their jobs and catch up a bit at the weekends when they have more time.

My reason for posting is I do now have a full DIY owner and the horses came in at night on Fri, owner turned up at 11.30 Sun, and as I type, getting on for 9.30, has not yet been this morning, horses have run out of hay or trampled what is left into their beds, they looked expectantly at me earlier and have been ignored but it does not sit well with me and I have no idea when they will turn up.
I did not really set any 'rules' when they came because I expected at least the basics to be done to a certain standard but have so far been shocked on many counts during their time here over the summer and this is possibly the last straw, they are members on here so may read this so am not going to say any more other than if they do read it maybe they will have a rethink on how they plan to manage the rest of the winter, leaving them out is not an option at the moment because I cannot accommodate them all together in one field, theirs will not cope with 24/7 , they are far too tricky to split up so they join mine and I am not swapping mine about so they can have another field to trash.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Couldn’t agree more! My yard offers beautiful American barn stabling, brand new 40 x 40 sand and fibre arena with mirrors, all day turnout, 24 hr in summer, lots of off road riding, plus lots more all for the princely sum of £31 pw! Struggle to fill boxes sometimes, luckily they rarely come up, but like you I’ve noticed a big shift recently. With the cost of my insurance rising yearly, fencing, fertiliser, weed killers etc etc etc, it’s becoming more and more difficult to justify keeping my yard going. Only for the fact we make our own hay, I would already be closed long ago. YO’s shouldn’t have to fund someone else’s hobby 😏

Then don’t. Your yard sounds lovely but obviously and also sadly the demand for what you offer in the local market you are in isn’t either wanted, needed or can be afforded. Where I am you’d probably be full at around £70 plus more a month and have a waiting list if you had those facilities AND were a pleasant yard to be on.

Last yard I was on had good facilities and lots of promises but the YO was a nightmare. The turnover was obvious on both staff and liveries as she was always advertising for both. Even additional facilities didn’t make up for her attitude.

 

[Auslander]

The YO lays down the law and though it can seem inflexible at times, everyone knows where they stand. I get the impression he's had the same rules for the last 25 years If you don't like it you're free to leave on the whole it works very well.

I get the impression that if someone asked him to rent a box for half the price he'd just laugh in their face while escorting them down the drive

I think your YO is a male version of me. I've had a few liveries who didn't like the fact that I run a tight ship, but none of my rules are unreasonable, and everyone here is happy to follow them. It keeps the place running smoothly, and looking tidy - and abiding by them stops me being moany - nobody loves moany me!
I've had a livery leave recently because she didn't want to do her share at weekends, and she made the others miserable by stomping round with a face like thunder, creating a horrible atmosphere. She was furious when I called her out on her behaviour, and departed in high dudgeon. I was absolutely thrilled to see the back of her! She took two new feedbuckets with her, left her stable unmucked out, her field un poo picked, and the muckheap like a ski slope - I hope it made her feel better!

 

[milliepops]

I think your YO is a male version of me. I've had a few liveries who didn't like the fact that I run a tight ship, but none of my rules are unreasonable, and everyone here is happy to follow them. It keeps the place running smoothly, and looking tidy - and abiding by them stops me being moany - nobody loves moany me!

I can't tell you what a breath of fresh air it is. Everyone has to do the same things, everyone has the same terms, everyone knows exactly what's what.
I have been on so many yards where different people have different rules/privileges which breeds discontent or where the YO is too weak willed to get people into line but then complains about their clients. I accept it's not a skillset everyone is born with but it really seems to be one worth learning!

 

[pixie]

Ugh! I had a DIYer who thought nothing of coming up at 1PM to turn out her horses. They would have empty haynets when I was up doing the other horses at 6AM before I went to work. Ex livery now, for many other reasons too! After she left - stables and field left mucky, a few items were also missing...
Bad liveries tend to not just be rubbish in just one way. They tend to be late payers, lazy about doing chores, late to see to their horses etc....
Bad liveries are just not worth the hassle. I'd rather have empty stables than bad liveries causing stress and bad atmosphere...

 

[chocolategirl]

W

And let me give you the other side of the coin. I pay £150 for DIY. The other yards in the area charge between £20 and £40 a week, for one with the facilities etc I have it would usually be £25. I pay £150 because I was hoping paying more would get a better service. It does not. The school is unusable as its not maintained. I was harrowing it daily and was hand weeding it to try and get it usable but the tractor broke and wasnt repaired so I had to stop and now its more weedy and grassy than the field. In the summer I repaired all the gates. The posts are loose and need redoing, so limited amount I could do. I now cant physically drag my field gate open and need help.

The permiter post and rail is snapped and broken. I offered to fix it if rails were bought and was told not to bother. I was made to drag half a shed wall across and dump it in a gap in the fence where the horses were getting out into next door. I've now electric fenced it off but mine and another horse have come in with puncture wounds since. The track is so potholed and damaged I can just about get my 4x4 down there, the other liveries walk after leaving their car dumped on a verge. The roof of the stables caved in 2 weeks ago. One of the other liveries fixed it at the weekend as it wasnt being done. The yard owner has hassled me and hassled me to build her a field shelter for her horses. I'm crippled with back and leg damage, there is no way I can do it. Its not a DIY job. And its not even for my blumming horse to use!

I topped and harrowed the fields with a tiny tractor thats more like a ride on lawnmover. That was fun! I am not supposed to be responsible for any of this, but if I hadnt done it, it wouldnt be done.

There are now 8 horses on 10 acres of clay. YO announced yesterday that our horses are now in until spring with an hours turnout a day. Hers are being moved into our field and left out 24/7 and 1 maybe 2 grass liveries are being brought in. So now my pony is going to be stuck in a leaking stable 23 out of 24 hours and then turned out for an hour into a bog. the YO has changed to small bales of hay and straw and we have to buy them off her for a 60% markup. My bill for DIY will now be £381 every 4 weeks.

So having found her other liveries, spent hours helping her back her horse, done all the maintenance and repairs and paid through the nose for it, my horse will now be stuck in. We were told at 2pm. No notice, no warning.

I left the last yard for similar reasons, although that was worse as the owner was a drunk and caused so many problems my friend was assaulted and I had to make a 999 call from the car park to get the police to come and break it up. The one before that I was assaulted by the "yard manager" as I was leaving as she wasnt able to afford the rent without my subsidy and she went mad.

I'm sure people will say I'm the issue. Perhaps I am. There are other people I know who are in similar situations.

I would happily pay more for a reasonable service. I did think about full livery but I dont want a horse to have someone else look after it. Last time I tried full livery on the recommendation of someone on here my little cob ended up dead of laminitis as they were feeding and feeding him and I couldnt get them to stop.

I am fed up to the back teeth of seeing people bashing liveries on here. You might all want to try being a livery first before you go off on one about clueless liveries and people not wanting to pay. Every single person I know would be quite happy to pay to be on a well run yard, run by a sensible professional person.

With respect, bad yards such as yours, are only in operation if people choose to stay😏 it astonishes me what some people are prepared to put up with when it comes to livery🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️ I could never run my yard like that, and I wouldn’t expect my clients to stay if I did 🤷‍♀️

 

[Barton Bounty]

@chocolategirl wish i was near you im nearly that for a stable with a leak 😂

 

[Sussexbythesea]

W

With respect, bad yards such as yours, are only in operation if people choose to stay😏 it astonishes me what some people are prepared to put up with when it comes to livery🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️ I could never run my yard like that, and I wouldn’t expect my clients to stay if I did 🤷‍♀️

Have you always had your own place? Because it sounds as if you’ve never been at the hands of a YO who have the power to do whatever they wish regardless of the horses welfare. Yes you can move but you dread what the next situation will be and whether your horse will settle if you move yet again. There’s no way of knowing until you get there what things will actually be like as opposed What the YO told you it was like. Sometimes it’s the devil you know rather than the devil you don’t.

Money doesn’t always get you a better service either, I moved from £500 a month livery to DIY on a farm estate for £150 a month at the time because the YO was a liar and I couldn’t trust them. I’ve been at my current yard 9 years and have no intention of moving until I have to. In addition we don’t have an on-site owner or yard manager and the 10 liveries get on and all look after their horses properly and keep the yard decent.

It’s bliss not having a pernickety YO or YM breathing down your neck. We just ring the office if something needs fixing or an issue arises and it’s usually sorted pretty promptly and we have a yard meeting about 3 times a year.

 

[Leo Walker]

Have you always had your own place? Because it sounds as if you’ve never been at the hands of a YO who have the power to do whatever they wish regardless of the horses welfare. Yes you can move but you dread what the next situation will be and whether your horse will settle if you move yet again. There’s no way of knowing until you get there what things will actually be like as opposed What the YO told you it was like. Sometimes it’s the devil you know rather than the devil you don’t.

Money doesn’t always get you a better service either, I moved from £500 a month livery to DIY on a farm estate for £150 a month at the time because the YO was a liar and I couldn’t trust them. I’ve been at my current yard 9 years and have no intention of moving until I have to. In addition we don’t have an on-site owner or yard manager and the 10 liveries get on and all look after their horses properly and keep the yard decent.

It’s bliss not having a pernickety YO or YM breathing down your neck. We just ring the office if something needs fixing or an issue arises and it’s usually sorted pretty promptly and we have a yard meeting about 3 times a year.

Indeed. The full livery was recommended to me by someone I thought had some sense. The second yard I was spun a line, and most people do tend to hide alcoholism. This current one I've put up with it as the horse was happy and that's whats important to me. I don't expect perfection.

I am voting with my feet and the pony is moving Saturday. So that's another months worth of livery I have lost as I will now end up paying for both places in order to get my pony out ASAP. I daren't add up how much crappy yards have cost me over the years!

At this point I would like nothing better than to give up horses, but its like a drug addiction, and I cant see anyway to survive without my pony. She keeps me sane and just about functioning.

 

[sport horse]

Not sure why there is such a sweeping, inaccurate statement at the start of this comment. Add to this a later referral to a livery as ‘stupid’ ....is there a need to be so rude? I have been on a number of livery yards in different counties in the last 20 years and the opening comment is not true of owners I have known. Perhaps it was a good move for this poster to become’livery free’ if it is found to be so distasteful.

Actually I had 3 liveries out of 6 who stayed over 20 years and we had an excellent relationship, huge respect for each other and were happy to help each other when needed. The other three had moments that were, from my point of view hell.

We are within one hour of central london, have 40 acres for 20 horses, brick built stables, walker, manege with show jumps, loose school, sand corrale, wash room, heated tea room, washing machine, good hard parking and fantastic hacking. We have ad lib hay and straw from a neighbouring farmer. Fields are post and railed. We live on site right nest to the yard.

Livery 1. Became pregnant and wanted to turn her horse away. This horse had had to have indidual turnout as it kicked other horses. I offered her to turn it out with my young horses providing it had its shoes off, for £15 per week to include all hay when needed and to include all checks. I was told this was unacceptable as she could get that for £5/week - in North Wales!! Horse did get turned away with me until after baby was born. She gave me 3 days notice that she wished it to come back in (stable had been kept available within the £15) and that she wanted horse shod on Monday. Monday was Bank Holiday so booked for Tues. 1pm Saturday I get a message horse is to have a special diet. Feed shop now shut till Tuesday!..Livery arrives Sunday and I explain that food and shoeing will be Tuesday as Bank Holiday and I am treated to a tirade of abuse that I have not sorted farrier to work on bank holiday and got feed from somewhere! The horse in question was an elderley cob and quite able to live on hay and pony nuts till Tuesday and had never before been fed this new special diet!
This livery also felt it was fine to drive over our front lawn in the dead of winter, causing foot deep ruts. When asked why she said she paid to be here so she could do what she liked.

Livery 2. Was on a 5 day serviced livery and weekends DIY. Was concerned that her horse was losing weight and quite correctly spoke to me. We upped all its food with no problem. Next weekend she comes up Sat am, turns horse out does stable and goes home. It is January, sleeting, very little grazing in field etc. I went out early for evening, having done my own horses. I return at 11pm to find this horse is still in field with soaking wet rugs and no food. Change my clothes, don wellies and go and catch horse, bring in, dry off and change rugs and feed. Next morning I ask owner where she was and if a problem why she did not ring to be told ' oh its was horrible weather, I was warm in front of the fire so I could not be bothered to come up' I questioned if this was acceptable as she was worried about its weight and he reply 'oh it does not matter if it not fed for one night'! That also takes no account of the turnout paddicks being ruined by 24 hour turnout in January. It also worries me as the lady in question was an equine physiotherapist who two weeks later asked me if I wold rent her a small yard to use for her business. I think not!!

I stress that most of the time with most of the people it was fine and they were and still are very good friends - life has moved on and they now have their own facilities. However the bad liveries certainly made life very unpleasant. I run a top class competition yard and took in a few liveries. However, the bad eggs certainly spoilt it for a time until they were weeded out and not replaced. To have people as rude and foul mouthed as they were, around your own home, hugely affects your life. It is deeply upsetting especially as we ran a service that far outstripped anything else around. To my knowledge those people never stayed in any yard more than a few months - they were here for a couple of years but it deeply affected me. I did not even want to go into my own yard when they were about and I certainly would never never again take a chance on having anyone else in my yard.

 

[chocolategirl]

Have you always had your own place? Because it sounds as if you’ve never been at the hands of a YO who have the power to do whatever they wish regardless of the horses welfare. Yes you can move but you dread what the next situation will be and whether your horse will settle if you move yet again. There’s no way of knowing until you get there what things will actually be like as opposed What the YO told you it was like. Sometimes it’s the devil you know rather than the devil you don’t.

Money doesn’t always get you a better service either, I moved from £500 a month livery to DIY on a farm estate for £150 a month at the time because the YO was a liar and I couldn’t trust them. I’ve been at my current yard 9 years and have no intention of moving until I have to. In addition we don’t have an on-site owner or yard manager and the 10 liveries get on and all look after their horses properly and keep the yard decent.

It’s bliss not having a pernickety YO or YM breathing down your neck. We just ring the office if something needs fixing or an issue arises and it’s usually sorted pretty promptly and we have a yard meeting about 3 times a year.

Nope. Been on several yards over the last 45 years. All the things I didn’t like about the yards I’ve been on, I made sure I didn’t do at my yard. I’ve been running it now for 24 years, most of my clients stay for 10-15 years plus, the ones that don’t, have either moved away from the area, bought their own land, or are just never happy wherever they go, as in serial yard hoppers 🤷‍♀️ I’m fussy who I take though as it’s my home as well as my business. I’ve had to grow a very thick skin over the years, us horsey folk can be very fickle 🤣🤣🤣

 

[blitznbobs]

Tbh I don’t see the business case for a small livery diy yard to be run “as a business” ... there isn’t enough margin that I can see. Small yards work if they are part of a private yard to supplement the owners own horses or for a bit of cash on the side, or if they are a business giving high quality but expensive full livery probably in a richer area for those who are cash rich but time poor. The only successful “businesses” that run diy yards tend to be on a really large scale. But if you can make it pay then all power to you.

 

[chaps89]

I've also been on the wrong end of bonkers YO/YM
Anything from an alcoholic who forgot to do my horse one night (swore blind I'd not asked for him to be done, also on the actual night didn't question why he wasn't in as usual) to a YO who told other liveries there was nothing wrong with my pony, I kept making things up and should sell her, to a YM who had a rule about poo picking, for all horses apart from her own and so on.

That said, I know I'm not an easy livery to have.
Hopefully me as a person is ok (keep myself to myself a bit but I'm polite, pay my bill on time always, keep everything neat and tidy and so on) but my pony is a bit tricky- metabolic so have to be careful with turnout arrangements and severe separation anxiety and will jump out of most fields she's in if a friend is being taken away.
(She used to be better, it was if she was the last one out. A summer of individual turnout has made it worse and now it's if another horse is taken out. I'm hoping she will settle once they move to the winter field with more food, and as she settles being on the yard as she's only been there a week so far. Failing that I'm damned if I know what to do with her frankly!)
Having not long moved I've ended up at a cheap yard which isn't ideal in other ways, just because it was the only place that could accommodate her/that I felt the risk of her jumping out and then getting onto a road was least, and I do really appreciate it for that. And I totally understand why for some yards we're just not the right fit for those reasons too.

I do feel for YO/YM as they really do have to deal with the insane (as BPs current post attests!) But I promise we're not all bad.

 

[milliepops]

That said, I know I'm not an easy livery to have.

This made me snigger, but only out of solidarity because I know one of mine is a tricky horse and therefore I also am probably not the easiest client in some ways. I was very pleased to find my YO is very experienced with all kinds of horses and understands that you sometimes do have to accommodate the odd ones (he even says that when they are good horses it's worth it). so while I have a pair bonded PITA horse he took my word for it when I explained her needs and therefore she's managed in a way that keeps her happy without bending any yard rules and no one is pissed off

The flip side is I keep up my end of the bargain and do everything I need to, in the way he wants things done.

 

[jules9203]

It sounds like you have a lovely set up, and that price sounds exceptionally reasonable to me - you don't happen to be Bucks/Berks/Surrey way do you?!

DIY including a bring in or turnout each day down here but no hay is £285, or including hay is £330 (2 different yards)

I just don't understand what planet people are on that they would want so much for so little. It takes skill and experience to *successfully* run a yard, never mind the physical costs attached, and to me that should be recognised both through being a nice client (hopefully!) And in remuneration.

Livery is starting to go up around here. I'd love for it not to (of course!) But I'm just more surprised that its taken so long.

Thank you xx 😁 I'm Hampshire xx

 

[jules9203]

And let me give you the other side of the coin. I pay £150 for DIY. The other yards in the area charge between £20 and £40 a week, for one with the facilities etc I have it would usually be £25. I pay £150 because I was hoping paying more would get a better service. It does not. The school is unusable as its not maintained. I was harrowing it daily and was hand weeding it to try and get it usable but the tractor broke and wasnt repaired so I had to stop and now its more weedy and grassy than the field. In the summer I repaired all the gates. The posts are loose and need redoing, so limited amount I could do. I now cant physically drag my field gate open and need help.

The permiter post and rail is snapped and broken. I offered to fix it if rails were bought and was told not to bother. I was made to drag half a shed wall across and dump it in a gap in the fence where the horses were getting out into next door. I've now electric fenced it off but mine and another horse have come in with puncture wounds since. The track is so potholed and damaged I can just about get my 4x4 down there, the other liveries walk after leaving their car dumped on a verge. The roof of the stables caved in 2 weeks ago. One of the other liveries fixed it at the weekend as it wasnt being done. The yard owner has hassled me and hassled me to build her a field shelter for her horses. I'm crippled with back and leg damage, there is no way I can do it. Its not a DIY job. And its not even for my blumming horse to use!

I topped and harrowed the fields with a tiny tractor thats more like a ride on lawnmover. That was fun! I am not supposed to be responsible for any of this, but if I hadnt done it, it wouldnt be done.

There are now 8 horses on 10 acres of clay. YO announced yesterday that our horses are now in until spring with an hours turnout a day. Hers are being moved into our field and left out 24/7 and 1 maybe 2 grass liveries are being brought in. So now my pony is going to be stuck in a leaking stable 23 out of 24 hours and then turned out for an hour into a bog. the YO has changed to small bales of hay and straw and we have to buy them off her for a 60% markup. My bill for DIY will now be £381 every 4 weeks.

So having found her other liveries, spent hours helping her back her horse, done all the maintenance and repairs and paid through the nose for it, my horse will now be stuck in. We were told at 2pm. No notice, no warning.

I left the last yard for similar reasons, although that was worse as the owner was a drunk and caused so many problems my friend was assaulted and I had to make a 999 call from the car park to get the police to come and break it up. The one before that I was assaulted by the "yard manager" as I was leaving as she wasnt able to afford the rent without my subsidy and she went mad.

I'm sure people will say I'm the issue. Perhaps I am. There are other people I know who are in similar situations.

I would happily pay more for a reasonable service. I did think about full livery but I dont want a horse to have someone else look after it. Last time I tried full livery on the recommendation of someone on here my little cob ended up dead of laminitis as they were feeding and feeding him and I couldnt get them to stop.

I am fed up to the back teeth of seeing people bashing liveries on here. You might all want to try being a livery first before you go off on one about clueless liveries and people not wanting to pay. Every single person I know would be quite happy to pay to be on a well run yard, run by a sensible professional person.

I was a livery for 10 yrs before setting up my yard
Before that I worked for people who had livery yards. So I have been on all sides. I am not just bashing diy liveries. The people on my yard are brilliant and having read your post you would be more than welcome! However there is a definite increase in people that want something for nothing, or worse at the livery yards expense

 

[SEL]

When I was yard hunting a small yard came up to rent. There is demand for DIY in the area so I did the sums - but I would have needed around £50 per box per week to just clear costs. The most expensive DIY nearby is £45 with better facilities.

If you can fill the stables at the rate you are charging OP then no is the easy answer to cheeky requests!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

OP I note that your "DIY" includes bringing out and turning-in; I'm a DIY YO - and to me, DIY means just that, DIY. For me, if a potential client wanted that, I'd say that was "Assisted DIY".

I always make it clear that what I offer is "strictly DIY". Not that I won't assist in an emergency (such as snow if livery can't get out, or other emergency) because as I live on-site, yes I will do, but it isn't something I offer on a routine basis.

Not wishing to be critical, but it might help to clarify by stating exactly what you are offering - which seems to be, to me anyway, considerably more than the classic DIY-and-get-on-with it package, and the price should in my view reflect this.

 

[Auslander]

Wrong thread!

 

[Rowreach]

I can't tell you what a breath of fresh air it is. Everyone has to do the same things, everyone has the same terms, everyone knows exactly what's what.
I have been on so many yards where different people have different rules/privileges which breeds discontent or where the YO is too weak willed to get people into line but then complains about their clients. I accept it's not a skillset everyone is born with but it really seems to be one worth learning!

To acquire that skill set you need a hide like a rhino 😄 As I found I had when a disgruntled livery was interviewed for a H&H article about terrible YOs which I featured in (I still have the article 😂 ). I'd slipped up there as this particular woman had a reputation amongst local livery yards as long as your arm, but she spun me a line and I didn't check.

I think a lot of YOs aren't firm enough day to day and so the pressure builds till they finally explode at which point they get the "batshit crazy" moniker.

The thing about good liveries is that you will bend over backwards for them because they are the most wonderful asset a yard can have.

 

[milliepops]

I think a lot of YOs aren't firm enough day to day and so the pressure builds till they finally explode at which point they get the "batshit crazy" moniker.

OMG at the H&H article! that's incredible

And yes I am sure you are right on the above. As a fellow human being I can fully understand how difficult it must be to have to be firm on things when you have clients asking to bend the rules all the time. Unfortunately it seems that letting small things slip makes it turn from a trickle of requests to a flood and before you know it everyone feels disgruntled. and then when you hit peak batshit the good ones will leave.

 

[jules9203]

OP I note that your "DIY" includes bringing out and turning-in; I'm a DIY YO - and to me, DIY means just that, DIY. For me, if a potential client wanted that, I'd say that was "Assisted DIY".

I always make it clear that what I offer is "strictly DIY". Not that I won't assist in an emergency (such as snow if livery can't get out, or other emergency) because as I live on-site, yes I will do, but it isn't something I offer on a routine basis.

Not wishing to be critical, but it might help to clarify by stating exactly what you are offering - which seems to be, to me anyway, considerably more than the classic DIY-and-get-on-with it package, and the price should in my view reflect this.

The original post says that the people asking were looking for assisted livery. My DIY is basic diy that includes hay, as I don't have the space for everyone to store small bales.