Fides
Well-Known Member
I wonder if it is due to the fact that so many who don't make the grade are PTS. Tends not to happen to TBs as the have an inherent value and are expensive to dispose of. Are greyhounds seen as expendable if they fail?
Rant - why can't greyhound breeders remove dew claws!
- Thread starter {97702}
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I wonder if it is due to the fact that so many who don't make the grade are PTS. Tends not to happen to TBs as the have an inherent value and are expensive to dispose of. Are greyhounds seen as expendable if they fail?
Amicus
Well-Known Member
Definitely an interesting ponder, I was told by a vet involved in research that they're investigating greyhounds as they don't typically get arthritis. I think they want to look at the genetic link to consider the varying predisposition to arthritis in people. Might try and follow it up and see if anythings been published on it.
One of the many reasons i'm a great admirer of greyhounds.
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
Greyhounds are one of the oldest breeds I believe and bred for hunting, as someone else said any that were not up to the mark were culled and were not allowed to breed.
Just an observation one thing I've noticed about Greyhounds they have enormous problems with their teeth, I was told this was because of the mush they were fed in kennels but I would have thought racing Greyhounds needed to be fed the very best so as to get the very best out of them. Having said that even the ones that were not raced or bred to race still had very poor teeth compared to most other breeds.
Just an observation one thing I've noticed about Greyhounds they have enormous problems with their teeth, I was told this was because of the mush they were fed in kennels but I would have thought racing Greyhounds needed to be fed the very best so as to get the very best out of them. Having said that even the ones that were not raced or bred to race still had very poor teeth compared to most other breeds.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
'deleted', but; The simple fact is that dogs in training, really don't need teeth. A correct diet, from your viewpoint, wouldn't get the best from a racing dog.
Alec.
Fides
Well-Known Member
Alec - what do you think of Saluki lurchers?
Here is my boy
He has had his dew claws off and does tend to fall over when cornering
My other boy still has his claws but has lost his tail at 2 years old due to an accident It was awful and it took him a long time to learn to rebalance. I keep his claws longer than my vet is comfortable with for this reason - without his rudder he needs to dig in...
Here is my boy
He has had his dew claws off and does tend to fall over when cornering
My other boy still has his claws but has lost his tail at 2 years old due to an accident
It was awful and it took him a long time to learn to rebalance. I keep his claws longer than my vet is comfortable with for this reason - without his rudder he needs to dig in...
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
http://www.greyhoundvets.co.uk/pdf/...formance John Kohnke SGV Conference 2012.pdf
This is a very good article by an Australian vet who has been studying this very subject.
Fides
Well-Known Member
A few flying dog pics just cause...
He's such a happy dog!
He's such a happy dog!
blackcob
🖖
My best guess - like other breeds that were (and still are) purpose bred for working or sport only sound winning dogs make it in to a breeding programme. Unsound or unsuccessful dogs are dropped from training and either culled or nowadays are neutered and rehomed. No time, money or genetic material is expended on anything less than a 100% prime example.
As soon as a breed enters the show scene or pet breeding market that goes swiftly down the pan!
Dry Rot
Well-Known Member
The worst thing that can happen to any breed of domestic livestock is to become popular. Very quickly, all and sundry jump on the breeding band wagon and anything that can breed is bred from so the progeny can be sold on again at a premium price as yet more breeding stock!
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
Greyhounds are probably like foxhounds and the unsound ones don't get bred from.
I had my saluki lurchers dewclaws removed as she kept half ripping them off. A friend, who used to course a lot, told me you shouldn't though as they use them when cornering. (Having read the whole thread I see that has been said quite a few times! Mind you my lurcher killed so many hares that any way of slowing her up was a plus).
I had my saluki lurchers dewclaws removed as she kept half ripping them off. A friend, who used to course a lot, told me you shouldn't though as they use them when cornering. (Having read the whole thread I see that has been said quite a few times! Mind you my lurcher killed so many hares that any way of slowing her up was a plus).
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Irishdan
Well-Known Member
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't dream of having dew claws removed from my dogs. 2 of my dogs are a breed who have double hind dew claws which helps them do their job imo.
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Irishdan
Well-Known Member
As a professional Dog Groomer I see a lot of smaller breeds, such as Shih Tzus, which have rear dew claws. Due to the length of hair and , sadly, owner ignorance, they are often overlooked and the nail curls and grows into the flesh causing a lot of pain and discomfort. Rear ones and double rear ones are generally the worst offenders
Fides
Well-Known Member
[video]http://s252.photobucket.com/user/l34nn3_k4ut/media/IMG_1014_zps925a954f.mp4.html[/video]
A short (5 second) vid of just how a grey can shift!!
A short (5 second) vid of just how a grey can shift!!
Leo Walker
Well-Known Member
People dont really understand unless they see them at full pelt. People are always telling me mine are really fast when they are doing the equivalent of a slow canter, lol. When I let mine go for lure racing the kick back is unbelievable! and hes 21TTS and mainly whippet. If they do an unexpected fly by its amazing! And Greys are a whole different kettle of fish!
FinnishLapphund
There's no cow on the ice
Really?? These 2 are my first foray into sighthounds but they do it ALL the time! Until this post I just thought all dogs would do it if they could
Thinking about it, the last spaniel I had did it as well, but with less grace
I'm sure that your dogs are amazing FrankieCob, but I don't think they're that unusual. I've had 1 Norwegian Buhund, 1 crossbreed, 1 Smooth Collie, and a second Norwegian Buhund, before the 3 Finnish Lapphunds that I have now, and I've seen all of them use their front dew claw to groom themselves, and ditto what 2Greys said "scratch their heads and like an extra grip on chews". I haven't noticed how often I've seen it/are seeing it, but it happens every now and then. By the way, I can't recall that I've, this far, ever noticed that anyone of them has gotten grass or similar stuck between a dew claw and the leg.
Several years ago, my late Smooth Collie, who not only had both front and rear dew claws, without also had dew claws which was somewhat loosely attached to the legs, once managed to injure one of her "normal" front claws. She was 13 years old when she died, and never had a problem with her dew claws.
But one of my Finnish Lapphunds injured a dew claw some years ago (front, she's born without rear dew claws), even though that it sits very tightly attached to the leg. I'm not sure how it happened, she didn't yelp or anything, but she's both a little clumsy and easily becomes absent-minded, and I strongly suspect that it happened when she was too busy looking at something in a rocky area in the garden, and forgot to think about what her legs was doing.
So, touch wood, I bought my first bitch 1990, they've all had front dew claws and that is the only dew claw accident they've had (this far). Not even when the injury had happened, did it cross my mind to want to remove her dew claws. I saw it as a pure accident, where she could just as well had injured the paw, one of the other claws, or the leg, instead, it just happened to be the dew claw.
FinnishLapphund
There's no cow on the ice
Lévrier;12439308 said:Prompted by the small white greyhound trying to remove one of her dew claws when running through the woods yesterday - she is very stoical so we only noticed when there were blood stains all over the dog bed when we got home! Luckily it isn't bad enough to need the dew claw removing, but for anyone who thinks they should be left on - please don't
Regardless of our different views about removing dew claws, I hope your girl is soon well again. (((Vibes)))
{97702}
...
You'll learn a lot about dogs in the next 30 years!
If dew claws are of no use to a dog, why is it most wild canids have them? If they are such a hindrance, they must all be heading for extinction. (That's assuming you accept Darwin's theory of evolution, of course).
This reminds me of the post by the young vet who declared that dog saliva was full of nasty bacteria and should never be allowed near a wound. So it might be, but it is also a very good antiseptic. If it wasn't, an awful lot of animals that lick their wounds would have become extinct years ago. A lot of these questions can be answered with simple logic. A dog's paws are not very well designed for wiping their faces, which explains why dew claws are located where they are (and why the hairs on a dogs face lie as they do), on the side of the paw. They are also useful when climbing up steep inclines and gripping, as has been mentioned. Dog breeding has produced many breeds that are far removed from a natural shape so it isn't so unreasonable that some natural adaptations are no longer useful (tails on spaniels?). But personally I would not remove dew claws.
My lurchers used to get torn on barbed wire regularly when chasing rabbits and hares. But then maybe you don't have much barbed wire in that wood of yours? Or perhaps they don't hunt?
What an exceedingly patronising reply DryRot - I said I had had sighthounds for 27 years, I have had dogs for all of my 44 years and have the benefit of a mother (now in her 70s) who has had dogs all her life and has undoubtedly forgotten more than you will ever know
AlecSwan also shows his ignorance of greyhounds by stating they are free from genetic disorders - they are extremely prone to dental problems (as said already been said) and also are regular sufferers of bone cancer, a fact well known amongst breed experts.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
If you watch any sight-hound, when they gallop, either in play or work, you will notice that they 'lay' at what appear to be the most impossible angles, as they put in tight turns, almost as racing motor cyclists do, when on race-tracks, and it's when, flat to the boards, they are attempting to turn, that they will use their dew claws to gain additional grip. That's when they are most likely to collect debris. I'm quite sure that I'll be corrected by the more experienced, but it's only sight-hounds and their derivatives which I've ever really noticed that do it.
We have a near neighbour, an otherwise delightful lady, who has two retired track dogs, and they are never allowed off the lead. It must be like keeping a still young but retired TB in a stable, and for the rest of it's life. I see it as being rather thoughtless and cruel, but each to their own!!
Alec.
Amicus
Well-Known Member
Lévrier;12441353 said:
Fair enough about the bone cancer but surely the dental issues are environmental rather than genetic? I was under the impression that racers are fed their food as slop to aid re-hydration which would unfortunately not do anything to promote healthy teeth.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
Common sense and reason very rarely prevail on here!
It would be unlikely that dental problems which are in reality affected by diet, were hereditary, as I've never had any problems with dogs kept on a more conventional diet.
Alec.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
My recollection of that thread is that almost all posters except you agreed with the vet that a licked wound in a wild animal is better than a dirty wound, but not a patch on a sterile wound which a domestic animal is prevented from licking.
I know nothing about dew claws, though
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
I don't remember the thread concerned, and whether there could be any validation to the argument that a wound heals as quickly, un-covered and being kept clean by a dog's own efforts, or whether a sterile covering would be preferred, would be a rather moot point, but I will say that apart from when dogs attempt to remove their own stitches, it's quite surprising how often a wound which is kept 'clean'(sic) by a dog's own efforts, really does seem to heal that much quicker. Note: I used the word 'Seem'!
Considering what dogs do with their tongues, the revolting things that many will eat, and their general level of oral hygiene (which must be considered non-existant!), one would imagine that the inside of a dog's mouth would be a caldron of bacteria, wouldn't we? The truth though is that dogs are very often their own best doctors, and I'm as surprised as you!
Alec.
Dry Rot
Well-Known Member
My recollection of that thread is that almost all posters except you agreed with the vet that a licked wound in a wild animal is better than a dirty wound, but not a patch on a sterile wound which a domestic animal is prevented from licking.
I know nothing about dew claws, though
I wouldn't know, I left the thread soon after as it was beginning to get boring.
That poster was trying to tell me that allowing a dog to lick a wound was in some way harmful. I cannot recall seeing any counter argument that it was preferable to interfere. I pointed out that if it was indeed harmful for an animal to lick a wound (and most do), over millennia those that did so would have died out leaving those that did not lick their wounds to prosper and breed -- but that hasn't happened yet!
I am all for logical discussion but find it annoying to be shouted down by those who don't agree and who cannot come up with a reasoned and convincing counter argument. I thought that was what a university education was meant to teach?
As regards the removal of dew claws, they are present in most wild canids and I've never felt the need to remove them. Where a breed has been changed by breeders from what I would call a "normal" shape, perhaps there is a need. But that choice if best left to their owners. I've noticed the dew claw being brought into use when a dog tries to claw it's way up a steep incline and they do use that part of the foot when cleaning/grooming their faces and ears.
planete
Well-Known Member
He still has his dew claws, no problems. Watching them run is indeed a treat!
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
planete, yes, and that's why we keep them, don't we?
Stunning pics, just stunning. He's(?) got a fair bit of back, and he does look rather 'well', but a particularly handsome animal. He's so like our boy Dave! I can't post pics. I would that I could!!
Alec.
Stunning pics, just stunning. He's(?) got a fair bit of back, and he does look rather 'well', but a particularly handsome animal. He's so like our boy Dave! I can't post pics. I would that I could!!
Alec.
dogatemysalad
Well-Known Member
Planete. Superb pictures, thanks for posting them. Glad he has his dew claws too.
FinnishLapphund
There's no cow on the ice
I remember when my two Buhunds lived, when they played catch me if you can with various other dogs, including some different sighthounds (so I've seen some run), my bitches often seemed to be almost uncatchable, due to their ability to, sort of, bounce sideways and/or quickly change direction in extremely tight turns.
At the time, I never thought about if they used their dew claws when doing their tight turns, but I suddenly remembered, that I always hoped that they used their dew claws as an extra aid, on the occasions when they did their best alpine ibex impersonation (they were quite good at climbing).
Anyhow, I did not intend to make it sound as if I don't understand how other dogs can get things, e.g. grass, stuck between a dew claw and the leg, but according to what I've read and heard before, it isn't specifically a potential risk only for sighthounds, without any dog regardless of breed which have dew claws could potentially get something stuck between a dew claw and the leg. So therefore, I wanted to say that I can't recall that I've noticed that it has ever happened to any of my bitches (this far).
Leo Walker
Well-Known Member
I think its a sighthound thing! People genuinely dont understand how fast they go and how sharp the turns are until they have one! Even when we are just playing fetch in the park, mine go at full speed and if the ball bounces they can literally turn on a knife edge! My dog is only 21 TTS but hes still caught up with hares who zig zag all over the place! He doesnt run in a straight line even when playing. He runs on a curve, and if theres something hes chasing he does knife edge turns. Full 360s even when hes flat out. I assume its bred into them as if he was catching food for the pot as a living he'd have to be sharp and athletic to do it
Fides
Well-Known Member
I think its a sighthound thing! People genuinely dont understand how fast they go and how sharp the turns are until they have one! Even when we are just playing fetch in the park, mine go at full speed and if the ball bounces they can literally turn on a knife edge! My dog is only 21 TTS but hes still caught up with hares who zig zag all over the place! He doesnt run in a straight line even when playing. He runs on a curve, and if theres something hes chasing he does knife edge turns. Full 360s even when hes flat out. I assume its bred into them as if he was catching food for the pot as a living he'd have to be sharp and athletic to do it
It's amazing to watch isn't it? If you take photos - some of the angles they get themselves into just seem to deny gravity!