Really shocked by this picture in horse and hound this week. Is it just me!?

ycbm said:
So is the answer an independent condition score by an ACPAT physio or a vet before the horse is allowed to enter the ring? No entry if you are more than 3,5/5

That would seem to be a pretty easy solution?

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This wouldn't solve the problem but it would be a damn good step in the right direction! Could evaluate rider size for their horse too.
 
Jill's Gym Karma said:
Might be specific to Thoroughbreds, but I recall reading that a racehorse in peak condition should have a rib or two showing. Does this not apply to other breeds?
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Hmmm, it’s not that I have a problem with a rib or two but I would say that breed type and genetics influence this too.

So whilst I’m anti obese horses, be that cob, draught, native, Tb or whatever I would concede that the biology of some would make it unethical to get them to show ribs. For the live of fresh air types you would probably have to literally starve them and work them to the point of lameness.

A balance does need to be had.

And managing a poor or normal doer is so much easier than a good one!!!
 
ihatework said:
So whilst I’m anti obese horses, be that cob, draught, native, Tb or whatever I would concede that the biology of some would make it unethical to get them to show ribs. For the live of fresh air types you would probably have to literally starve them and work them to the point of lameness.
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I think that is this is true. I think that some of the native breeds just have thicker skins than a finer horse breed, TB for example. I do think that if I saw the ribs on an Exmoor Pony I would think it was not well.
 
Mine is probably the skinniest at my yard. He’s an ems native x cob and we’ve worked our socks off to get the weight off him. Couple of ribs showing. I think people think he’s neglected or I don’t feed him enough- most in his barn are show horses rugged up to the eyeballs and fed all sorts of mixes and junk to keep them looking ‘conditioned’.
 
I'm a happy bunny when I can feel The Beast's ribs with a light pressure. Not sure she's ever going to be slim enough for them to show. She does have, vet described during a cyst removal... "very thick skin" which possibly makes a difference. But after this winter I'm pretty happy especially as she's had no work.

She gets a big belly really easily though, needs to be doing approx 45 mins schooling 3 times a week for that to lift up. More situps required!
 
This is Blue a couple of days ago. She's 15hh on her tiptoes, has 10.5" of bone, and was weighbridged at the vet a few weeks ago at 570kg. I'd say she still needs to drop a bit of fat but three vets commented approvingly on her condition.

You have to squish a bit to feel her ribs, and she's got a little bit of a crest, but at least she doesn't have any massive fat pads. I wasn't worrying too much because I was about to bring her back into work, at which point the fat very quickly and easily turns into muscle, but sadly that's not happening now.

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I have never seen Fatties ribs , even when he hunted three times a week on forage we never saw them .
This winter we have really really restricted his forage clipped him and turned out in a no fill with a 50 gram he has lost a little weight but he’s still well fat is word.
Atm he’s out with his mates the fields are bare he comes in at night to a tiny net and some straw .
He was losing weight all be it slowly because we had started in desperation riding him again .
Now we have stopped that he’s gaining weight again .
It would be unkind to starve him anymore .

We had ribs on Hero by the end of the season we achieved this by hunting him on restricted forage the ribs have now disappeared .
Sky has lost weight not enough to see those fabled ribs now he’s not busy and out and about hes gained a bit .
Its hard having good doers give me a skinny pony anytime .
 
SpringArising said:
I hate showing for this exact reason, and I find Lynn Russell is one of the worst for it.

Q8EkUvo
https://imgur.com/a/Q8EkUvo
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OMG! I live outside of the UK and we don't have showing here, but really where I am people would probably call a welfare organisation for a horse like this. I am truly shocked:(
 
I'm incredibly lucky with Archie, I wouldn't say he's perfect, but he never changes so is so easy to manage. He never gains or loses much weight at all - his girth changes one hole between winter and summer. He's out 24/7 in summer and in overnight in winter on ad-lib haylage and a token feed of Fast Fibre and a sprinkling of Re-leve. It's just to make him want to come in otherwise I have to go looking for him in the dark. :rolleyes:

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Bobbie was gearing up to do outdoor driving trials this season and was coasting along trotting between 10 and 12k out on the roads, lunging and doing fast work in the school. Still fat! I had to soak her hay and feed her a hay/straw mix. Still fat! It was only when I got her on a bare paddock that the weight dropped. I can feel her ribs with light pressure. I don't think I will EVER see them! I can live with her being this weight now I can keep her off the decent grazing. I'm in isolation for a week now and I imagine she will have put weight on when I get back. Good doers are very hard to manage. Its expensive and hard work. I can see why people opt to ignore fat horses!

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Winters100 said:
OMG! I live outside of the UK and we don't have showing here, but really where I am people would probably call a welfare organisation for a horse like this. I am truly shocked:(
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It's terrible and has been going on for decades. These horses are being fed into their graves. As for Bailey's (feeds) - they should be really ashamed for having supported it for so long.
 
Errin Paddywack said:
When I was in my teens and going hunting back in the late 60's, there was someone who hunted two gorgeous true cobs, a grey and a chestnut. In superb condition, hogged and tails plaited up out of the way. They were fabulous and I am sure were also shown, they were certainly cracking hunters. They have always been my blueprint for what a cob should look like. Haven't seen anything to equal them since mores the pity.
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Allister Hood shows and rides a super chestnut cob, who goes out regularly with hounds, as well as showing at the top level. He is a true cob, who turns his hoof to everything, and whilst well rounded, is fit to do his job.
 
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Fit summer Beast vs Fat winter Beast. Can feel ribs only slightly more easily on a fit Beast! It's the belly drop that seems most significant to me, only a bit more fleshy over the shoulder and bum... It's very hard work to get a fit summer Beast. But I'd hoped to get there again this summer. But not looking likely now. I'm going to have to get with a programme of carrot stretches and walking over poles or something to get the belly toned up again.
 
I had a bit of a moan about this last year after I was told Buzz was 'too thin' and 'needed more condition' at two separate working hunter shows. Baring in mind that these were at the beginning of April (horses hadn't moved to the summer fields) and I had been getting him fit for eventing. I actually felt bad about it :( but also my previous pony had to deal with laminitis/EMS that meant he couldn't even look at grass without getting a lami episode due to being allowed to be grossly obese in his younger years so I am very careful with weight!
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I suppose i'm lucky really as Buzz isn't really a fan of hard feed - he categorically will not eat if it he has enough hay/grass, he throws the bowl across the yard! It does make it difficult if I have to give him a supplement or something. I'm often told that I keep him too thin on my yard but then the yard has some very large ponies on it..
This is him in July last year:
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He lives out 24/7 so I am on constant lami alert!
 
Chippers1 said:
I had a bit of a moan about this last year after I was told Buzz was 'too thin' and 'needed more condition' at two separate working hunter shows. Baring in mind that these were at the beginning of April (horses hadn't moved to the summer fields) and I had been getting him fit for eventing. I actually felt bad about it :( but also my previous pony had to deal with laminitis/EMS that meant he couldn't even look at grass without getting a lami episode due to being allowed to be grossly obese in his younger years so I am very careful with weight!
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I suppose i'm lucky really as Buzz isn't really a fan of hard feed - he categorically will not eat if it he has enough hay/grass, he throws the bowl across the yard! It does make it difficult if I have to give him a supplement or something. I'm often told that I keep him too thin on my yard but then the yard has some very large ponies on it..
This is him in July last year:
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He lives out 24/7 so I am on constant lami alert!
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well done for taking no notice of idiots
 
This is the slimmest we have ever managed to get Topaz, she's a stocky 15.2hh and weighed in at 482kg:
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You still couldn't see her ribs and she really couldn't have been slimmer! This was achieved through a winter of good quality hay (ie no dust but less nutritious than haylage) and then a stay away show, which always gets her to drop a bit of weight from stress, plus being in relatively hard work. Never quite got her this fit and slim again, but I'm always trying!
 
i can see the ribs of all my horses, a least 6 ribs, not sure really i might count them later, the best sight ever is a truly fit horse.
 
I saw a photo of a Fjord posted in Chit Chat and Tack that made me audibly gasp last night - It makes the cob in H&H look hunting fit! I'd advise going and having a search if you can, it truly shocked me - and no-one commented (admittedly including me, I wasn't in the mood for an argument).

I do think horses can look very different depending on whether they’re moving or whether they’re standing half cocked with their gut out. For example you can’t see ribs and he looks a bit bloated in the following photo:

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Yet in one of him exercising, albeit not working over his back of course, he looks much fitter and at a better weight for this time of year:

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which actually makes that photo of Lynn Russel worse I think, as horses usually look slimmer when they’re moving and using their core. Jacob weight tapes at 715kg, and I am pretty happy with that - I know they aren't all that accurate but it is about what I expected.
 
It was the photo of Lynn Russell'shorse that prompted me to post the Beast picture I just forgot half way to posting... I cant repost them from my phone but there were photos of Beast cantering last summer... the day before or after the photo above and she actually looks chunkier in motion. I've no doubt Lynn's horse was way too big but I'm not sure if the particular position and angle of that cantering photo doesnt make him look worse.

I cant criticise anyone for having an accidental fat horse. I have one. I do my best but I can't get her much slimmer or fitter than I did last summer. Balancing too many factors with her and with life. However deliberately fattening horses and criticising nice fit horses for being too thin are behaviours that need to be criticised.
 
I struggle sometimes keeping an eye on Chill's weight. Like @Chippers1 other liveries have told me she's too slim at times. What I think the problem is is that she needs to build up muscle as she does look slightly weak behind.

Pic from mid Aug last year, where she was living on grass and a balancer. Working 4-5 days per week:
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And as comparison, a pic from a couple of weeks ago:
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It's certainly not as flattering a photo as the one from last year but I don't think she is too skinny as people like to tell me. She does need to muscle up but it's coming with time! But I don't think she's looking too bad to say she's coming out of a crap winter having worked six days a week. She's also just starting to show some signs of age in her 19th year. I want her to stay a baby forever!
 
Yes building muscle on him is a work in progress, I live in a very flat part of the country so try my best :D the best hilly country park that I could get to has been closed off to us riders for a year - i'm gutted we can't go there any more!
 
Chippers1 said:
Yes building muscle on him is a work in progress, I live in a very flat part of the country so try my best :D the best hilly country park that I could get to has been closed off to us riders for a year - i'm gutted we can't go there any more!
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I feel your struggle as I live in the land of flat terrain! The other three parts of Yorkshire nicked the hills from the east I think!
 
Chippers1 said:
Yes building muscle on him is a work in progress, I live in a very flat part of the country so try my best :D the best hilly country park that I could get to has been closed off to us riders for a year - i'm gutted we can't go there any more!
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Chippers I think you are somewhere vaguely near me, if so and you have transport when all the crazy over come over to me as I have many many hills around here ?
 
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