Retraining ex-racers thread

[humblepie]

Best of luck at Hickstead, I'll have to go and watch an RoR showing class. In my opinion, there is nothing more beautiful than a line up of thoroughbreds!

Thank you, I'm totally obsessed with him!! It's weird, I'm over 40 and like a little girl with her beloved pony all over again .

Thank you. Have been lucky enough to make it to the final judging/presentation in the main arena on a few occasions though think that may be a bit too much excitment for the current horse - it is an amazing experience but very busy as the Sunday afternoon before the Derby.

 

[BACR]

@BACR How is your boy bred? He is so similar to Koby.

They are similar aren't they, Se is by Teofilo (Galileo) and out of Seven Veils (Danehill Dancer). His passport name is Veiled Secret (lol, what a silly name) if you wanted to look him up. I think he cost a hell of a lot more to get on the ground in a fancy tb stud in Ireland than he ever got close to winning, bless him. I'm interested in breeding and curious but I don't know enough about it to know if there is a certain look from particular bloodlines. Someone at camp said last year that he has the Saddlers Wells look about him, someone else said that he looked like a good old fashioned NH type, which he isn't and doesn't. From my understanding he a modern hurdling type, whatever he is he's stuck with me fawning over him for life!

What's Koby's bloodlines? It's interesting to compare when they've got a similar look to them.

 

[IrishMilo]

They are similar aren't they, Se is by Teofilo (Galileo) and out of Seven Veils (Danehill Dancer). His passport name is Veiled Secret (lol, what a silly name) if you wanted to look him up. I think he cost a hell of a lot more to get on the ground in a fancy tb stud in Ireland than he ever got close to winning, bless him. I'm interested in breeding and curious but I don't know enough about it to know if there is a certain look from particular bloodlines. Someone at camp said last year that he has the Saddlers Wells look about him, someone else said that he looked like a good old fashioned NH type, which he isn't and doesn't. From my understanding he a modern hurdling type, whatever he is he's stuck with me fawning over him for life!

What's Koby's bloodlines? It's interesting to compare when they've got a similar look to them.

Some nice lines in there! This is Koby's pedigree: https://www.pedigreequery.com/silver+melody8 (although he insists his sire was a Cob!)

Oh how I've missed a good gallop!

 

[Gamebird]

I missed this before the weekend but I was there too. How did you get on?

Was great seeing all the RoR's, really inspiring. I had expected the standard to be high but was surprised by quite how high it was. I thought there were a lot of really stunning horses there, that had been beautifully schooled and in great condition. Tbh quite a few of them I wouldn't have picked out as TB's if I'd seen them at a BD. What did you think?

We really enjoyed it! One place outside the rosettes in both classes, but the standard was WAY higher than I expected, and I was very pleased with him. I said exactly the same thing about never guessing some of them weren't WBs! Thrilled to come back with a finalist rosette and a plaque, and determined to do better next time - these were only his 5th and 6th ever tests, and I hadn't twigged until I got there that he hasn't seen boards before.

 

[BACR]

Some nice lines in there! This is Koby's pedigree: https://www.pedigreequery.com/silver+melody8 (although he insists his sire was a Cob!)

Oh how I've missed a good gallop!

They both go through Danzig, isn't that a good line for eventers, I'm sure I read that somewhere. Se seems to identify as a shetland in winter, his coat is like a yack!

Nothing like galloping on a tb is there. We had a bowl along xc schooling last weekend, it felt mega .

 

[Taliesan]

I thought I'd pop in here with an update on how Alfie is getting on with his rehab progress with his kissing spine and adjusting to life with me. Plus, I have made the decision to officially have him off my friend and I will be purchasing him, for the grand sum of £1, on the 1st May.

It has all worked out for the best (which these things often do) as my older horse is telling me he no longer wants to be in the current routine. Jack is going to be turned away on grass livery and Alfie can come into my current setup with Apollo in my barn. It will be ideal as Alfie and Apollo like the same sorts of games and they are the same age.

Alfie is starting to look better and turn a corner physically, so when I have a more representative series of photos I will post them all, from the day he arrived to the latest one.

In my earlier post when I said he was me for life, which is still true, I didn't appreciate the full extent to which he could never be passed on. Namely, he has a real talent for rearing. Now, I don't mind dealing with this and it doesn't bother me at all when I am on the ground. He never rears at me, it is always a rear because he has gone over threshold and cannot cope with the situation at the moment. (Which I see as a failing on my part as his human - I never want my horses to be so overwhelmed by any given situation that their reaction is that extreme.)

In hindsight, what I realised with Alfie is that he gives the illusion of being 100% OK and chilled. The reality is, if 100 is the score at which his cup overflows and he can't cope, he was actually at a 95 just in his day to day living. He made you think he was at 0, but he absolutely was not. This is why, when little things, from my perspective, happened he went from being 'fine' to rearing, biting, jogging and trying to pull my arm out of its socket.

I appreciate that this is perhaps not a common viewpoint, but the way I see it is that, when he is reacting in that way, it is not his fault. All he is doing is communicating in the way he knows best. It is my fault for not recognising the smaller signs and putting him in a position that he is not mentally, or physically, able to cope with.

A lot of my time over the past few months has been spent just helping him unwind and realise that, actually, he can politely tell me he is struggling to cope and he doesn't need to go straight in at the equivalent of shouting in my face. He cottoned on really fast to the fact that I did not react to this behaviour and he now de-escalates on his end much, much faster. I let him know that I understand what he is saying and then I either changed the question I was asking (if we were in the school doing groundwork) or we stopped and re-evaluated our plan if we were out on a walk on the roads. He now realises that there is a line of communication there and he can politely tell me he is finding it hard. I listen and then we will work on a solution that suits the pair of us. For me, building that trust and co-operation is the foundation to any relationship I want with my horses.

Alfie is an incredibly kind-hearted horse who absolutely tries to do what I ask him. If he says no it is because something hurts or he isn't confident. If something hurts then I am not going to ask him to work through that when I know his body is currently very compromised. If he isn't confident then it is my job to try and push those boundaries a little, ensure he has a positive experience and then go back to where he feels confident. It is amazing to me how a racehorse, who spent 4 years travelling around the country, is actually not as confident as I'd think when I give him the opportunity to tell me how he is feeling about a situation rather than just telling him to get on with it.

His musculature is getting much less 'racehorse' like and he is starting to fill in around his hindquarters and the base of his withers. This is all very slow though as it will take time to bring down the overdeveloped sets of muscles that he used (successfully) for racing and help him build a new set of muscles to support him in life as a leisure horse.

When he first arrived I couldn't even touch him without him trying to bite me. The "I will rip the skin off your arm if you even think about doing that again" kind of biting. It was backed up with real intent as well. Now, after he has been on the Ron Fields pre-ulc for three months, he is more comfortable being touched and I can even brush parts of him. Other parts are brushed under duress, but he knows he can just tell me he doesn't like it in a quiet and measured way instead of aiming to remove chunks of my body!

The pre-ulc is the only thing I have found that gives him relief. I strongly suspect the ulcers and kissing spine are intrinsically linked. Until his back is no longer hurting him, the ulcers will always be there. So my plan is to keep sticking a plaster on the ulcers in the form of the pre-ulc and not even think about making any moves to cure them until his back pain is resolved.

If he was at a 95/100 base level when he first arrived, I would say he is down to a 65/100 now. There is still a long way to go in terms of his day to day level of comfort but I feel he is on the right trajectory. I can lean my arm across his back and rest my weight on the side of his ribs (leaning against him like you would a door frame) and he is absolutely fine with that. So, clearly, what I am doing with him is helping to increase his levels of comfort. If I even thought about trying to do that sort of thing a month or two ago he probably would have kicked me, then bitten me for good measure.

I feel now that I am, at last, starting to be trusted by him. He alternates between trusting me one day and then not being sure about me the next, but the days on which he trusts and engages with me are starting to outnumber the ones in which he doesn't.

When he moves in with Apollo I am hopeful that will continue to help him unwind mentally and I'll keep working on de-constructing, then re-constructing in a positive way, his movement patterns and supporting musculature.

His feet are also less than ideal, but they are slowly getting better. As they start to improve that will help the rest of his body improve as well. (They are the sort of feet where you look at them from the side and thing, "huh, not too horrific", then you pick them up and wish you'd never looked underneath.) I strongly suspect he also has NPA in his hinds so, as that corrects, it should also help his levels of physical comfort.

At the moment Alfie's rehab programme is lots and lots of walking with his head and neck in a lower, neutral position. He is also getting lots of bodywork to help his muscles unwind from their current patterns. I took him out for a 10 mile walk the other day, expecting him to be tired at the end of it. He was not. Even though he last raced in August 2022, the amount of residual fitness he has in his body is unbelievable. Poor Apollo was knackered and Alfie didn't want to go back into the yard when we got back. He wanted to continue the walk in the other direction...

Anyway, to end this wall of text I figured I'd attach a photo of Alfie and Apollo out on an early morning walk. Alfie is the one on the left (lighter bay) and Apollo is the one on the right (darker bay).

 

[ycbm]

I thought I'd pop in here with an update on how Alfie is getting on with his rehab progress with his kissing spine and adjusting to life with me. Plus, I have made the decision to officially have him off my friend and I will be purchasing him, for the grand sum of £1, on the 1st May.

It has all worked out for the best (which these things often do) as my older horse is telling me he no longer wants to be in the current routine. Jack is going to be turned away on grass livery and Alfie can come into my current setup with Apollo in my barn. It will be ideal as Alfie and Apollo like the same sorts of games and they are the same age.

Alfie is starting to look better and turn a corner physically, so when I have a more representative series of photos I will post them all, from the day he arrived to the latest one.

In my earlier post when I said he was me for life, which is still true, I didn't appreciate the full extent to which he could never be passed on. Namely, he has a real talent for rearing. Now, I don't mind dealing with this and it doesn't bother me at all when I am on the ground. He never rears at me, it is always a rear because he has gone over threshold and cannot cope with the situation at the moment. (Which I see as a failing on my part as his human - I never want my horses to be so overwhelmed by any given situation that their reaction is that extreme.)

In hindsight, what I realised with Alfie is that he gives the illusion of being 100% OK and chilled. The reality is, if 100 is the score at which his cup overflows and he can't cope, he was actually at a 95 just in his day to day living. He made you think he was at 0, but he absolutely was not. This is why, when little things, from my perspective, happened he went from being 'fine' to rearing, biting, jogging and trying to pull my arm out of its socket.

I appreciate that this is perhaps not a common viewpoint, but the way I see it is that, when he is reacting in that way, it is not his fault. All he is doing is communicating in the way he knows best. It is my fault for not recognising the smaller signs and putting him in a position that he is not mentally, or physically, able to cope with.

A lot of my time over the past few months has been spent just helping him unwind and realise that, actually, he can politely tell me he is struggling to cope and he doesn't need to go straight in at the equivalent of shouting in my face. He cottoned on really fast to the fact that I did not react to this behaviour and he now de-escalates on his end much, much faster. I let him know that I understand what he is saying and then I either changed the question I was asking (if we were in the school doing groundwork) or we stopped and re-evaluated our plan if we were out on a walk on the roads. He now realises that there is a line of communication there and he can politely tell me he is finding it hard. I listen and then we will work on a solution that suits the pair of us. For me, building that trust and co-operation is the foundation to any relationship I want with my horses.

Alfie is an incredibly kind-hearted horse who absolutely tries to do what I ask him. If he says no it is because something hurts or he isn't confident. If something hurts then I am not going to ask him to work through that when I know his body is currently very compromised. If he isn't confident then it is my job to try and push those boundaries a little, ensure he has a positive experience and then go back to where he feels confident. It is amazing to me how a racehorse, who spent 4 years travelling around the country, is actually not as confident as I'd think when I give him the opportunity to tell me how he is feeling about a situation rather than just telling him to get on with it.

His musculature is getting much less 'racehorse' like and he is starting to fill in around his hindquarters and the base of his withers. This is all very slow though as it will take time to bring down the overdeveloped sets of muscles that he used (successfully) for racing and help him build a new set of muscles to support him in life as a leisure horse.

When he first arrived I couldn't even touch him without him trying to bite me. The "I will rip the skin off your arm if you even think about doing that again" kind of biting. It was backed up with real intent as well. Now, after he has been on the Ron Fields pre-ulc for three months, he is more comfortable being touched and I can even brush parts of him. Other parts are brushed under duress, but he knows he can just tell me he doesn't like it in a quiet and measured way instead of aiming to remove chunks of my body!

The pre-ulc is the only thing I have found that gives him relief. I strongly suspect the ulcers and kissing spine are intrinsically linked. Until his back is no longer hurting him, the ulcers will always be there. So my plan is to keep sticking a plaster on the ulcers in the form of the pre-ulc and not even think about making any moves to cure them until his back pain is resolved.

If he was at a 95/100 base level when he first arrived, I would say he is down to a 65/100 now. There is still a long way to go in terms of his day to day level of comfort but I feel he is on the right trajectory. I can lean my arm across his back and rest my weight on the side of his ribs (leaning against him like you would a door frame) and he is absolutely fine with that. So, clearly, what I am doing with him is helping to increase his levels of comfort. If I even thought about trying to do that sort of thing a month or two ago he probably would have kicked me, then bitten me for good measure.

I feel now that I am, at last, starting to be trusted by him. He alternates between trusting me one day and then not being sure about me the next, but the days on which he trusts and engages with me are starting to outnumber the ones in which he doesn't.

When he moves in with Apollo I am hopeful that will continue to help him unwind mentally and I'll keep working on de-constructing, then re-constructing in a positive way, his movement patterns and supporting musculature.

His feet are also less than ideal, but they are slowly getting better. As they start to improve that will help the rest of his body improve as well. (They are the sort of feet where you look at them from the side and thing, "huh, not too horrific", then you pick them up and wish you'd never looked underneath.) I strongly suspect he also has NPA in his hinds so, as that corrects, it should also help his levels of physical comfort.

At the moment Alfie's rehab programme is lots and lots of walking with his head and neck in a lower, neutral position. He is also getting lots of bodywork to help his muscles unwind from their current patterns. I took him out for a 10 mile walk the other day, expecting him to be tired at the end of it. He was not. Even though he last raced in August 2022, the amount of residual fitness he has in his body is unbelievable. Poor Apollo was knackered and Alfie didn't want to go back into the yard when we got back. He wanted to continue the walk in the other direction...

Anyway, to end this wall of text I figured I'd attach a photo of Alfie and Apollo out on an early morning walk. Alfie is the one on the left (lighter bay) and Apollo is the one on the right (darker bay).

View attachment 138200

He's a lucky horse to have found you.

 

[Taliesan]

He's a lucky horse to have found you.

Thank you, it really does mean a lot to me to hear that.

I will do my very best to ensure that his life is enriched, fulfilling and pain free - no matter how long or short that may be. He's given humans so much and, in my eyes, it is about time the favour was returned to him.

 

[SashaBabe]

I wish you the very best for your continued journey together. x

 

[humblepie]

That is a very thoughtful post. Getting their confidence is huge so they relax and understand - sounds like really positive progress. All the best to you both.

 

[IrishMilo]

Decided to start getting out more and stop procrastinating. We're out jumping May 26th (training) and June 2nd (comp). Also have a bit specialist coming soon, he is and always has been really fussy in the mouth which stops him concentrating. He's had his teeth done 3 times in the last year so hoping we can find something he likes.

 

[Squeak]

Decided to start getting out more and stop procrastinating. We're out jumping May 26th (training) and June 2nd (comp). Also have a bit specialist coming soon, he is and always has been really fussy in the mouth which stops him concentrating. He's had his teeth done 3 times in the last year so hoping we can find something he likes.

Lovely to see him back Looking forward to hearing how you get on with your outings. I had a bit fitter out for mine and it was really helpful, he can still be a bit fussy with it though.

How big is he? He looks HUGE in that photo!

 

[JBM]

Just got Gloria recently
We starting with the trt method on the ground to see how it goes
No saddle as of yet nothing I have remotely fits so waiting for the saddler

She is so shiney

 

[IrishMilo]

Lovely to see him back Looking forward to hearing how you get on with your outings. I had a bit fitter out for mine and it was really helpful, he can still be a bit fussy with it though.

How big is he? He looks HUGE in that photo!

Thank you. I can't express the gratitude in having him back! He's 16.1 and I'm 5'2! He always seems so much bigger than his height, I think because he's so wide!

 

[ycbm]

Nice sort JBM,

Just got Gloria recently
We starting with the trt method on the ground to see how it goes
No saddle as of yet nothing I have remotely fits so waiting for the saddler
View attachment 138970
She is so shiney

Great powerhouse and lovely shoulder JBM. How long ago did she race?
.

 

[JBM]

Nice sort JBM,



Great powerhouse and lovely shoulder JBM. How long ago did she race?
.

She had a very short career
Glorious gateway Tis her name
Raced twice in 2020

Glorious Getaway | Race Record & Form | Racing Post

Glorious Getaway statistics and form. View results and future entries as well as statistics by course, race type and prize money.

www.racingpost.com

had started her retraining but then do to a relationship split she spent 2 years living in a field and hand showing occasionally
So she’s done..pretty much nothing for her age which i like
All the growing and hormones settled (hopefully) and just have a bit of settled fun the plan anyway

 

[humblepie]

JBM. She looks lovely.

 

[BACR]

Decided to start getting out more and stop procrastinating. We're out jumping May 26th (training) and June 2nd (comp). Also have a bit specialist coming soon, he is and always has been really fussy in the mouth which stops him concentrating. He's had his teeth done 3 times in the last year so hoping we can find something he likes.

Great to see him back here with you , he looks super. Hope the bit fit goes well. I've tried loads with Se, who was also super fussy in the mouth and has dentals at least every 6 months (he's got a very slight parrot mouth). He's settled in a NS transangled hanging cheek for flatwork, and a verbinden loose ring for jumping, just in case that helps in any way.

 

[BACR]

Just got Gloria recently
We starting with the trt method on the ground to see how it goes
No saddle as of yet nothing I have remotely fits so waiting for the saddler
View attachment 138970
She is so shiney

What a gorgeous looking mare JBM, hope you're having a lovely time with her.

 

[IrishMilo]

Can someone please convince me that buying a horsebox is worth it? I promised myself once I got a new job I'd treat myself to one but now I'm getting cold feet parting with so much cash! One of my goals for this year was to get out more so I'd probably use it at least 4 times a month.

So far I've made do with hiring but:

1) There's only one box for hire within a 30 minute radius of me, which is an annoying 2 hour round trip just to get the thing and drop it off.
2) I clean it to within an inch of its life every time I use it as not to incur charges, which is often the last thing I want to do after a long day.
3) Hire is £120 for a 24 hour period + returned with full tank (I usually use about £70 worth of fuel). Which means I'd be spending £570 every month on a box I have no equity in.
4) It's often not available when I want it so have to very carefully weigh up events. If an event is cancelled I can't just not pay for the box.

+ I REALLY want this box because it's pink and amazing!

 

[ycbm]

Can someone please convince me that buying a horsebox is worth it? I promised myself once I got a new job I'd treat myself to one but now I'm getting cold feet parting with so much cash! One of my goals for this year was to get out more so I'd probably use it at least 4 times a month.

So far I've made do with hiring but:

1) There's only one box for hire within a 30 minute radius of me, which is an annoying 2 hour round trip just to get the thing and drop it off.
2) I clean it to within an inch of its life every time I use it as not to incur charges, which is often the last thing I want to do after a long day.
3) Hire is £120 for a 24 hour period + returned with full tank (I usually use about £70 worth of fuel). Which means I'd be spending £570 every month on a box I have no equity in.
4) It's often not available when I want it so have to very carefully weigh up events. If an event is cancelled I can't just not pay for the box.

+ I REALLY want this box because it's pink and amazing!

And you need us to convince you ?

It would be cheaper by far to own the pink horse taxi. Buy it!
.

 

[IrishMilo]

And you need us to convince you ?

It would be cheaper by far to own the pink horse taxi. Buy it!
.

OK, I possibly already have convinced myself... plus I really want to see my massive brown boy horse in a bright pink box!

 

[ycbm]

OK, I possibly already have convinced myself... plus I really want to see my massive brown boy horse in a bright pink box!

We'll need pictures .

 

[Michen]

Would love some advice. I have an ex racer who’s just got no mouth whatsoever. I’m limited with arena and hacking mostly and trying to do what I can, asking him to give but it just doesn’t feel like we are progressing. I have him in a French link fulmer at the moment and his teeth have been done.

He’s so strong in the mouth, like a plank of wood. I’m wondering if there’s a better bit I could try with him to help that he may prefer. Any suggestions welcome!

 

[Michen]

Can someone please convince me that buying a horsebox is worth it? I promised myself once I got a new job I'd treat myself to one but now I'm getting cold feet parting with so much cash! One of my goals for this year was to get out more so I'd probably use it at least 4 times a month.

So far I've made do with hiring but:

1) There's only one box for hire within a 30 minute radius of me, which is an annoying 2 hour round trip just to get the thing and drop it off.
2) I clean it to within an inch of its life every time I use it as not to incur charges, which is often the last thing I want to do after a long day.
3) Hire is £120 for a 24 hour period + returned with full tank (I usually use about £70 worth of fuel). Which means I'd be spending £570 every month on a box I have no equity in.
4) It's often not available when I want it so have to very carefully weigh up events. If an event is cancelled I can't just not pay for the box.

+ I REALLY want this box because it's pink and amazing!

No! Car and trailer. Unless you do loads of miles for work? So much more efficient and I preferred towing over my lorry tbh!

 

[ycbm]

Would love some advice. I have an ex racer who’s just got no mouth whatsoever. I’m limited with arena and hacking mostly and trying to do what I can, asking him to give but it just doesn’t feel like we are progressing. I have him in a French link fulmer at the moment and his teeth have been done.

He’s so strong in the mouth, like a plank of wood. I’m wondering if there’s a better bit I could try with him to help that he may prefer. Any suggestions welcome!

There are a lot of ex racers like this I'm afraid M. I had a lot more success with jointless bits . Depending on the horse a straight bar (mullen) or a Bomber Happy Tongue seemed to work best.

And lateral flexions of the neck, whether mounted or in hand, are a mouth retraining exercise ime.
.

 

[Carrottom]

Would love some advice. I have an ex racer who’s just got no mouth whatsoever. I’m limited with arena and hacking mostly and trying to do what I can, asking him to give but it just doesn’t feel like we are progressing. I have him in a French link fulmer at the moment and his teeth have been done.

He’s so strong in the mouth, like a plank of wood. I’m wondering if there’s a better bit I could try with him to help that he may prefer. Any suggestions welcome!

I have often found a single jointed bit better. Also, starting from the ground rather than the saddle. Transferring the softening to under saddle can take time. With one horse I had someone on the ground walking alongside with their hands on the reins to facilitate the change.

 

[Michen]

Thank you yes I’ve been doing the lateral stuff from the ground too and standstill. But it goes to pot ridden! I tried a straight bar super soft nathe. That’s interesting about single joint thank you. I’ll give one a go. Would you choose a loose ring or something a little more stable?

 

[Lauraback]

Would love some advice. I have an ex racer who’s just got no mouth whatsoever. I’m limited with arena and hacking mostly and trying to do what I can, asking him to give but it just doesn’t feel like we are progressing. I have him in a French link fulmer at the moment and his teeth have been done.

He’s so strong in the mouth, like a plank of wood. I’m wondering if there’s a better bit I could try with him to help that he may prefer. Any suggestions welcome!

A drop noseband may help him soften, don’t think folks use them much these days but my old trainer rated them a lot for green horses back in the day

 

[Carrottom]

Thank you yes I’ve been doing the lateral stuff from the ground too and standstill. But it goes to pot ridden! I tried a straight bar super soft nathe. That’s interesting about single joint thank you. I’ll give one a go. Would you choose a loose ring or something a little more stable?

I have found a boucher, otherwise called a hanging cheek, good for some as it stabilises the bit. In racing the bit is usually raised high in the mouth so it doesn't move about.