Returning a horse not fit for purpose

You seem to have good advice from bhs now, do hope it sorts itself out for you, and your seller takes the pony back.

I am sure we all feel for yet another pony who has not been handled and trained correctly so ends up being past around and never settling. The whole situation is so sad.
 
I think this poor mare is miss understood.
She lived at a yard with lots of horse friends, she trkked out in a group and knew the routes.
She knew the staff and regular riders.

She probably was suitable for a novice and 100% in all ways.

Then shes gets taken a way, to a strange yard, with strange people and horses and asked to ride out alone.

She needs time to settle, get used to her new owner and home.
You need to be firm but fair.
Yes some horse do take a move like this in theor stide but often even the saints have to be forgiven a few issues.

So whether she is suiatable for a novice at the moment and whether you could send her back i dont know.
 
I feel so sorry for the poor pony. She sounds scared and unsettled and being passed from pillar to post has probably made it worse.

I also feel sorry for Op. Dealing with this situation day in and day out can be no fun.

If she will come over to you in the field how about just taking some brushes etc out to the field and spend some time up there grooming her and talking to her. Hopefully doing this for a few days might be less stressful for you both and help you to bond and gain her trust. Even if you go the legal route I doubt anything will happen overnight so might be worth a go.
 
JulesRules said:
I feel so sorry for the poor pony. She sounds scared and unsettled and being passed from pillar to post has probably made it worse.

I also feel sorry for Op. Dealing with this situation day in and day out can be no fun.

If she will come over to you in the field how about just taking some brushes etc out to the field and spend some time up there grooming her and talking to her. Hopefully doing this for a few days might be less stressful for you both and help you to bond and gain her trust. Even if you go the legal route I doubt anything will happen overnight so might be worth a go.
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I doubt that the pony is scared and unsettled. For £900 from a riding school , the riding school just wanted shot of her, from the messages from the kids that used to ride her she was obviously unsuitable for the riding school so they offered her at a cheap price to get her sold.
She sounds like a typical pony that doesn't really enjoy riding school work so develops naughty behaviour problems. Once these are installed it takes a lot of hard work and time to uninstall !
I ran a riding school and I am all to familiar with the types of ponies that simply don't like the work. We usually were able to decide to sell them before their issues got too bad but if not then they were sold cheaply however HONESTLY with all issues disclosed.
 
We should all feel sorry for the pony she has been failed the most .
From a strong " working" breed that needs proper firm clear training at the start she probally never had the chance to be the best she can be .
OP makes no mentain of a proper vetting or proper veterinary imput on the issues IMO its vital that inexperianced people do not miss out a proper vetting and proper veterinary imput into issues they are having.
A back lady is not qualified to say a horse has no pain issues indeed it's not legal for her to do so .
Who knows what may be wrong with this poor horse if it did not get a proper vetting.
Op is doing exactly what she must do using all her energy and focus to return the horse and get her money back.
But poor horse you have to feel a lot of compassion for her.
 
No I totally understand about how everyone feels about the horse. I have had issues with her since day one but been determined for her sake to give her a forever home. I had everyone say to me in the first week to send her back and I have stubbornly refused to and battled on everyday for another 6 weeks because I wanted to do what was best for her. She is such a sweet mare in the field. Always the first to greet and show an interest.
However the second I take her out the field she changes and I have to accept that I need to put my safety and that of my friend first and also that for whatever reason she isn't happy with me handling her so that isn't the best home for her unless I'm just going to keep her as a pet to just stroke over the fence now and then.
If I had bought a show jumper who refused to even attempt to jump our a racer who couldn't gallop or a horse to drive that was petrified of a cart then it would all still be the same.... I bought a quiet riding pony and I wouldn't of taken her on if given to me the way she is now.
Yes maybe she will settle down more in time and maybe I can spend the next few months or years trying to get her just to be able to lead her out the field and still not being able to do anything with her except smooth her over the fence.
I feel sorry for her as well but what option so I have... Just give her away so she gets a good home and I'm then left with no horse and no money?
 
OP, you sound very sensible and have considered all the options, and in your position I would do the same.

You didn't take on a "project" you bought a pony to ride. Every horse or pony I have bought from whatever source, private or a dealer, I have been able to get on ride straight away.
 
Although I do really feel for you OP I do think that all the warnings were there and you either thought you could change the mare or didn't read between the lines.
I think I am right in saying that you were aware that the horse bucked as you were told she bucked in the school, if a horse uses bucking as a evading technique it will use it hacking, schooling or anywhere else it would be. If it bucks, it bucks!
I remember reading also that they told you she would hack alone with some persistence or similar wording, (can't find it now)
It is a shame for you and the horse but it sounds like they did tell you (although maybe not in so many words) that this horse could be difficult.
I hope you get this situation settled one way or another as this can be no fun for you or pony.
Maybe next time you are looking to buy you will listen out for the warnings that it sounds like the seller gave you.
Try not to hate your horse, as although I know she is making your life miserable its not her fault. If you feel angry or hateful towards her she WILL know, and therefore act accordingly.
 
I know this feeling :-(

A very good friend of mine suggested the perfect horse for me, quite pricey and also only 4- I was looking for something the opposite... So I went up and did everything with him, hacked alone, in the field, in the school, in the stable and he was perfect.

Under a bit of pressure I bought him and brought him home, all of a sudden he's bolshy, rears and hates being left alone. I was devastated and Lost confidence. Then to find that the owner was telling little snippets of lies to me, ie, told me the saddle cost her£1000 and i could have it for £400... Then a friend told me she had sold her the saddle at £300 one year previously.. This owner was lovely but goes to show people will do anything for money and anything for a sale.

Luckily my boy is turning a corner and I now believe he's perfect for me, still a little naughty when left but over the winter I think this will improve.

There is nothing worse than getting excited for a horse you believe to be perfect for you, to then find its the opposite. I would love to see you push through, initially with ground work as this is most important, do not ride her if you feel unsafe but at the end of it I she isn't for you then cut your losses and push for her to go back, if unsuccessful try selling her on as a brood mare or to a very experienced home. Unfortunately your not likely to get much money for her.

Sorry to hear your in such a predicament and hope you get this sorted ASAP!!!
 
wakijaki said:
Have been on the phone to bhs this morning and they said that as the seller would be classed as a dealer as she has other horses up for sale in the course of her business then I'm protected under sale of goods act 1979 and within my rights to reject the horse and seek a refund within 2 years... For the first 6 months I don't have to prove the bad behaviour myself. .
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I once reported someone who was selling a horse I'd gone to try as I believed the horse to be stolen as she didn't have its papers nor the correct sized bit or even a correctly sized saddle and no rugs for it. She hadn't told me she was a dealer, she strongly gave me the impression she was selling privately and even said she was a livery at this particular yard. When horsewatch and then local constabularly became involved they found out she was a dealer who wasn't paying tax and she got into hot water for being an unregistered (and non tax paying business). the horse wasn't stolen but she didn't have the papers as she'd not paid the bloke who she'd bought it off outright for the horse and was going to pay him the balance when she'd sold the said horse. (We ended up buying Billy and he was fantastic and I loved him greatly for the sadly short time we owned him (he dropped down dead from a heart attack 2 1/2 years later).

But what I am saying is in any correspondence to her you might like to say that as she is a dealer (and include and emphasise the words 'presumably registered and paying tax') and this alone might be enough to scare her into action.
 
To give an indication, my GB girl with great bloodlines and temperament cost £2500 as an unbroken 3 yo. I could have bought loads already broken for £1k but also that they wouldn't have the background you need with any sparky cob eg Haflingers or welsh Ds.

Don't diss the breed, the quality properly treated end is truly magical.
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To add to the comments about the breed not being bad overall, my recently backed 4yo Haflinger x Welsh D is a total superstar and sweetheart. He is going to be a cracking allround in a couple of years. He'd be very easy to mess up though, he's sharp and sensitive and needs firm but fair and consistent handling. I'm lucky in that his last owner did a really nice job with his ground manners and the actual backing process, so he has no issues at all. As long as he understands your request, or has room to figure it out without being pressured, he'll move heaven and earth to give the right answer.

OP, it does sound like the horse wasn't truly represented to you, and as a result neither you or the horse are happy. I hope that you can get some recourse from the seller, but I suspect it won't be easy as the BHS helpline made it sound.

For what it's worth, when I went to buy my boy I had a typed list of questions to ask the seller, running to about 6 pages long! They covered everything from health (has had teeth done, what like for feet handling and trimming, vaccinations) to basic management (how kept, routine, is ok in stable with company and alone, live out all winter, feed), to ridden experience (when backed, how backed, what done under saddle, hack alone, in company) and anything else I could think of. I asked the seller every single questions, wrote down the answer and got them to sign the sheets at the end to verify that the answers were as given. I also had 2 people witness it. It might sound long winded but it covered my back and also reassured the seller that I was serious about the purchase. I also had a full vetting before buying. It might be worth considering something like this for when you next look. It's not always going to save you from bad sellers or buying the wrong horse, but it reduces the possibility.
 
charlie76 said:
I doubt that the pony is scared and unsettled.
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I think it's pretty unusual for any horse that has changed hands/homes not to be unsettled by it. My girl is very calm and settled well when I bought her. However with hindsight it's obvious she took a good 6 months to feel really comfortable with me and the change of yard.

I'm not saying pony isn't taking the mickey, and seeing how far she can push op. However OP has stated she will hack OK in company but not alone. Why? Most probably fear, and in this case displayed by fight as opposed to flight.

Just my take on things
 
I take it that the Trekking Centre is a business and under the Sale of Goods Act you have a right to return the horse for a full refund. Speak to Trading Standards.
 
Be very positive OP and make it clear to the seller that you are sending her back and want a refund. You have had good
sound advice from the BHS and tell the seller this. Make it very clear that you will not take no for an answer, they must take
her back.
 
I really feel for you OP and hope that you get the outcome you want.
I also feel for the pony. She really only knows one thing and never has to think for herself. The trekking centre should know better and realise that she needs completely rehabilitating. I doubt she really knows how to lunge, school or anything other than follow the tail in front. It's sad as she is in a completely alien environment, must be scared, confused and feeling rather more alone. Her fighting you is a sure sign of that.
I hope the trekking centre act on their responsibility to this mare or I can see her future looking pretty bleak.
I would be really angry if I were you, for her sake aswell. :(
 
I cant imagine thats right that you can return a horse for a full refund within TWO YEARS?! Thats ridiculous!

Its a hard one because is she actually proven to be considered a dealer? Please dont assume that the horse is a total nutjob just because its been naughty with you, loads of horses test their new owner and some are far cleverer (ie. naughty!) than others. One of mine that I sold a few years ago was the type of horse that you had to earn his respect, I made this clear to the person I sold him to that I knew he'd test her, to the point that I even told her that I'd refund her if he proved too much for her! He was returned to me for a full refund within 4 days...!! Apparently he'd been absolutely vile to her, biting her, kicking, pinning her against the wall, she couldn't even tack him up to try riding him - NONE of this he did with me, I was rather shocked! She clearly wasn't very confident and he picked up on that. I ended up selling him to a 14yr old girl who he just gelled with, she still has him now and loves him to pieces. So remember horses can be VERY different depending on the person.
 
Ive read this thread through and i feel really sorry for the pony. You mention that a rehab place might take her, is this an option instead or returning her? I know you'd loose your money (im not rich either, £900 for me is a lot to loose) but im not sure i could return a horse to an uncertain future, its not her fault.

Could the rehab place swap her for a project thats ready for a new home?
 
Just want to add that while it may be common to have problems with ex trail or riding centre horses, it not the rule. I bought my first horse on a riding holiday in Northern Ireland, completely on impulse. She was one of only a few IDx or ish that they had among a lot of nose to tail cobs. I tried her in every scenario including a beach ride where I had to pull up from a fast canter due to nervous novices, EXCEPT riding alone. As a novice owner myself I wasn't even aware of napping. The people who sold her said she was too good for a riding school, but I stuck her in one on working livery for a year anyway. They loved her - she would go first or last, and was just as happy alone. I then took her out of the school, and in total had ten and a half wonderful years with her. She was just about perfect, my niece could ride her off the lead rein aged four, and I could do dressage, jump or hack. So please folks don't dismiss horses that started life in a trekking centre!
 
It sounds like you have brought a very green pony, haffys are ultra clever and can take full advantage of this. You do not want this sort of challenge now and a first pony, no. If you only paid £900 then alarm bells would have sounded for me, ponies that do everything are normally expensive unless you are lucky!

With some firm handling then yes the situation could be reversed.

Two options

Keep and be prepared to work, get a decent instructor and send mare away with instructor for schooling

Sell

I think your seller may say its too late
 
Some of you are so quick to judge. This owner is clearly in distress, has maybe been a little bit 'in the clouds' when buying but aren't we all?? ..i know I am!! And by the sounds of it whether the horse should be felt sorry for or not, at the moment she isn't safe to handle. Hafflingers are strong animals, beautiful, but any horse when it knows its strength is a danger to itself and anyone handling it. Iv no doubt that the owner could sort these problems... But why should she? Continue thinking of your children, do NOT put yourself in a dangerous situation. This horse needs some serious rehab from someone who has full confidence and experience with behavioural problems along with the time and money to go with. With regards to price????? My super sweet mare who is anyones dream to hack out and do most things with, and the most beautiful manners was up for £1000 and did not sell - the market at the moment is terrible and a price like that would be about right for a riding school horse. Persue getting your money back but unfortunetly you may have to come to terms with the fact that she may need to be sold on for a much smaller price, if not given away. We all make mistakes, don't feel alone and don't feel like you are failing the horse, I wish you all the best and hope it works out for both horse and owner!!! Xx
 
DIESELSUPERSTAR said:
Some of you are so quick to judge. This owner is clearly in distress, has maybe been a little bit 'in the clouds' when buying but aren't we all?? ..i know I am!! And by the sounds of it whether the horse should be felt sorry for or not, at the moment she isn't safe to handle. Hafflingers are strong animals, beautiful, but any horse when it knows its strength is a danger to itself and anyone handling it. Iv no doubt that the owner could sort these problems... But why should she? Continue thinking of your children, do NOT put yourself in a dangerous situation. This horse needs some serious rehab from someone who has full confidence and experience with behavioural problems along with the time and money to go with. With regards to price????? My super sweet mare who is anyones dream to hack out and do most things with, and the most beautiful manners was up for £1000 and did not sell - the market at the moment is terrible and a price like that would be about right for a riding school horse. Persue getting your money back but unfortunetly you may have to come to terms with the fact that she may need to be sold on for a much smaller price, if not given away. We all make mistakes, don't feel alone and don't feel like you are failing the horse, I wish you all the best and hope it works out for both horse and owner!!! Xx
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This totally!
 
DIESELSUPERSTAR said:
Some of you are so quick to judge. This owner is clearly in distress, has maybe been a little bit 'in the clouds' when buying but aren't we all?? ..i know I am!! And by the sounds of it whether the horse should be felt sorry for or not, at the moment she isn't safe to handle. Hafflingers are strong animals, beautiful, but any horse when it knows its strength is a danger to itself and anyone handling it. Iv no doubt that the owner could sort these problems... But why should she? Continue thinking of your children, do NOT put yourself in a dangerous situation. This horse needs some serious rehab from someone who has full confidence and experience with behavioural problems along with the time and money to go with. With regards to price????? My super sweet mare who is anyones dream to hack out and do most things with, and the most beautiful manners was up for £1000 and did not sell - the market at the moment is terrible and a price like that would be about right for a riding school horse. Persue getting your money back but unfortunetly you may have to come to terms with the fact that she may need to be sold on for a much smaller price, if not given away. We all make mistakes, don't feel alone and don't feel like you are failing the horse, I wish you all the best and hope it works out for both horse and owner!!! Xx
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second this! I tried to help a friend with a similar horse and it fractured my spine and put me in intensive care for 3 weeks with the prognosis that I'd struggle to walk in future. I can walk, but we are talking tens of thousands of pounds that I've lost already, and it will be a very long time before I'm fit to work full time again, and that will be at a much lower lever. I've been told I should NEVER ride again either :( And I didnt have kids! I'm an instructor and could have no way been considered a novice rider. Just something to bear in mind :)
 
Gloi said:
She sounds a lot like my first pony who came from a trekking centre via a riding school. My dad, who knew nothing of horses bought him for me because I said I liked him, though I hadn't the experience at the time to know what he'd be like as I'd only ever ridden in a riding school. I was 13 at the time. He'd obviously never been schooled or ridden alone before but fortunately I was just glad to have him and was as pig headed as he was. I used to set myself a target of how far I was going to get up the track and try and make it a bit further each day. He would stop, squeal, spin and gallop home and then we'd start again. Sometimes my friends would drag him or follow with a lunge whip. Eventually we started to win and after 6 months I could do anything with him and rode him every second I wasn't at school. I learned more from that pony than I did from any riding school or any other I've had since.
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I could have written this post courtesy of the stroppy Connemara bought for me by my father a 100 years ago when neither of us knew anything about horses. Ex-riding school little nappy, bucking sod. Don't know how or why I battled on, but I did. Ignorance of youth. Wouldn't do it now. He turned into a lovely pony. But definitely not a great first buy.
As for you dear OP, so sorry you have this dilemma. If I were you (speaking at advanced age rather than me as callow youth) cut your losses and try and get your money back. Alternatively, sell, with a genuine ad, and then try for another. Very best of luck.
 
FrankieCob said:
second this! I tried to help a friend with a similar horse and it fractured my spine and put me in intensive care for 3 weeks with the prognosis that I'd struggle to walk in future. I can walk, but we are talking tens of thousands of pounds that I've lost already, and it will be a very long time before I'm fit to work full time again, and that will be at a much lower lever. I've been told I should NEVER ride again either :( And I didnt have kids! I'm an instructor and could have no way been considered a novice rider. Just something to bear in mind :)
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What a terrible experience for you, and yes your post reminds everyone that we should all remember that however much we want to love our horses their strength and basic flight nature always make riding and handling unpredictable, especially when problems arise.


OP do continue to do as BHS advise.

If you do unfortunately end up without the money to purchase a replacement, have a look on the welfare organisation sites for a long term adoption, you will get support and a pony who has undergone rehabilitation. I am on the Blue Cross Borrowers Facebook group and the ex rescues do achieve fantastic things. WHW and Redwings have super horses and ponies for loan too.
 
I own a haflinger who also spent some time as a riding school pony, she was sacked for bad behaviour! After her stint in the riding school she went to a private home from where I eventually bought her. I remember her previous owner telling me that I would spend the first 3 months actively disliking the pony and wondering if I'd made a horrible mistake! She said that Tara would test me as much as she could in true haflinger fashion, I was very lucky because Tara's previous owner helped me with advice in the early stages. Tara can be nappy, bolshy and very bargy! She hates hacking alone and it took ages for her to form the same close bond to me that she had with her old owner. She's never going to be a straightforward pony, she has so much character and intelligence, but she's wonderful and I love her for it.
Your pony sounds very much like Tara but I think she's learnt many ways of evading things she dosent want to do. I would say from my experiences with my gorgeous haffy that you could overcome the worst of her behaviour but she may all ways be a strongly opinionated character inclined to test you out, not all ways in a naughty way but they certainly keep you on your toes. It depends if the end result of loads of hard work and frustration results in the type of horse you want anyway?
I wish you loads of luck whatever happens, don't give up whether you manage to return your haflinger and find something more suitable or if you give her another chance.
 
Adopter said:
You seem to have good advice from bhs now, do hope it sorts itself out for you, and your seller takes the pony back.

I am sure we all feel for yet another pony who has not been handled and trained correctly so ends up being past around and never settling. The whole situation is so sad.
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I would hope that given the seller buys and sells and breaks and trains horses for a living that she stands a much better chance than me to actually do some work with the horse before trying to sell her on again. The fact that this is the second horse i know about that this has happened with is another reason why i want some sort of recompence - if she is not made to see that she can't get away with selling horses without making buyers aware of problems and doing any training with the horses first - then there is nothing to stop her doing it again and for someone to get very seriously hurt by purchasing a 'quiet' horse that thinks its an extra in a rodeo!
 
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