Right on way on a steep hill with a trailer

[mustardsmum]

Had an awful experience this morning coming back from a lesson this morning with my trailer. Meet an HGV on a single track, steep lane with a blind corner. HGV driver made me try to reverse trailer (with pony in) back up the steep hill, which I tried to argue against doing. First try was unsuccessful and car was not moving the trailer, so decided to take horse (in not ideal situation) out to make the trailer lighter. This helped, but after reversing a couple of meters, I ended up with an awful smell of over heated clutch. Normally, I would not have moved if it was a car, but the driver was insistent that I was the one who needed to reverse back. The HGV driver tried to get past, and failed (er, single track road....) and then he proceeded to unhitch my my trailer !!! The whole situation was incredibly stressful, and if there hadn't been a lovely lady trying to help and acting as a witness - I don't know what I would have done. What I wondered is, who actually had right of way and what should I have done? Me coming down a very steep hill single track road on a blind corner with a trailer and horse or the HGV driver on a single track road that is unsuitable for heavy vehicles whose sat nave clearly had brought him the wrong way. The only blessing was we were close to home and my daughter managed to get her normally quite boisterous little horse home in hand after squeezing her past the HGV which was by a driveway (which driver had tried to get me to reverse my trailer into and it was totally unsuitable being far to small and full of flower pots.....). We don't know what the damage has been done to my 4x4- the smell of burnt clutch was dreadful. I also realised that after the driver had unhitched my trailer, he had put the brake on. In my stressed state, I didn't realise, and drove half a mile home with a the brake on the trailer.... Interestingly, later in the day, we found part of his lorry on the side of the road on another tight corner that he had tried to squeeze around. As I had photographs of the lorry on the hill trying to get past me as evidence in case he hit me - we could confirm the large step found on the road was from passenger side of the lorry......

 

[HappyHollyDays]

That sounds an incredibly stressful situation to be in so well done for keeping your cool. If you have photos, number plate and know the firm involved look up the Company details and send copies of all the evidence to the MD. Explain exactly what happened as you have on here and tell them any damage to your vehicle and trailer caused by the intransigence of their driver will result in the bill being passed on to them for payment. It may elicit a response and hopefully the driver will be reprimanded for poor error of judgement and stupidity.

 

[PapaverFollis]

What a nightmare! Sounds like it might have been easier for him to reverse!

I think as far as actual right of way goes that the vehicle going up hill does have priority (did my driving training and test in Sheffield... lots of steep hills with parked cars on both sides!). But it's one of those where applying "common sense" and a bit if thoughtfulness would be useful!

 

[AmyMay]

What a nightmare! Sounds like it might have been easier for him to reverse!

I think as far as actual right of way goes that the vehicle going up hill does have priority (did my driving training and test in Sheffield... lots of steep hills with parked cars on both sides!). But it's one of those where applying "common sense" and a bit if thoughtfulness would be useful!

This. But, PF says, there has to be a degree of common sense. I think Expecting a laden trailer to reverse up hill and around a bend is unacceptable, especially as the hill was steep enough to require the horse to be offloaded before doing so.

 

[mutley75]

I was always taught vehicle coming uphill had right of way to answer your questio.

 

[gallopingby]

You have priority if going uphill, need to be able to keep moving!! HGV driver should be able to reverse and should know his lorry well enough Most of them are pretty expert drivers, sounds like the one you met was less expert.

 

[mustardsmum]

Many thanks for all your replies. I figured he probably did have right of way, but had just wondered whether there were extenuating circumstances when you have livestock on board We did speak to the haulier's and actually they were very apologetic and agreed he should not have unhitched the trailer, nor should I have had to unload my horse on the road, and he suggested that maybe the lorry could have reversed back to a turning where I could have pulled in. So I guess that's something. My car seems ok - we took it for a test run today and it drover ok but I suspect I have taken a years worth of wear off my clutch trying to push the trailer up such a steep hill. The smell of burnt clutch has gone and the trailer seems unharmed from being towed with the brake on for half a mile..... Just hope I never have to experience meeting an HGV on a tiny country lane again!

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Should he have actually been there at all, most of the narrow roads round here have signs saying 'unsuitable for HGVs'?

 

[M&M&G]

I think the brake kicks in you try to reverse a trailer uphill (no idea why). Have been in a similar situation with a friend and her brakes locked on and the other person had to reverse downhill.

 

[mustardsmum]

Should he have actually been there at all, most of the narrow roads round here have signs saying 'unsuitable for HGVs'?

No he probably shouldn't have been - the road is barely wide enough for my trailer and if it wasn't for the fact I live along it I would not take a trailer along this stretch of road! It's very steep and winding with a house at an awkward angle right of the steepest bend so a challenge at the best of times! We have had a lot of problems locally with HGV's lately and hopefully signage will be put in to stop this happening. Time to write to the local parish council.....

I think the brake kicks in you try to reverse a trailer uphill (no idea why). Have been in a similar situation with a friend and her brakes locked on and the other person had to reverse downhill.

I thought that was the problem, but thought I might be able to move it if I removed the horse. However, seems not..... Unfortunately, the driver was Polish and didn't have any English so we couldn't even begin to explain the problem. He just kept gesturing for me to reverse up the hill and gesturing it was me that couldn't drive. Wish now I had just stood my ground - he could have reversed downhill where there were a number of passing places. You live and learn......

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

No he probably shouldn't have been - the road is barely wide enough for my trailer and if it wasn't for the fact I live along it I would not take a trailer along this stretch of road! It's very steep and winding with a house at an awkward angle right of the steepest bend so a challenge at the best of times! We have had a lot of problems locally with HGV's lately and hopefully signage will be put in to stop this happening. Time to write to the local parish council.....



I thought that was the problem, but thought I might be able to move it if I removed the horse. However, seems not..... Unfortunately, the driver was Polish and didn't have any English so we couldn't even begin to explain the problem. He just kept gesturing for me to reverse up the hill and gesturing it was me that couldn't drive. Wish now I had just stood my ground - he could have reversed downhill where there were a number of passing places. You live and learn......

I bet by the time he got to wherever he was going, he wished had found a different route! I doubt you were the only driver he had to negotiate that day - and I wouldn't be surprised if you were the nicest of the lot towards him. I guess he was using a car SATNAV rather than a HGV one.

 

[1523679]

I’ve come to the conclusion that whatever overseas HGV tests involve, they don’t include much compulsory manoeuvring ? I’ve had a few huge reverses in order to save an HGV driver 10ft of going backwards, and have had to call the police to assist one who got himself totally stuck when he was GPS-lost in a housing estate. (Also a Polish driver, and terribly apologetic for causing so much trouble. My OH is still Facebook-friends with him.)

Well done you for keeping your hair on and getting through it. If the haulage company is UK-based it’s definitely worth reporting the incident and referring your insurance company for any damage caused.

 

[shortstuff99]

We keep having similar problems near where I live. There is a narrow, weak bridge leading to the town that is not suitable for HGV's. However, since the new A14 opened they keep getting lost, follow a satnav and ignore all the signs and keep going over the bridge. It's really annoying!

 

[Quigleyandme]

What a horrible experience for you. I lived in Devon. It was sadly not uncommon to meet people in the lanes who would no more roll back a couple of metres than fly to the moon. They seem to think they have an inalienable right to the road. This driver was probably really stressed finding himself in this landscape but that is no excuse for being so unreasonable.

 

[luckyoldme]

Im going to be honest here as a trucker.
Its hard to say for sure without being there but I think from what you have said the trucker sounds like a bit of a knob.
Usually I would allways give way to the vehicle going uphill and expect oncoming traffic to do the same for me..but if the other driver is unsure and i felt confident then it would make sense for me to reverse.
I think you must have met a really crap driver!

 

[asmp]

I was once made to reverse quite a few hundred metres around bends while towing after having met a HGV coming the other way on a narrow road. Not being the best at reversing, especially when I have an audience I didn’t do a very good job of it. A chap tried to help but he was as bad as me! In the end we unloaded horse and daughter hacked home and I managed to back into a driveway. I feel for you - it was very stressful and we held up the traffic for ages.

A friend told me that when something similar had happened to her she turned her engine off and refused to move. The HGV then had to reverse.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

A friend told me that when something similar had happened to her she turned her engine off and refused to move. The HGV then had to reverse.

And that is exactly what I would have done! Narrow roads, such as the one that OP describes, are not suitable for HGVs and they should not use them.

 

[luckyoldme]

And that is exactly what I would have done! Narrow roads, such as the one that OP describes, are not suitable for HGVs and they should not use them.

How do they get feed to farms ?
How do they get milk out of farms?
Etc etc etc.

 

[milliepops]

How do they get feed to farms ?
How do they get milk out of farms?
Etc etc etc.

well, this. plus it might not even be a truck you meet, but a combine, or a tractor with a trailer (OH tows a bale sledge behind the small baler and that makes for an irritating train that really only goes forward successfully ) there's always the chance you'll meet something huge that has to use the road.

 

[Cloball]

Should he have actually been there at all, most of the narrow roads round here have signs saying 'unsuitable for HGVs'?

This doesn't seem to matter. When I lived in the lakes there were a few unsuitable roads that were always having to have the walls taken down to free wedged HGVs. I must say I had forgotten the give way to those going up hill as I always seem to be the one who has to reverse regardless ? and then someone has the bright idea of overtaking me from being after I've tucked in ?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

well, this. plus it might not even be a truck you meet, but a combine, or a tractor with a trailer (OH tows a bale sledge behind the small baler and that makes for an irritating train that really only goes forward successfully ) there's always the chance you'll meet something huge that has to use the road.

I have no idea where OP's incident happened, I was thinking of my local roads, where only a HGV that doesn't know the area would be on them. We don't have combines and tractors with trailers/bales would go round a different way. Our tractors aren't enormous, either. There is a farm machinery sales place nearby and only one road suitable, so that's the one they use. It is perfectly obvious that OP (or I in the same position) could see that the vehicle in question was a HGV, tractors weren't mentioned. Tractor drivers would know that trailers can't reverse uphill, too.

 

[Keith_Beef]

The vehicle going uphill has right of way. But just because you can, doesn't mean you should. The HGV driver was almost certainly using the wrong kind of GPS for his vehicle, and yes, he should have been able to reverse along the road he had just driven along forwards.

A road sign indicating "unsuitable for HGVs" is purely informative and doesn't have the same force as one indicating "forbidden to vehicles over [a specific weight]", I think that the OP is right to write to the local authority to get appropriate signs installed.

Somerset council has an informative page about this.

A single track road leading to a farm should be maintained in a state to allow the traffic expected along it, including HGVs and agricultural vehicles, the drivers should be competent to drive along it (not only be good enough drivers, but also know the road well enough) and presumably there would be little chance of meeting oncoming traffic.

 

[Red-1]

I think I too would have been upset and a sweaty mess, but don't think I would go as far as to contact the company - apart from the bit where they unhitched the trailer, if you genuinely couldn't stop them, but then I would have called the Police at that point.

I think it is a bit rich saying that they shouldn't be on the road if they can't reverse if you are also saying that you can't reverse.

When I had trailers, many years ago, there was a bracket that you had to get out and move to reverse. The brakes came on when the tow hitch was compressed into the chassis of the trailer, so you could not reverse without getting out and moving the bracket, which was a rudimentary device to physically stop the tow hitch compressing towards the chassis, hence stopping the brakes activating. Of course, you then had to remember to get out and remove the bracket or the brakes wouldn't work whilst driving.

Has the design changed so it is now impossible to reverse uphill, regardless of situation? How do people cope who store trailers up a slope (as we did) so have to reverse them up for storage? What about hapless people who drive downhill into a parking slot at a horse event? How do they reverse uphill out of their parking slot? I can only presume that there is still the old bracket or modern alternative to allow uphill reversing?

 

[luckyoldme]

The vehicle going uphill has right of way. But just because you can, doesn't mean you should. The HGV driver was almost certainly using the wrong kind of GPS for his vehicle, and yes, he should have been able to reverse along the road he had just driven along forwards.

A road sign indicating "unsuitable for HGVs" is purely informative and doesn't have the same force as one indicating "forbidden to vehicles over [a specific weight]", I think that the OP is right to write to the local authority to get appropriate signs installed.

Somerset council has an informative page about this.

A single track road leading to a farm should be maintained in a state to allow the traffic expected along it, including HGVs and agricultural vehicles, the drivers should be competent to drive along it (not only be good enough drivers, but also know the road well enough) and presumably there would be little chance of meeting oncoming traffic.

I dont think the op mentioned anything about an unsuitable for hgv sign..it was introduced by another poster
These back roads are horrendous for trucks and most if us would rather not use them.
Quite often these things end in a stupid power struggle stand off and personally i would have reversed if the driver of the horsebox and trailer wasnt confident to do so.
We drive these things all day every day and are expected to get them into some tight spots..in theory we should be more confident.
My advice to the op is to get that trailer hitched and take it somewhere quiet and spend a couple of hours practicing.
You learn how to drive after you pass the test.

 

[Keith_Beef]

the HGV driver on a single track road that is unsuitable for heavy vehicles whose sat nave clearly had brought him the wrong way.

OP mentioned that the road was unsuitable for HGVs, but you're right that she didn't explicitly state that there was already signage.

Time to write to the local parish council.....

To get appropriate signage installed, either for the first time, or it is justified and if funds permit the "extensive surveying" that is required (see the Somerset council page), make the way prohibited to vehicles over a certain length, width or weight. And then hope that this gets included in satnav updates, and that HGV drivers are correctly using appropriate and up to date devices.

I dont think the op mentioned anything about an unsuitable for hgv sign..it was introduced by another poster
These back roads are horrendous for trucks and most if us would rather not use them.
Quite often these things end in a stupid power struggle stand off and personally i would have reversed if the driver of the horsebox and trailer wasnt confident to do so.
We drive these things all day every day and are expected to get them into some tight spots..in theory we should be more confident.
My advice to the op is to get that trailer hitched and take it somewhere quiet and spend a couple of hours practicing.
You learn how to drive after you pass the test.

Yes, definitely. I've never driven with a trailer on the road, and I would definitely take a lesson or practice for a while with an unladen trailer like you suggest...

A couple of weeks ago, talking with OH and her brother about the amount of stuff we were going to haul back home from the holiday home, he proposed we could borrow his trailer. I told him I'd never pulled one, and wondered about reversing. His solution is "If I need to back the trailer into a space, I unhitch it and move it by hand".


You sound like my mum as well as my driving instructor when you say "you learn how to drive after you pass the test".

 

[Tiddlypom]

When I had trailers, many years ago, there was a bracket that you had to get out and move to reverse. The brakes came on when the tow hitch was compressed into the chassis of the trailer, so you could not reverse without getting out and moving the bracket, which was a rudimentary device to physically stop the tow hitch compressing towards the chassis, hence stopping the brakes activating. Of course, you then had to remember to get out and remove the bracket or the brakes wouldn't work whilst driving.

The old pin thing has long been discontinued, but I had one on my rice eventer trailer. Very crude, and somewhat dangerous - if you crept forward over the give way line at a junction to see if the way was clear, you couldn’t back up if something was coming unless someone got out of the vehicle to pull the damn reversing pin put. Then put it back in...

Modern trailers have auto reverse brakes - no pin. I‘ve never had my trailer brakes jam on when reversing uphill, is that a known thing, then?

Traffic coming downhill should give way to traffic climbing uphill, but common sense needs to be involved - neither party should have to reverse round blind bends unless there is no other option. This HGV driver sounds right out of his depth, and the company should be told.

 

[GinaGeo]

I know my Ifor Williams Trailer (admittedly it is 16 years old) needs a damn good shove sometimes to get it into reverse. Our old Jeep would have got it back up the hill laden, but it would have taken some welly. A lesser car would have struggled I think.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

How do they get feed to farms ?
How do they get milk out of farms?
Etc etc etc.

I've just noticed this. They get feed to farms by parking on the accessible road and delivering feed on a fork-lift. That is a regular occurrence here, we don't have milk tankers, or indeed dairy farms, all our farms have either sheep or beef cattle.
We can't get our horsebox home. It lives on a neighbour's land and we load the horses on the road, because *the roads aren't wide enough*.

 

[milliepops]

I've just noticed this. They get feed to farms by parking on the accessible road and delivering feed on a fork-lift. That is a regular occurrence here, we don't have milk tankers, or indeed dairy farms, all our farms have either sheep or beef cattle.
We can't get our horsebox home. It lives on a neighbour's land and we load the horses on the road, because *the roads aren't wide enough*.

as you hadn't seen LOM's post that I replied to, now i understand your response to me a bit better (or at least, I'll stop trying to apply it to my post which was agreeing with her! )

loads of farms down single track roads round here, lots of tractors, lots of tankers, lots of feed lorries using the lanes, directly accessing the farm gates. it's pretty normal in many areas to have to squish by each other. on the whole the smaller vehicle gives way to the bigger one, sort of courtesy IMO for whoever has the easier thing to manoeuvre to do so, though it does happen that you have 2 things with trailers meeting each other and that's what I was getting at earlier.. even if you're in a horsebox, that wouldn't mean you could trump something else that was towing, just cos you had a horse on and it was annoying to reverse

 

[JGC]

I was actually looking at the Highway Code on this because, although I have always understood that the person going uphill has priority and in France, the higher class of vehicle also has priority, so I was thinking theoretically, you had to give way, but frankly taking the horse out of the trailer sounds potentially the most dangerous thing to do, so how could he have been in the right to make you do that.

So the rule says:

155.Single-track roads. These are only wide enough for one vehicle. They may have special passing places. If you see a vehicle coming towards you, or the driver behind wants to overtake, pull into a passing place on your left, or wait opposite a passing place on your right. Give way to vehicles coming uphill whenever you can. If necessary, reverse until you reach a passing place to let the other vehicle pass. Slow down when passing pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders.

So to me, he didn't have an absolute right of way. So good on you for contacting the hauliers and I'm glad you all came out unscathed. I have nightmares about this kind of scenario with the horses. Well done you for getting through it!