Rosette stealers !!!!!

[Nancykitt]

To be fair though we don't know anything about the rest of the class - for all we know the Welshie may have been streets ahead of the others even with the manners (and it WAS a novice class) taken in to account. Having seen patchy 'Dartmoor' ponies, jumping ponies with scarred legs, stargazers with ewe necks, ponies with collapsed crests and lame ponies in the M&M classes locally all with their owners no doubt absolutely assured of their right to be in the class it does make you wonder what the rest of the line up was like!

I'm not going to pretend to know a great deal but there were certainly some nice ponies there who behaved extremely well. A few seemed unsettled by the poor behaviour of the 'winner', actually.

 

[WelshD]

I'm not going to pretend to know a great deal but there were certainly some nice ponies there who behaved extremely well. A few seemed unsettled by the poor behaviour of the 'winner', actually.

But the judge in most cases WOULD know a great deal. We need to be able to trust their judgement

A nice pony isn't necessarily one that is true to type and correctly presented

the judge must have known it may not be a popular winner but do they put their knowledge and experience aside and choose a lesser pony to win?

 

[ester]

sorry but it still sounds like a crap judge. The judge was not put in an awkward position by anyone provided she judged what was in front of her not the face on top of the pony. If I were judging she would have been last no matter how well the horse was put together because I cannot stand ridden horses that do not have even basic manners and I dont pander to faces.
She put herself in the awkward position and consiquently ended up with bad feeling.

I imagine she would have been sent out in many rings.

 

[MagicMelon]

Thing is, surely its up to the organisers to correctly describe each class. If they had put something like "for riders in their first season competing" or "not to have been placed 1st - 3rd in a blah blah class" then this girl probably wouldn't have entered, if they leave it open to anyone then of course you end up with people going in for these sorts of classes.

I also find it a bit weird some of you have said you think its weird that some people who are out winning regularly shouldn't be competing at local level, why not? They're probably doing it purely for fun! I show for fun (it's not really my thing but its something different), if I won every time I went out (I wish!) then I would still continue to go to the same shows because I wouldn't want to travel hours to big proper shows and spend a fortune on it, I don't think people should be slated for that. Also even the best horses who will go on to be HOYS Champions need to start somewhere... and I swear some of them are just born stunning and beautifully schooled

Anyway, at the end of the day we all know judges only choose 'the name' so it doesn't matter who else is in the class, he he

 

[MagicMelon]

It's not just young kiddie classes... I took one of our babies to a local show to do a novice workers - so 2ft/2ft3 was won by a girl I presumed was on a youngster or just happy at that height who I then saw competing in the open workers - 3ft/3ft3!

Just because the horse can jump the height, doesn't mean it can make it look good! If it was good at the 3ft height (and therefore did well prior) then surely it wouldn't have been eligible to enter the little class? In my area, a novice WH class states "not to have been placed 1st - 3rd more than three times in any WH class" or something along those lines.

 

[ozpoz]

Nancykitt - "crying,swearing and storming off"? over a placing at a little show is completely ridiculous. People should concentrate on the contents of their picnic basket, and stop being so stupid. It is a little show, not some major life changing event. Who gives a toss if the judge doesn't like your horse? It is only an opinion, on the day.

This is mad.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

So because you dont understand the rules that automaticly makes those that do pot hunters?

First ridden is to find a pony suitable to take a child off leadrein, it is not a class for novice riders though there is an age limit on it. If that suitable pony happens to be ridden by a very good rider who can show the pony off to the best and the pony is the correct type, has manners to burn and goes correctly then it should win and it is fully within the rules.
If you want something judged on the rider alone then go for an equitation class.

The ponies didn't go correctly, about a quarter of them were cantering on the wrong leg, (the winner included), with the riders towards the lower end of the row trotting on the wrong diagonal and the ponies were extremely overbent. Manners to burn - no, if I'm correct, bucking & spooking is not safe or normally acceptable behavior.

 

[Nancykitt]

Nancykitt - "crying,swearing and storming off"? over a placing at a little show is completely ridiculous. People should concentrate on the contents of their picnic basket, and stop being so stupid. It is a little show, not some major life changing event. Who gives a toss if the judge doesn't like your horse? It is only an opinion, on the day.

This is mad.

I agree with you. And I was just a spectator. I do think that people take it all too seriously at times.
But perhaps that's where some of the problems lie. We've got people who shouldn't be taking it too seriously competing against people who are taking it all very seriously indeed.
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the only one who's witnessed this sort of behaviour at local shows. And there have been plenty of 'pony club mothers' threads on here in the past. The behaviour of some people does leave a lot to be desired.

 

[ester]

if no one took it seriously no one would need to get uptight about being beaten by whoever on whatever

I don't think you can declare anyone a pot hunter if they are on badly behaved ponies/don't get the right leg, and in not sure diagonals usually matter showing! Judge is looking at the horse, even dressage their can be reasons for rising 'wrong'.

 

[Nancykitt]

I don't think you can declare anyone a pot hunter if they are on badly behaved ponies/don't get the right leg, and in not sure diagonals usually matter showing! Judge is looking at the horse, even dressage their can be reasons for rising 'wrong'.

I may have been misled, but I thought that manners were really important in showing? My daughter did some ridden showing at local level with our cob who rarely won because he had a few 'moments' every now and again (although he always did well in hand). On more than one occasion she was told that he was a really good stamp of a cob but was let down because of his lapse in manners at times, which we fully accepted.

Is it really just about the horse's conformation rather than its way of going and/or manners? Or does it depend on the judge? I've never done an actual showing class myself so I'm pretty clueless about this sort of thing.

 

[ester]

You misunderstand me, manners are very important, that is why the kids that Equi is talking about surely aren't pot hunters if they aren't on push button well behaved ponies.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

We were at a show at the weekend with a novice pony at her second show. Pony is not established in canter and is not ready for a group canter so entered the only walk/trot class. Someone challenged the judge saying pony didn't look like a novice but judge asked for info before class went ahead and pony won. Pony may look very beautiful and showy but she is still a novice. We only went for that class. We may have looked like pot hunters because the pony is a true show type, but we were not. In contrast, at a previous show, the overall supreme was an ex Hoys winner-at a riding club show.

 

[Ddraig_wen]

There's so many rosette hunters locally to us here. Ponies and horses that have competed nationally, are owned by producers, been to hoys, produced professionally etc and they turn up to the local riding club shows. Its thoroughly disheartening to spend hours bathing and plaiting to get there and find you've got two horses with rihs tickets in the class plus several other produced horses. The kids classes are even worse, leadreins that enter the first ridden moments later, or swap jockies between ponies both of which have been in the leadrein. etc etc

 

[fatpiggy]

We were at a show at the weekend with a novice pony at her second show. Pony is not established in canter and is not ready for a group canter so entered the only walk/trot class. Someone challenged the judge saying pony didn't look like a novice but judge asked for info before class went ahead and pony won. Pony may look very beautiful and showy but she is still a novice. We only went for that class. We may have looked like pot hunters because the pony is a true show type, but we were not. In contrast, at a previous show, the overall supreme was an ex Hoys winner-at a riding club show.

The trouble is that there are so many people who think they know it all but can't see the characteristics of a true novice horse- as you say unbalanced or not confident in canter. All they see is the pretty pony and good turn-out and condemn them on the spot.

 

[daisy123]

Not fair is it? I went in walk on trot then onto ridden novice because it was my girls first ridden show and I wanted to see how well she went before entering her into novice. We took 2nd place and a young girl took 1st which I was very happy about. I will not be entering walk/trot again though as we are past that stage now! Think it needs clamping down on to give others a fair chance!

 

[peaceandquiet1]

fatpiggy in the championship her novice status was confirmed to onlookers when she spooked badly at a rider falling off in the next ring as they passed each other-it was obvious then to all that she was inexperienced.

 

[lakesidedreamer]

Yes, at my local show there is a lady who enters and wins every class she can with her lovely cob, who really should be at a much higher level now - she has been doing this for 10+ years! How boring.
I remember a few years ago as a 14 year old entering the coloured class and coming third behind her and a professional producer on a spotted horse. Both lovely horses of course, but definitely above local show level.
Put me right off and I haven't entered another showing class since!

haha - oh it sounds like you might be local to me - local woman who rides her *DUBLIN* horse in walk trot classes against riding school kids! It's a joke.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I can see this from both points of view but here is my case for opinion. I aquired a very pretty coloured horse quite a few months ago that had never been showing and had always evented. He had been due to be put down for reasons I wont go into but suffice to say I now have a beautiful, horse of lifetime that is fit, well and sound after a lot of blood, sweat, tears and expense.
We decided to take him in hand showing to our local show as due to my illness (I have Lupus, RA and kidney disease) I didnt feel ready to ride him in the class. He won the coloured, got placed in the other two but went on to win in hand champion. We were delighted.
A couple of weeks later we took him to the same venue but for an affliated BSPA show ad again he won in hand champion beating a top producer.
Yesterday he went back to the show and he won in hand champion and a friend of mine (young girl just left school so not a producer) rode him in two ridden classes, he won both of those and went on to win ridden champion. Very few people turned up to the show due to the previous days weather so there wasnt a huge amount of competition.
My dilema now is when I feel ready to ride him in a show and his canter is more balanced do I not go back to that lovely, small show for fear people will think I am a pot hunter or do I overface myself at bigger shows that the organisers arnt aware of my disabilities? Basically do I not go where I'm comfortable just because my pretty horse has won there before. I dont want to take him back as would hate people to think I was a rosette stealer.

Just my opinion but you know the horse is better than that level, it's consistently winning there. If you don't feel confident to move up a level then go back there where you feel comfortable but to enter HC would be the decent thing to do. It was your choice to enter him in hand and with another rider, had you waited until you felt confident to ride him you could have experienced those wins under saddle yourself.

I do think there is a lot of pot hunting about and it's bad sportsmanship in my eyes. There are good riders and well schooled horses, combinations who have never competed and are therefore eligible for the rules of even local shows stating "not to have won this class before" and I've no problem with such people entering, but once you're regularly being placed and winning you should move on up IMO.

I think unaffiliated dressage shows need more rules too, with all the people who won't go above prelim level. OK they might meet the rules of the class but it's still bad sportsmanship. If you're going for a fun day out, as warm up for a later class, for ring experience for the horse etc and you know you are capable of working at a level above then enter HC. There's just no need for people to be pot hunters. It's selfish.

I was on a yard with a girl whose parents had bought her a 10k dressage horse that had been professionally produced. She was entering it in the local shows with everyone else on their ponies bought from the local dealer (who got them 2wks ago from the sale before breaking and selling them) or from the local riding school. This girls horse was in a different league, used to win everything, getting lots of admiration just for existing and the girl lapped up the attention. Why buy a 10k horse, keep it on a down at heel livery yard and never take it out to a decent level of competition? Maybe there was no money left after buying the horse but entering all the local shows really wasn't fair on the other competitors whose horses, with all the training in the world, would never rival hers.

I really think local low level "fun" shows should be just that - fun. For average riders and their horses/ponies. Not for serious competitive people, who already have a system of showing associations and affiliated dressage/jumping classes set up for them.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Why should they have to go HC? they pay the same money as everyone else and sometimes people are comfortable doing what they are doing and enjoy it. sometimes they dont want to try something new, they may not jump, they may not want to go fast (games) they may not feel comfortable going any higher and why should they have to?
Personaly I've climbed snowdon 5 times in the last year, why? because I enjoy the walk. not because its a challenge or difficult but because I can have a lovely walk, a natter with friends and enjoy the view from the top. so tell me why should I go climb some other mountain?

It's different because there's no sport involved in you going to walk up a mountain. It's not a competition, by walking up the mountain you're not entering anything, you're not dashing the hopes of those new to competing before they've had a chance to compete anywhere ever. If it was a mountain walking competition and you were a seasoned mountain walker and entering a novice mountain walk, knowing you'd be better at it than most who would be there, I'd say shame on you.

 

[Illusion100]

Been watching this thread for a while now and I think that if you have a horse that has done very well at a lower level but rider/handler doesn't want to move up, then they should enter H/C, as after all they have nothing to prove but can still enter at the level they are happy to do.

When I finally get my horse out and about he will most likely be 6, schooling higher at home than the unaffiliated competitions I will first enter him into and of course logically, we shall do well (my head is in hysterics laughing at me here). I want him to find venturing out and competing enjoyable as he should hopefully find he has the confidence to do the more basic work easily while absorbing the environment and therefore have a great time.

If he did fab (there goes the laughter in my head again) but I don't feel he's ready to move up just yet, then I would be happy to go H/C until that time.

So most likely at this 1st comp, he will not be the age/level of a very novice horse but it will be his first time out nonetheless whether or not it looks like it. Some will probably accuse me of being a rosette stealer....