Rosette stealers !!!!!

tubby1

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Having slight rage tonight. I went to watch a local showing show today and was completely gobsmacked at the number of serious showing folk who were competing. for example there was a novice ridden class ( walk/trot only ) which was won by a child that then asked to leave the ring proceeded to canter to the working hunter ring and jump 70 cm very competently. why do people feel the need to get rosettes in classes that are for new combinations or beginners. Showing at this level is a farce.
 

Tobiano

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I know what you mean! I am so glad I don't have a child of that age as I think it is terribly sad when they don't stand a chance at all. I remember the one and only showing class that my daughter did aged 14 - it was a local family horse class, and her horse was the ONLY one who stood still in the line up (which was interminable) but loads of badly behaved fancy pants showing horses were placed ahead of them. I blame the pushy parents!!
 

tubby1

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It is soul destroying my friends little girl spent ages getting her pony ready ( typical normal first ridden) looked immaculate, pony behaved great and was placed last behind lots of long legged pigtailed serious showers. With naughty poncy types it drives me mad
 

Moomin1

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Yep it's shocking. I also find that a lot of people who should know a lot better what classes they are entering (ie professional producers etc) tend to enter classes which they know they shouldn't be in with particular horses. For instance, at a local show last year, a professional producer entered a horse into the hunter class, and won, and then went straight into the riding horse class with a change of browband from plain to coloured, and won that, under the same judge. How on earth can a hunter type possibly be a riding horse type also? Farce.
 

tubby1

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Totally agree Moomin I feel these shows should be for the ordinary owners to to enjoy / experience showing and it doesn't happen. As you say it's the lies that are told.
 

GemG

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I believe it's called 'pot hunters'.

It's a shame actually and can put off some really genuine 'first ponies/novices etc and more.
 

JLD

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We did a LR rider class recently, just for fun , my little girl has only ridden a short while so we knew we would come last but we were there so joined in. However it was for up to age 11 and the first 3 left the ring were unclipped from the lead and went straight into the 60 cm jumping cantering round off lead ! Didn't affect us but really felt for the genuine competitors who didn't stand a chance.
 

Jo1987

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Yes, at my local show there is a lady who enters and wins every class she can with her lovely cob, who really should be at a much higher level now - she has been doing this for 10+ years! How boring.
I remember a few years ago as a 14 year old entering the coloured class and coming third behind her and a professional producer on a spotted horse. Both lovely horses of course, but definitely above local show level.
Put me right off and I haven't entered another showing class since!
 

MargotC

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I only really competed at local levels as my interests always were elsewhere, but we had a couple of regulars that could be trusted to enter the lower classes below 1m as warmup for the bigger ones and who as such were always guaranteed to win. It never failed. The same horses and riders (who were quite grown I might add) then went on to sweep the bigger classes later in the day as well. How intentional this was I know not, but it was discouraging to know you would find yourself just outside the placings because of it. One woman in particular would do the same in dressage classes.

The irony is of course that we who were younger and still learning used to look up to these riders when in training. They were inspiring to watch... until you repeatedly had your efforts on the big day stomped by their 'warmup routine'.

I must stress this is not a case of me being a bad loser. I am really not competitive at all. But I do think an experienced horse/rider combination should enter classes accordingly. I'd think differently if it was a new horse/rider combination or it was a green horse/experienced rider or vice versa. It is when it is done time and time again that it gets discouraging.
 

tubby1

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MargotC I think you hit the nail on the head. My daughter doesn't expect to win and Isn't a bad loser She justs expects. to compete on a level playing field. We only show for fun and only occaisionally but always seem to come awy with a bad taste in our mouths. Perhaps she should stick to jumping / dressage at least then opinions don't really matter.
 

suffolkmare

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Such a shame...it sounds like the judges need educating/reminding that when judging a grass-roots local show to look out for "over-qualified" entries and challenge what they've already done/won. As for the same judge placing a horse in both hunter and riding horse class, I hope the club wont ask them back! My club does a "proper" showing show in spring and this year's annual show in September is aimed lower as a "fun" show with adult and junior novices in mind, so hope it works out ok.
 
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A lot of local shows near me seem to have rules that combinations entering beginner classes are then not eligible for higher level classes on the same day. I assumed this was common?
 

ester

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Yep it's shocking. I also find that a lot of people who should know a lot better what classes they are entering (ie professional producers etc) tend to enter classes which they know they shouldn't be in with particular horses. For instance, at a local show last year, a professional producer entered a horse into the hunter class, and won, and then went straight into the riding horse class with a change of browband from plain to coloured, and won that, under the same judge. How on earth can a hunter type possibly be a riding horse type also? Farce.
Did it win the riding horse too? Perhaps they were just trying to get it more ring experience and IME at local shows the hunter class is often a plethora of types! A friend has a Riding horse who would pass as a small hunter too.

I'd rather have a few more serious showing people about tbh. Frank is definitely a type that is below anything going affiliated at any level but he seems to hold his own after that even at 22 and would give a nicer ride than many, he always gets nice comments. We've experienced some interesting decision at times but just roll eyes and accept that is showing and don't do it too often :D.
 

MargotC

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MargotC I think you hit the nail on the head. My daughter doesn't expect to win and Isn't a bad loser She justs expects. to compete on a level playing field. We only show for fun and only occaisionally but always seem to come awy with a bad taste in our mouths. Perhaps she should stick to jumping / dressage at least then opinions don't really matter.
Yes, I think when you enter and do your best, it's not so much expecting to do better than everyone else as expecting the result list to at least accurately reflect the competition at the end of the day. And the only way to do that is to have an as evenly matched field as possible. Which you'd think is rather the point of having classes in the first place or else you could just pile everyone together..!

That's a nice thing with jumping or dressage tests at least. You can look at how you actually did in terms of poles knocked down or how your movements are scored (provided you have a neutral unbiased dressage judge).

I should add, my first post does not include shows under British rules but we do have some restrictions here as well. I think the fact it was a local venue was what meant you accepted a bigger experience range within smaller classes. Still unfortunate.
 

ester

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Also I think you can usually tell the level of seriousness from the schedule/spread of the classes/what else is on that weekend. My old RC used to run a showing show over easter- before all the county shows start and it would be heaving with people out for a practice before them. There do seem to be plenty of kids shows/fun shows/novice only shows advertised around here. Including those with classes for teddybears ;).
 

ChesnutsRoasting

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Pothunters are in every type of showing. Sad. It's like the twit who gets a first & brags yet was the only one in the class! Some folks will do anything for a rosette by means fair or foul.
 

DragonSlayer

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At a fair-sized village show last year, the person who won the novice went on to win the open. I didn't know the person had entered the open as we went home (relative borrowed my horse) else I would have lodged a complaint. Sent an email asking for justification to this but never got a reply even though the committee acknowledged receipt. Needless to say, they won't get our support this year.
 

Moomin1

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That's a nice thing with jumping or dressage tests at least. You can look at how you actually did in terms of poles knocked down or how your movements are scored (provided you have a neutral unbiased dressage judge).

.
Mm I'm not convinced that dressage isn't any less subjective tbh. The varying scores given out despite obvious standard differences is quite shocking.
 

WelshD

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We did a LR rider class recently, just for fun , my little girl has only ridden a short while so we knew we would come last but we were there so joined in. However it was for up to age 11 and the first 3 left the ring were unclipped from the lead and went straight into the 60 cm jumping cantering round off lead ! Didn't affect us but really felt for the genuine competitors who didn't stand a chance.
but if the other competitors were under 11 then they were genuine competitors too! unless stated in the schedule the ability of the rider doesn't come in to it
 

Moomin1

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but if the other competitors were under 11 then they were genuine competitors too! unless stated in the schedule the ability of the rider doesn't come in to it
To be fair, a kid who can jump a 60cm course off the lead is certainly not within the realms of a lead rein class. Lead rein classes are designed for those who aren't ready to come off the lead rein.
 

nervous nelly

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I think it depends I don't agree with doing it all the time but we have been doing 80 and 90 classes this season but after a disaster last weekend we took Tom back to 70 to make sure he hadn't lost his confidence the week before, he won the 70cm with the only clear I'm sure there were plenty of people today who said we were pot hunting but sometimes there is a genuine reason for jumping a smaller class than normal x
 

ester

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To be fair, a kid who can jump a 60cm course off the lead is certainly not within the realms of a lead rein class. Lead rein classes are designed for those who aren't ready to come off the lead rein.
Well not technically, it is designed to show off ponies suitable for riders on the lead rein... ie small ones! I imagine a lot of lead rein riders are very capable of going round a course of jumps unaided though 11 is quite old, I think usually it is 8.
 

BroadfordQueen

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On the other hand, I took my coloured horse into our first ever showing class last year, just at a local RC show. Neither of us had done a jot of showing as we are "eventers". Didn't have a clue what I was doing but with the help of a few showing bods from my yard we were both immaculately turned out, and we did a decent show and won. Que lots of snide comments when we came out of the ring, "she obviously usually competes at county level and is just pot hunting". we had to start somewhere, But to be honest it was my first and last foray into showing, the attitude of the other competitors totally put me off!
 

Moomin1

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On the other hand, I took my coloured horse into our first ever showing class last year, just at a local RC show. Neither of us had done a jot of showing as we are "eventers". Didn't have a clue what I was doing but with the help of a few showing bods from my yard we were both immaculately turned out, and we did a decent show and won. Que lots of snide comments when we came out of the ring, "she obviously usually competes at county level and is just pot hunting". we had to start somewhere, But to be honest it was my first and last foray into showing, the attitude of the other competitors totally put me off!
That's fair enough though! I don't think anyone is saying anyone who wins at local level should automatically compete county level. I think the gripe is more those who continuously pot hunt at lower levels when they clearly are more than capable of realising what level they should be at.
 

WelshD

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To be fair, a kid who can jump a 60cm course off the lead is certainly not within the realms of a lead rein class. Lead rein classes are designed for those who aren't ready to come off the lead rein.
A lead rein class in the vast majority of cases is designed to find the most suitable lead rein pony

You get the odd class at local level that is intended to be a beginners class but beyond that its about the pony not the rider.

If shows don't intend capable riders to take part then they need to make this clear in the schedule and if people are unhappy they need to ask the show for clarification in future or if they think they are in the right lodge a complaint

Most of the complaints on social media about showing are because there is a misunderstanding about what the class is all about, gypsy cobs and welsh cobs shown in show cob classes for example
 

JLD

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Not sure if quoted or not - but re the lead rein class - it was a lead rein rider class , as I said in my first post not lead rein pony - it was judging the rider not the pony. There was also very novice rider, and novice rider for those just off . The lead rein pony classes were separate.
 
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