RSPCA shoots 11 HEALTHY horses but claimed keep fees for months

[dymented]

How many more animals must suffer at the hands of this despicable charity ,They lie , fabricate evidence ,Bribe , threaten and intimidate people all the time ,They kill far more animals than any other charity they wast countless donations on failed prosecution ,Would it not have been far more charitable of the rspca to help the woman out with the horses rather than intimidating her to signing them over killing the animals then prosecuting her Its the animals that suffer when the rspca get involved they take a few photos for publicity then often destroy the animals saying they was suffering and the public believe them

 

[minesadouble]

The only need for a licence is when an animal is euthanised, and is when the person carrying out the act is doing so for 'profit', i.e. being paid.

To support fatpiggy's post, shooting the messenger makes for little sense.

Alec.

Well he was definitley paid when he came to our place, he advertises himself as an animal communicator and comes out with some VERY bizarre statements! That is by the bye I suppose, though I would imagine he is paid in his capacity as a slaughterer by the RSPCA and I would have thought is should be important to them to use a licenced slaughterman(working on the assumption here that he is not).

I'm not in any way blaming him for his role in this incidentally but just think it a little odd that the RSPCA use him in this capacity.

If there is a current petition running to investigate the activites of the RSPCA I will happily sign it. The are, quite literally, a law unto themselves.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Re conditions at the yard and the fact there were dead horses, no I don't think anything did leak out or anybody suspect anything as they were still posting on forums etc at the time. They were very knowledgeable and charming by all counts. The issues with the horses were reported by walkers.

he is licenced I iirc
this is his history
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-dump-body-owner-s-garden-unpaid-bill-30.html
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne...s_legal_action_over_shooting_pregnant_horses/

the daughter was still competing-it seems as though horses that were still 'useful' to the Peel's were kept well, the others, including (the Peel's) family ponies were left to rot (Mouse). I do think the owners of the loaned horses have some responsibility of course, but that doesn't excuse the lies from the RSPCA or the PTS of relatively healthy animals when they are saving far poorer animals and wasting money on prosecutions and war memorials.

Also people need to ask themselves before loaning a horse-how are these people affording 30+ horses, breeding, eventing, dogs and livestock and how do they do well it without any staff? There were clues about these people but generally I think people trust animal people, especially knowledgable ones, to do the right thing ie ask owners to take back horses when they began to struggle.

I'm surprised people on here don't have any more info as to this slaughterman/communicator/horse rehabber. We need slaughtermen so wouldnt want him victimised for doing his job. He does seem to have been involved in a few shootings of loan horses-is there no prerogative for slaughtermen to check who's giving the order in a non-emergency situation?

How much does the RSPCA pay to keep rescue horses at private yards? What do they pay to get them rehabbed by say Wilson? Doesn't the GG centre take in RSPCA cases too? What a shame the FOI act doesnt apply to charities.

 

[Tiddlypom]

How much does the RSPCA pay to keep rescue horses at private yards? What do they pay to get them rehabbed by say Wilson? Doesn't the GG centre take in RSPCA cases too? What a shame the FOI act doesnt apply to charities.

I don't know the figures, but certainly the RSPCA puts some rescue horses into 'private boarding'. My foster filly had spent at least some of her rehab (from starvation) in such a facility.

The trouble is, the RSPCA are full to bursting, they cannot take in every animal. Most of their employees and volunteers are doing their best with the resources available to them.

 

[dymented]

I don't know the figures, but certainly the RSPCA puts some rescue horses into 'private boarding'. My foster filly had spent at least some of her rehab (from starvation) in such a facility.

The trouble is, the RSPCA are full to bursting, they cannot take in every animal. Most of their employees and volunteers are doing their best with the resources available to them.

I am quite sure they could spend some of there £140,000,000 they have looking after a few more animals rather than killing them all they are far from bursting point as you claim they often tell the public there full up to generate more revenue nothing more they seem to think they are above any law these days

 

[ester]

the daughter was still competing-it seems as though horses that were still 'useful' to the Peel's were kept well, the others, including (the Peel's) family ponies were left to rot (Mouse). I do think the owners of the loaned horses have some responsibility of course, but that doesn't excuse the lies from the RSPCA or the PTS of relatively healthy animals when they are saving far poorer animals and wasting money on prosecutions and war memorials.

Also people need to ask themselves before loaning a horse-how are these people affording 30+ horses, breeding, eventing, dogs and livestock and how do they do well it without any staff? There were clues about these people but generally I think people trust animal people, especially knowledgable ones, to do the right thing ie ask owners to take back horses when they began to struggle.

I'm surprised people on here don't have any more info as to this slaughterman/communicator/horse rehabber. We need slaughtermen so wouldnt want him victimised for doing his job. He does seem to have been involved in a few shootings of loan horses-is there no prerogative for slaughtermen to check who's giving the order in a non-emergency situation?
.

I think he seems to do it by his own order.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I am quite sure they could spend some of there £140,000,000 they have looking after a few more animals rather than killing them all they are far from bursting point as you claim they often tell the public there full up to generate more revenue nothing more they seem to think they are above any law these days

I'm sure that there are many valid criticisms of how the RSPCA as a whole operates. I'm just pointing out that many people working for them at the sharp end are doing their best. They are not all corrupt and useless.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

The only loan where you really can actively safeguard your horse, is one from your property or the livery yard that you use.

 

[Alec Swan]

I'm sure that there are many valid criticisms of how the RSPCA as a whole operates. I'm just pointing out that many people working for them at the sharp end are doing their best. They are not all corrupt and useless.

Generally, I'd say that your right, with the odd exception which would include the Inspector (foot soldier to you and I), who apparently lied to the Court and to one of the owners, offering assurances that the horses were all fine and being cared for, when the reality was that they were already dead.

So, it seems to me, and I'm only going from what I've read and am assuming the facts to be correct;

Dead and presumably decomposing horse carcasses were found on a property. This is in direct contravention of the Law and is the responsibility of Trading Standards (failing to dispose of specified risk materials, etc.)

Despite the fact that there were those horses alive which were not the property of the person being investigated, they were 'gifted' to the rspca, presumably in an attempt to avoid prosecution. I'm not sure how they could be gifted when they weren't the property of the giver. The rspca would have been very well aware of this fact. Further, the rspca being aware that the horses which they acquired were the property of others failed to make any apparent attempts to contact the rightful owners, and if the reports are truthful, actually impeded the rightful owners in their enquiries.

Were there no claims being made to ownership, and were these animals simply abandoned, then putting down healthy horses is sadly, acceptable. The question has to be asked, just who it was who gave the instruction to kill the animals, and did they make any attempts to contact the owners? It would seem not.

It now seems, just to compound this shameful debacle, that the rspca have been found wanting in that claims were put in or made which would reveal that there have been major financial irregularities. The Court accepted that they were 'in error' which would have us wonder if you or I were to appear in Court for what most would consider to be fraud, and were we to put in a claim of "Sorry M'Lord, it was an error", would that elicit the response of "That's ok, try not to let it happen again". Unlikely!

I wonder if it's not time for the rspca to appear in front of a Parliamentary Select Committee, or if there shouldn't be a fast tracked Public Enquiry. The rspca are a publicly funded body, they appear to have a total disregard for the Law and those who provide them with an income, and I have direct evidence of their 'tactics' bringing our legal system in to disrepute.

For how much longer will this shameful conduct be permitted? I'll email them and invite them to refute any of the claims made on here and elsewhere. It would be unlikely that a reply will be forthcoming. There's total silence on here from those who are directly employed by the rspca, and are forum members. Silence implies culpability, in my view.

Alec.

 

[WelshD]

WHere were the owners of these animals which were apparently on loan? I can't believe that word didn't leak out about the conditions on the farm. Did they not go and do regular checks for themselves, however good the name of the breeders was. Plenty of so-called caring people have been caught out in the last few years being nothing of the sort. We had a chap prosecuted locally a few years back, a pillar of local horse world, Master of Hunt, breeder, high-flying show judge - prosecuted for neglect of animals on his property and banned from keeping. A year or so later I heard he was still keeping horses, but claimed they were his son's animals.

This.
I am finding it hard to get my head around the fact that at least some of these horses were on loan to the Peels yet in a close knit Arab horse community not one owner raised the alarm, are we to assume that none of these horses was checked on at any point during their decline by any owner? surely not? (absolutely genuine question)

the Dartmoor pony case is equally interesting, there are people begging to take on ponies to preserve the historic breeding lines but the RSPCA don't seem to be listening. Like the Arabs these are ponies and bloodlines worth preserving

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Apparently someone did try to alert others of their suspicions that all was not well at Templars via a post on arabianlines and the Peels had the post taken down. It involved threats of legal action from the Peels and the person who tried to alert others ended up selling a horse to someone in Sweden to keep it from the Peels.

ETA from AL

I will be contacting the Swedish horse registry as it was a gentleman there who I wrote to after I was ordered by the court to hand my mare's daughter over to them. The Peel creature rang the AHS as soon as she found out that the horse had left the country and blocked the paperwork so that the new owners were unable to register her in their name and the AHS could not send the paperwork to them. The Swedish gentleman (must look up his name) was great and although he could do nothing about the registration of the mare he allowed the new owners to register her foals so they were happy with that. She has bred some lovely foals for them and they are super people; she has a wonderful home. I knew that if she went to the Peel's she would not be looked after as by then I had heard some rumours but nothing that I could use in court as I had no proof. Had she gone there I am sure she, along with her lovely mother, would be dead.

If you are all interested I am happy to start a thread telling you all exactly what happened when I had the misfortune to meet the Peel creature.

 

[ester]

I got a bit confused about the sweden situation.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I am too, but hopefully they will start a thread that explains everything.

 

[Evie91]

I agree with fatpiggy and WelshD. A lot of these ponies were on loan. Surely the owners must take some responsibility in this for not checking.
I know nothing of the 'Arab community' but if it is as close knit as we are led to believe, surely it would have just meant one owner raised a concern then all would,have been checking up on their ponies. This obviously didn't happen - not one owner has come forward to say they were concerned, removed their pony,alerted others.
The rspca do not become involved lightly so things were bad. Neglect does not happen overnight.
Peel neglected these ponies to the point the RSPCA removed them. The owners must bear some responsibility in this - no good to be saying what you were prepared to do after the fact, why did no one act at the time?
Maybe RSPCA believed owners were compliant with the ponies treatment, maybe this is why they did not go to great efforts to trace them.
I certainly do not condone RSPCA actions (as others have said, I would have thought these ponies would have been more desirable to re home than ten a penny coloured cobs that seem to populate rescue centres) but it grates that RSPCA seem to be getting the rap. Either way they put an end to the ponies suffering - not what I would have wanted but at least they took some action - whilst others stood by and did nothing but criticise those that did!
Aargh!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

They didn't loan their horses to an unknown stranger though, who replied to an ad from a random website, they loaned to who they thought was their friend, who ran a very well known and respected stud.

It shows that you cannot trust anyone, however plausible they are. You have to see things with your own eyes regularly and if you live a long way away from where your horse is going, so can't check in person very often - don't loan.

 

[Evie91]

Think you have made a good point there Faracat - if you can't check don't loan.

The fact they were all friends and ran a stud actually raises more questions for me than it answers -surely you visit friends, would have more 'traffic' through a stud (customers, feed merchants, vet, farrier etc etc)....

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Think you have made a good point there Faracat - if you can't check don't loan.

The fact they were all friends and ran a stud actually raises more questions for me than it answers -surely you visit friends, would have more 'traffic' through a stud (customers, feed merchants, vet, farrier etc etc)....

you can still show people only what you want them to see. IME farriers tend to not gossip, they just won't go somewhere they aren't paid.
The Peel's rented their farm, there were issues over the rent (we found out recently) and the horses being shown/competed were well looked after-it was all the others that were hid in a barn and back paddocks. The Peels also own a few small parcels of land separate but local to where they were living. He was done for non-disposal of sheep back in 2007 but that wouldn't have been nationally reported, but shows there was a history of not coping with the stock they had (always with an excuse about family illness). Its very sad all round, I am sure the owners are beating themselves up.

 

[be positive]

Think you have made a good point there Faracat - if you can't check don't loan.

The fact they were all friends and ran a stud actually raises more questions for me than it answers -surely you visit friends, would have more 'traffic' through a stud (customers, feed merchants, vet, farrier etc etc)....

I think most of the problems happened over the winter so probably very few visitors, also when you have plenty of land it must be easy enough to put the poor looking ones away out of sight, a feed merchant will not be doing any more than delivering feed, the same with farrier and vet they will only attend the horses they are asked to they will not be strolling about looking for neglected horses and probably had no reason to suspect there was an issue.
The more horses you have the easier it is to hide them, also the faster things go downhill, when things do go wrong it can happen very quickly even if you are a good caring owner in the middle of winter the work can overwhelm you, not excusing the Peels in anyway but I would think the loan horses were well cared for initially then just got swept along with the ongoing neglect, the owners may have visited regularly and had no reason to be concerned so slacked off visits in the winter.

 

[Evie91]

Yes, sorry. I have re-read my post and it sounds rather harsh. My point is there were lots of failings along the way. I always find these things really upsetting, it's so hard to understand why,so many unanswered questions, so many opportunities missed.
Just feel so sorry for those horses left to suffer, just no need.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

its hard to know what makes this happen with experienced horsey folk. I spent my 16th summer in the 80s at a small riding school/livery yard working for rides. Had a ball, lots of horses and ponies that worked hard but were well cared for. Family were lovely. 18 months later they were done for neglect and I don't know how/why it happened (I moved across country). I look back at the photos and see no evidence of things going awry. Leslie Skipper was another one who knew better.

 

[SO1]

I expect with a lot of these breeders/professionals it is pride which stops them asking for help when things start to go wrong and they can't afford to look after the horses properly or have more horses than they can cope with and can't afford to employ people to help them.

Maybe the breeds societies don't come across to the members as being friendly and approachable which is why breeders having difficulty in looking after their stock don't ask for help if they get in trouble financially and don't have the resources to look after the horses properly. Or maybe they would rather take a risk with horses health hoping for a return to better times than sell to a competitor.

its hard to know what makes this happen with experienced horsey folk. I spent my 16th summer in the 80s at a small riding school/livery yard working for rides. Had a ball, lots of horses and ponies that worked hard but were well cared for. Family were lovely. 18 months later they were done for neglect and I don't know how/why it happened (I moved across country). I look back at the photos and see no evidence of things going awry. Leslie Skipper was another one who knew better.

 

[whiteroom]

Picking up on the loaned horse aspect, as a private individual who has loaned, is there any way to identify loaned horses or a register which could be checked?

 

[stencilface]

I think he seems to do it by his own order.

Indeed. He PTS a friends elderly horse, apparently the horse communicated it was ready to go, I mean WTF?!

 

[hackneylass2]

I would certainly question why someone who seems to have such a trigger-happy attitude has a rescue /livery type business, and is an animal communicator/trainer.
Is there a publicly available lookup site for licenced slaughtermen/women and Reiki Masters?

Whatever the real situation it does not look good in the publics' eye for the RSPCA to have a horse slaughterer looking after rescue horses! Fox looking after chickens IMO.

 

[EstherYoung]

Official statement from the Arab Horse Society:

The Arab Horse Society made considerable efforts to communicate with the RSPCA when the Peel horses were taken into the charity’s care but no information was forthcoming. The AHS had offers from AHS members, breeders and former owners of Peel horses, anxious to re-home them, but the RSPCA would not enter into any discussion with the Society regarding the horses.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

This does not supprise me - the attitude of the RSPCA, they have been in the limelight a lot in recent years. All negative comments from the public, jamie gray for example.

I for one am not in favour of this charity and have had a few negative incounters with them.


I will never support them financially or anything else, there was no need to shoot these poor ponies.

 

[DD]

A lesson to learn from all this is that the OWNER of a horse is also responsible for its welfare if it is loaned out to someone else. They must regularly check on the horses circumstances even if that means daily inspection. This has huge implications for the horse world and its present custom and practices.

 

[ester]

And if you cannot do daily inspection you'd sell them then these horses wouldn't be any better off?

 

[DD]

And if you cannot do daily inspection you'd sell them then these horses wouldn't be any better off?

Exactly. I think people will be reluctant to loan , selling means the new owner is responsible for the horses welfare.

 

[Fenris]

A lesson to learn from all this is that the OWNER of a horse is also responsible for its welfare if it is loaned out to someone else. They must regularly check on the horses circumstances even if that means daily inspection. This has huge implications for the horse world and its present custom and practices.

Equally important is a proper contract which details what is to be done in every eventuality you can think of. Signed by all involved. Every move of an animal should be accompanied by a paper trail created by the owner in case of an ownership dispute. See also https://theshg.wordpress.com/2015/03/23/how-do-i-prove-ownership-of-my-animal/