SACKED

[maggiestar]

I don't blame the school for dismissing her but nobody comes out of it smelling of roses. Neither the hunt sabs (why were they filming her children loading up in the first place?) nor the social media trolls who scented blood and hounded her to lose her job. They all behaved badly.
I hope the lady reflects on how this happened and keeps her temper in check around animals from now on. As for the faceless mob? Well, they'll never put their pitchforks down. We're all hunters in a way, I suppose

 

[tristar]

I think asking someone's opinion in the room who has little experience, is not going to make a judgement that will stand up in an employment tribunal. There is a process that has to be followed so that everyone should be treated fairly. When the process is not used, it means that the employer could end up having to pay compensation.
I think very often people do not read their contract of employment, and any other documents that go with it, sometimes even the people that hand them out. The mistakes usually happen when manager think they can do something, and actually they are not even following their own workplace guidelines.
Often an NDA is signed and people leave, it's just a lot quicker, you make sure you get money and a reference as part of the terms.

yes i understand that, however so many failures or bad decisions

 

[eahotson]

Institutional cowardice in the face of any kind of mob. That's the heart and soul of cancel culture.

Oh so true.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Wouldn't it be lovely if we were all just perfect and the inner chimp never got the upper (slappy) hand?

Shame we're human isn't it? Nasty, smelly imperfect things. Yuck.

 

[eahotson]

I am sorry but you wouldnt call hitting a horse road the head and kicking it in the guts cruel??? What do you call cruel then?

Starving a horse.Not getting necessary professionals such as vet farrier where necessary.Beating a horse repeatedly with an instrument.Keeping a horse in a stable 24 hours a day unless under vetinary advice.I am sure I can think of others including the real beatings I have seen given to horses at shows.The RSPCA could no doubt give you plenty of other examples.

 

[eahotson]

In a

There is absolutely no justification for violence against any other beings...to read so many don't understand even basic equine behaviour and repeat scientifically disproven, ignorant old wives tales to try to justify violence against horses is repugnant. Every incident where people try to justify their violence against horses is always the result of negligent training and exposure to stressful equine situations, and forcing horses well over their emotional threshold, of which most owners are sadly completely ignorant. I have never, ever hit a horse or any animal, 45 years of experience so far, and never will. And I deal with very dangerous situations involving all species of animals, including big cats, giraffes, rhino, in my work as a veterinary professional. The thought of using violence in the situations I've had to deal with, for example, horses in complete fight or flight panic due to extreme terror and pain, who have broken their own legs to try to escape the source of complete terror, and are an extreme threat to the lives of myself and fellow veterinary professionals , is completely , absolutely unjustified. Imagine a vet using violence against a terrified and or dangerous horse they've come to professionally assess. We do not do it, even though we are at extreme risk of injury from the distressed animal,or worse, because we know better. Nobody should resort to violence against horses, or any animal whatsoever and I am deeply ashamed at how so many horse people think, as usual. Threads like these prove that so many horse people really are a separate breed to rational, knowledgeable, aware, humane, empathetic people. Know better. Do better. When you run out of patience with horses, you have to find some more. If your first, or any, reaction is to lash out in violence, you need to set aside your ego, as no animal behaves to personally aggrieve you, you're not that important.... educate yourself in becoming a better, much more rational , more peaceful person, for the sake of any poor animal who has the misfortune to be in your 'care' , for other more enlightened ,humane people who do not want to witness animal abuse, and hitting is abuse as it is completely contradictory, unecessary and unethical . Every person like this now ex teacher, should rightly be made an example of, as there is absolutely no excuse for ever using violence against a horse. If you don't want exposure as an animal abuser, don't abuse animals, it's very simple. Ethics and integrity , how you behave when you think nobody is watching, say so much about a person's character. Finally , if you develop an ethical conscience and behave accordingly, you will be much happier with yourself. You just don't realise it yet.
I will not be responding to anyone attempting to justify any form of violence towards any animal. There is none. Educate yourself if these words outrage your ego.

In a perfect world we would all behave perfectly every moment of our lives.Sadly we are not all perfect.

 

[eahotson]

I think this kind of behaviour towards horses is so normalised by horse communities that people are kinda indoctrinated from a young age into hitting a horse being a solution. Maybe there's also a mental block that if you were to acknowledge that it's bad you'd then have to feel the guilt for having done what you've done.

There is an element of truth to that but some of the real beatings I have seen have been by well known people at large shows.You do see less of it these days because of more phones and YouTube.However giving a horse a slap or even a quick kick is not,in the great scheme of things cruelty.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

This whole thing makes me very uncomfortable on a number of levels.
People saying that they have seen worse in the show ring etc, how does that make this ok..?? If you saw this sort of thing in a show ring or similar would you not report it to show secretarial staff..?? Yes I have slapped a horse that has done something stupid or dangerous, no I have never done what this woman did. Ever.
Should she have lost her job..?? I don't know to be fair. However, if she was the teaching my child I would, personally, be deeply unhappy to allow her to continue to do so. From the school's point of view she behaved in an extremely inappropriate manner whilst engaging in a largely illegal activity (the hunt she was with are well known to behave illegally by all accounts). Unprovoked aggression and law breaking do not reflect well on the school.

 

[ycbm]

.

people saying that they have seen worse in the show ring etc, how does that make this ok..??

Nobody has said it does. That has only been mentioned in the context of proportionality of the punishment.
.

 

[Tiddlypom]

A technicality alert.

A member of the field who knowingly follows an illegally fox hunting pack is not committing an offence. Only the hunt officials can be charged with offences under the Hunting Act 2004. Members of the field, morally complicit though they may be, get off scot free.

 

[ycbm]

whilst engaging in a largely illegal activity

There is no evidence whatsoever that the hunt that day was not a legal trail hunt. If there had been any, then a prosecution of the huntsman/woman would be pending. And it would be them prosecuted, not her. It is not even illegal, ( though I consider it immoral) , to knowingly follow a fox hunt. The only people committing a criminal offence are the people in charge of hunting the hounds.
.

 

[eahotson]

This whole thing makes me very uncomfortable on a number of levels.
People saying that they have seen worse in the show ring etc, how does that make this ok..?? If you saw this sort of thing in a show ring or similar would you not report it to show secretarial staff..?? Yes I have slapped a horse that has done something stupid or dangerous, no I have never done what this woman did. Ever.
Should she have lost her job..?? I don't know to be fair. However, if she was the teaching my child I would, personally, be deeply unhappy to allow her to continue to do so. From the school's point of view she behaved in an extremely inappropriate manner whilst engaging in a largely illegal activity (the hunt she was with are well known to behave illegally by all accounts). Unprovoked aggression and law breaking do not reflect well on the school.

Try reporting it?I did and it got me no where.I did not like what I saw but overall the horse looked to me to be well cared for and that is not true of so many.And again the "Hunt are known to behave illegally " with no proof".There are many ways to be cruel,genuinely cruel to horses sadly.

 

[paddy555]

Gosh, I have stood by and not commented whilst you have pontificated, but I have to say something.

You are saying that she has been assessed as a potential risk against children. I believe that is libel.

It may be that it is simply that the school has decided that she has brought disrepute onto the school. They may not believe she is any risk to children whatsoever.

That is a huge leap, and I simply believe you are wrong to tell people that you have specialist experience in this area, and that she will have been deemed to be a risk to children.

All this and then you accuse PAS of being patronising?

I will report your comment, as I do believe that you, by stating that she has found to be a risk to children, as a fact, is lible.

I also haven't commented but I am totally amazed that people can write 17 pages on a subject that they know absolutely nothing about nor ever will ie should this teacher have been sacked. Unless they have access to all the official papers surrounding her employment and cessation of it in some form they never will do.

The other thing that amazes me even more is that HHO admins allow this. This is simply even more "trial by media"
I am surprised that neither this lady nor any of her friends/associates are on here and have not made this known to her legal team.

Birker I have found some of your comments on this thread particularly offensive. A while ago you said you would rather not post about your new horse when people asked what had gone wrong so soon with him because of the comments you would get. Yet you seem very happy to make comments about someone else who is not here to put their side of the story,

What she did was extremely poor judgement and disgusting behaviour towards the horse. Unless she was successfully prosecuted for cruelty she should not have been sacked. We are very short of teachers and cannot afford to sack them for minor offences in their private lives.

 

[eahotson]

.


Nobody has said it does. That has only been mentioned in the context of proportionality of the punishment.
.

You said it better than me.

 

[Upthecreek]

I also haven't commented but I am totally amazed that people can write 17 pages on a subject that they know absolutely nothing about nor ever will ie should this teacher have been sacked. Unless they have access to all the official papers surrounding her employment and cessation of it in some form they never will do.


What she did was extremely poor judgement and disgusting behaviour towards the horse. Unless she was successfully prosecuted for cruelty she should not have been sacked. We are very short of teachers and cannot afford to sack them for minor offences in their private lives.

You are saying you are amazed that 17 pages have been written on a subject people know nothing about, but then said in your opinion she shouldn’t have been sacked? Presumably you don’t have access to all the official papers surrounding her employment and the disciplinary process? How can you say she should not have been sacked unless she was successfully prosecuted for cruelty? There are plenty of things people can do outside of work that can result in dismissal that are nothing to do with committing a crime and being successfully prosecuted for it.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

The other thing that amazes me even more is that HHO admins allow this. This is simply even more "trial by media"
I am surprised that neither this lady nor any of her friends/associates are on here and have not made this known to her legal team.

This has occurred to me also, I would not be at all surprised if she and or her legal advisors are following this thread, and I will not be at all surprised to see that admin are forced to remove it by her legal advisors at some point of the next few days.

Or maybe she has been advised to allow it to run its course and then cherry pick those comments her lawyers feel worth pursuing. Obviously only surmising my own thoughts but very possible in this litigious society we now live in. ?‍

 

[paddy555]

You are saying you are amazed that 17 pages have been written on a subject people know nothing about, but then said in your opinion she shouldn’t have been sacked? Presumably you don’t have access to all the official papers surrounding her employment and the disciplinary process? How can you say she should not have been sacked unless she was successfully prosecuted for cruelty? There are plenty of things people can do outside of work that can result in dismissal that are nothing to do with committing a crime and being successfully prosecuted for it.

there you go again, round and round in circles getting absolutely no where. Prosecute her for cruelty or don't.

 

[paddy555]

This has occurred to me also, I would not be at all surprised if she and or her legal advisors are following this thread, and I will not be at all surprised to see that admin are forced to remove it by her legal advisors at some point of the next few days.

Or maybe she has been advised to allow it to run its course and then cherry pick those comments her lawyers feel worth pursuing. Obviously only surmising my own thoughts but very possible in this litigious society we now live in. ?‍

no idea if you are correct but I would have thought to some extent HHO were running a risk letting this charade go on.

 

[stormox]

Has there been any public comment from the people involved themselves?

 

[Upthecreek]

there you go again, round and round in circles getting absolutely no where. Prosecute her for cruelty or don't.

What?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Has there been any public comment from the people involved themselves?

There's been a short statement from her employers.

https://www.mowbrayeducation.org/news/?pid=0&nid=1&storyid=167


'Statement From Mowbray Education Trust

I can confirm that Sarah Moulds’ employment with the Trust has been terminated. As a Trust we are committed to ensuring the best standard of education for all of our young people and we look forward to continuing this throughout the 2021/22 academic year and beyond.
Paul Maddox
Chief Operating Officer'

 

[Sandstone1]

There is an element of truth to that but some of the real beatings I have seen have been by well known people at large shows.You do see less of it these days because of more phones and YouTube.However giving a horse a slap or even a quick kick is not,in the great scheme of things cruelty.

That is your opinion.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

There's been a short statement from her employers.

https://www.mowbrayeducation.org/news/?pid=0&nid=1&storyid=167


'Statement From Mowbray Education Trust

I can confirm that Sarah Moulds’ employment with the Trust has been terminated. As a Trust we are committed to ensuring the best standard of education for all of our young people and we look forward to continuing this throughout the 2021/22 academic year and beyond.
Paul Maddox
Chief Operating Officer'

It does not, of course, say terminated by whom. SM may well have resigned.

 

[PurBee]

I'm sorry but no LADO has ever watched a video of someone hitting or kicking a horse and decided that it is a Safeguarding Children issue.

Not even if children are present being made to witness the abuse to an animal?

 

[Tiddlypom]

It does not, of course, say terminated by whom. SM may well have resigned.

It's a rather curt statement, and reading that I'd be very surprised if she wasn't pushed.

 

[AmyMay]

It's a rather curt statement, and reading that I'd be very surprised if she wasn't pushed.

I suspect if she’d left of her own volition the statement would read quite differently.

 

[paddy555]

It's a rather curt statement, and reading that I'd be very surprised if she wasn't pushed.

trial by sm again. You have no idea nor does anyone else and whatever agreement was reached may well remain one of life's mysteries.

sticking to the facts,, not something most people wish to do, it says "terminated" with some waffle in the last sentence.

I looked up "terminated " on google for you and this seems a reasonable definition.


The term termination of employment refers to the end of an employee's work with a company. An employee may be terminated from a job of their own free will or following a decision made by the employer.


as far as this thread goes then that is now "decisions, decisions" did she go as some would like or was she pushed as others would like. What a connundrum.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

It's a rather curt statement, and reading that I'd be very surprised if she wasn't pushed.

It is a short factual statement, which it would not be easy to take to court. I expect that an HR officer wrote it and it was probably agreed by SM's legal representative. The vast majority of teachers are union members and most would have immediately involved their union in getting them out of the situation.

 

[Tiddlypom]

All the news media including the BBC, ITV, the red tops and the less flighty newspapers like the Guardian are reporting that she has been sacked.

If she hasn't been sacked and she instead left voluntarily, she and her team need to get that corrected pronto.

I hope that her union, if she was in one (and almost all teachers are), was both clued up and supportive. Everyone should get a fair hearing.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

All the news media including the BBC, ITV, the red tops and the less flighty newspapers like the Guardian are reporting that she has been sacked.

If she hasn't been sacked and she instead left voluntarily, she and her team need to get that corrected pronto.

I hope that her union, if she was in one (and almost all teachers are), was both clued up and supportive.

Please note, I have *no inside information*

The union position is usually, 'least said, soonest mended' in these cases. There is no need at all for the general public, or indeed the sabs/CP to be given any further information. Any future employer will soon find out what the actual position was.