SACKED

eahotson said:
Well OK but in the great scheme of things, while what she did was definately wrong it wasn't THAT bad. She should have been reprimanded and warned as to her future conduct but sacking her seems a bit OTT unless of course, she was already on a warning for something else and this was just the last straw.
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I would even dispute that level of disciplinary action being appropriate for the 'crime' of hitting a horse outside of work.
 
We have
chocolategirl said:
So if she’d lost her temper and ‘acted out’ as you call it against a child, would that also have been ok because ‘we’ve all done it’ apparently?
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We have all done both from time to time and then felt guilty afterwards and apologized.Who hasn't lost their temper with a child when they have been very worried,tired,ill etc. Hopefully the worst that has happened is that they have shouted a lot.
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
I would even dispute that level of disciplinary action being appropriate for the 'crime' of hitting a horse outside of work.
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Well she did over react a bit and there may well have been children watching who knew her and thought that if "Miss" was doing that it was OK. There may have been other parents who decided not to send their children to that school because of that.
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
I would even dispute that level of disciplinary action being appropriate for the 'crime' of hitting a horse outside of work.
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If this case was taken to court I think it is very likely that her defence would show video of professionals and Olympic athletes beating horses with whips. It's likely she would be found not guilty, but if guilty this would be no more than a very small fine as a penalty.

To lose her job as a result of a hunt saboteur viral social media campaign is out of all proportion to the crime.
 
ycbm said:
Yes she was. If it hadn't been filmed and gone viral it would have been talked about locally for a day or two and forgotten.
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Would this have been the right thing to have happen though? If her employers thought this was a sackable offence surely it was a sackable offense whether she was filmed doing it or not. The only thing filming and posting on social media has done is prevent it being pushed under the rug.
 
smolmaus said:
Would this have been the right thing to have happen though? If her employers thought this was a sackable offence surely it was a sackable offense whether she was filmed doing it or not. The only thing filming and posting on social media has done is prevent it being pushed under the rug.
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I would be 99% certain that she was sacked to "protect the reputation of the school" , ie get it out of the news, and stop the onslaught of demands she be sacked, and not because of the actual offence.


ETA we have a lifetime career teacher and ex head saying on this thread that this offence did not merit summary dismissal.
 
ycbm said:
I would be 99% certain that she was sacked to "protect the reputation of the school" and stop the onslaught of demands she be sacked, and not because of the actual offence.
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That would also have been the case if a parent or children had been present and seen her without a camera. The offense would still be the same, she just loses plausible deniability.
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
ETA, she was not filmed smacking a child. Your example of a nursery worker smacking someone else's child at work is so completely different as to be irrelevant. Under STPCD, employees can be dismissed if they break the law outside of work, hitting a horse is not against the law.
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Oh dear. No its not relevant. But I thought as we were on the subject, people might be interested in an example. And also to try and explain that people who are in a position of trust like the lady who hit the horse, know absolutely that their actions will/could bring about serious repercussions.

She didn't hit a child but the inference is that she 'could/might'. And the level of risk I assume was assessed and found to be unacceptable to allow her to continue in her position.
 
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smolmaus said:
That would also have been the case if a parent or children had been present and seen her without a camera. The offense would still be the same, she just loses plausible deniability.
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The offence was trivial. The penalty is wholly disproportionate.

If we ruin people's livelihoods and careers for slapping a pony what do we do to those who
microwave a kitten
- hang them?
.
 
Birker2020 said:
It would seem that this is more likely.
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how do you know? How do any of us know. I’m still waiting on anyone saying they have never lost their temper.
Birker2020 said:
Oh dear. No its not relevant. But I thought as we were on the subject, people might be interested in an example. And also to try and explain that people who are in a position of trust like the lady who hit the horse, know absolutely that their actions will/could bring about serious repercussions.

She didn't hit a child but the inference is that she 'could'. And the level of risk was assessed and found to be unacceptable to allow her to continue in her position.
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Any parent could hit their child out of frustration. Should all children be removed because of what ‘might’ happen.

Again an poor poor example to use. This has been a knee jerk reaction and I hope this poor teacher takes this to tribunal.
 
ycbm said:
I would be 99% certain that she was sacked to "protect the reputation of the school" , ie get it out of the news, and stop the onslaught of demands she be sacked, and not because of the actual offence.


ETA we have a lifetime career teacher and ex head saying on this thread that this offence did not merit summary dismissal.
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Well I am only a minute taker who sat over 200 meetings for which a good third were about school environments. I can only explain it from my perspective and from my experience gained whilst in that position for nearly two years. I doubt that the

“Unacceptable professional conduct” is misconduct of a serious nature, falling significantly short of the standard of behaviour expected of a teacher.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...r_misconduct-the_prohibition_of_teachers_.pdf
 
Roasted Chestnuts said:
Birker I’ve just ignored you as honestly you have no clue what the hell you are talking about however you still persist in making ridiculous examples. The amount of pure speculation you are spouting off when you know absolutely nothing of this case for fact is quite telling
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I haven't made ridiculous examples, just provided information to give an example of what constitutes a position of trust as a lot of people wouldn't be aware and might be interested. The nursery worker example wasn't relevant to this but then I never said it was. I haven't speculated on anything either.
 
It’s not my style to quote the bible being the atheist I am but I feel very strongly on this case that ‘let those without sin cast the first stone’

what she did was crap, but everyday I see crap that goes on and on. Fat horses being fed towards illness, bad riding, incorrect punishment for the riders fault, punishment for not having put in correct training but that’s all fine. Know better, to do better.
 
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ycbm said:
The offence was trivial. The penalty is wholly disproportionate.

If we ruin people's livelihoods and careers for slapping a pony what do we do to those who
microwave a kitten
- hang them?
.
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The penalty isn't for the general public to decide though. If her employer thought she wasn't worth keeping on as a teacher with this to deal with (safeguarding concerns aside as that is not something I know a lot about) then that is their decision to make. She has every right to take that to a tribunal of course to make sure the reaction was proportionate. Good luck to her I guess.

People have lost their jobs for far less honestly.
 
Birker2020 said:
I haven't made ridiculous examples, just provided information to give an example of what constitutes a position of trust as a lot of people wouldn't be aware and might be interested. The nursery worker example wasn't relevant to this but then I never said it was. I haven't speculated on anything either.
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Well yes you did speculate, that she was already "on a warning" for her conduct
 
I can only guess that there is probably more to this than we the public are aware of. It is entirely possible the school may have on record some other complaints about this woman. This very public display of losing her temper might have been an accumulation of concerns that they already had about her suitability to be in charge of children? ?
 
LEC said:
It’s not my style to quite the bible being the atheist I am but I feel very strongly on this case that ‘let those without sin cast the first stone’

what she did was crap, but everyday I see crap that goes on and on. Fat horses being fed towards illness, bad riding, incorrect punishment for the riders fault, punishment for not having out in correct training but that’s all fine.
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I'm afraid you are missing the point. Read reply 7. Bad riding, fat horses etc do not have the potential and it the word is 'potential' to cause harm to children or young people. The risk was assessed. The decision made. End of.
 
My initial reaction was "shit- I'm a teacher, and I have definitely slapped a pony with an open hand" (usually 0.3 seconds after said pony has taken a chunk out of me).

But, I haven't brought myself to watch the whole video, and it sounds like this was something of a sustained attack, not one slap? Also, the fact that someone thought to film this, and had the time to get their phone ready, makes me think she probably had form for behaving like this, and at least one person had been waiting to catch it on camera?
 
LEC said:
It’s not my style to quite the bible being the atheist I am but I feel very strongly on this case that ‘let those without sin cast the first stone’

what she did was crap, but everyday I see crap that goes on and on. Fat horses being fed towards illness, bad riding, incorrect punishment for the riders fault, punishment for not having out in correct training but that’s all fine.
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Nobody is saying any of that is fine though, that is very straw-man-y. There is enough "oh that's dodgy we should say something so it doesn't continue" to go around for everyone. Holding people to a decent standard isn't a finite resource.
 
Not_so_brave_anymore said:
My initial reaction was "shit- I'm a teacher, and I have definitely slapped a pony with an open hand" (usually 0.3 seconds after said pony has taken a chunk out of me).

But, I haven't brought myself to watch the whole video, and it sounds like this was something of a sustained attack, not one slap? Also, the fact that someone thought to film this, and had the time to get their phone ready, makes me think she probably had form for behaving like this, and at least one person had been waiting to catch it on camera?
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The filming was done by hunt sabs, who having had nothing illegal to film during the hunt, then took to filming people loading to go home.
 
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