saddle and tack trends................do we think the expensive ones are worthy of their hype

[ownedbyaconnie]

Just to poke the hornet's nest again - if it's in a X-wide fit IT'S TOO BL00DY FAT! I'd fetch that down a size fitting, but I think Arabs qualify wide fits, somehow.

Consider the nest well and truly poked.

Sbloom fits my pony so she can correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure my mare is an xw but would you say she was too fat?

 

[sbloom]

Annoyingly I don't have your initial fitting sheet which would say the saddle width but she traces as roughly an extra wide. I've yet to meet a Connie that has a healthy back that's narrower than a wide, and wide's are few and far between!

 

[palo1]

Really interesting thread. I have a M2M Harry Dabbs which wasn't hugely expensive - sorted for me by a very much trusted saddle fitter I have used for years. This for a horse that is genuinely narrow looking but has a wide fitting tree. We definately needed a M2M in order that oiking me around would be more comfortable for both of us. It is brilliant and I am so glad that I took that option. However, I have also had fantastic 2nd hand - thankfully I trust my saddle fitter though I am currently resisting her advice to go for another M2M for my young horse as I simply don't have funds for the £2k that she thinks is best. So we are making do pretty happily with a 2nd hand not 'brilliant' brand of saddle. It is working fine actually - probably because of the very good fitting skills I have access to. Not sure where to go next with that saddle though...It is definately for a wide, flat backed still developing Welshie so there are a number of options, almost all of which will need to be pretty wide fitting even though she is not fat!

 

[sbloom]

almost all of which will need to be pretty wide fitting even though she is not fat!

Are you sure she's not fat . I'd say Welshies are average in the native dept, maybe XW as an average, but they can go up wider than Connies...

 

[SOS]

I agree with those saying that the more expensive saddles to ride in are lovely and make you feel very secure - devoucoux, equipe, butet etc. However I have never owned anything near those prices and certainly would never buy them new. I just happened to work for people who could afford them. How good were they for the horses? I’m unsure and have heard various muses about mono flap XC saddles actually not being great for everyday riding. So 4K is a lot to spend on a saddle you may only ride in a few times a month when galloping or XC schooling.

Bridles I try buy decent leather. I do like Henry James reins but also had a few pairs at a hunting yard that fell apart by mid season. Fairfax bridles and similar are just out of my price range.

I guess my aims for tack are decent leather and that it all fits my horse and is comfortable for me too. My Albion saddles luckily fit me and the horses quite well.

 

[palo1]

Are you sure she's not fat . I'd say Welshies are average in the native dept, maybe XW as an average, but they can go up wider than Connies...

Erm, I really don't know if wide, xw or xxw tbh; I do just tend to look at the profile and talk to my saddle fitter - as my understanding is that width itself is only one element of fitting!! (obviously a pretty important element...). The mare is thankfully not currently fat lol!! I think I have been incredibly lucky over the years with saddle fitting though I have used my current fitter for about 15 years now...

 

[sbloom]

No don't worry, was joshing following some of the contents of this thread (and further letting people know that XW is perfectly normal!).

 

[YorkshireLady]

well I have premium saddles under the terms stated here, due to a very fussy horse i had before...however i wouldn't necessarily go for them and new! Luckily both fit the next horse and they are looking great at 5 and 4 years old. I had had albion and fairfax jump before and would agree that the jump one if where i get a real difference in my position and security. The dressage is lovely but I think I could cope easily with cheaper model.

yes it costs a lot to get them altered but at least i get any repairs and tidying up done at the same time!

I have though also got a made to measure bridle - now that i think truly is worth it - its much neater than anything off the peg and i could have a cavesson how i want it.

Saddles are so personal though - there are other top names i have ridden in and hated and others adore them.

 

[McFluff]

Sometimes you do get what you pay for, and other times you are paying for fashion and brand. It can be difficult to know until too late...

Rugs. For me, Rambo rugs all the way. Any deviations from this has been a waste for me, and always end up sold on.

Bridles. Very mixed experience. Sabre - always good, clean up well, adapt well (as can buy replacement pieces to move to a different horse etc.). Micklem - my experience was good, and I got a good price when I sold it on (lost the horse and new horse didn't like it). PSofS - most I've spent on a bridle and biggest regret. Nice new, but really didn't like how the leather wore (it stretched!) and cleaned up. Sold it on - except the reins as they fell apart!!!

Saddles. I've had good second hand (usually ideal) as a horse has been developing (my saddler advises against M2M until horse is more established). Then had two M2M - one for my mare. An Ideal. Wasn't that expensive (less than £2K, even with fancy choices on my part). Fitter her and me like a glove and got a good few years until sadly she died. Saddle initially OK on new horse, but he changed shape with work. Sold it on easily and got a good price for it. It's now doing well for someone else.
Then after an interim saddle for by new boy we got a M2M. A Bliss. And we both love it. I think it was worth the money, and I couldn't get exactly what I needed second hand. If I was being sensible though, I could have got him an Ideal M2M or a Harry Dabbs (both were suited to him). I just spoiled myself coz I could.
On both I tried different brands and really struggled with the cheaper options. Wintec - too curvy for either (and I fought it all the time), K&M sat oddly on the horse and put me in the chair seat. You don't realise how much a good saddle can help you till you are lucky enough to sit on one that fits both you and your horse.

 

[tallyho!]

I agree with those saying that the more expensive saddles to ride in are lovely and make you feel very secure - devoucoux, equipe, butet etc. However I have never owned anything near those prices and certainly would never buy them new. I just happened to work for people who could afford them. How good were they for the horses? I’m unsure and have heard various muses about mono flap XC saddles actually not being great for everyday riding. So 4K is a lot to spend on a saddle you may only ride in a few times a month when galloping or XC schooling.

I'm glad you've noticed too...

I am of the opinion that the saddle is for the horse first... preservation of the back. Rider position comes from the correct fitting of the saddle to the horses' back.

This article is really useful, and yes it is written by a saddler and no I have no affiliations nor am I familiar with him (her?) - though I liked the article very much. What do other saddlers think?

https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2018/02/27/evolution-saddle-tree-right-job/

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Just get a half tree exercise saddle and chuck some pads under it! Honestly the comfiest thing on the saddle is a well worn in to you leather half tree with a couple of polypads under it! Not sure if you would be allowed to compete in one though ???

 

[milliepops]

i don't think you can fit for either horse or rider "first"
a saddle that fits the horse well but not the rider won't be any better than one that fits the both fairly well. if the rider is dumped in a chair seat by a rubbish saddle design then they won't be loading the saddle in the way that you'd intend anyway, I'd have thought? so even if it theoretically fitted the horse 100% before the rider got on, it's going to be out of balance when in use.

i used to worry about using a close contact equipe all the time but the horse it was made for had less tightness behind the saddle when I swapped to it from another professionally fitted brand, and the horses that inherited it since very rarely have anything for the physio to treat at all... so i guess for some horses it can be absolutely fine and being observant and thoughtful about your horses is the best approach regardless of what kit you buy.

 

[LEC]

Just get a half tree exercise saddle and chuck some pads under it! Honestly the comfiest thing on the saddle is a well worn in to you leather half tree with a couple of polypads under it! Not sure if you would be allowed to compete in one though ???

They all used to do long format 3 days in racing saddles back in the day. The Fairfax evidence on half trees is not compelling though.

 

[sbloom]

I am of the opinion that the saddle is for the horse first... preservation of the back. Rider position comes from the correct fitting of the saddle to the horses' back.

This article is really useful, and yes it is written by a saddler and no I have no affiliations nor am I familiar with him (her?) - though I liked the article very much. What do other saddlers think?

https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2018/02/27/evolution-saddle-tree-right-job/

I'll read when I get a chance, otherwise agreed.

Just get a half tree exercise saddle and chuck some pads under it! Honestly the comfiest thing on the saddle is a well worn in to you leather half tree with a couple of polypads under it! Not sure if you would be allowed to compete in one though ???

I would never recommend that. I know of an amazing dressage yard that rides all young/rehab horses in an XW Wintec 500 and gets away with it, does that mean your average horse owner should do the same? Absolutely not.

i don't think you can fit for either horse or rider "first"
a saddle that fits the horse well but not the rider won't be any better than one that fits the both fairly well. if the rider is dumped in a chair seat by a rubbish saddle design then they won't be loading the saddle in the way that you'd intend anyway, I'd have thought? so even if it theoretically fitted the horse 100% before the rider got on, it's going to be out of balance when in use.

i used to worry about using a close contact equipe all the time but the horse it was made for had less tightness behind the saddle when I swapped to it from another professionally fitted brand, and the horses that inherited it since very rarely have anything for the physio to treat at all... so i guess for some horses it can be absolutely fine and being observant and thoughtful about your horses is the best approach regardless of what kit you buy.

The horse has to come first. We can compromise, and compromise of some kind in saddle fitting is almost always needed, especially if the budget is at ALL limited (not that money solves everything, but it brings more options to the table). We can compensate to a certain extent, but no, no-one's suggesting putting a rider who can't compensate into something absolutely terrible for them. We can cope with maybe a 30% ill fit for us, the horse can't.

And yes, close contacts will work for some, some of the time, but they're recommended in instances when they shouldn't be. And yes, being observant is barely mentioned for horse owners, it's absolutely critical. If you're no good at it (not aimed at you, the general "you") then take photos weekly and start comparing them, it educates the eye,

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I would never recommend that. I know of an amazing dressage yard that rides all young/rehab horses in an XW Wintec 500 and gets away with it, does that mean your average horse owner should do the same? ,Absolutely not

I know I was saying it tongue in cheek. Most racing yards use full tree exercise saddles now. Some fit better than others. I absolutelt loathe the most popular one - it's too narrow at the front, pushes the back down and encourages the rider to sit at the back of the saddle. I also feel very perched on top in one.

I have a synthetic Zilco full tree exercise saddle for work. I know synthetic is a saddle makers worst nightmare but when you ride 5-7 lots a day in a Scottish winter they are a god send!

 

[rara007]

Puts hand up as owner of healthy non fat XWs and also a NM Tbf the NM is very young, she’s not atrophied she’s just still growing.

 

[tallyho!]

i don't think you can fit for either horse or rider "first"
a saddle that fits the horse well but not the rider won't be any better than one that fits the both fairly well. if the rider is dumped in a chair seat by a rubbish saddle design then they won't be loading the saddle in the way that you'd intend anyway, I'd have thought? so even if it theoretically fitted the horse 100% before the rider got on, it's going to be out of balance when in use.

i used to worry about using a close contact equipe all the time but the horse it was made for had less tightness behind the saddle when I swapped to it from another professionally fitted brand, and the horses that inherited it since very rarely have anything for the physio to treat at all... so i guess for some horses it can be absolutely fine and being observant and thoughtful about your horses is the best approach regardless of what kit you buy.

There was a time when I would have argued that the saddle is the cause of the chair seat as I liked Heather Moffet's philosophy for a while, but having watched a few transformations during some clinics by Sally Swift, Mary Wanless, Dorothy Marks and Sylvia Loch over the last couple of decades or so, I was amazed how much influence riders can have on their own bodies when corrected. These riders continued with different body positions in the same saddles with one or two having shims under the saddle where the saddle fit (to the horse) was clearly the problem. Many instances occurred with stirrup lengths, ankle positions and simple bad habits. Quite a few of the horses I remember needed wider saddles because the narrow ones were the cause of poor rider position.

 

[milliepops]

if the stirrup bar is sited inches in front of where your leg actually hangs then i think a rider is forced into a crap position, you can fight the leathers if you are a strong rider but it's really not helpful at all

 

[brighteyes]

No saddle fitter is going to say 'I refuse to fit a saddle to your horse because it is too fat!' Seriously. They are being paid to fit a saddle to your horse. I know farriers who have been replaced simply for saying 'Your horse is too fat, it is at serious risk of developing laminitis.' And worse still, vets unwelcome on yards for presenting bald facts about a horse's weight.

sbloom I'm frankly amazed all your XW+ clients have perfect weight horses.

 

[tallyho!]

if the stirrup bar is sited inches in front of where your leg actually hangs then i think a rider is forced into a crap position, you can fight the leathers if you are a strong rider but it's really not helpful at all

No, I understand that, but how many saddles are truly that bad? I've never come across one single one that has been "inches in front of you". It's not helpful for it to be too close underneath you either. What I have seen are saddles that are too far forward on the horse, whereby the pommel is too high - this in turn alters the angle of the bars which makes them too high in relation to the height of the seatbones - that exerts some impossible angles too. This is also why I think even half an inch in a saddle can make a huge difference to a riders' position. Tiny differences in angles in a person's pelvis/seat has a huge effect further down the leg and also the tensile strength of your rectus abdominis and what that does to your pubic bone also has a huge effect. People rely too much on their saddles.

 

[ycbm]

Back in the 80's every GP saddle i saw had the stirrup bar 2 inches or more in front of where it would cause the leather to hang vertically.

Things have changed a lot since people like Heather Moffat pointed out how that biomechanically ineffective that was.

ETA I've just done a quick Google of pictures and unless people have very big feet there are still plenty around like it.,
.

 

[milliepops]

No, I understand that, but how many saddles are truly that bad? I've never come across one single one that has been "inches in front of you". It's not helpful for it to be too close underneath you either. What I have seen are saddles that are too far forward on the horse, whereby the pommel is too high - this in turn alters the angle of the bars which makes them too high in relation to the height of the seatbones - that exerts some impossible angles too.

I'd bet there are zillions on pegs in tackrooms across the country. Last ones I had direct experience of were old fashioned GPs that were fitted to the horses but which plonked you on your backside with your feet stuck out in front somewhere. Generally Pointless I don't have an issue these days as I rarely ride horses that aren't mine now but I used to ride a lot for other people and some saddles are blooming awful from a rider biomechanics POV. horrid old things that have been lurking around for donkeys years.

 

[tallyho!]

I'd bet there are zillions on pegs in tackrooms across the country. Last ones I had direct experience of were old fashioned GPs that were fitted to the horses but which plonked you on your backside with your feet stuck out in front somewhere. Generally Pointless I don't have an issue these days as I rarely ride horses that aren't mine now but I used to ride a lot for other people and some saddles are blooming awful from a rider biomechanics POV. horrid old things that have been lurking around for donkeys years.

Yes, sadly I think you're right there were some horrid ones made. You still see them on eBay. They generally don't fit any horse.

 

[tallyho!]

Back in the 80's every GP saddle i saw had the stirrup bar 2 inches or more in front of where it would cause the leather to hang vertically.

Things have changed a lot since people like Heather Moffat pointed out how that biomechanically ineffective that was.

ETA I've just done a quick Google of pictures and unless people have very big feet there are still plenty around like it.,
.

Yes I think I remember those... but I've not any for a long time.

 

[skint1]

I've never ridden in an expensive saddle, but I have realised that the saddles I have used most have a reputation for pitching you forward in the saddle but I liked the fact the gullets were adjustable. I haven't actually got a saddle at the moment, I don't know where to start, I am scared of getting it wrong

 

[Green Bean]

For my saddles, I start with my saddle fitter coming with a selection of saddles in my price range. There are usually around 4. He checks them on my horse, and if they fit her, I have a ride in each and then we pick the one that suits us both. I can't imagine doing that with a new saddle which is why I stick to secondhand. I have said no to a couple of saddles before I knew the price, only to find they were expensive brands. Expensive does not always mean comfortable for some reason? my dressage saddle is a Prestige Optimax and I absolutely love it (for me). It was instant when I sat on it after it had passed my horse test and my horse just seemed so much more comfortable with it when I rode her.

 

[bouncing_ball]

Just get a half tree exercise saddle and chuck some pads under it! Honestly the comfiest thing on the saddle is a well worn in to you leather half tree with a couple of polypads under it! Not sure if you would be allowed to compete in one though ???

I thought 1/2 trees weren’t considered very good for their backs?

 

[SO1]

I have never had an expensive saddle or tack. I do have rambo rugs though for durability it works more cost effective as they seem to go on for ever and the fit is good, pony wears them most of the winter.

The more expensive saddles I presume are more expensive because of the materials used and the craftmanship or because they are made to measure. Is it a bit like designer clothes where the more expensive made to measure stuff handmade and using top materials is a lot more expensive than off the shelf high street stuff. The designer items may make you look better, have an element of status involved by using it, fit better and last longer.

I have a cheap saddle company saddle that I have had for almost 10 years now. It is a bit worn in places but does the job but I am not a serious competitive rider. I bought a cheap bridle 13 years ago when I bought my pony and still have it. I do have an expensive (well for me) leather girth that cost £50. The thought of spending 3k on a saddle would be horrifying but that is probably as I am not that rich, but other people probably think the same about the rambo rugs I have why spend £200 on a rug when you can get one for £30.

I do know people who have spent a fortune on saddles and still had problems moving from premium brand to another in attempt to make their horses go better or in an attempt to get a competitive advantage. I do wonder if the saddlers are sometimes taking advantage of their more wealthy customers knowing that they will spend the money or playing on people's emotions saying if you don't get the more expensive option your horse will not be comfortable and will have a bad back making you feel like a bad owner as you can't afford the top range saddles or if you get this expensive saddle you do better in competitions.

Sometimes I feel like a bad owner as I have cheap tack but after what I have seen happen to friends who still seem to have problems despite spending lots of money I don't think I want to go the route of endless saddles purchases in a never ending quest to find the perfect saddle. As they say sometimes perfection can be the enemy of the good.

 

[hollyandivy123]

https://schleese.com/shop/

just wondered if anyone has ridden in one of these................?

 

[Pinkvboots]

No saddle fitter is going to say 'I refuse to fit a saddle to your horse because it is too fat!' Seriously. They are being paid to fit a saddle to your horse. I know farriers who have been replaced simply for saying 'Your horse is too fat, it is at serious risk of developing laminitis.' And worse still, vets unwelcome on yards for presenting bald facts about a horse's weight.

sbloom I'm frankly amazed all your XW+ clients have perfect weight horses.

X wide is not that wide at all I see so many horses being ridden in too narrow saddles all the time, you can actually see the muscle has gone and the back resembles a coat hanger look, I have Arabs and they are both in xx wide it's the sheer size of the rib cage and most have no wither.