Saddles Aaaarghhh Treeless or ridiculously spendy for a young Welshie

[palo1]

So sorry to ask for advice on this but I need help in the form of advice and experience now!! I am at my wits end trying to decide what is best I have a super saddle fitter that has always been able to sort out my horses. I have used her for 15 years and have no problems with her or any of her work at all. I have a young Welsh D mare who is rather fat, 4 y/o and not in much work. I have started her myself and she has been using a lovely wide fitting Humphreys and Swaine saddle that my saddle fitter provided for a horse now sadly deceased. Horse seems happy but has developed some minor muscular soreness and her saddle doesn't fit now; too tight on the shoulders. She is hugely wide in terms of her basic frame, with, of course very little wither.

Saddle fitter has advised several potential ways forward: treeless (of which she doesn't know a lot about but is open and interested), Saddle Company saddle - probably new at around £800 for a wide cob saddle (the shape/tree I need is a special order only so not likey to find one second hand ) I have used SCSs before as interim measures, had them fitted by this saddle fitter and they have worked for my horses but actually I don't like them! I certainly don't want to spend that much on an interim saddle that I don't like. Similar type adjustable saddles - Thorowgoods, K&M are not going to be any better I don't think and are around the same money. We have tried the Ideal H&C cob shaped tree and whilst that might work for my horse, it isn't the best and again is going to be reasonably expensive. The final and the saddle fitters most advised course of action is to go for a really good M2M or bench tweaked saddle that will work with my horse's make and shape but I would be looking at £1500-£1800. This really seems far too much to spend on a saddle for a 4 year old, notwithstanding that her basic skeleton won't change hugely and that adjustments can be made to a degree. Essentially I don't want to spend this much money at this point. I have invested in good, individually tweaked saddles before and know how great they can be but never at such a young age.

I am personally minded to try to find a treeless saddle that I could at least use easily, on other horses and also re-sell. However it would need to be something that I could feel a degree of confidence in over tricky terrain (steep mountains and loads of off road riding here as well as trail hunting) and that I could tackle smaller hunt jumps/fun ride jumps. I have read several old threads/posts here about treeless but still feel clueless!!

Does anyone know anything about the Treefree Tor saddle or Exmoor or Dartmoor models? I would rather have something a little bit traditional if possible but that isn't the most important consideration. What might be an easy, good alternative that won't knacker my young horse??!! I know that there are fabulous saddles available for my sort of horse but they are just too expensive for me at the moment and for her as a 4 year old. Help!! Thank you to anyone who has experience to share or suggestions

 

[Wheels]

I have been using solution treeless on my extra wide connemara for the last couple of years, he is training medium level dressage and we have jumped 1.10 courses in the jump saddle and gone cross country.

There are some good second hand options if you need to keep costs down.

Whilst your saddle fitter might be brilliant I would enlist the help of one of their approved advisors

 

[Marigold4]

I tried all sorts of treed saddles for my 4 year old without any luck. In the end I bought a Solutions treeless. It looks pretty tradional. I tried it on my other horse first - jumping, hacking, schooling - it doesn't slip at all. I'm really pleased with it. You could get their fitter out, see which size and base you need, then find secondhand? It's a big outlay to start with but if you buy secondhand and later sell when your horse has finished growing, you shouldn't lose too much money.

 

[Marigold4]

Ha ha. I see wheels posted almost the same thing while I was typing!

 

[conniegirl]

If you are able to ride in one i would suggest some show saddles or working hunter saddles like most fylde saddles, black country hartley, the Ideal ramsey Or similar, you can pick one up for around £500 second hand and they do seem to fit very wide types. It would get you by whilst she is still growing (and yes she will change enormously between now and 7yrs old) and if you get a good brand you can get your money back when you sell it.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I know of people jumping successfully in Solution Saddles and in HM Flexees. No personal experience though and think I would be happier jumping in a treed saddle..just not sure why as I'm perfectly happy with my treeless otherwise. I have HM vogues and love them but they can be marmite and are expensive new. But I don't jump in them at the moment so can't really comment on how it would be jumping. I wouldnt hesitate to ride over rough terrain in them though. MrPF took The Beast up and down a very steep back in our field in the dressage Vogue just the other day. Beast is round as you like at the moment and saddle didn't move at all.

Plus soooooo comfy.

 

[Trouper]

The Welsh D world must come across this problem all the time?? I think I might try and find a way to sound them out on their experiences.

 

[ester]

From what I see the welsh D world mainly comes up with ideals, flydes and silhouettes as options, though I think partly as there is usually a decent number about 2nd hand.
In some ways I think timing is key, our skinny one could have done with a M2M earlier than we committed to do so. F had the widest saddle our saddler had second hand at the time until he lost some weight, fit and in work he's only a MW.

 

[palo1]

I have been using solution treeless on my extra wide connemara for the last couple of years, he is training medium level dressage and we have jumped 1.10 courses in the jump saddle and gone cross country.

There are some good second hand options if you need to keep costs down.

Whilst your saddle fitter might be brilliant I would enlist the help of one of their approved advisors

I have been looking at the solution treeless saddles and they look good! Expensive to buy but would hopefully last ages ? I cannot for the life of me find any second hand Solutions native saddles but perhaps I am not looking in the right places...I would definately ask a Solutions saddle fitter to help if I was to go down that road.

 

[palo1]

I tried all sorts of treed saddles for my 4 year old without any luck. In the end I bought a Solutions treeless. It looks pretty tradional. I tried it on my other horse first - jumping, hacking, schooling - it doesn't slip at all. I'm really pleased with it. You could get their fitter out, see which size and base you need, then find secondhand? It's a big outlay to start with but if you buy secondhand and later sell when your horse has finished growing, you shouldn't lose too much money.

Yes, I had thought of this option but simply cannot find any secondhand Solutions saddles (preferably the Native saddle type). Is there a secret site for these things?!! Lol.

 

[teddypops]

I had a saddle company cob saddle on my sec d when she was a baby, then I had a local saddler make her one. I have a wide Connemara that hates most things and is very short backed as well as wide, so I’m currently trying out an easy trek GP saddle. We like it so far.

 

[palo1]

From what I see the welsh D world mainly comes up with ideals, flydes and silhouettes as options, though I think partly as there is usually a decent number about 2nd hand.
In some ways I think timing is key, our skinny one could have done with a M2M earlier than we committed to do so. F had the widest saddle our saddler had second hand at the time until he lost some weight, fit and in work he's only a MW.

Yes, you are right. I don't quite know why my saddle fitter feels that none of the ideals, fyldes and silhouettes are not right though I do know that I will need very flat rails and a hugely wide gullet. I have seen some of the trees on my mare and they are definately not worth spending much on!

 

[ester]

I think there is a solutions group on FB for second hand?

 

[Marigold4]

Yes, I had thought of this option but simply cannot find any secondhand Solutions saddles (preferably the Native saddle type). Is there a secret site for these things?!! Lol.

Yes, there is! It's on Facebbook. There are q a few that come up but are snapped up very quickly

Yes, I had thought of this option but simply cannot find any secondhand Solutions saddles (preferably the Native saddle type). Is there a secret site for these things?!! Lol.

yes there is! Join the Unofficial Solutions Saddle group on Facebbook and you will find them there

 

[palo1]

I think there is a solutions group on FB for second hand?

I have found that now! Just not convinced tbh - I have had shimmable saddles in the past and none of them have worked as well as a more traditional flocked saddle. Perhaps I have got the wrong idea though; it's just not clear from the Solutions page that the saddles will need, at times, shimming and I haven't had much luck with that previously! Solutions saddles are hugely expensive new though I guess at least they are very adapatable if you get on with them...

 

[Tiddlypom]

Solutions saddles are hugely expensive new though I guess at least they are very adapatable if you get on with them...

Like Wows, Solutions are marmite saddles. Do a search on here before you think of going down that route - it could save an expensive mistake.

 

[DirectorFury]

My D had over 10 saddles from 4-6 so you're right to not buy something M2M right now!

Obviously they're all individuals but mine is a very typical tabletop, flat back, huge shoulders shape and a Jeffries Falcon Adler (VSD) fitted her really really nicely; probably the best off-the-peg fit we ever had tbf. I eventually caved and got her a M2M at 6 after she outgrew the Jeffries and I love it a lot .

 

[Marigold4]

I think you can't beat a perfectly fitted and flocked treed saddle. But if you have a horse that doesn't suit one of the standard trees or is changing shape then the Solutions saddle is a godsend. Mine has a flatback but a raised and very wide wither. His back is so short that he can only take a 16 in most makes. So finding the Solutions saddle meant I could actually get on and ride him rather than him be a field ornament. I've had the fitter out twice to advise about shims so it does need a bit of expertise to get it right.

 

[Marigold4]

And also probably best to take advice about Solutions saddles from someone who actually owns one or has at least ridden in one

 

[palo1]

Mmm, well I have rung and hopefully will be able to arrange a trial of a Solution saddle soon. No harm in looking to see what they are like after all I guess!! They are one of the only treeless saddles I have found that seem to be good for jumping as well as other stuff...

 

[palo1]

I adore my treed Harry Dabbs that my older horse has and it is brilliant for him but I am not sure about finding a treed saddle for my young horse and certainly not a good one, that will last her. Solutions saddles are REALLY expensive though

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

The Lavinia Mitchell saddles come up really wide I have a size 3 width which is like most xx wide saddles and they go up to a size 6, they are used a lot with shims but can be used without, the shims are mainly used for a remedial fitting to a muscle damaged back.

I also have a Heritage saddle for my flat backed Arab they come up wide and have a really wide gullet, it sits on his back perfectly, Matt at Heritage is very good he can adjust all the saddles and they often have cheaper ex demo saddles to buy.

 

[ester]

people who have had solutions (inc fitting by them) have either raved or don't get on with them at all.

good point PvB LM does fit wide, I went to a demo thingy a few years back with her.

 

[Wheels]

Mmm, well I have rung and hopefully will be able to arrange a trial of a Solution saddle soon. No harm in looking to see what they are like after all I guess!! They are one of the only treeless saddles I have found that seem to be good for jumping as well as other stuff...

Where are you based. I have bought 3 second hand solutions via one of their approved fitters. None of them were advertised. When looking for my dressage saddle the fitter sent me 3 different ones to try. As there are no fitters near me we have done it all via distance fitting using descriptions, photos and videos.

Not all natives need the native base by the way!

 

[Cowpony]

AH Saddles are great for this type - I have two. The first one was new and would normally cost about £1,600 but I have short legs and needed a short flap, so that was extra. The second one I spotted on e-Bay, and although I'd normally never buy a saddle without the saddle fitter recommending it, I knew this had the same tree as my GP and would fit. That one was only about a year old, and was £800. It's worth keeping an eye out for them.

 

[ElleSkywalkingintheair]

Mmm, well I have rung and hopefully will be able to arrange a trial of a Solution saddle soon. No harm in looking to see what they are like after all I guess!! They are one of the only treeless saddles I have found that seem to be good for jumping as well as other stuff...

This is a great idea as not all horses and riders get on with them.

I have a solutions eventer saddle for my traditional cob (who is actually quite sporty and sleek but she is still cob shaped) I found it slips to the side WAY less than tree'd saddle (GFS XCH and Silhouette) is comfier for me, no more back ache and horses back checked every 3 months by a physio is perfectly fine in it I do jump very small in it bit would have no worries at all jumping higher if me and cobbler could

 

[palo1]

Thank you - Solutions fitter is coming to see me with a few saddles early next week. I feel sick at the potential cost tbh and I would be sad to pee off my existing saddle fitter but no point in having a blimming horse if I can't ride her!! There are other options of course so no problem with trying it out. I would be interested to hear more about anyone who has had issues with shimming, movement etc etc. Please feel free to share good and not so good experiences!!

 

[palo1]

Where are you based. I have bought 3 second hand solutions via one of their approved fitters. None of them were advertised. When looking for my dressage saddle the fitter sent me 3 different ones to try. As there are no fitters near me we have done it all via distance fitting using descriptions, photos and videos.

Not all natives need the native base by the way!

I am based in Herefordshire/Welsh borders. The fitter hasn't mentioned possible 2nd hand saddles but it's a possibility of course!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Did you do a search on here about Solution saddles? Please proceed with caution, they do not suit every horse.

 

[palo1]

AH Saddles are great for this type - I have two. The first one was new and would normally cost about £1,600 but I have short legs and needed a short flap, so that was extra. The second one I spotted on e-Bay, and although I'd normally never buy a saddle without the saddle fitter recommending it, I knew this had the same tree as my GP and would fit. That one was only about a year old, and was £800. It's worth keeping an eye out for them.

Yes, they are lovely saddles as are the LM saddles but I don't know how the rails etc would work on my horse - they are not a saddle that my fitter has identified as being suitable (I don't know the reason for that though). If I go for a treed saddle I would probably choose one where I have seen the 'naked' saddle tree on my little mare. I love the Harry Dabbs saddle and also the Adam Ellis Entice whose tree would fit my mare beautifully (at the moment!) but the main reason for NOT choosing a treed saddle is the fact that it would be very expensive if/when my mare changes shape more than anything my saddle fitter can cope with!