Saddles Aaaarghhh Treeless or ridiculously spendy for a young Welshie

[palo1]

From personal experience Solution saddles don't work for every horse and not all problems show up within the two week trial period.

That would be my concern with a different sort of saddle type tbh and then it could be a hugely expensive problem. At this point however I am really uncertain what will suit my mare best. My own preference is for a standard, well made treed saddle as I know and understand them and have had really super well-fitted saddles and happy horses in the past I haven't particularly appreciated saddles that need additional shimming as in my experience it can be really fiddly to get right and getting it wrong results in horses with soreness. However, my mare is very young and as yet I am not sure of what suits her. Current investigations will include Solutions trial (with an open and enquiring mind), AH fitter visit/possible trial/2nd hand AH or similar saddle, Saddle company fitting with my existing fitter with a 2nd hand saddle that can be flogged if not useful and after that well...I guess I would have to think about more complex systems like WOW or something more unorthodox. Thankfully now I do have a variety of possibilities and don't feel so trapped into possibly spending more money than I want or sensibly have available. If all else fails I will ride the dear pony in a sheepskin bareback pad and a daisy chain for a bridle...!!

 

[taraj]

I haven't read all the replies so not sure the recommendations so far!
I have always backed my welsh cobs in a thorowgood cob saddle (not the nicest but always seem to fit) and then have gone onto Ideal H and C saddles or Ideal ramsey show saddles. I have had one in a flyde before but unsure of the model name.

 

[palo1]

Yes, I had hoped an Ideal H and C saddle would work but it really won't.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

What brands have you tried?? I have always been told for the really wide ponies a hooped tree is better, I’ve always had good results with TG saddles I had a really wide Welsh d x Dales and we went through a few gullets and flocking changes but eventually she lost the weight through work and we had more of an easier time
Fitting her. They don’t work for all mind you I don’t think any saddle brand does.

I’m watching this with interest as I have a D two year old so any saddle threads for them I’m keeping an eye on for solutions to future issues I might have. I have kept my T6 that will go up to XXW for backing etc but indications of good saddles for them should this not work long term are what I’m noting down.

Good Luck with your fitting ??

 

[Baccara]

My solutions adviser has just left, and Im really looking forward to giving my saddle a good trial. The horse accepted it immedialty and his stride felt longer and more elevated. This does make it sound as if my Albion fabrenzo didnt fit, but it did according to conventional fitting rules. This horse has always been difficult in many ways and Ive had to think out side thebox with his training and handling. So like many things in life, not everything suits everybody. But Im hoping ive made the right choice.

 

[palo1]

What brands have you tried?? I have always been told for the really wide ponies a hooped tree is better, I’ve always had good results with TG saddles I had a really wide Welsh d x Dales and we went through a few gullets and flocking changes but eventually she lost the weight through work and we had more of an easier time
Fitting her. They don’t work for all mind you I don’t think any saddle brand does.

I’m watching this with interest as I have a D two year old so any saddle threads for them I’m keeping an eye on for solutions to future issues I might have. I have kept my T6 that will go up to XXW for backing etc but indications of good saddles for them should this not work long term are what I’m noting down.

Good Luck with your fitting ??

Thank you! In the past, for wider horses I have used Humphreys and Swain saddles which, when they fit are wonderful, and even, years ago a Bates saddle though long term that wasn't great! I haven't had a wide backed, low withered horse before but I have had a M2M Harry Dabbs for my sportier Arab x Appaloosa. That is now 5 years old and I simply couldn't do better. I would certainly do that again (using a different/more appropriate tree of course) but the problem of a changing horse is definately a real consideration in terms of cost and hassle. With young horses of any shape, my most successful compromise saddle in the last 10 years has been the Saddle Company Saddle; they are adjustable which is great, not hugely expensive, the horses seem to do really well with them....I just don't particularly like them! I have used them on at least 3 young horses that I can remember and never had any problems. (This is making me think I should head in this direction once more actually!). I am eying up a SC Cob saddle second hand atm - just waiting for my fitter to give me the nod and then will have everything crossed that it can work.

I understand that the TG and K&M saddles as well as the Ideal H&C can work really well too for these types/shapes but the Ideal is not very adjustable (if at all) so that would be a punt. I haven't tried a TG or a K&M cob saddle but I have friends who tell me the K&M is more comfortable for the rider. I can put up with a degree of luxury lacking if my horse is happy though. Personally I think the trick is to get through the youthful years (3-5/6) and then invest; that is what I have done before and had no problems at all finding a saddle at that age - or investing in a more expensive solution!

 

[palo1]

My solutions adviser has just left, and Im really looking forward to giving my saddle a good trial. The horse accepted it immedialty and his stride felt longer and more elevated. This does make it sound as if my Albion fabrenzo didnt fit, but it did according to conventional fitting rules. This horse has always been difficult in many ways and Ive had to think out side thebox with his training and handling. So like many things in life, not everything suits everybody. But Im hoping ive made the right choice.

It will be really interesting to see how you get on over the trial period

 

[maya2008]

I have used older Thorowgood pony club saddles and Freeform treeless on flat backed ponies with success.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Thank you! In the past, for wider horses I have used Humphreys and Swain saddles which, when they fit are wonderful, and even, years ago a Bates saddle though long term that wasn't great! I haven't had a wide backed, low withered horse before but I have had a M2M Harry Dabbs for my sportier Arab x Appaloosa. That is now 5 years old and I simply couldn't do better. I would certainly do that again (using a different/more appropriate tree of course) but the problem of a changing horse is definately a real consideration in terms of cost and hassle. With young horses of any shape, my most successful compromise saddle in the last 10 years has been the Saddle Company Saddle; they are adjustable which is great, not hugely expensive, the horses seem to do really well with them....I just don't particularly like them! I have used them on at least 3 young horses that I can remember and never had any problems. (This is making me think I should head in this direction once more actually!). I am eying up a SC Cob saddle second hand atm - just waiting for my fitter to give me the nod and then will have everything crossed that it can work.

I understand that the TG and K&M saddles as well as the Ideal H&C can work really well too for these types/shapes but the Ideal is not very adjustable (if at all) so that would be a punt. I haven't tried a TG or a K&M cob saddle but I have friends who tell me the K&M is more comfortable for the rider. I can put up with a degree of luxury lacking if my horse is happy though. Personally I think the trick is to get through the youthful years (3-5/6) and then invest; that is what I have done before and had no problems at all finding a saddle at that age - or investing in a more expensive solution!

Wow lots of saddles! I have to agree with the K&M saddles being comfy. My ideal would be a K&M for the wee guy as I love them but you never know what you will need ?

I like SC saddles, sat in a few but we just didn’t have someone up here in my area of Scotland handy that could adjust and many standard fitters wouldn’t touch them so an indeterminate waiting tome for an opportunity of a SC fitter for an adjustment just wasn’t feasible when I last bought a saddle ? I think there is someone up here now I’m sure but haven’t needed a new saddle in about 7yrs so wouldn’t say that for sure.

 

[palo1]

Well in the exciting (yawn...) search for a basic saddle for a young cob I have just bought a secondhand SC cob saddle having had advice and clarity from my fitter and the Saddle Company that this is the model that is 'likely' to work. It at least gives me a starting point. I have cancelled/chickened out of the Solutions saddle fitting/trial as there is simply no point finding something wonderful if I can't afford it; I will still have to shell out on something else whilst I save up. That may be something I revisit though of course. If the SC saddle doesn't work AH saddles has kindly provided me with a contact for their local fitter and I will make an appointment with her at that point. So I have got at least 2 steps to go.

Interestingly I hacked out briefly bareback today (well with a sheepy numnah and surcingle - tres H&S conscious of course!!) and my mare walked and trotted out beautifully bless her; it was lovely and that does reassure me that her grim shuffling under saddle atm probably is a saddle rather than a soundness thing. The Christ Lamfelle bareback pad (no stirrups involved ever!) arrives tomorrow so I may use that also whilst we are still searching for cheap young horse saddle nirvana...It may benefit both of us and my son who also tried sheepy numnah riding thinks that this will be a cool thing to have in the tackroom.

Just WHY does finding a saddle have to be so boring and stressful? And potentially ruinously expensive too. Now to dig out whatever I can sell...Thank you so much for all the suggestions and ideas which I can come back to whenever I am back at this point again.

 

[sbloom]

What brands have you tried?? I have always been told for the really wide ponies a hooped tree is better, I’ve always had good results with TG saddles I had a really wide Welsh d x Dales and we went through a few gullets and flocking changes but eventually she lost the weight through work and we had more of an easier time
Fitting her. They don’t work for all mind you I don’t think any saddle brand does.

Bear in mind that the TG/K&M headplates/trees are the very opposite of a hoop tree, they have a pretty narrow head.

 

[DabDab]

Bear in mind that the TG/K&M headplates/trees are the very opposite of a hoop tree, they have a pretty narrow head.

Yep, I stuck one on my connie because my saddle fitter happened to have one in the back of the car when fitting my other horse and it was awful for her shape - lifting up and pinching all over the place

 

[palo1]

Yes and I am prepared to renew/further the search if the SC cob saddle doesn't work. But it is at least a start...

 

[ester]

My ideal has been adjusted to template in the vice, but only the once when flocking wasn't going to be enough (horse fitter/older/prob not quite so much topline as previously).
I'm also pretty sure that from our saddler the M2M was the same price as the off the shelf one (both ideal VSDs)

 

[palo1]

Yes, I dont think there is much difference in price between off the peg and M2M which makes the M2M so tempting I guess. However there can be problems with that and it is a risk to go all out for your 'own' saddle. I don't think I would ordinarily bother tbh. Especially as most saddle makers can easily add a sparkly cantle, purple snakeskin seat or whatever other personalisation takes your fancy!! I do love looking at some of the personal touches that people have.

 

[sbloom]

I always recommend off the peg if you can, several bench made brands' fitters carry the really common models in stock but most are made to order with them carrying demos only. I much prefer fitting from stock - every saddle varies minutely even if made to exactly the same templates etc (I mean cutting templates at the workshop), custom options aren't always what a rider hoped for, in terms of their effect, there may be other minor issues like variations in leather feel or quality...and ultimately if you buy from stock you know 100% what you're getting, you have the saddle there and then and you have much greater legal rights to return including 14 days to change your mind if the fitter comes to your premises ( or rather, you don't go to theirs). You may also get a full ridden trial (ie are allowed to further mark the girth straps, condition it etc without having a wear and tear deduction).

 

[palo1]

Interesting ride in my Lamfelle bareback pad today. It is LOVELY! My mare felt so much freer and I did not find her width or any part of our ride difficult. It was lovely to feel her back muscles working and also lovely to feel her walking out properly rather than being a bit hop, skip, shuffle at times. I was very hesitant to spend so much money on a bit of sheep and know that it is not a long term or full time solution but it is very helpful in providing a bit of a baseline for new saddles. I think too it is a very handy bit of kit to have in the tack room as it will genuinely work on almost anything and Alw had nothing bad to say about it; happily offering trot and even canter. Feeling so much better about riding her in this than the saddle which was clearly not working for her. Onward and upward!! I can think much more clearly about saving up for a decent saddle somehow when I know I have something to work with in the interim. It will be interesting to see what the SC wideseat saddle is like when it arrives...

 

[Baccara]

Just a quick up date on my Solutions Saddle trial. I really enjoy riding in the dressage Pro. Its stable, comfortable and I can feel the horse moving underneath me. The horse is relaxed, more movement in his back and seems to be a lot happier in his work. What I dislike is how crude it is to look at. The top knee roles are fixed with velcro, which dont seem to stick that well, and it (to me) is not very well finished off. The styling is not very sophisticated, compared to, say, an Albion or a Fairfax which are very similiar in price. I know look arnt everthing, and I like the theory in principle, but I think the design needs rethinking. And, for some reason the saddles can be picked up reasonable second hand. Which is something Im considering!

 

[HashRouge]

Interesting ride in my Lamfelle bareback pad today. It is LOVELY! My mare felt so much freer and I did not find her width or any part of our ride difficult. It was lovely to feel her back muscles working and also lovely to feel her walking out properly rather than being a bit hop, skip, shuffle at times. I was very hesitant to spend so much money on a bit of sheep and know that it is not a long term or full time solution but it is very helpful in providing a bit of a baseline for new saddles. I think too it is a very handy bit of kit to have in the tack room as it will genuinely work on almost anything and Alw had nothing bad to say about it; happily offering trot and even canter. Feeling so much better about riding her in this than the saddle which was clearly not working for her. Onward and upward!! I can think much more clearly about saving up for a decent saddle somehow when I know I have something to work with in the interim. It will be interesting to see what the SC wideseat saddle is like when it arrives...

I got a Christ Lamfelle bareback pad about 10 years ago and it was such a good investment. I don't have anything to use it on at the moment but my sister has used it on her Welsh and was using it on her TB over Christmas when she was having trouble with her saddle. It's so handy and so nice to know it is there if we need it!

 

[Marigold4]

Just a quick up date on my Solutions Saddle trial. I really enjoy riding in the dressage Pro. Its stable, comfortable and I can feel the horse moving underneath me. The horse is relaxed, more movement in his back and seems to be a lot happier in his work. What I dislike is how crude it is to look at. The top knee roles are fixed with velcro, which dont seem to stick that well, and it (to me) is not very well finished off. The styling is not very sophisticated, compared to, say, an Albion or a Fairfax which are very similiar in price. I know look arnt everthing, and I like the theory in principle, but I think the design needs rethinking. And, for some reason the saddles can be picked up reasonable second hand. Which is something Im considering!

I agree about the finishing. I bought a new one because I needed it customised, so spent a fortune, but it was the only way to fit my horse. I'm disappointed with the quality, but horse is v comfortable and has been as good as gold to back him, so I'm happy. I think part of the reason they are expensive is because they do the week's trial, so have to have quite a few knocking around for this purpose. I would definitely buy secondhand now you know what you want/need.

 

[palo1]

I got a Christ Lamfelle bareback pad about 10 years ago and it was such a good investment. I don't have anything to use it on at the moment but my sister has used it on her Welsh and was using it on her TB over Christmas when she was having trouble with her saddle. It's so handy and so nice to know it is there if we need it!

Yes, I do think that whichever way I go with saddling I will keep the CL bareback pad. Yesterday we hacked out (with my teenage children...) and happily had w/t/c and a few leaps over some fern etc. It is soooooo good for me/my balance and position that I ought to use it more regularly regardless of the saddle situation. I actually used it with a sheepskin numnah underneath and when I removed it, there was, in fact a completely sweat free channel over the mare's spine and lovely, even sweat marks where the saddle would be. The solutions saddle feedback from @Baccara is really interesting - thank you! I am very reluctant to consider spending that sort of money for a saddle (any saddle!!) so it is helpful to know that quality is perhaps an issue, though in reality fit/comfort is more important.

I also have a Total Contact saddle to try though it will be a week or so before that arrives here. It's a bit difficult to get my head round though I have read plenty around it and will try it with an open mind. I have known a few people use one (and always thought them mad tbh) but now I am in this quandrary I can't see any harm in trying it carefully. I guess the art of that saddle is all in the fitting/padding but I can see why it would work and do understand how it can be used without causing problems.

Finally my SC saddle arrived (2nd hand but in as new condition). It is very nicely made, smart and traditional. It seems to have huge panels but a reasonably wide gullet (wider than my wide fit Humphreys and Swain saddle in any case) and when I sat on it (on my saddle horse) it felt like an absolute boat tbh: huge, sofa like and very 'wallow-y'. It doesn't have a hope of fitting my mare at this point, being far too narrow but my saddle fitter is arriving on Saturday and I will see if she can work her magic with it. I will then be able to compare with the bareback pad which clearly gives lots of freedom of movement, is very comfy but raises questions about suitablility for my mare's back health in anything other than very, very light work, not to mention the slightly alarming prospect of anything fast or 'technical' like jumping -eek!!

The Total Contact saddle is a way out there option for me - I personally think that unless I go for a very specific sort of treeless saddle after a number of potentially expensive trials that this, notwithstanding concerns about the potential back health issues, is a better option than a cheaper sort of treeless saddle that will not allow me to balance effectively for any kind of jumping and may not be great for my mare either. Treeless saddles for very wide ponies seem like such a minefield tbh that I am not ready to go there...

I intend to try the Total Contact saddle with super-top-pressure-distributing padding like the Invictus etc as well as the bareback pad on top for my comfort. It MAY work for both of us and will not be hard to sell on if there are concerns/problems with it. I certainly never thought I would be giving that a go but I have really struggled to find a poor review/experience and I have looked at the Reaseheath College study too, which although quite limited, at least exists!!

I am hoping that one way or another I can find 1 or more solutions for a year or so and then go for something that is worth investing in for the longer term. It seems very odd to me that this shape of horse which is very ancient is so difficult to saddle in the 21st century...!!

 

[sbloom]

There is negative feedback, I have a bodyworker friend who has seen absolute horrors from the use of the TCS, on a yard that seems to use it a lot on many horses, she has seen more than one horse on the yard with the same issues, and has seen the same elsewhere, she hates them with a passion. Proceed with caution as I've heard the odd similar tale.

Section Ds (is that right?) are definitely not the hardest breed to fit if you have the right stock.

 

[palo1]

There is negative feedback, I have a bodyworker friend who has seen absolute horrors from the use of the TCS, on a yard that seems to use it a lot on many horses, she has seen more than one horse on the yard with the same issues, and has seen the same elsewhere, she hates them with a passion. Proceed with caution as I've heard the odd similar tale.

Section Ds (is that right?) are definitely not the hardest breed to fit if you have the right stock.

Thank you for the caution It's a shame that the negative feedback isn't clearly or publicly obvious in relation to TCSs then - it hugely hard to find anything other than happy customers when I have looked I wonder why no-one will say that they have had trouble - it is a rare thing to find something that no-one will publicy decry especially in the equestrian world ...! Yes, a Welsh D and no, she shouldn't be tricky to sort out I don't think; it's just a case of timing and money. It seems pretty clear to me that a decent saddle will be an investment but I have to find an interim solution. Today my physio came over and damn her if she didn't bring her lovely (older) Adam Ellis saddle (after a request from my saddle fitter) and that sat on my mare almost perfectly! It was fabulous and utterly envy inducing. The mare is looking much happier and physio isn't concerned about bareback pad riding but I do think that I will have to try to save up now so riding may be very limited. That is a bit frustrating but I do feel I am getting closer to a long term fix now.