Sale Livery Injury

Pearlsasinger said:
I would expect the livery to have insurance to cover the vet bills but not to cover any loss of value.
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dominobrown said:
Following because this is very similar what is happening to me. Almost exactly same situation, pony in for breaking in, cut leg in field. Owner had seen the field it was in. No idea how it was done. I am in insured though it is taking a while to process. Livery left horse here for 7 weeks after accident and hasn’t paid of dot of livery (about 9 weeks total, as livery before accident wasnt paid), I have paid for bandages etc and did all the bandage changes etc.
Owner wants immeadiate payout. Wants me to buy pony, cob X Trotter or swap pony for one of my horses which are all event horses/ sport horses. I get regular borderline slightly threatening Messages, I.e I am taking one of your horses, you must pay all these vet bills now, I need all the vet bill money and value of the pony etc now, it’s the tone of the messages and the face to face encounters are a bit „threatening“ if that makes sense.
This is why I had decided to sell most of my horses, give up on livery and training horses and I am looking for other jobs. Most of the yard will stand empty and more sheep will graze the land. I am hoping my insurance will cover it, though I don’t think I am negligent in anyway and owner was happy with how the horse was being kept (seen it in field when visiting etc). I am not sure what I could of done other than never turn the horse out.
Not sure how it will resolve, though for those who say the yard should pay how can anyone viably have livery? If a horse gets any injury/ illness and the yard had to pay for everything? Fair enough if I had done something stupid but what about racehorses that do tendon. Does the racing yard buy it/ swap it/ cover all fees?
I do feel for the OP, I don’t know what the answer. Just from the other point of view, all I can say it is very hard, not sure how much I can take tbh, not sure if the outcome is, if any of the „threats“ are carried through what I will do to be honest as mentally I cannot take much more before everything becomes to much and I just end it all.
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That’s an awful situation. I hope you manage to resolve it and it gets less stressful.
 
greenbean10 said:
I'd be far more likely to get another horse if I knew I could get my yard to pay for any accidental injuries!
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Crikey, if I could expect a livery yard owner to pay vets fees, livery fees and loss of value from a simple field accident, I would sell my place and go back to livery!
 
ycbm said:
Yes of course they have a duty of care but to be liable for injury to a horse they have to have breached that duty of care. There's nothing unusual about turning horses out with electric fencing and sadly nothing much unusual in horses hurting themselves on it. Nothing which has been written about this accident suggests that there was any negligence on the part of the yard, and without negligence there is no liability.

With the number of people who think that there is liability on the part of livery yards when there has been no negligence, it's a wonder anyone would run a livery yard at all.
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There is difference between a normal livery yard and a sakes livery arrangement. Liability should be covered in the contract anyway.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
There is difference between a normal livery yard and a sakes livery arrangement. Liability should be covered in the contract anyway.
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What's the difference then? My insurers never stipulated a difference between the horses I had on full livery and those I had on schooling or sales livery, it was covered under custodial liability and any claims would have come down to proving negligence.
 
dominobrown said:
Following because this is very similar what is happening to me. Almost exactly same situation, pony in for breaking in, cut leg in field. Owner had seen the field it was in. No idea how it was done. I am in insured though it is taking a while to process. Livery left horse here for 7 weeks after accident and hasn’t paid of dot of livery (about 9 weeks total, as livery before accident wasnt paid), I have paid for bandages etc and did all the bandage changes etc.
Owner wants immeadiate payout. Wants me to buy pony, cob X Trotter or swap pony for one of my horses which are all event horses/ sport horses. I get regular borderline slightly threatening Messages, I.e I am taking one of your horses, you must pay all these vet bills now, I need all the vet bill money and value of the pony etc now, it’s the tone of the messages and the face to face encounters are a bit „threatening“ if that makes sense.
This is why I had decided to sell most of my horses, give up on livery and training horses and I am looking for other jobs. Most of the yard will stand empty and more sheep will graze the land. I am hoping my insurance will cover it, though I don’t think I am negligent in anyway and owner was happy with how the horse was being kept (seen it in field when visiting etc). I am not sure what I could of done other than never turn the horse out.
Not sure how it will resolve, though for those who say the yard should pay how can anyone viably have livery? If a horse gets any injury/ illness and the yard had to pay for everything? Fair enough if I had done something stupid but what about racehorses that do tendon. Does the racing yard buy it/ swap it/ cover all fees?
I do feel for the OP, I don’t know what the answer. Just from the other point of view, all I can say it is very hard, not sure how much I can take tbh, not sure if the outcome is, if any of the „threats“ are carried through what I will do to be honest as mentally I cannot take much more before everything becomes to much and I just end it all.
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I think you need to tell the police about the threataning behaviour nd get a solicitor involved. Ring the BHS help line.
 
It is absolutely essential that Livery Yards and Sales Livery Yars etc have a formal document which is signed and dated by both parties before the horse arrives so that everyone knows what their obligations and liabilities are.

It should include a term that the horses owner must have a valid insurance cover to cover the costs of any veterinary bill for accidents caused to/by their hors as well as third party liability cover to no less than £20,000,000.

Below is a list of specialist Equine Solicitors should you need one to help you resolve the issues:

Actons
Tel: 0115 91002200 Caroline Bowler

Hannah Salter (Sale and Purchase disputes, Loans, Livery and Facility Hire Agreements)
Waddington Turner Wall Solicitors
Michael Bower Equine Law

Mark Carter
White Bowker Solicitors
Tel: 01962 844440
www.wandb.co.uk
mark.carter@wandb.co.uk

Andrew Dalton
Who is a solicitor and rides a motorbike having been a courier www.adventurebikerider.com

Helen Niebuhr
Darbys Solicitors
52 New Inn Hall Street
Oxford
OX1 2QD
Tel: 01865 811 7000
01865 811712
Fax: 01865 811 777
www.equine-law.net
E: equine@darbys.co.uk

Jaqcui Fulton Equine Law
Tel: 0121 308 5915
jf@equinelawuk.co.uk
www.equinelawuk.co.uk

Hannah Campbell (Specialise in compensation cases)
Tel: 01446 794196 (Specialises in traffic accidents involving horses)
www.horsesolicitor.co.uk
info@horse solicitor

Hanna Campbell
Horse Solicitors
(Took on case in 2013 on behalf of Claire Berry-Jones) involving making a claim Motor Insurers Bureau (MIB)

Deborah Hargreaves
Edmondson Hall Solicitors and Sports Lawyers
25 Exeter Road
Newmarket
Suffolk
CB8 8AR
Tel: 01638 560556
Tel: 01638 564483
E: solicitors@edmondsonhall.com
E: ah@edmondsonhall.com
www.edmondsonhall.com/page/1r6ef/Home/partner.html
Wrote an article on The Legal pitfalls of Buying and Selling Horses

Elizabeth Simpson Senior Solicitor at law firm Andrew M Jackson
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk
enquiries@andrewjackson.co.uk

David Forbes or Belinda Walkinshaw
Pickworths Solicitors
6 Victoria Street
St Albans
Hertfordshire
AL1 3JB
01727 844511

Mark de-villamar Roberts
Langleys Solicitors Equine Law Group
Tel: 01904 683051
E: mark.Roberts@langleys.com
www.equinelawyers.co.uk

Elizabeth Simpson
Senior Solicitor
Andrew Jackson
Yorkshire
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk

Richmond Solicitors
13-15 High Street
Keynsham
Bristol
BS31 1DP
Tel: 0117 986 9555
Fax: 0117 986 8680
enquiries@richmonssolicitorsco.uk

Jacqui Fulton
Giselle Robinson Solicitors

Inderjit Gill
Jacksons Specialist Equine Solicitor
(Represented Gaynor Goodall in an accident on a bridleway on Tameside County Court 01 February 2010).

Knights Solicitors
Tunbridge Wells
Tel: 01892 537311
www.knights-solicitors.co.uk
Work with GRC Commercial Bailiffs
Senior partner very good on equine matters

Horse Solicitor
Tel: 01446 794 196
info@horsesolicitor.co.uk
www.horsesolicitor.com

www.laytons.com

Cathryn Godfrey
Irwin Mitchell
Specialises in Horse Riders injured on the roads

Mary Ann Reay Charles or Chris Shaw
Shaw and Co Solicitors
Equine Law Specialists
Tel: 0800 019 1248
info@shawandco.com
www.shawandco.com

Tozers www.tozers.co.uk

Eleanor Temple Barrister from Kings Chambers in Leeds
Tel: 0113 242 1123
www.kingschambers.com
 
Pearlsasinger said:
There is difference between a normal livery yard and a sakes livery arrangement. Liability should be covered in the contract anyway.
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I have sold two through a sales livery. One was a horse who came and I realised she would not be a fit, I had her 6 days before I shipped her out to sales livery. She wasn't insured (I cancelled before the 14 days) as I knew I wasn't attached and wouldn't do heroic treatment or long term box rest. I trusted the livery owner to take every care, but we discussed what to do if she were injured. In my case, yes to stitching a wound etc, no to colic surgery etc. No way would the owner of the yard have been responsible for the horse having a field accident with no negligence.

The second one was a long term horse, who I had to sell due to life happening with mum's illness. She was fully insured, but still I stipulated no colic surgery. I was selling because I was stressed and couldn't cope, I didn't need more stress.

I can't see how this livery yard would suddenly be responsible for all vets bills, loss of value etc, if they were not negligent in some way?

I had my new boy there for a couple of weeks last year, full livery, while I had some building work done: it was the same arrangement as when I had sales livery, but without the riding and taking to shows. The field turnout arrangements were the same. I examined the field I was offered, accepted it, and with that accepted the risk that my horse may be injured when he went into it. I don't see how this livery is different? It was full livery plus training, plus taking to shows, taking videos/photos, answering phone calls about the advert, arranging to show people the horse, arranging the vet. It cost more, as there was more involved, but the turnout arrangements were the same.

I had stipulated individual turnout, so if they had put him out in a gang and he was injured, then I would have a claim as that would have been negligent as in exposing him to a risk that I had not agreed to and, in fact, had stipulated I was not prepared to take.

OP has stated that they do not believe the yard was negligent. Goodness only knows why people think the YO should pay under those circumstances. Of course it is disappointing, upsetting etc, but it sounds like no one was at fault - unless OP has withheld more pertinent facts?
 
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